Eternity of Pain defender attack value too high?

In my opinion it seems too high. This week's Overseer has an attack of 16,016. Using a R2 6* and I'm KO'd in one or two punches. Combine that with the AI often holding on to specials until Encroaching Stun triggers or until they build to an S3, plus the nodes with timers and the rest of the nodes interacting with his abilities, it's no longer a fun challenge relying on skill.

Comments

xNig

Hopefully you’re not expecting to tank a full combo from him and survive.

SuperSleight

Hopefully you’re not expecting to tank a full combo from him and survive.

Are you saying the fight is totally fair and you enjoyed it? Why is being able to survive one combo too easy?

Crusaderjr

In my opinion it seems too high. This week's Overseer has an attack of 16,016. Using a R2 6* and I'm KO'd in one or two punches. Combine that with the AI often holding on to specials until Encroaching Stun triggers or until they build to an S3, plus the nodes with timers and the rest of the nodes interacting with his abilities, it's no longer a fun challenge relying on skill.

im not saying the fights for eternity are fair or just, combining the current game bugs and such BUT the point of this content is to be difficult and make 1 shots possible only to those super skilled and dedicated to perfecting the fight.(again i know thats not possible for the majority atm due to bugs, but some still do it)

difficulty to reward ratios are good so no complaints here. average out maybe 2-5 revives per week on these bosses and you will get your resource worth in exchange.

Savage123456789

Kabam have been trying to make 6* R3s more relevant. And most of these difficult contents were made for that reason. So a R2 not being effective here isn't a reason for them to tone the difficult down

ItsDamien

Kabam have been trying to make 6* R3s more relevant. And most of these difficult contents were made for that reason. So a R2 not being effective here isn't a reason for them to tone the difficult down

This also hits on a really good point as to why this is only for TB and Paragon. To be TB or higher you need to have a R3. It shows that the intent behind the content is to use R3s. It doesn’t mean you can’t use lower than that or 5/65s, but you are going to have a harder time in doing so.

SuperSleight

Kabam have been trying to make 6* R3s more relevant. And most of these difficult contents were made for that reason. So a R2 not being effective here isn't a reason for them to tone the difficult down

The difference between a R2 and R3 isn't enough to really make a difference. I used my R2 6* Odin. His health is 36,090. At R3 his health would be 42,815, a difference of 6725. That's probably not even one punch difference.

AverageDesi

It's good. It's tiring taking full combos and surviving

Searmenis

Apart from the problems, bugs etc, the attack value is pretty fair for an event like this one imo. I bet if they were to reduce it, they would have added more nodes instead, making this fight impossible to handle for the middle TB player.

GrassKnuckles

It’s the same as last year…

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J0eySn0w

It's not really about the attack value but a combination of factors: the fight design itself mainly the encroaching stun and power alternator node interaction, the AI upgrade (sometimes it's as if they have no recovery time which could as a result of delayed input responses) and my biggest issue is the control issues when you're failing dexes and your combos are not connecting. It's like giving someone a big task and sabotaging their ability to get it done. If the game was running very smoothly, it would been a challenging but not as painful as it is atm. For me it is frustration because the game doesn't function as it's supposed to half the time.

SuperSleight

Something you’ve not considered is overseer himself. If he counters your heavy or specials, you’ll take huge damage. Also, for a time after his specials trigger, he’ll be in cosmic mode so you’ll take big damage on his light hits. Could be what you’re seeing.

That's true, that's adding to what's making this week's EoP so unnecessarily painful.

SuperSleight

It's not really about the attack value but a combination of factors: the fight design itself mainly the encroaching stun and power alternator node interaction, the AI upgrade (sometimes it's as if they have no recovery time which could as a result of delayed input responses) and my biggest issue is the control issues when you're failing dexes and your combos are not connecting. It's like giving someone a big task and sabotaging their ability to get it done. If the game was running very smoothly, it would been a challenging but not as painful as it is atm. For me it is frustration because the game doesn't function as it's supposed to half the time.

Definitely agree

Sean_Who

Something you’ve not considered is overseer himself. If he counters your heavy or specials, you’ll take huge damage. Also, for a time after his specials trigger, he’ll be in cosmic mode so you’ll take big damage on his light hits. Could be what you’re seeing.
That's true, that's adding to what's making this week's EoP so unnecessarily painful.

Eternity of... necessary pain.

The fight is fine.

Vendemiaire

Attack value is fine considering how valuable the rewards are.

DNA3000

Hopefully you’re not expecting to tank a full combo from him and survive.
Are you saying the fight is totally fair and you enjoyed it? Why is being able to survive one combo too easy?

It is not totally fair. It is totally unfair. It is intended to be totally unfair. EoP is not intended to be a welcome mat of reward piles. It is intended to test the highest tier players with the highest difficulty content in the game.

Yes, we have control issues and yes, the game is not working properly in all respects. But that doesn't change the fact that EoP is not intended to be something within the reach of everyone attempting it. However hard you think it is, and regardless of why you think it is that hard, it is entirely possible that it is supposed to be that hard.

To put it another way:

If the game was running very smoothly, it would been a challenging but not as painful as it is atm.

There's no reason to believe this. What's more likely is, if the game was running very smoothly, EoP would have been tuned to be even more painful than it is now. It is not like the designers shoot an arrow randomly into the sky, and where ever it lands that's what the difficulty of the content becomes. They playtest it with the same game we have, and they tune the difficulty until it meets the level of difficulty they intend. The difficulty of EoP was set at a time when the game is performing the way it is now. The safe assumption is that if the game was functioning better, they would have kept increasing the difficulty of EoP until it reached the same amount of difficulty it is now with the game in the state it is in.

Game difficulty is mostly graded on a curve, not on an absolute scale. Most people think 90% is an A. If everyone gets 90% then everyone gets an A. But when it comes to game difficulty, the top 10% get an A. If everyone gets 99% and only a couple people get 100%, then those people get the A and everyone else gets Bs and lower no matter how well they did on the test. EoP difficulty is aimed at an approximate target where the top X% of players successfully complete it. If about that many do, the difficulty was set correctly. If a lot fewer do, it was set too hard. If a lot more do, it was set too easy.

Anger week two is only too difficult if not enough players complete it. If enough do, then its difficulty is objectively set correctly, regardless of the state of the game engine. (This ignores the effects of consumable resource expenditures, which complicate but do not negate the fundamental principle). That's how difficulty is judged, and that's why regardless of whether players think it is "fair" or not, the state of the game software is an included factor in the difficulty of content. Difficulty is not set abstractly. It is set relative to what the players can do with the game they are handed.

LeNoirFaineant

I almost got the Solo with Angela. Got him down with one revive. It doesn't need to be toned down.

GOTG

Would be stupid if you got full combo and a SP3 and still survive like in story quest lol.

SuperSleight

EoP (and previously SoP) certainly differed in difficulty from week to week, but these last two, Hercules and Overseer, have been rough. And especially with this Overseer fight there are just way too many things going on. Besides the usual nodes (SP3 active, health and attack boosts), there are seven nodes.

Heal Block - Passive: Can't be shrugged/purified. You can't benefit from Willpower healing on non-damaging debuffs. Any champs that have regen, no healing for you.
Even Punishment: Stunning Overseer causes 1 buff to be nullified from both champs. But haha sucka, Overseer is immune to nullify, and his sig ability causes you to take a burst of physical damage if he has a buff. And if you were relying on a true strike buff to counter his autoblock, this will end up removing it (unless you have other buffs first).
Parry: His parries will stun you, so his autoblock after specials will parry stun you and you'll probably get one-two punched and KO'd.
Encroaching Stun: Get stunned every 20 seconds unless you're throwing a special or stun-immune.
Power Alternator: Every 15 seconds, if you have more power than him, your power is drained and given to him. Really nice when Encroaching Stun is coming up and your power disappears because of this.
Feats of Power: When above 1 bar of power he gains a fury, above 2 bars he gains cruelty. Because that's what he needs, even more attack to pummel you into the ground. Also possibly more power from the next node.
Rich get Richer: Whichever champ has more unique buffs gains 9% of a bar of power a second. Just to add to the power chaos. And remember not to parry because that'll remove a buff you'll want for this.

Then we've got Overseer's abilities to add in.

Retaliation: If your ability fails due to his immunity or reduced Ability Accuracy you take a burst of physical damage.
Combine that with his Sp2, which inflicts a Disorient Debuff for 12 seconds, reducing Defensive Ability Accuracy by 40%, which scales with Gamma Power. Heal Block prevents you from healing from the debuff, and any abilities failing keeps giving you bursts of damage, chipping away your health.
Regen: His Sp1 in Cosmic mode gives him a regen for 7% of missing health, so that can be a pain as his health gets lower.

Then there's the AI.

If your champ doesn't get many buffs, Overseer will constantly be gaining power from Rich get Richer. Then he likes to hold on to specials so he can Sp3 you in the ground.
You can't parry him for the most part, so to get openings you can bait heavies, do intercepts, or counter specials. You can bait some heavies but you're going to take lots of block damage. With intercepting, the AI dashing in varies a lot, and I've been noticing lots more of the AI light intercepting me. Just a lot of randomness that you can't really outskill.

Let's talk about counters. You've got to deal with all of the nodes, then Overseer's abilities, and then on top of that the requirements of the objectives, so good counters are super specific. And then whatever counters would be good, many don't have the champs or have them ranked up.

There needs to be a balance of difficulty, rewards, and fun, and in this case it's not quite what it should be is all I'm saying.

ItsDamien

There needs to be a balance of difficulty, rewards, and fun, and in this case it's not quite what it should be is all I'm saying.

Fun is subjective and cannot be quantified in any meaningful manner. That part is moot and will vary from player to player.

The difficulty to reward ratio…

You’re telling me that a total of 8 hard but doable fights, with items that you can earn for free, is not worth a full T6B, T3A, 1.25 T5CC of your choice, generic 6* Sig Stones, and a Class Nexus of your choosing, is “not quite what it should be”?

You’re crazy if that’s not worth it for TB, let alone Paragon players who get double of the rarest rank up materials.

Sean_Who

This is some of the best difficulty:reward ratio in the game... Unlimited attempts and a week to gather resources.

xNig

Some players tend to be allergic to difficult content. Earlier acts have been toned down too much imo.

Doosra

In my opinion it seems too high. This week's Overseer has an attack of 16,016. Using a R2 6* and I'm KO'd in one or two punches. Combine that with the AI often holding on to specials until Encroaching Stun triggers or until they build to an S3, plus the nodes with timers and the rest of the nodes interacting with his abilities, it's no longer a fun challenge relying on skill.

Read the event title

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Reference

OP how about look at this way: under such a nodes and damage combination but you can still make it, do you have great sense of accomplishment?

solopolo

Hopefully you’re not expecting to tank a full combo from him and survive.

Funny enough I did exactly this with a 5r5 Stealth spidey, who's one of the least tanky champs. Tanked maybe 7 hits before dying. Damage is definitely not the worst part of that fight.

TyEdge

Kabam have been trying to make 6* R3s more relevant. And most of these difficult contents were made for that reason. So a R2 not being effective here isn't a reason for them to tone the difficult down
This also hits on a really good point as to why this is only for TB and Paragon. To be TB or higher you need to have a R3. It shows that the intent behind the content is to use R3s. It doesn’t mean you can’t use lower than that or 5/65s, but you are going to have a harder time in doing so.

I’m not gonna read this entire thread so apologies if this was addressed. This week’s content specifically called for a 5/65 for most players because they’ve been so ridiculously stubborn guarding 6-star sig stones. A 5/65/200 Angela is gonna have a far easier time than a 6-star 3/45/60, for example.

So long as the fights are designed to require ability-based counters, sig levels are going to come into play and keep 5/65s in the fight for lots of us. I’ve got 26 rank 3+ and another dozen or so r2 champs. Off the top of my head, I used 5-stars for Crossbones twice, Dorm, Overseer and Herc. I used 6-stars for Blade and Ikaris. My finale team was all 5-stars (Herc, Ronan and Hype).

Strategically, I could probably have used more r3 champs if I split it into more fights but I decided it would cost more resources and time. Maybe I’m wrong.

xNig

Hopefully you’re not expecting to tank a full combo from him and survive.
Funny enough I did exactly this with a 5r5 Stealth spidey, who's one of the least tanky champs. Tanked maybe 7 hits before dying. Damage is definitely not the worst part of that fight.

If I’m guessing correctly, you likely survived cause he didn’t just launch a special so avoid the passive damage.

Regardless, I think the attack values are just fine. It’s punishing but it’s supposed to be. Hopefully Kabam keeps it that way and not tune it down like what they did for A6.

BuggyDClown

Remove that sassy AI and it's fine in my opinion