Forget all that. Why are the best of the best routinely getting hit by evadable Specials and incapable of dashing back? Lol
Because not everyone is perfect.
Floyd Mayweather, arguably the BEST boxer in the last decade of not more, has been hit a lot. Heck Ali, the king of dodging has had his fair share of punches to the face and body.
I guess right will ignore all perfectly executed flashback intercepts, all the perfectly executed stand up intercepts, all the time they did in fact manage to evade specials. You’ll even ignore @Fintech and his Tigra evades with her evade mechanic. All because it won’t fit what you’re trying to paint.
If you feel they are that bad, play at their level. Play on a public stage, recorded doesn’t matter because even knowing that thousands upon thousands of people will watch you can play games with your nerves.
If you don’t play perfect 100% of the time you have no room to call them out on that.
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Not necessarily, cos remember there are 3 factors: Your health, Opponent's health, Time.
With suicides with each special you lose 5% of your health, so your health will be going down more if you run suicide compared to the other player, but you'll be finishing fights faster.
Player A : Deals 10 % health in 20 seconds and instantly dies.
Player B : deals 10% health in 18 seconds, but does not die for another 2 minute but only manages to do 1% more health due to nodes
Who should win by applying the slightest amount of logic? With Kabams scoring, Player A wins
Yeah and so he should.
What's player B doing standing around for 2 more minutes and only taking 1% health?
What's Player A supposed to do? He's got wives and kids to feed, he doesn't have time to be waiting and waiting.
Moreover it's 2min + + in real time due to loading time, plus if Play B is using an Android Phone it's gonna take longer. It could ended up being more like a 4-5 minutes wait.
Player A : Deals 10 % health in 20 seconds and instantly dies.
Player B : deals 10% health in 18 seconds, but does not die for another 2 minute but only manages to do 1% more health due to nodes
Who should win by applying the slightest amount of logic? With Kabams scoring, Player A wins
Yeah and so he should.
What's player B doing standing around for 2 more minutes and only taking 1% health?
What's Player A supposed to do? He's got wives and kids to feed, he doesn't have time to be waiting and waiting.
Moreover it's 2min + + in real time due to loading time, plus if Play B is using an Android Phone it's gonna take longer. It could ended up being more like a 4-5 minutes wait.
After reading this , I have only one thing to say.
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Judging from the way showdown scoring was done, Damage WAS utility. Don't bait or bother with power control, do max damage and die
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Yes Yes Yes, at last a comment that makes sense!!!
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Judging from the way showdown scoring was done, Damage WAS utility. Don't bait or bother with power control, do max damage and die
Considering the most effective attackers in the whole thing were the two Visions, yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here that DPS was the most important thing or even a very important one
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Judging from the way showdown scoring was done, Damage WAS utility. Don't bait or bother with power control, do max damage and die
Considering the most effective attackers in the whole thing were the two Visions, yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here that DPS was the most important thing or even a very important one
True. But that was for the K.O and with highly skilled players. With the regular MCoC playerbase, damage will be utility if both are going to die without K.O unless scoring is changed.
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Judging from the way showdown scoring was done, Damage WAS utility. Don't bait or bother with power control, do max damage and die
Considering the most effective attackers in the whole thing were the two Visions, yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here that DPS was the most important thing or even a very important one
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Judging from the way showdown scoring was done, Damage WAS utility. Don't bait or bother with power control, do max damage and die
Considering the most effective attackers in the whole thing were the two Visions, yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here that DPS was the most important thing or even a very important one
True. But that was for the K.O and with highly skilled players. With the regular MCoC playerbase, damage will be utility if both are going to die without K.O unless scoring is changed.
Scoring absolutely should be changed. Never argued against that at all. All I said is that suicide users will have a significant disadvantage bc their defenders will also have them and I fully expect a whole lot of crying about that fact in the future which will be hilarious.
The whole damage or utility thing is going to greatly depend on the nodes. If the nodes are super punishing then utility is going to be the way to go. Otherwise, if the nodes aren’t too bad, you might be able to get away with high DPS champs.
Player A : Deals 10 % health in 20 seconds and instantly dies.
Player B : deals 10% health in 18 seconds, but does not die for another 2 minute but only manages to do 1% more health due to nodes
Who should win by applying the slightest amount of logic? With Kabams scoring, Player A wins
Yeah and so he should.
What's player B doing standing around for 2 more minutes and only taking 1% health?
What's Player A supposed to do? He's got wives and kids to feed, he doesn't have time to be waiting and waiting.
Moreover it's 2min + + in real time due to loading time, plus if Play B is using an Android Phone it's gonna take longer. It could ended up being more like a 4-5 minutes wait.
Ok, so I couldn’t really work out how to give an hypothetical example that would show you how absolutely ridiculous your point of view is that time is an important factor when neither player KO’s the opponent.
So I decided to find a real, data driven answer. And then ask you to try and standby your point.
I went through a few of the semi finals noting down times and points for the time, and I went through and noted down health remaining and points for remaining health. It turned out that for each percentage of health you take off, you get around 150 points. So 100% health taken off is 15000 points.
And when you start the fight you have 4860 points, and for every second in the fight, you lose 22 points. So 180 seconds (or 3 mins aka a time out), you get 0 points.
I’m going to ignore remaining health of attacker, since we are exclusively talking about when the attacker gets KOd. That should only come into affect on time outs and when the defender is KOd.
So how do I show you that this scoring system is a backwards system with backwards logic?
I’ll take it to both extremes. We will have player A, who plays genuinely terribly. He misses his first parry, gets combo’d within half a second of the fight starting and dies. He took 0 health from the opponent, he did nothing noteworthy at all, couldn’t even get his first parry in. But because his fight was short, he got 4833 points.
What exactly do you think player A did that was good enough to deserve 4833 points? Because in my opinion, I think he has about 4833 points too many. Remember that the max amount of points we saw in the showdown was around 19000, so player A got about a quarter of the top skilled score by dying immediately. You could give a baby a phone and they’d have a similar performance.
So let’s move onto player B. Let’s say they timed out, so they got 0 time score. They put in a shift, they played excellently and battled out the fight, but unfortunately it just wasn’t enough to get them down in the end. But they managed to put a dent into the opponent.
Do you know how much health that Player B can take off the opponent and still lose? As in, how much of the opponents health can remain, but it’s not enough points to overcome player A’s massive chunk of points from dying immediately?
Player B can take the opponent down to 68%, but that’s still only a score of 4800. Meaning player A has won by 33 points.
Player B played better, took over nearly a third of the opponent down, took more health off and managed to survive the whole time in a really tough fight. They used strategy, they used skill and they battled out in a fight where maybe there was a ton of willpower, or buffet or any combination of nodes.
But player A won because they missed their first parry.
What sort of skill is that inspiring? What sort of gameplay is that rewarding? You compared it to a running race but this is nothing like that. A race is simply based on time, we have other factors too in MCOC. It would be like a 100 metre race but the contestants had to eat a pie while running, and also get dressed at the same time. You’re judged on how many items of clothing you put on, and how much of the pie you dropped. Maybe then, your example would hold any weight at all.
And do you know what? If I was player A in a world-wide competition and I made it through because of a backwards scoring method, I would write a message to player B apologising from the bottom of my heart that they got kicked out because of a technicality with an illogical scoring system. I would feel guilt for myself, for having made it through when I knew that I hadn’t done anything of worth, I knew that I had just missed a parry and died straight away. I didn’t deserve any points for that.
But please, go ahead and bring up “loading times” and “car wheels” and try and persuade us that they have any bearing on who is more skilled in this scenario. Because that’s what this should judge.
As many have said before, time should only play a part if you KO the opponent. Then it still incentivises someone to try and KO quickly in case your challenger in the tournament also KO’s theirs. So stop going on about your loading times, nobody is going to try and be slower, it is promoting skilled play. Not dying quickly. If you can’t deal with long waiting times, stay away from this, incursions, war and AQ and go play some questing. Sometimes waiting for someone else is going to be a part of it, and that’s something you have to deal with when live gameplay is happening.
How the scoring should work:
Defender remaining health: always scored Attacker remaining health: always scored Time elapsed: only scored if defender is KOd
Otherwise, we have bonkers situations like this, where someone can die immediately and beat someone who has taken 32% of the opponent down.
If I see my opponent time out on 70%, I can literally think oh wow, I know that if I die within the first 10 seconds I have beaten him. Why should I try and beat his health score, I might still lose. I’m gonna guarantee myself the win by dying immediately. What sort of contest is that?
If you still think this is a good system, I’d advise you to really rethink what you want to prioritise in competitive game modes. And I’ll make no apology for not respecting that opinion, because it is categorically wrong.
I don’t want to edit the above post, since it may well go to the abyss of approval, but this section “when you start the fight you have 4860 points, and for every second in the fight, you lose 22 points” should be 27 points, not 22. Had a little moment while typing it up.
I don’t want to edit the above post, since it may well go to the abyss of approval, but this section “when you start the fight you have 4860 points, and for every second in the fight, you lose 22 points” should be 27 points, not 22. Had a little moment while typing it up.
The emotional buildup is very visible in the write-up
Terrible take by the op. The game mode should have time as a factor but not a deciding one unless both players gain a knockout. When there were no knockouts the point multiplier that was given to duration of fight was prosperous and ridiculous in comparison to defender health remaining.
In any game, if you are going to play a competitve game mode, you are commiting that you have the time necessary for it, if it ends early, good for you. But you don't hit the matchmaking button unless you have sufficient time.
And everyone in Summoner Showdown committed to the tournament knowing time would be a factor.
The rules actually did say that time would only be counted if the defender was KOd.
Wow really? Where does it say that? I missed that. I thought time counted for all matches.
It’s in the rules document all of the contestants were sent.
Wait... what???
But in all the matches we watched Time had a significant impact on ALL matches.
That's head scratchingly weird then.
Every post you’ve made so far in this thread is head scratchingly weird
I am more concerned if this game mode is only for suicide players. I don't run suicides, should I even bother playing it if I am at such disadvantage? There should be an option to ban suicides to level the playing field.
Suicide users will actually have a massive disadvantage. Their defenders will also have them which makes them MUCH easier to kill. I'm actually quite happy that all the dAmAgE iS uTiLiTy stans will have yet another detrimental situation from them.
Judging from the way showdown scoring was done, Damage WAS utility. Don't bait or bother with power control, do max damage and die
Considering the most effective attackers in the whole thing were the two Visions, yeah I'm gonna go ahead and disagree here that DPS was the most important thing or even a very important one
True. But that was for the K.O and with highly skilled players. With the regular MCoC playerbase, damage will be utility if both are going to die without K.O unless scoring is changed.
Scoring absolutely should be changed. Never argued against that at all. All I said is that suicide users will have a significant disadvantage bc their defenders will also have them and I fully expect a whole lot of crying about that fact in the future which will be hilarious.
Oh I agree. It's like war if you don't remove for placement. Boost on attack, suffer on defense.
Comments
Player B : deals 10% health in 18 seconds, but does not die for another 2 minute but only manages to do 1% more health due to nodes
Who should win by applying the slightest amount of logic? With Kabams scoring, Player A wins
With suicides with each special you lose 5% of your health, so your health will be going down more if you run suicide compared to the other player, but you'll be finishing fights faster.
It's a fascinating calculation.
You should become a poet.
What's player B doing standing around for 2 more minutes and only taking 1% health?
What's Player A supposed to do? He's got wives and kids to feed, he doesn't have time to be waiting and waiting.
Moreover it's 2min + + in real time due to loading time, plus if Play B is using an Android Phone it's gonna take longer. It could ended up being more like a 4-5 minutes wait.
So I decided to find a real, data driven answer. And then ask you to try and standby your point.
I went through a few of the semi finals noting down times and points for the time, and I went through and noted down health remaining and points for remaining health. It turned out that for each percentage of health you take off, you get around 150 points. So 100% health taken off is 15000 points.
And when you start the fight you have 4860 points, and for every second in the fight, you lose 22 points. So 180 seconds (or 3 mins aka a time out), you get 0 points.
I’m going to ignore remaining health of attacker, since we are exclusively talking about when the attacker gets KOd. That should only come into affect on time outs and when the defender is KOd.
So how do I show you that this scoring system is a backwards system with backwards logic?
I’ll take it to both extremes. We will have player A, who plays genuinely terribly. He misses his first parry, gets combo’d within half a second of the fight starting and dies. He took 0 health from the opponent, he did nothing noteworthy at all, couldn’t even get his first parry in. But because his fight was short, he got 4833 points.
What exactly do you think player A did that was good enough to deserve 4833 points? Because in my opinion, I think he has about 4833 points too many. Remember that the max amount of points we saw in the showdown was around 19000, so player A got about a quarter of the top skilled score by dying immediately. You could give a baby a phone and they’d have a similar performance.
So let’s move onto player B. Let’s say they timed out, so they got 0 time score. They put in a shift, they played excellently and battled out the fight, but unfortunately it just wasn’t enough to get them down in the end. But they managed to put a dent into the opponent.
Do you know how much health that Player B can take off the opponent and still lose? As in, how much of the opponents health can remain, but it’s not enough points to overcome player A’s massive chunk of points from dying immediately?
Player B can take the opponent down to 68%, but that’s still only a score of 4800. Meaning player A has won by 33 points.
Player B played better, took over nearly a third of the opponent down, took more health off and managed to survive the whole time in a really tough fight. They used strategy, they used skill and they battled out in a fight where maybe there was a ton of willpower, or buffet or any combination of nodes.
But player A won because they missed their first parry.
What sort of skill is that inspiring? What sort of gameplay is that rewarding? You compared it to a running race but this is nothing like that. A race is simply based on time, we have other factors too in MCOC. It would be like a 100 metre race but the contestants had to eat a pie while running, and also get dressed at the same time. You’re judged on how many items of clothing you put on, and how much of the pie you dropped. Maybe then, your example would hold any weight at all.
And do you know what? If I was player A in a world-wide competition and I made it through because of a backwards scoring method, I would write a message to player B apologising from the bottom of my heart that they got kicked out because of a technicality with an illogical scoring system. I would feel guilt for myself, for having made it through when I knew that I hadn’t done anything of worth, I knew that I had just missed a parry and died straight away. I didn’t deserve any points for that.
But please, go ahead and bring up “loading times” and “car wheels” and try and persuade us that they have any bearing on who is more skilled in this scenario. Because that’s what this should judge.
As many have said before, time should only play a part if you KO the opponent. Then it still incentivises someone to try and KO quickly in case your challenger in the tournament also KO’s theirs. So stop going on about your loading times, nobody is going to try and be slower, it is promoting skilled play. Not dying quickly. If you can’t deal with long waiting times, stay away from this, incursions, war and AQ and go play some questing. Sometimes waiting for someone else is going to be a part of it, and that’s something you have to deal with when live gameplay is happening.
How the scoring should work:
Defender remaining health: always scored
Attacker remaining health: always scored
Time elapsed: only scored if defender is KOd
Otherwise, we have bonkers situations like this, where someone can die immediately and beat someone who has taken 32% of the opponent down.
If I see my opponent time out on 70%, I can literally think oh wow, I know that if I die within the first 10 seconds I have beaten him. Why should I try and beat his health score, I might still lose. I’m gonna guarantee myself the win by dying immediately. What sort of contest is that?
If you still think this is a good system, I’d advise you to really rethink what you want to prioritise in competitive game modes. And I’ll make no apology for not respecting that opinion, because it is categorically wrong.
For anyone to think the scoring was ok is actually quite depressing. Kabaam might think scoring wasn’t actually that bad when indeed it was.