I think the new system is fine as it'll change as time goes on. Like an alliance quest season.
However there needs to be a metric that accounts for the strength and strategy of your defense. They used defender kills for this before and I've yet to see a better system yet.
I think the new system is fine as it'll change as time goes on. Like an alliance quest season.
However there needs to be a metric that accounts for the strength and strategy of your defense. They used defender kills for this before and I've yet to see a better system yet.
Could you share the 4l0ki story with thew new system? I think it's the most glaring and obvious reason why changes are needed personally. Looking to give all info to everyone on this.
Bring Back the Old AW, Scrap the New Map and System
I just want diversity out of here man.
Let it be decided by percentage and defender kills, like a war should be decided.
Doesn't make sense to have defender rating be a factor or diversity.
They should just make it so percentage, defender kills and maybe offense kills be the way to win, it's more skill based that way and has less unfair wins.
Not all of us want to r5 our beautiful luke cages and kamala khans for a forced point system.
Look, what I'm basically wanting here is:
1. Percentage gives your points
2. Defender kills come back and give you points
3. Maybe let offense kills give points
4. Make diversity a synergy(like a physical resistance and crit rate synergy, all kinds of synergies based on the champs basically)or just take it out honestly.
I'd take mystic wars back anyway, took skill. Felt challenging and it let me rank anyone I wanted without worrying if someone else has the same r5 or if I placed the same champ(before someone says you still can rank whoever for defense, nah diversity is forced at higher tiers.) That is not a war.
Leave the New System / Map in Place, Leave Scoring System in Place, Add in Defender Kills
Given the choices listed, I voted to keep the current system and add defender kills back. I don't specifically think that's the best possible option, but of the listed options I think that one has the best chance of evolving on its own into a viable system.
The nodes are, I think, too hard. But the devs can datamine that and tweak them over time. The map itself is okay. Even diversity points aren't fatal. What they need to be palatable is a counterbalance which defender kills provides. With defender kills defenses aren't dictated, but have to be balanced against the potential to generate kills.
I've posted my opinions on how defender kills aren't the only way to do that and there are compromise options that exist which balance the need to judge good offense against Kabam's desire to encourage attacking when players still have left be players. I won't repeat them here because my thoughts are in the main thread and because I'm currently posting from my phone while waiting for a typhoon to hit my hotel in Tokyo.
The most amazing mportant thing is not to get a perfect AW. It is to get a system that can evolve over time with tweaking. For reasons I've discussed at length, I don't think the current system is such a system. It needs to be "kicked" into one that can then be tweaked to be better. Of the options listed I voted for the one I think delivers the best "kick" not the best permanent system.
Leave the New System / Map in Place, Leave Scoring System in Place, Add in Defender Kills
I wanted to vote for, "Start over from scratch," but that wasn't an option.
Maybe just change up AW every month. Make it a monthly map with new nodes and new paths.
That would keep AW fresh, and minimize damage to the player base when a BS AW system is in place. We could at least rest in the assurance that the next month would bring something new.
Leave the New System / Map in Place, Leave Scoring System in Place, Add in Defender Kills
We’re not in a high tier currently but have had experiences in tier 5 or 6 I think was the best we got to. Currently tiers 8-10 aiming for 7. I personally don’t mind the new map anymore, at first I didn’t like the portals but it’s grown on me. I would love to see the old map reappear too though, so they could alternate the maps and change things up. Could be weekly, daily, random, whatever works. I want defender kill points to return because it was rewarding to the more skilful attackers. For example, I’ve fought many wars where we might take a boss down with 0-5 deaths at most, whilst our opponent has died over 20 times. When our exploration was close we took the win because we fought better and I think that’s fair regardless of whether we’re on the winning or losing side. Now if I’m fighting a tough boss and make a mistake I can just revive and carry on anyway. Takes away from the fun because there’s no risk involved, it’s just carry on until you either run out of items or use all 15 (never done this myself but it does happen). It’s disappointing to see our defenders have so many kills but we still lose due to both sides having relatively equal exploration and the same number of boss kills. If defender kill points came back I’d be happy with AW again and it would continue to be my favourite part of the game. The only other issue I have is in the tier we occasionally drop down to you can see exactly what every champ is and none of the mini bosses are linked to the main boss. I don’t think you should see the minibosses in any tier either, not even the class. Used to leave a few surprises on defence that could be very effective, hard to do that now because you can see so much info.
Up to 38 votes less than 2 hours in.. keep it up guys! Hopefully they will be watching.
With the new nodes there are like 5+ unblockable L2s, 2-4 unblockable L1s, 2-4 stun immunes then all the Bane, Spite and other nodes. With those nodes and defender kills people would just load up on god tier defenders and it'll be miserable.
the point of keeping both diversity and defender kills is exactly for that. Ally's would have to choose between diversity / rating and kills. Would force a lot more strategy / skill over pure ally rating.
This. I'm for anything that encourages more strategy.
I wanted to vote for, "Start over from scratch," but that wasn't an option.
Maybe just change up AW every month. Make it a monthly map with new nodes and new paths.
That would keep AW fresh, and minimize damage to the player base when a BS AW system is in place. We could at least rest in the assurance that the next month would bring something new.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
I'm not promoting anything but getting people to express their opinions. I want as many voices as possible, with as many opinions as possible.. a real view of how the community feels.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
I'm not promoting anything but getting people to express their opinions. I want as many voices as possible, with as many opinions as possible.. a real view of how the community feels.
For yourself, or the Dev Team? That's my point. We have a Thread for the War Discussion. I've noticed you asking people to vote on other Threads and you keep pointing out the opinions. Listen, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. I'm pointing out the fact that it's teetering on a petition. Do what you like. I'm just saying it's pretty apparent.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
I'm not promoting anything but getting people to express their opinions. I want as many voices as possible, with as many opinions as possible.. a real view of how the community feels.
For yourself, or the Dev Team? That's my point. We have a Thread for the War Discussion. I've noticed you asking people to vote on other Threads and you keep pointing out the opinions. Listen, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. I'm pointing out the fact that it's teetering on a petition. Do what you like. I'm just saying it's pretty apparent.
the goal is to make this a thread for people to show their view in word and vote... to give a real view of the communities opinions. The poll was designed to give the most diverse opinions I could think of for that exact reason.
Also...I am trying to get people to vote in many ways not just in other threads. I have had youtubers talk about it in streams, yeetos tweeted it out for me, and others have blasted it on line. Hoping its a success.... 1 thread with thousands of replies bottle necks the discussion (neither of us are reading 1000 replies lol) the poll shows the opinions in one neat package.
Leave the New System / Map in Place, Leave Scoring System in Place, Add in Defender Kills
Diversity would be improved if old champs got updated abilities, honestly it’s badly overdue, atleast half the champs serving no meaningful purpose for attack or defence and everyone should provide value somewhere. No question the game would be better with a wider range of champs and abilities/counters.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
I'm not promoting anything but getting people to express their opinions. I want as many voices as possible, with as many opinions as possible.. a real view of how the community feels.
For yourself, or the Dev Team? That's my point. We have a Thread for the War Discussion. I've noticed you asking people to vote on other Threads and you keep pointing out the opinions. Listen, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. I'm pointing out the fact that it's teetering on a petition. Do what you like. I'm just saying it's pretty apparent.
the goal is to make this a thread for people to show their view in word and vote... to give a real view of the communities opinions. The poll was designed to give the most diverse opinions I could think of for that exact reason.
Also...I am trying to get people to vote in many ways not just in other threads. I have had youtubers talk about it in streams, yeetos tweeted it out for me, and others have blasted it on line. Hoping its a success.... 1 thread with thousands of replies bottle necks the discussion (neither of us are reading 1000 replies lol) the poll shows the opinions in one neat package.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
I'm not promoting anything but getting people to express their opinions. I want as many voices as possible, with as many opinions as possible.. a real view of how the community feels.
For yourself, or the Dev Team? That's my point. We have a Thread for the War Discussion. I've noticed you asking people to vote on other Threads and you keep pointing out the opinions. Listen, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. I'm pointing out the fact that it's teetering on a petition. Do what you like. I'm just saying it's pretty apparent.
the goal is to make this a thread for people to show their view in word and vote... to give a real view of the communities opinions. The poll was designed to give the most diverse opinions I could think of for that exact reason.
Also...I am trying to get people to vote in many ways not just in other threads. I have had youtubers talk about it in streams, yeetos tweeted it out for me, and others have blasted it on line. Hoping its a success.... 1 thread with thousands of replies bottle necks the discussion (neither of us are reading 1000 replies lol) the poll shows the opinions in one neat package.
Listen bud, I like what you're doing for the community rn with this thread. But like it was said before, resist. It's not worth the risk by responding lol.
Scrap Defender Rating as a Point Value, Replace with Defender Kills
I think war would be just fine with these 3 adjustments:
-Diversity stays but goes back to 150 points
-Defender rating goes (really, it doesn't belong in a measurement of skill, if anything the lower rated team has harder fights with weaker tools, insane to punish them when they already must do more with less)
-Defensive kills return at 50 points per
This would ensure maps where champs aren't repeated, but are placed for their ability to defend over their ability to have high PI. It also brings skill back into it (who can clear a map dying the least, who can place the right defenders on the optimal nodes to maximize kills, etc).
Anything short of this and war will continue to be broken.
Leave the New System / Map in Place, Leave Scoring System in Place, Add in Defender Kills
Just curious.. would people be more ok with defender rating if it was based on prestige and not PI? I believe a combination of rating / def kills would force a very interesting perpetration debate in ally's
Bring Back the Old AW, Scrap the New Map and System
I feel like the new map requires much less skill. The other problem is that many people spent many resources on defensive champs and now without defender points and with the diversity points, ranking those champs were for nothing. I understand that you don’t want 10 NCs in a row, but what’s the point in “defending” when you can’t use your best defensive champs
Comments
I think the new system is fine as it'll change as time goes on. Like an alliance quest season.
However there needs to be a metric that accounts for the strength and strategy of your defense. They used defender kills for this before and I've yet to see a better system yet.
Could you share the 4l0ki story with thew new system? I think it's the most glaring and obvious reason why changes are needed personally. Looking to give all info to everyone on this.
Let it be decided by percentage and defender kills, like a war should be decided.
Doesn't make sense to have defender rating be a factor or diversity.
They should just make it so percentage, defender kills and maybe offense kills be the way to win, it's more skill based that way and has less unfair wins.
Not all of us want to r5 our beautiful luke cages and kamala khans for a forced point system.
Look, what I'm basically wanting here is:
1. Percentage gives your points
2. Defender kills come back and give you points
3. Maybe let offense kills give points
4. Make diversity a synergy(like a physical resistance and crit rate synergy, all kinds of synergies based on the champs basically)or just take it out honestly.
I'd take mystic wars back anyway, took skill. Felt challenging and it let me rank anyone I wanted without worrying if someone else has the same r5 or if I placed the same champ(before someone says you still can rank whoever for defense, nah diversity is forced at higher tiers.) That is not a war.
The nodes are, I think, too hard. But the devs can datamine that and tweak them over time. The map itself is okay. Even diversity points aren't fatal. What they need to be palatable is a counterbalance which defender kills provides. With defender kills defenses aren't dictated, but have to be balanced against the potential to generate kills.
I've posted my opinions on how defender kills aren't the only way to do that and there are compromise options that exist which balance the need to judge good offense against Kabam's desire to encourage attacking when players still have left be players. I won't repeat them here because my thoughts are in the main thread and because I'm currently posting from my phone while waiting for a typhoon to hit my hotel in Tokyo.
The most amazing mportant thing is not to get a perfect AW. It is to get a system that can evolve over time with tweaking. For reasons I've discussed at length, I don't think the current system is such a system. It needs to be "kicked" into one that can then be tweaked to be better. Of the options listed I voted for the one I think delivers the best "kick" not the best permanent system.
Maybe just change up AW every month. Make it a monthly map with new nodes and new paths.
That would keep AW fresh, and minimize damage to the player base when a BS AW system is in place. We could at least rest in the assurance that the next month would bring something new.
This. I'm for anything that encourages more strategy.
There was an option to go back to the way it was.
That is actually the point of this. It was done with mod approval and the goal is to get as many voices as possible SO THEY DO LISTEN lol. I have been told as long as the thread remains "constructive" and on topic it will not be removed. The more votes, the more replies.. the more attention they will pay. So please vote!
Well, it's a Poll. There's a difference between a Poll and a Petition.
In MCOC terms.. things like this can be seen as a petition.. but that is not the point. The goal isn't to force them to change.. the goal to make them see how the community feels and react accordingly.
I'm making the distinction because you could easily negate your own Thread. You're promoting it as if the numbers will bring about change. A Poll asking for feedback is one thing. Waiting for the results to bring some kind of change is another. I'm offering a friendly suggestion. A discussion is fine. If it becomes a petition and you're promoting it, that's another. Just trying to help you keep your Thread open.
I'm not promoting anything but getting people to express their opinions. I want as many voices as possible, with as many opinions as possible.. a real view of how the community feels.
For yourself, or the Dev Team? That's my point. We have a Thread for the War Discussion. I've noticed you asking people to vote on other Threads and you keep pointing out the opinions. Listen, it really doesn't matter to me what you do. I'm pointing out the fact that it's teetering on a petition. Do what you like. I'm just saying it's pretty apparent.
the goal is to make this a thread for people to show their view in word and vote... to give a real view of the communities opinions. The poll was designed to give the most diverse opinions I could think of for that exact reason.
Also...I am trying to get people to vote in many ways not just in other threads. I have had youtubers talk about it in streams, yeetos tweeted it out for me, and others have blasted it on line. Hoping its a success.... 1 thread with thousands of replies bottle necks the discussion (neither of us are reading 1000 replies lol) the poll shows the opinions in one neat package.
dont get derailed. RESIST
Listen bud, I like what you're doing for the community rn with this thread. But like it was said before, resist. It's not worth the risk by responding lol.
-Diversity stays but goes back to 150 points
-Defender rating goes (really, it doesn't belong in a measurement of skill, if anything the lower rated team has harder fights with weaker tools, insane to punish them when they already must do more with less)
-Defensive kills return at 50 points per
This would ensure maps where champs aren't repeated, but are placed for their ability to defend over their ability to have high PI. It also brings skill back into it (who can clear a map dying the least, who can place the right defenders on the optimal nodes to maximize kills, etc).
Anything short of this and war will continue to be broken.
Diversity is the best option to pseudo nerf MD without changing dexterity (since we know kabam will never change dexterity).
This would allow alliances to play a balance game between strong defenders and diversity. At least it would open up some more chances for strategy.