Juggernaut Buff: Definitely a Banger But...
21Eggatron
Member Posts: 103 ★★
Hello forums (and Kabam),
So I've been hoping for a Juggernaut buff for a while now, (yes because he didn't fit anywhere in the meta, but also because I thought the champ deserved better seeing as he's such a beast in the comics). I'm THRILLED with his buff, but there is literally one issue I have that's a pretty big problem overall for the champ.
Things I like:
- Big Damage
- Simple to Use
- Excellent Buff Control
- Free intercepts thanks to using block + Unstoppable as a Counterpunch.
- FUN
The one thing I don't like is that his Gem gets removed too easily and in situations that realistically he should run right over.
If you're unfamiliar with how his new kit works, it's all centered around his Gem. The Gem gets removed when Juggernaut is inflicted with ANY Non-Damaging Debuff.
This includes (but is not limited to):
- Armor Break
- Weakness
- Fatigue
- Slow
- Petrify
- Exhaustion
- Dark Tide
- Living Abyss
- Decelerate
- Spectre
- Disorient
- Taunt
- Infuriate
- Heal Block
- Power Drain/Steal/Burn
- Wither
- Trauma
Some of these make sense; common top Science champs are meant to counter him. The problem is that Non-Damaging Debuff is so broad that it makes him really hard to use in certain situations and against champs his class is meant to counter.
A quick list of Cosmics that even when using Juggernaut perfectly will either stall or completely ruin his rotation:
- Air Walker
- Angela
- Annihilus
- Captain Marvel (Movie)
- Cosmic Ghost Rider (Starts without the Gem, will regain after a Special Attack)
- Hercules
- Ikaris
- Knull
- Silver Surfer
- Super Skrull
- Terrax
- Vision Aarkus
Several of which are common War Defenders OR in several people's Battlegrounds Decks
Now, the argument could be made that you can just use basic combos and Special 3s, but let's face it; a Mystic who can't use their ideal rotation against tough Cosmics is a deterrent to most players looking for their next R3/R4 candidate.
WHAT I PROPOSE IS ONE OF TWO THINGS
Number 1: Change it so that only certain Non-Damaging Debuffs remove the Gem (such as, ones fairly unique to Science champs). My personal choices would be Slow, Decelerate, Fatigue and Exhaustion.
Number 2: Change it so that the Gem cannot be removed when Juggernaut has Class Advantage (Rxkid75 in Vega's Discord suggested this).
I honestly think Option 1 would make Juggernaut an actual relevant defender as well as attacker, but I can absolutely live with Option 2 as it means he's strong against the tougher defenders of the Cosmic Class.
To end on a positive note, I'll just say this. If I ever get the 6 Star, I will use my Mystic 3 to 4 Rank Up Gem I've been saving from Act 7 Exploration back in March. He's that much of a fit for me.
I hope this reaches the right people's eyes, because the buff is really good but that one drawback is so limiting.
P.S. People struggling to maintain Max Momentum, I've found it's really easy if you Medium, Light, Light, Light, hold block until the opponent dashes in and use your Unstoppable to counter their hit, repeat until Special 2.
So I've been hoping for a Juggernaut buff for a while now, (yes because he didn't fit anywhere in the meta, but also because I thought the champ deserved better seeing as he's such a beast in the comics). I'm THRILLED with his buff, but there is literally one issue I have that's a pretty big problem overall for the champ.
Things I like:
- Big Damage
- Simple to Use
- Excellent Buff Control
- Free intercepts thanks to using block + Unstoppable as a Counterpunch.
- FUN
The one thing I don't like is that his Gem gets removed too easily and in situations that realistically he should run right over.
If you're unfamiliar with how his new kit works, it's all centered around his Gem. The Gem gets removed when Juggernaut is inflicted with ANY Non-Damaging Debuff.
This includes (but is not limited to):
- Armor Break
- Weakness
- Fatigue
- Slow
- Petrify
- Exhaustion
- Dark Tide
- Living Abyss
- Decelerate
- Spectre
- Disorient
- Taunt
- Infuriate
- Heal Block
- Power Drain/Steal/Burn
- Wither
- Trauma
Some of these make sense; common top Science champs are meant to counter him. The problem is that Non-Damaging Debuff is so broad that it makes him really hard to use in certain situations and against champs his class is meant to counter.
A quick list of Cosmics that even when using Juggernaut perfectly will either stall or completely ruin his rotation:
- Air Walker
- Angela
- Annihilus
- Captain Marvel (Movie)
- Cosmic Ghost Rider (Starts without the Gem, will regain after a Special Attack)
- Hercules
- Ikaris
- Knull
- Silver Surfer
- Super Skrull
- Terrax
- Vision Aarkus
Several of which are common War Defenders OR in several people's Battlegrounds Decks
Now, the argument could be made that you can just use basic combos and Special 3s, but let's face it; a Mystic who can't use their ideal rotation against tough Cosmics is a deterrent to most players looking for their next R3/R4 candidate.
WHAT I PROPOSE IS ONE OF TWO THINGS
Number 1: Change it so that only certain Non-Damaging Debuffs remove the Gem (such as, ones fairly unique to Science champs). My personal choices would be Slow, Decelerate, Fatigue and Exhaustion.
Number 2: Change it so that the Gem cannot be removed when Juggernaut has Class Advantage (Rxkid75 in Vega's Discord suggested this).
I honestly think Option 1 would make Juggernaut an actual relevant defender as well as attacker, but I can absolutely live with Option 2 as it means he's strong against the tougher defenders of the Cosmic Class.
To end on a positive note, I'll just say this. If I ever get the 6 Star, I will use my Mystic 3 to 4 Rank Up Gem I've been saving from Act 7 Exploration back in March. He's that much of a fit for me.
I hope this reaches the right people's eyes, because the buff is really good but that one drawback is so limiting.
P.S. People struggling to maintain Max Momentum, I've found it's really easy if you Medium, Light, Light, Light, hold block until the opponent dashes in and use your Unstoppable to counter their hit, repeat until Special 2.
66
Comments
basically a good reason as to why juggs shouldnt get these improvements?
the over all buff is great compared to how unusable the champ was before, totally a r2 6* and maybe even r3 now. great work, and great change of pace compared to this set of buffed champs
Man, I'm just THRILLED he didn't get the JF "buff" treatment... Now he is both fun & usable. I wouldn't ask for more.
They made 1 of his drawbacks too oppressive, i dont see anything wrong with asking that to change.
I think maybe they could make it so non damaging debuffs basically "nullify" 1 or 2 unstoppable buffs when they appear or prevent him from triggering a new unstoppable for a short duration, maybe not full duration of the debuff.
Back to Juggernaut. I read when his SP3 is used the Crimson Gem of Cyrrotak can’t be removed for 20 seconds. Maybe this then should apply to his SP1 and SP2 with a lower time interval?
Say 5 seconds for SP1
10 seconds for SP2
that then sort of eliminates the non-damaging debuff issue
But defensively he's just too easy to shut off compared to his more threatening (by comparison) old self.
With his old self, if he had Unstoppable up you absolutely could not just Parry stun him at all.
I mean, he wasn't very difficult to counter then either but now it's even easier to counter him as:
- it's likely the AI will just cause his Unstoppable buffs to drop off fast
- some champs have very easy access to non-damaging debuffs (mostly Science, but even some Cosmics... and Techs with Heal Block)
Those cosmics I listed basically turn him into his Pre-Buff version.
Remember what John said; they have to be careful with buffs of older champs because that's who newer players will be fighting until they're uncollected at the absolute earliest. They have to tow a line between making him easily beaten by newer players but also a strong champ for older players.
However, and I think over time this will get mentioned more, balancing it for the beginning should not make him this bad for late game cosmics. It's too much of an oversight that was intended but will probably get more attention as people actually try those fights.
Instead, they gave us a glass cannon. He has so many weaknesses now. His flash definitely shines brighter than his playing in-game.
As for this change, I think it would be better to just limit it to armor break immune; pretty much all the cosmics you mentioned are countering him due tk armor breaks. This would fix it well enough. There's always gonna be a champion that can counter another champion in a different class.
‘when facing cosmic champions, the crimson gem of cyttorak grows stronger, temporarily reducing the ability accuracy of opponents by 100% whenever they attempt to land a personal debuff’
This removes his complete inability to counter cosmic champions while still being vulnerable to nodes so as to not overtune him too much. Parry stun is also (to my knowledge) not considered a personal debuff, so he still stays relatively simple on defence for newer accounts.