The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
He's talking about communication. If we're negating that process by being immovable and unreasonable, then we're not respecting the communication we fought for. Also, spending doesn't equal shares in the company.
Yes. Because wanting a game that works is unreasonable. 🤔😂.
And when something good comes out, we're quite quick to point out how pleased we are with Kabam.
And no that wasn't his point, he was saying that voice in our opinions and having voice our troubles with the game, and they "fix it" (doesn't mean they're fixing it the right way) and we bring that up to kabam's attention, that we don't deserve the changes that we wanted in the first place. Which is re******.
And you obviously have no idea how a business functions, when a business brings in money, the share price goes up because the worth goes up.
So no, spending ABSOLUTELY has something to do with the share price. Don't be a not-smart person
You might be on to something if the game wasn't completely free to play. If you bought the game for say $59.99, she maybe you have a sorta point, but you didn't. Spending is optional and only needed to basically progress your account faster than doing it completely F2P.
Kabam is the games developer. Netmarble currently owns Kabam. The money you spend goes to Netmarble, not Kabam.
You can voice your opinion and ask about things that are possible bugs or whatever. What you don't get is to have an expectation that if you suggest something or want something, it should be implemented because you spent money.
You don't own your account. If the game shut down today, there's no refunds, you can't demand they keep it running. Everything you spent on is gone. Spending money gives you no special privileges over someone who doesn't spend money. You spending money, doesn't fix the game faster. It's this type of entitlement that people have that really should change. You need to understand that if you're spending, it's because you want to, not because it's required. You're not above everyone else and you aren't calling the shots.
Saying a bad opinion and then putting money behind it doesn’t make that bad opinion any less bad on this forum and in this game.
It just makes you look entitled.
Exactly. That's the problem with consumers these days. They think that because they spent money .means they get to treat a company or it's employees however they want.
I blame Instagram influencers and review bombers. That level of entitlement is insane.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
He's talking about communication. If we're negating that process by being immovable and unreasonable, then we're not respecting the communication we fought for. Also, spending doesn't equal shares in the company.
Yes. Because wanting a game that works is unreasonable. 🤔😂.
And when something good comes out, we're quite quick to point out how pleased we are with Kabam.
And no that wasn't his point, he was saying that voice in our opinions and having voice our troubles with the game, and they "fix it" (doesn't mean they're fixing it the right way) and we bring that up to kabam's attention, that we don't deserve the changes that we wanted in the first place. Which is re******.
And you obviously have no idea how a business functions, when a business brings in money, the share price goes up because the worth goes up.
So no, spending ABSOLUTELY has something to do with the share price. Don't be a not-smart person
You might be on to something if the game wasn't completely free to play. If you bought the game for say $59.99, she maybe you have a sorta point, but you didn't. Spending is optional and only needed to basically progress your account faster than doing it completely F2P.
Kabam is the games developer. Netmarble currently owns Kabam. The money you spend goes to Netmarble, not Kabam.
You can voice your opinion and ask about things that are possible bugs or whatever. What you don't get is to have an expectation that if you suggest something or want something, it should be implemented because you spent money.
You don't own your account. If the game shut down today, there's no refunds, you can't demand they keep it running. Everything you spent on is gone. Spending money gives you no special privileges over someone who doesn't spend money. You spending money, doesn't fix the game faster. It's this type of entitlement that people have that really should change. You need to understand that if you're spending, it's because you want to, not because it's required. You're not above everyone else and you aren't calling the shots.
Saying a bad opinion and then putting money behind it doesn’t make that bad opinion any less bad on this forum and in this game.
It just makes you look entitled.
Exactly. That's the problem with consumers these days. They think that because they spent money .means they get to treat a company or it's employees however they want.
I blame Instagram influencers and review bombers. That level of entitlement is insane.
Honestly it’s just entitlement, no the customer is not always right, the customer can get things incredibly wrong. It’s worse when they start talking about what they deserve simply because they spent money.
If you find the angry, entitled posts that start with @kabam (even though that’s a banned account nothing to do with kabam) or tagging Kabam Miike, or Boo etc, and replace that tag with “I’d like to see the manager”, you’ve literally got your MCOC Karens.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
He's talking about communication. If we're negating that process by being immovable and unreasonable, then we're not respecting the communication we fought for. Also, spending doesn't equal shares in the company.
Yes. Because wanting a game that works is unreasonable. 🤔😂.
And when something good comes out, we're quite quick to point out how pleased we are with Kabam.
And no that wasn't his point, he was saying that voice in our opinions and having voice our troubles with the game, and they "fix it" (doesn't mean they're fixing it the right way) and we bring that up to kabam's attention, that we don't deserve the changes that we wanted in the first place. Which is re******.
And you obviously have no idea how a business functions, when a business brings in money, the share price goes up because the worth goes up.
So no, spending ABSOLUTELY has something to do with the share price. Don't be a not-smart person
You might be on to something if the game wasn't completely free to play. If you bought the game for say $59.99, she maybe you have a sorta point, but you didn't. Spending is optional and only needed to basically progress your account faster than doing it completely F2P.
Kabam is the games developer. Netmarble currently owns Kabam. The money you spend goes to Netmarble, not Kabam.
You can voice your opinion and ask about things that are possible bugs or whatever. What you don't get is to have an expectation that if you suggest something or want something, it should be implemented because you spent money.
You don't own your account. If the game shut down today, there's no refunds, you can't demand they keep it running. Everything you spent on is gone. Spending money gives you no special privileges over someone who doesn't spend money. You spending money, doesn't fix the game faster. It's this type of entitlement that people have that really should change. You need to understand that if you're spending, it's because you want to, not because it's required. You're not above everyone else and you aren't calling the shots.
Saying a bad opinion and then putting money behind it doesn’t make that bad opinion any less bad on this forum and in this game.
It just makes you look entitled.
Exactly. That's the problem with consumers these days. They think that because they spent money .means they get to treat a company or it's employees however they want.
I blame Instagram influencers and review bombers. That level of entitlement is insane.
Honestly it’s just entitlement, no the customer is not always right, the customer can get things incredibly wrong. It’s worse when they start talking about what they deserve simply because they spent money.
If you find the angry, entitled posts that start with @kabam (even though that’s a banned account nothing to do with kabam) or tagging Kabam Miike, or Boo etc, and replace that tag with “I’d like to see the manager”, you’ve literally got your MCOC Karens.
Lol yep. My comment "I'll get the manager" always gets delete though 🙁
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
He's talking about communication. If we're negating that process by being immovable and unreasonable, then we're not respecting the communication we fought for. Also, spending doesn't equal shares in the company.
Yes. Because wanting a game that works is unreasonable. 🤔😂.
And when something good comes out, we're quite quick to point out how pleased we are with Kabam.
And no that wasn't his point, he was saying that voice in our opinions and having voice our troubles with the game, and they "fix it" (doesn't mean they're fixing it the right way) and we bring that up to kabam's attention, that we don't deserve the changes that we wanted in the first place. Which is re******.
And you obviously have no idea how a business functions, when a business brings in money, the share price goes up because the worth goes up.
So no, spending ABSOLUTELY has something to do with the share price. Don't be a not-smart person
You might be on to something if the game wasn't completely free to play. If you bought the game for say $59.99, she maybe you have a sorta point, but you didn't. Spending is optional and only needed to basically progress your account faster than doing it completely F2P.
Kabam is the games developer. Netmarble currently owns Kabam. The money you spend goes to Netmarble, not Kabam.
You can voice your opinion and ask about things that are possible bugs or whatever. What you don't get is to have an expectation that if you suggest something or want something, it should be implemented because you spent money.
You don't own your account. If the game shut down today, there's no refunds, you can't demand they keep it running. Everything you spent on is gone. Spending money gives you no special privileges over someone who doesn't spend money. You spending money, doesn't fix the game faster. It's this type of entitlement that people have that really should change. You need to understand that if you're spending, it's because you want to, not because it's required. You're not above everyone else and you aren't calling the shots.
Saying a bad opinion and then putting money behind it doesn’t make that bad opinion any less bad on this forum and in this game.
It just makes you look entitled.
Exactly. That's the problem with consumers these days. They think that because they spent money .means they get to treat a company or it's employees however they want.
I blame Instagram influencers and review bombers. That level of entitlement is insane.
To be fair I think this kind of entitlement starts with large corporations of the past. They set the precedent to consumers that pleasing them is priority one and taught them that employees don't matter. Over decades this dogma has evolved to give people, and by example their children and so on, a sense that they are owed via patronage beyond the product they have consumed. Now, lots of corporations have moved on to basically say "there are plenty of customers and we can just be who we are and do what we do, without having to stroke our customers or abuse employees." They just have to tell each individual customer in person, so it takes a long time. Also, the other guy doesn't know how stock values work. Income has very little to do with it, and certainly not the performance of one small piece. At the least, you have to wait for quarterly profit reports to roll out, not just pick a random day in december.
I don't disagree. I've been in retail and food service my entire working career. When I worked for Home Depot, we were told to make returns even if the customer ruined their own product because they didn't pay attention like a $360 mower because they didn't put the oil in it until after the engine seized. Much of it stemmed from the ideology of "the customer is always right" even when they're clearly not. The company I work for now, doesn't abide by that thankfully.
And also correct. Stocks go up because of profit, not sales.
Out of everything on the road map, the one I was(still am btw) looking forward to are the relics. But that's mainly because the thought of being able to use Doom's special 2 and Torch's special 2 in the same match at a rapid succession seemed REALLY cool to me. However, idk much about how it'll work aside from "don't worry this'll be epic." Wish Crystals are a close second tho and I'm giving y'all the benefit of the doubt on that because as a future game designer myself, I can't imagine how much headaches that is and will cause in figuring out how to include that. Solo competitive mode, scoring troubles aside, seemed like a heap of fun in the showdown so I can't wait for that to drop. For me, those are the big 3.
And to supplement your faulty memory, here’s a screenshot from the roadmap that you can’t be bothered to Google for yourself.
Thanks. And since you can't be bothered to read or think for yourself, I'll return the favor. It says that attack values in 6.4 were going to be scaled down by 40-60%, bringing them down to "5k-9k on average." It then says that path fights in 6.1-6.3 would be "scaled down from that top value accordingly."
Someone could naively believe that meant that the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would also be scaled down by 40-60%, but that doesn't make sense. If that was the case, no one would say that. They would just say that all attack values would be scaled down by 40-60%. No one says I'm going to reduce this by 40%, and all of these things will be scaled down from that value accordingly, when they intend to scale everything down equally. "Scaled down from that top value" means the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would be adjusted to make sense given 6.4's adjusted values. For example, if this now meant that 6.3 attack values were higher than 6.4, that doesn't make sense: 6.3 should be equal to or less than 6.4, and 6.3 would need to be lowered.
6.3 originally had +500% attack, and 6.4 originally had +600% attack. That's been reduced to +300% attack in both cases. This reduces 6.3 attack values by 33% and 6.4 values by 43% (whomever wrote '40-60% was probably thinking about the reduction in the attack boosts, not the attack values). Given those values, what should the attack boost values in 6.1 and 6.2 be? They should be equal to or lower than +300%, and they already were: 6.1 has +200% attack and 6.2 has +250% attack. They were already scaled down relative to 6.4. 6.3 and 6.4 were so absurdly high they were completely disconnected from 6.1 and 6.2, and for that matter from everything else except for the OG 7.1 beta that never went live. So even after 6.3 and 6.4 were hammered, 6.1 and 6.2 were fine and didn't need to be lowered for them to "scale down" from 6.4. They already did that properly.
When you are attempting to communicate, you have to presume honest dealers. You can't realistically communicate with someone holding a dictionary and a calculator and looking for opportunities to call you a liar. You don't talk to such people at all. You assume the listener is going to put in at least as much effort comprehending as you do speaking. A reasonable recipient would say "that makes sense: 6.4 was lowered and everything else was brought more or less in line. It might not have been what I was expecting, but it still makes sense given what was said."
"They said they were going to reduce attack values and they didn't so they lied, cf: Websters" is honestly something I have to think long and hard about whether to respond to at all, because it is undeserving of a response from anyone, player or developer.
The last time around, I thought there was valid issues to discuss, and positive motion forward to be had. And I think positive motion forward did happen. The devs have stumbled a lot since then: I see them making a lot of both genuine mistakes and unforced errors. But I see them trying: trying to make content at a much higher rate than they were originally doing so, trying to make changes to improve the game that don't always succeed, but often do, and even trying to communicate more with the players than the nothing we used to get. I want what Kabam is trying to deliver, I just want them to do it a whole lot better than they have been.
I don't see the player community trying nearly as hard. It is all rights and deserves. We have a right to complain, we deserve more than what we get. Those are the complaints of children. What are we doing to make it better? We're not developers (at least not of this game) but that doesn't mean we can't make a better environment to encourage improvement, or make a worse environment to discourage it. At the end of the day, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution. You have the right to be either. But you deserve the one you pursue.
Damn, and here I thought folks who spend money on products and services "deserved" to have assurances that their purchased items would work correctly and had a "right" to complain when what they pay for doesn't work according to how it was sold to them.
And to supplement your faulty memory, here’s a screenshot from the roadmap that you can’t be bothered to Google for yourself.
Thanks. And since you can't be bothered to read or think for yourself, I'll return the favor. It says that attack values in 6.4 were going to be scaled down by 40-60%, bringing them down to "5k-9k on average." It then says that path fights in 6.1-6.3 would be "scaled down from that top value accordingly."
Someone could naively believe that meant that the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would also be scaled down by 40-60%, but that doesn't make sense. If that was the case, no one would say that. They would just say that all attack values would be scaled down by 40-60%. No one says I'm going to reduce this by 40%, and all of these things will be scaled down from that value accordingly, when they intend to scale everything down equally. "Scaled down from that top value" means the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would be adjusted to make sense given 6.4's adjusted values. For example, if this now meant that 6.3 attack values were higher than 6.4, that doesn't make sense: 6.3 should be equal to or less than 6.4, and 6.3 would need to be lowered.
6.3 originally had +500% attack, and 6.4 originally had +600% attack. That's been reduced to +300% attack in both cases. This reduces 6.3 attack values by 33% and 6.4 values by 43% (whomever wrote '40-60% was probably thinking about the reduction in the attack boosts, not the attack values). Given those values, what should the attack boost values in 6.1 and 6.2 be? They should be equal to or lower than +300%, and they already were: 6.1 has +200% attack and 6.2 has +250% attack. They were already scaled down relative to 6.4. 6.3 and 6.4 were so absurdly high they were completely disconnected from 6.1 and 6.2, and for that matter from everything else except for the OG 7.1 beta that never went live. So even after 6.3 and 6.4 were hammered, 6.1 and 6.2 were fine and didn't need to be lowered for them to "scale down" from 6.4. They already did that properly.
When you are attempting to communicate, you have to presume honest dealers. You can't realistically communicate with someone holding a dictionary and a calculator and looking for opportunities to call you a liar. You don't talk to such people at all. You assume the listener is going to put in at least as much effort comprehending as you do speaking. A reasonable recipient would say "that makes sense: 6.4 was lowered and everything else was brought more or less in line. It might not have been what I was expecting, but it still makes sense given what was said."
"They said they were going to reduce attack values and they didn't so they lied, cf: Websters" is honestly something I have to think long and hard about whether to respond to at all, because it is undeserving of a response from anyone, player or developer.
The last time around, I thought there was valid issues to discuss, and positive motion forward to be had. And I think positive motion forward did happen. The devs have stumbled a lot since then: I see them making a lot of both genuine mistakes and unforced errors. But I see them trying: trying to make content at a much higher rate than they were originally doing so, trying to make changes to improve the game that don't always succeed, but often do, and even trying to communicate more with the players than the nothing we used to get. I want what Kabam is trying to deliver, I just want them to do it a whole lot better than they have been.
I don't see the player community trying nearly as hard. It is all rights and deserves. We have a right to complain, we deserve more than what we get. Those are the complaints of children. What are we doing to make it better? We're not developers (at least not of this game) but that doesn't mean we can't make a better environment to encourage improvement, or make a worse environment to discourage it. At the end of the day, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution. You have the right to be either. But you deserve the one you pursue.
Damn, and here I thought folks who spend money on products and services "deserved" to have assurances that their purchased items would work correctly and had a "right" to complain when what they pay for doesn't work according to how it was sold to them.
Thanks for blowing up those illusions 🤷🏻♂️
You don't own anything in the game. You spent money to get ahead faster and that's it. You're not keeping anything you paid for. Your analogy is invalid.
And also correct. Stocks go up because of profit, not sales.
It's almost as if there is a direct correlation between more sales and more profit
Think what you want. Sales doesn't always equal profit.
That still doesn't negate the point that if you're selling something at a value above costs and overhead, you end up with profit. In the case of Kabam/Netmarble, they're selling digital items with no cost and minimal overhead at often high value (certain items exceeding standard game purchase prices and certain sales events costing players more than a brand new PS5). Those are key ingredients for high profit margins.
While the game functionality has suffered significantly (which even the company agrees is the case)we keep seeing sale after sale because the revenue generating side of things keeps humming smoothly while the game is demonstrably broken.
But sure, the players should just be grateful after all and never air justifiable grievances 🤷🏻♂️
And also correct. Stocks go up because of profit, not sales.
It's almost as if there is a direct correlation between more sales and more profit
Think what you want. Sales doesn't always equal profit.
How much money do they put into the game? Servers need upgrades, new technology, software, etc.
Not to mention the employees. The last year and a half has been miserable to all of us, but this game has persisted. The employees there need some kind of acknowledgment for their efforts. We sit here and malign the company as if it’s some kind of Umbrella corporation (different game - I know), but they’re people just like us.
I’ve been mad many times and wanted this and that - but I’ve had to grow up just the same. Maybe it’s time everyone sees this for what it is - a game, a community, a good time while the company tries to make a living.
I just feel that it's very disappointing that, at least from all appearances, it takes Seatin and other Content Creators to make videos for it to feel like any feedback has any actual impact.
There's probably more that you want to hear about on this, and I'll be reading, but won't have anything more to say tonight. It's been a long day and I need to log off or my head might explode. Rest assured, this feedback and much of what else has come our way is being shared with the team.
This! This is what I like! The mods are being relatable, and adding personal feelings to opinions, I love it!
And also correct. Stocks go up because of profit, not sales.
It's almost as if there is a direct correlation between more sales and more profit
Think what you want. Sales doesn't always equal profit.
How much money do they put into the game? Servers need upgrades, new technology, software, etc.
Not to mention the employees. The last year and a half has been miserable to all of us, but this game has persisted. The employees there need some kind of acknowledgment for their efforts. We sit here and malign the company as if it’s some kind of Umbrella corporation (different game - I know), but they’re people just like us.
I’ve been mad many times and wanted this and that - but I’ve had to grow up just the same. Maybe it’s time everyone sees this for what it is - a game, a community, a good time while the company tries to make a living.
Anything you buy in the game, 30% of that goes to apple or Google. The rest goes to everything else- Marvels cut Bills- servers, building rent/maintenance. Paying employees Putting money into developing the game further. The rest goes to Netmarble for whatever they want.
I just feel that it's very disappointing that, at least from all appearances, it takes Seatin and other Content Creators to make videos for it to feel like any feedback has any actual impact.
This I understand, however I feel (of which I’m guilty of as well) that the manner in which we approach these forums is sometimes abrasive to the administrators?
Seatin does hold more “socio-economic” control of the game than we do as individuals, for lack of a better descriptor- but if we all banded together positively and constructively perhaps we could have a positive impact and get things done?
And also correct. Stocks go up because of profit, not sales.
It's almost as if there is a direct correlation between more sales and more profit
Think what you want. Sales doesn't always equal profit.
How much money do they put into the game? Servers need upgrades, new technology, software, etc.
Not to mention the employees. The last year and a half has been miserable to all of us, but this game has persisted. The employees there need some kind of acknowledgment for their efforts. We sit here and malign the company as if it’s some kind of Umbrella corporation (different game - I know), but they’re people just like us.
I’ve been mad many times and wanted this and that - but I’ve had to grow up just the same. Maybe it’s time everyone sees this for what it is - a game, a community, a good time while the company tries to make a living.
Anything you buy in the game, 30% of that goes to apple or Google. The rest goes to everything else- Marvels cut Bills- servers, building rent/maintenance. Paying employees Putting money into developing the game further. The rest goes to Netmarble for whatever they want.
Exactly. I feel as if sometimes our approach on here is with a gigantonormous sense of entitlement.
Digital items with no cost.... Huh. Now I know you're full of 💩
Please do expound on the materials cost to create digital characters? I mentioned overhead, so let's see the pretzel twisting you do to continue trying to veer this topic in to the wastebin of deletion.
It's not worth my time. It's way over your head anyway.
While there are no overhead costs in terms of materials that you input a color to a champ, there is hardware and software upgrades, not to mention server manipulation and expansion every time Kabam wants to introduce a new mechanic - let’s say perfect release where they slow down time.
The software development in that can be developed internally or they need to sub contract it to others outside the company.
If developed internally there is a lot of R&D that is needed. Some components may exist, others need to be purchased.
I’m not a software engineering guy but my best friend is, and she’s explained a lot to me as we discuss MCOC.
Just so we can understand that it costs money and time to make our beloved champs.
Digital items with no cost.... Huh. Now I know you're full of 💩
Please do expound on the materials cost to create digital characters? I mentioned overhead, so let's see the pretzel twisting you do to continue trying to veer this topic in to the wastebin of deletion.
It's not worth my time. It's way over your head anyway.
While there are no overhead costs in terms of materials that you input a color to a champ, there is hardware and software upgrades, not to mention server manipulation and expansion every time Kabam wants to introduce a new mechanic - let’s say perfect release where they slow down time.
The software development in that can be developed internally or they need to sub contract it to others outside the company.
If developed internally there is a lot of R&D that is needed. Some components may exist, others need to be purchased.
I’m not a software engineering guy but my best friend is, and she’s explained a lot to me as we discuss MCOC.
Just so we can understand that it costs money and time to make our beloved champs.
Digital items with no cost.... Huh. Now I know you're full of 💩
Please do expound on the materials cost to create digital characters? I mentioned overhead, so let's see the pretzel twisting you do to continue trying to veer this topic in to the wastebin of deletion.
The materials cost to create digital characters? Oh God.
All of Kabam, and the departments within Kabam, and teams working in those departments, the game economy that they are building, the game engine that they are refactoring, the deliverables, the complex business rules, the complex technical requirements, the great design, the testing (lol but seriously), the QA team, the release team, the infrastructure team. The unsung heroes like Human Resources and Legal and everything else that goes into this blender. All of the software and licenses they need to procure and renew to build these digital characters, and the salaries they have to pay to the people that build them.
What do you think these are, if not overhead? They are running a game economy. And the profitability of that economy fuels this company.
How could you say there is no overhead? Your argument has gone to waste.
Digital items with no cost.... Huh. Now I know you're full of 💩
Please do expound on the materials cost to create digital characters? I mentioned overhead, so let's see the pretzel twisting you do to continue trying to veer this topic in to the wastebin of deletion.
It's not worth my time. It's way over your head anyway.
While there are no overhead costs in terms of materials that you input a color to a champ, there is hardware and software upgrades, not to mention server manipulation and expansion every time Kabam wants to introduce a new mechanic - let’s say perfect release where they slow down time.
The software development in that can be developed internally or they need to sub contract it to others outside the company.
If developed internally there is a lot of R&D that is needed. Some components may exist, others need to be purchased.
I’m not a software engineering guy but my best friend is, and she’s explained a lot to me as we discuss MCOC.
Just so we can understand that it costs money and time to make our beloved champs.
It's almost like there's a term for that... I think it's overhead. Server upgrades don't happen nearly as often as folks would like you to believe. Most changes are done on the software and programming side. These aren't massive cost investments and sales numbers make it pretty clear just how much profit is being made off of these digital materials.
The materials cost to create digital characters? Oh God.
All of Kabam, and the departments within Kabam, and teams working in those departments, the game economy that they are building, the game engine that they are refactoring, the deliverables, the complex business rules, the complex technical requirements, the great design, the testing (lol but seriously), the QA team, the release team, the infrastructure team. The unsung heroes like Human Resources and Legal and everything else that goes into this blender. All of the software and licenses they need to procure and renew to build these digital characters, and the salaries they have to pay to the people that build them.
What do you think these are, if not overhead? They are running a game economy. And the profitability of that economy fuels this company.
How could you say there is no overhead? Your argument has gone to waste.
I quite LITERALLY mentioned overhead but, hey, thanks for noticing!
The materials cost to create digital characters? Oh God.
All of Kabam, and the departments within Kabam, and teams working in those departments, the game economy that they are building, the game engine that they are refactoring, the deliverables, the complex business rules, the complex technical requirements, the great design, the testing (lol but seriously), the QA team, the release team, the infrastructure team. The unsung heroes like Human Resources and Legal and everything else that goes into this blender. All of the software and licenses they need to procure and renew to build these digital characters, and the salaries they have to pay to the people that build them.
What do you think these are, if not overhead? They are running a game economy. And the profitability of that economy fuels this company.
How could you say there is no overhead? Your argument has gone to waste.
I quite LITERALLY mentioned overhead but, hey, thanks for noticing!
You said no cost and minimal overhead. That’s not true. Everything I mentioned shows you that it comes at a hefty cost and definitely not minimal overhead!
You said no cost and minimal overhead. That’s not true. Everything I mentioned shows you that it comes at a hefty cost and definitely not minimal overhead!
Would love to know your definition of "hefty cost" compared to profit margins
You said no cost and minimal overhead. That’s not true. Everything I mentioned shows you that it comes at a hefty cost and definitely not minimal overhead!
Would love to know your definition of "hefty cost" compared to profit margins
I would prefer it if you explained your definition of no cost and minimal overhead.
I would prefer it if you explained your definition of no cost and minimal overhead.
Easy, there's no materials cost to add new content unless it somehow alters the entire delivery of the game. Servers aren't added for new challenges or champs or offers, those are coded by on staff coders for the most part. Thus overhead. Maybe some costs if they need to lease a specific software from another developer but that's highly rare. The main issue is they lease the game engine from another party and, well, we've seen how that's been working out lately.
Digital items with no cost.... Huh. Now I know you're full of 💩
Please do expound on the materials cost to create digital characters? I mentioned overhead, so let's see the pretzel twisting you do to continue trying to veer this topic in to the wastebin of deletion.
It's not worth my time. It's way over your head anyway.
It's amazing how all over the place you are every single time you come on here. One moment it's all "these is digital content so you have no right to have an attachment to pixels" while also arguing "there is so much blood, sweat and tears put in to this so you should be grateful for all of their hard work".
Even though Kabam Mike pretty said what I was thinking I’m still going post my thoughts. They way I see it Kabam got us by the balls, there are no consequences for they’re failures and expectations not met. They communicate when they feel it. I get they are not out pet, but at the same time it reflects how they view us. Considering how huge this game and community is, you’d think their customer relations will be on point but far from it and this is the base of all the issues. A father may be broke and how his kid views it might be different. Ex. We've all been noticing AI changes, many of us have commented on this and Kabam just can't be bothered with a response…Yes / No / we’re not sure / Imagine it was an issue that favors the player-base, somehow sonic will show up and do wonders. Yeah they’ve commented on this thread, must Seatin or other big CC set in motion something first. I won’t say they don’t communicate at all but it’s not enough. This has nothing to do with entitlement but just customer relations, the community is huge and cares about the game regardless of how annoying we can be when frustrated.
I would prefer it if you explained your definition of no cost and minimal overhead.
Easy, there's no materials cost to add new content unless it somehow alters the entire delivery of the game. Servers aren't added for new challenges or champs or offers, those are coded by on staff coders for the most part. Thus overhead. Maybe some costs if they need to lease a specific software from another developer but that's highly rare. The main issue is they lease the game engine from another party and, well, we've seen how that's been working out lately.
It's pretty amazing watching you self own here. Keep going.
I would prefer it if you explained your definition of no cost and minimal overhead.
Easy, there's no materials cost to add new content unless it somehow alters the entire delivery of the game. Servers aren't added for new challenges or champs or offers, those are coded by on staff coders for the most part. Thus overhead. Maybe some costs if they need to lease a specific software from another developer but that's highly rare. The main issue is they lease the game engine from another party and, well, we've seen how that's been working out lately.
No materials cost... how do you know that? Do you think the game just magically designs itself? What do you think the unity engine is? They all have computers and design software. LOL. Wow.
I would prefer it if you explained your definition of no cost and minimal overhead.
Easy, there's no materials cost to add new content unless it somehow alters the entire delivery of the game. Servers aren't added for new challenges or champs or offers, those are coded by on staff coders for the most part. Thus overhead. Maybe some costs if they need to lease a specific software from another developer but that's highly rare. The main issue is they lease the game engine from another party and, well, we've seen how that's been working out lately.
They've been partnering all along. As for the costs, code doesn't make itself. The people who work there don't pay their own salaries. Balancing influxes and internal economics doesn't happen autonomously. Those pixels aren't just imaginary. They have a cost and a value, on our side and theirs.
Comments
I blame Instagram influencers and review bombers. That level of entitlement is insane.
If you find the angry, entitled posts that start with @kabam (even though that’s a banned account nothing to do with kabam) or tagging Kabam Miike, or Boo etc, and replace that tag with “I’d like to see the manager”, you’ve literally got your MCOC Karens.
And also correct. Stocks go up because of profit, not sales.
But that's mainly because the thought of being able to use Doom's special 2 and Torch's special 2 in the same match at a rapid succession seemed REALLY cool to me.
However, idk much about how it'll work aside from "don't worry this'll be epic."
Wish Crystals are a close second tho and I'm giving y'all the benefit of the doubt on that because as a future game designer myself, I can't imagine how much headaches that is and will cause in figuring out how to include that.
Solo competitive mode, scoring troubles aside, seemed like a heap of fun in the showdown so I can't wait for that to drop.
For me, those are the big 3.
Thanks for blowing up those illusions 🤷🏻♂️
While the game functionality has suffered significantly (which even the company agrees is the case)we keep seeing sale after sale because the revenue generating side of things keeps humming smoothly while the game is demonstrably broken.
But sure, the players should just be grateful after all and never air justifiable grievances 🤷🏻♂️
Not to mention the employees. The last year and a half has been miserable to all of us, but this game has persisted. The employees there need some kind of acknowledgment for their efforts. We sit here and malign the company as if it’s some kind of Umbrella corporation (different game - I know), but they’re people just like us.
I’ve been mad many times and wanted this and that - but I’ve had to grow up just the same. Maybe it’s time everyone sees this for what it is - a game, a community, a good time while the company tries to make a living.
Marvels cut
Bills- servers, building rent/maintenance.
Paying employees
Putting money into developing the game further.
The rest goes to Netmarble for whatever they want.
Seatin does hold more “socio-economic” control of the game than we do as individuals, for lack of a better descriptor- but if we all banded together positively and constructively perhaps we could have a positive impact and get things done?
The software development in that can be developed internally or they need to sub contract it to others outside the company.
If developed internally there is a lot of R&D that is needed. Some components may exist, others need to be purchased.
I’m not a software engineering guy but my best friend is, and she’s explained a lot to me as we discuss MCOC.
Just so we can understand that it costs money and time to make our beloved champs.
Oh God.
All of Kabam, and the departments within Kabam, and teams working in those departments, the game economy that they are building, the game engine that they are refactoring, the deliverables, the complex business rules, the complex technical requirements, the great design, the testing (lol but seriously), the QA team, the release team, the infrastructure team.
The unsung heroes like Human Resources and Legal and everything else that goes into this blender.
All of the software and licenses they need to procure and renew to build these digital characters, and the salaries they have to pay to the people that build them.
What do you think these are, if not overhead? They are running a game economy. And the profitability of that economy fuels this company.
How could you say there is no overhead? Your argument has gone to waste.
Ex. We've all been noticing AI changes, many of us have commented on this and Kabam just can't be bothered with a response…Yes / No / we’re not sure / Imagine it was an issue that favors the player-base, somehow sonic will show up and do wonders. Yeah they’ve commented on this thread, must Seatin or other big CC set in motion something first. I won’t say they don’t communicate at all but it’s not enough. This has nothing to do with entitlement but just customer relations, the community is huge and cares about the game regardless of how annoying we can be when frustrated.