6* AG is unfair.

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Comments

  • DNA3000 said:



    Ok I see, so like if they had coded that in when they coded in the reroll.

    There is no code for reroll so this is the next best thing with literally the same result as a reroll.
    There is no code that's specific to any particular crystal. Crystal contents are governed by a general crystal opening system that uses reward tables. Every crystal is defined by a table of results and the weighted percentage chance for that result to drop. It is not possible for an AG trade in to programmatically exclude the AG class used to buy it, because the rewards are essentially baked into the crystal when it is defined. Instead, Kabam would have to make six different AG crystals, each one excluding a single class.

    They could make six new crystals in theory, but new crystal definitions do not appear to come "for free" because a relatively small number of them can have significant impacts on the performance of the entire game, which is why they do periodic crystal clean ups and why they seem reluctant to create large numbers of crystals to work around issues like this.
    I get that. I was talking about a reroll function on the crystal reward screen itlsef. Eliminate the resource dropped , and spin a crysta again(awakening gem crystal in this instance)
    Inside ball:

    That would require code to perform the reroll function. It would require UI changes to implement the controls for the reroll button. It would require database schema changes to add the flags that would determine which crystals were allowed to be rerolled. It would require toolchain changes to give designers the ability to flip the flag to allow the designated crystals to be rerolled. And because you cannot control a feature like this once you add it to the game mechanics, you also have to add all the base stuff you would need if this feature was used in the general case rather than just in the trade in store itself - data mining tools and dashboards to track the usage of the feature, and modifications to the resource monitoring engines to account for rerolls (to distinguish between rolls adding resources to the game economy and rerolls which swap one resource for another, to prevent double counting). Otherwise it would be a landmine waiting to detonate under some poor designer's feet when they stumbled across this feature a year from now.

    At this point you're dealing with a feature that touches the engine, the meta engine, the UI, the game economy, the data analytics, and the game client, and that means you probably have to allocate a producer slot to manage all of this and coordinate the time involved (you can't just make half these changes and not the other half without things in the game getting wonky, so if you can't allocate all the dev time simultaneously you'd have to implement in phases, keeping certain featured dormant until they could be safely activated). There's also game client testing (what happens if a game client that has not yet been updated to have the reroll code attempts to spin a crystal after rerolls are enabled?).

    Unfortunately, that's the scope of work that can happen when you try to add a button.
  • SearmenisSearmenis Posts: 1,051 ★★★★

    Thank you Kabam for even providing the trade in store. Although not everyone can get lucky this time around, please consider bringing back something similar in the future.

    It's understandable why there's a limited number of chances for a 6* AG reroll. (The store wasn't intended to allow unlimited limit, which would give way to 100% of players with 6* AG to turn it to whatever class they'd like).

    This thread has been pointing out how the pricing of 5 5* generic AGs for 1 6* AG crystal, probably is too pricy for most players, especially with the limit on trading 4* generic AGs for 5* AG crystal.

    It's pricy to the point that there are players who are sitting on 15+ 5* AG who are 1 5* generic AG away from trading for a 6* AG crystal.

    Probably? PROBABLY???
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 3,382 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DNA3000 said:



    Ok I see, so like if they had coded that in when they coded in the reroll.

    There is no code for reroll so this is the next best thing with literally the same result as a reroll.
    There is no code that's specific to any particular crystal. Crystal contents are governed by a general crystal opening system that uses reward tables. Every crystal is defined by a table of results and the weighted percentage chance for that result to drop. It is not possible for an AG trade in to programmatically exclude the AG class used to buy it, because the rewards are essentially baked into the crystal when it is defined. Instead, Kabam would have to make six different AG crystals, each one excluding a single class.

    They could make six new crystals in theory, but new crystal definitions do not appear to come "for free" because a relatively small number of them can have significant impacts on the performance of the entire game, which is why they do periodic crystal clean ups and why they seem reluctant to create large numbers of crystals to work around issues like this.
    I get that. I was talking about a reroll function on the crystal reward screen itlsef. Eliminate the resource dropped , and spin a crysta again(awakening gem crystal in this instance)
    Inside ball:

    That would require code to perform the reroll function. It would require UI changes to implement the controls for the reroll button. It would require database schema changes to add the flags that would determine which crystals were allowed to be rerolled. It would require toolchain changes to give designers the ability to flip the flag to allow the designated crystals to be rerolled. And because you cannot control a feature like this once you add it to the game mechanics, you also have to add all the base stuff you would need if this feature was used in the general case rather than just in the trade in store itself - data mining tools and dashboards to track the usage of the feature, and modifications to the resource monitoring engines to account for rerolls (to distinguish between rolls adding resources to the game economy and rerolls which swap one resource for another, to prevent double counting). Otherwise it would be a landmine waiting to detonate under some poor designer's feet when they stumbled across this feature a year from now.

    At this point you're dealing with a feature that touches the engine, the meta engine, the UI, the game economy, the data analytics, and the game client, and that means you probably have to allocate a producer slot to manage all of this and coordinate the time involved (you can't just make half these changes and not the other half without things in the game getting wonky, so if you can't allocate all the dev time simultaneously you'd have to implement in phases, keeping certain featured dormant until they could be safely activated). There's also game client testing (what happens if a game client that has not yet been updated to have the reroll code attempts to spin a crystal after rerolls are enabled?).

    Unfortunately, that's the scope of work that can happen when you try to add a button.
    @Fredhorst23

  • Featured Items. Always present.

    That's not reroll code you're looking at. As mentioned above, it is possible to create a special trade that allows you to trade a science thingy for a chance at a randomly selected thingy that is not science. But the way that is done is by crafting a special crystal that contains only the mystic, mutant, skill, tech, and cosmic thingies and allowing players to trade science thingies for that crystal. To do this in the general case would require making six different crystals and creating six different trades. But this solution has its own set of problems, like consider what the store would look like if this were done for several different tiers of the same items. You could have dozen of trades cluttering up the store, and requiring dozens of crystals just to implement the intermediary crystals which could have potential side effects on the game if not done carefully.

    That's why the subject of reroll code came up in the first place: as a way to implement with tech a solution that didn't require all of these intermediate things. But that technology doesn't currently exist.
  • Fredhorst23Fredhorst23 Posts: 1,150 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:


    Featured Items. Always present.

    That's not reroll code you're looking at. As mentioned above, it is possible to create a special trade that allows you to trade a science thingy for a chance at a randomly selected thingy that is not science. But the way that is done is by crafting a special crystal that contains only the mystic, mutant, skill, tech, and cosmic thingies and allowing players to trade science thingies for that crystal. To do this in the general case would require making six different crystals and creating six different trades. But this solution has its own set of problems, like consider what the store would look like if this were done for several different tiers of the same items. You could have dozen of trades cluttering up the store, and requiring dozens of crystals just to implement the intermediary crystals which could have potential side effects on the game if not done carefully.

    That's why the subject of reroll code came up in the first place: as a way to implement with tech a solution that didn't require all of these intermediate things. But that technology doesn't currently exist.
    Yeah I think the idea is that it probably SHOULD have been done like the cat trade in crystal.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,800 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:


    Featured Items. Always present.

    That's not reroll code you're looking at. As mentioned above, it is possible to create a special trade that allows you to trade a science thingy for a chance at a randomly selected thingy that is not science. But the way that is done is by crafting a special crystal that contains only the mystic, mutant, skill, tech, and cosmic thingies and allowing players to trade science thingies for that crystal. To do this in the general case would require making six different crystals and creating six different trades. But this solution has its own set of problems, like consider what the store would look like if this were done for several different tiers of the same items. You could have dozen of trades cluttering up the store, and requiring dozens of crystals just to implement the intermediary crystals which could have potential side effects on the game if not done carefully.

    That's why the subject of reroll code came up in the first place: as a way to implement with tech a solution that didn't require all of these intermediate things. But that technology doesn't currently exist.
    What we have in the trade-in now is a representation of an actual reroll of a six-sided die. Sometimes you want that (craps), but in this case we (people that don't want to draw what they turned in) don't.
    In this case what people really want is a crystal with the excluded item as the cost. It would require six of them if Kabam uses tech they already have and know works.

    How did this get to be a thing for heated back and forth? You all knew what they meant. Stop being petty and pedantic.
  • DNA3000 said:


    Featured Items. Always present.

    That's not reroll code you're looking at. As mentioned above, it is possible to create a special trade that allows you to trade a science thingy for a chance at a randomly selected thingy that is not science. But the way that is done is by crafting a special crystal that contains only the mystic, mutant, skill, tech, and cosmic thingies and allowing players to trade science thingies for that crystal. To do this in the general case would require making six different crystals and creating six different trades. But this solution has its own set of problems, like consider what the store would look like if this were done for several different tiers of the same items. You could have dozen of trades cluttering up the store, and requiring dozens of crystals just to implement the intermediary crystals which could have potential side effects on the game if not done carefully.

    That's why the subject of reroll code came up in the first place: as a way to implement with tech a solution that didn't require all of these intermediate things. But that technology doesn't currently exist.
    What we have in the trade-in now is a representation of an actual reroll of a six-sided die. Sometimes you want that (craps), but in this case we (people that don't want to draw what they turned in) don't.
    In this case what people really want is a crystal with the excluded item as the cost. It would require six of them if Kabam uses tech they already have and know works.

    How did this get to be a thing for heated back and forth? You all knew what they meant. Stop being petty and pedantic.
    It honestly didn't seem all that heated to me. If anything that discussion seems to have been one of the tamer parts of the thread to date.
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 3,382 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:


    Featured Items. Always present.

    That's not reroll code you're looking at. As mentioned above, it is possible to create a special trade that allows you to trade a science thingy for a chance at a randomly selected thingy that is not science. But the way that is done is by crafting a special crystal that contains only the mystic, mutant, skill, tech, and cosmic thingies and allowing players to trade science thingies for that crystal. To do this in the general case would require making six different crystals and creating six different trades. But this solution has its own set of problems, like consider what the store would look like if this were done for several different tiers of the same items. You could have dozen of trades cluttering up the store, and requiring dozens of crystals just to implement the intermediary crystals which could have potential side effects on the game if not done carefully.

    That's why the subject of reroll code came up in the first place: as a way to implement with tech a solution that didn't require all of these intermediate things. But that technology doesn't currently exist.
    How did this get to be a thing for heated back and forth? You all knew what they meant. Stop being petty and pedantic.
    It started with someone requesting kabam mail everyone a new crystal because they rerolled the same class
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