The kickout problems

Shake_a_Quake

A couple of days back, i saw a post on the forums, regarding something having to do with being unfairly kicked out of an alliance.

While, fortunately not having gone through with something like that, myself. This seems like a pretty serious problem. I'm sure, all of you who whole-heartedly participated in aw and aq, would feel bad if you were kicked out of an alliance, our of spite, disagreements, or just pure immaturity. And that makes it worse, if you have played well with the alliance for aw, and are keeping a lookout for the generous war rewards.

Someone suggested a mechanic. Maybe you could mandatorily give 2/3warning which have a certain cooldown period, before finally kicking someone out....? Or any suggestions at all are welcome. I'm sure none of you would want to be a victim to this problem

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Cano29848

The warning system could work, but I might add to at least have the leader an officer if it is the officer doing the kicking or at least 2 officers . If the leader kick you then you should have at least 1 warning. Or maybe they should be able to not let join in in aq or aw if a warning has been sent

LordSmasher

Nah. If someone has to go they just have to go. Gets toxic otherwise.

GodOfWar

Happens mostly after aw seasons. So either distribute rewards to players, irrespective of whether they are still part of that alliance or not. Or put a cooldown on kick feature after last war of aw season.

SirGamesBond

This is what happened to the guy who's post you are referring to. Absolute toxic guy who deserved the kick. He was toxic in forums too.

But he did his wars and support gave him the rewards.

The kick posts are common after a season, but the numbers are not high, therefore there is no reason to make specific rules for it.
Support is capable enough to handle these situations and help the effected with their rewards.

Shake_a_Quake

Cano29848 said:

The warning system could work, but I might add to at least have the leader an officer if it is the officer doing the kicking or at least 2 officers . If the leader kick you then you should have at least 1 warning. Or maybe they should be able to not let join in in aq or aw if a warning has been sent

I agree, maybe this could be eased out into something more elaborative.

Shake_a_Quake

@GodOfWar yah, but the pre-requisite should be that it was an unfair kick. Or they mandatorily did 5 wars. Or perhaps, you can carry on your progression to another alliance, and maybe you don't need to do 5 wars, but just 3?

Shake_a_Quake

@SirGamesBond i do not know the history of the person, or whomever it is that you are referring to. God forbid, you end up on kicked side.

The support already has a lot to do, with the amount of increased bugs in the game. A mechanism can ease that out. It is just not fair, that specifically someone who has supported their share, got no slice of the rewards.

A progression transfer system can come handy, or the kick cooldown or dual/triple intervention can be implemented.

RonSwanson

Shake_a_Quake said:

@SirGamesBond i do not know the history of the person, or whomever it is that you are referring to. God forbid, you end up on kicked side.

lol sure....

Shake_a_Quake

@RonSwanson you can either be productive, or choose not to reply. Have the day you deserve :⁠-⁠)

SirGamesBond

Shake_a_Quake said:

@SirGamesBond i do not know the history of the person, or whomever it is that you are referring to. God forbid, you end up on kicked side.

The support already has a lot to do, with the amount of increased bugs in the game. A mechanism can ease that out. It is just not fair, that specifically someone who has supported their share, got no slice of the rewards.

A progression transfer system can come handy, or the kick cooldown or dual/triple intervention can be implemented.

I won't as I'm not toxic, rather I'm respectful of
everyone and thankful of officers and leaders for doing what they do. Don't want to brag but I'm an asset too, scores decently high in alliance modes, helpful when I can, have respect towards fellow people, I do what I'm asked to without blinking. And most important thing, I'm not a Drick.


Your system wouldn't work if someone have a life emergency and have to leave mid war.
A player kicked not only effects War, it effects top AQ too, which I'm a part of. One single missed node in AQ costs ranks and rewards.
If someone couldn't join AQ/AW, why does other 29 members have to pay the price?
You want a kick immunity , and the game is Not going to give such power to anyone.

If you missed out, talk to the support, atleast support is doing this correctly and compensating the affected.

-About the post you are referred to.
There was only one post after previous war season which got forum attention, it's not due to kick, but due to the person being toxic and disrespectful. He got banned in forums because of his continuous toxicity. We can't see his comments now becuz of the ban, otherwise you would have known.

Shake_a_Quake

@SirGamesBond im not in favour of a kick immunity, and definitely not siding with those who get carried on by other's hard work. I do know for a fact, that the support is bombarded with other requests, and this would rather ease it, for them as well as the players.

We are both taking different sides of the coin, and you're not wrong, where you are coming from. But, how would it feel, if an alliance leader/officer kicked you off by mistake, while intending to kick some other person? It's not fair, i don't know bout you, but it isn't. You atleast deserve a fair warning before you get kicked.

And, i have mostly met good people on the game, but there have been some who can be up to this naughty business for the hek of it, and no one genuine deserves to suffer because of that.

SirGamesBond

If you got kicked by mistake, your leader/officer will submit a ticket for you, then the support asks back the leader to let the member submit a ticket referencing the leaders ticket.
Support have been sorting these things out for quiet some time now.

If someone got kicked:
-unfairly, support will help them.
-by mistake, support will help them.

And the reason why am I replying to this post is that I think, 'getting kicked' issue is not on kabam's table anymore.

Players getting kicked before rewards is not new. We have finished 41 seasons. And Support helping with these situations is the solution for this issue. Support didn't do anything before but now They take care of not only AW but for BGs and AQ too.

Chief_prime

Every end of seasons we get these Warning suggestions. They're bad for many reasons, I'll just cite a couple of examples why.

You can have a chat before you invite ppl in and they reassure you multiple times how great they are, then come time for action they simply don't join AQ and AW. Or they join super late. Or or they join and don't move - in short you see straight away you picked a bad apple and you need to replace them as asap with someone hopefully a lot better.

Or one day, someone who seemed completely pleasant and reasonable, suddenly flies off the handle and verbally attacks another team mate, or starts spitting out horrendous opinions.

Leadership must continue to be able to remove members when they think they should.

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Shake_a_Quake

@Chief_prime we can keep taking sides here, you can cite examples, i can cite examples. It's not bringing us to a middle ground....i would still stand by those who get unfairly kicked. I'm not even bothered about the bad apples, I'm just concerned about the ones that put effort and still got the boot. @SirGamesBond said that, this issue is being aptly addressed by the support, and is now off the table for kabam..... Even if it is an age-old ritual, and off the table, doesn't mean that it is not unfair to the genuine cases.

Y'all just mentioned that you always hear these "getting the boot" posts after aw. Which is exactly the problem. Why should we keep hearing them, even after 41 seasons? It's a problem, that needs to be addressed. Yes, bad apples deserve to be kicked, but atleast consider giving them a warning of getting kicked in the least? Or have the power to kick, be distributed between more than 1 person?

If bad players exist, so do bad officers and leaders. There ain't any exceptions here.

Shake_a_Quake

I just want y'all to once consider, being the person who got kicked for no fault of their own. Why bombard an already exhausted support with requests like these, when they can be prevented altogether?

Pikolu

Shake_a_Quake said:

I just want y'all to once consider, being the person who got kicked for no fault of their own. Why bombard an already exhausted support with requests like these, when they can be prevented altogether?

Because when someone starts leeching because they know they have a week or whatever time frame they get of free rewards, I will want to contact support to get the person kicked so I can bring in someone else who will actually participate.

While it does suck to be unfairly kicked, it sucks more to remove the ability to kick toxic people.

xNig

Odds are, there are more toxic members compared to officers. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Shake_a_Quake

@Pikolu again, I'm not asking to remove the kick option. I'm just asking to either give a warning, or have the option to kick, be distributed between more than 1 person. That would probably even it out. Obviously people should be kicked, but in a manner that is fair

mgj0630

@Shake_a_Quake I think some of the disagreement you're getting may be with the assertion of fair vs unfair. I think this would be better viewed as justified vs unjustified, and in that, you may not know if booting someone was justified or not.

Our alliance is very laid back with AW, and frankly, AQ as well. The only real rule we have is that members be kind to one another and that AQ participation is mandatory. Our guidance is that three missed AQ days, without notice (cause the majority of us still have real lives) is grounds to be kicked.

If a player completes his 5 wars for season rewards, but then misses those three days of AQ, he/she is getting booted, and it's completely justified as those expectations were laid out in advance. I shouldn't have to provide some sort of in-game warning prior to kicking a member, cause the warning was given the moment they joined us.

As a point of courtesy, I personally try not to do that, but I also won't tolerate free loaders, so if they get a boot at the end of the season for lack of participation in other areas, that's completely justified.

Now as for an unjustified boot, odds are that will only end poorly for the alliance leader in the long run, as people will stop joining, and when people stop joining, it's not long before other members start leaving cause they're missing out on alliance rewards they may receive in a more stable alliance.

Moral of the story....an alliance leader should be able to boot anyone at anytime.

tusharNair

the real question is why be in a alliance to get the rewards if you are qualified, what's the point ? is it the fear of members bouncing off ally after doing 5 wars ? how often does that happen

Shake_a_Quake

@mgj0630 man, the disagree spam gang must really be punching the air rn, lmao.

That aside, i agree with everything that you have said. But, not all alliances stick to, or even mention their pre-requisites. Some people get kicked out of spite/fun, and sometimes even by mistake. Yes a leader should have the power to kick whomever and whenever they want, but just be fair....to atleast the genuine ones.

Nobody likes free-loaders, but a dude who played the life out of supporting an alliance through aq/aw deserves some leeway, imho. How will it end bad, for the alliance leader, anyway? What if this boot incident happened just enough times, to not be considered a lot in numbers? How much bad-mouthing can you do to an alliance, who listens random peeps on global?

tusharNair

mgj0630 said:

@Shake_a_Quake I think some of the disagreement you're getting may be with the assertion of fair vs unfair. I think this would be better viewed as justified vs unjustified, and in that, you may not know if booting someone was justified or not.

Our alliance is very laid back with AW, and frankly, AQ as well. The only real rule we have is that members be kind to one another and that AQ participation is mandatory. Our guidance is that three missed AQ days, without notice (cause the majority of us still have real lives) is grounds to be kicked.

If a player completes his 5 wars for season rewards, but then misses those three days of AQ, he/she is getting booted, and it's completely justified as those expectations were laid out in advance. I shouldn't have to provide some sort of in-game warning prior to kicking a member, cause the warning was given the moment they joined us.

As a point of courtesy, I personally try not to do that, but I also won't tolerate free loaders, so if they get a boot at the end of the season for lack of participation in other areas, that's completely justified.

Now as for an unjustified boot, odds are that will only end poorly for the alliance leader in the long run, as people will stop joining, and when people stop joining, it's not long before other members start leaving cause they're missing out on alliance rewards they may receive in a more stable alliance.

Moral of the story....an alliance leader should be able to boot anyone at anytime.

I agree, Leader should have all the rights to add remove anyone anytime but should not have any right to chose whom to get the rewards whom not

GroundedWisdom

Unfortunately, this issue has been brought up many times over the years and it's a matter of being an in-house issue. Alliances are responsible for who they choose, and Players are responsible for finding Alliances they can trust. It's disappointing when someone is kicked without Rewards, but there isn't much of a solution that doesn't create larger problems.

Shake_a_Quake

@GroundedWisdom
I agree, maybe I'm trying to fight something that probably wouldn't budge. But what's the harm in trying, eh?
I do wanna know tho, how distributing the 'kick' power, between more than 1 person, or giving a fair warning to the one being kicked, would create a problem? And i would love to hear, if you got any other solution

GroundedWisdom

Shake_a_Quake said:

@GroundedWisdom
I agree, maybe I'm trying to fight something that probably wouldn't budge. But what's the harm in trying, eh?
I do wanna know tho, how distributing the 'kick' power, between more than 1 person, or giving a fair warning to the one being kicked, would create a problem? And i would love to hear, if you got any other solution

A similar suggestion was offered some time back where the Officers had to vote before kicking. The problem is, as a Leader, it undermines the ability to control your Alliance. It's hard to say.

I_tell_no_tales_1

Shake_a_Quake said:

@mgj0630 man, the disagree spam gang must really be punching the air rn, lmao.

That aside, i agree with everything that you have said. But, not all alliances stick to, or even mention their pre-requisites. Some people get kicked out of spite/fun, and sometimes even by mistake. Yes a leader should have the power to kick whomever and whenever they want, but just be fair....to atleast the genuine ones.

Nobody likes free-loaders, but a dude who played the life out of supporting an alliance through aq/aw deserves some leeway, imho. How will it end bad, for the alliance leader, anyway? What if this boot incident happened just enough times, to not be considered a lot in numbers? How much bad-mouthing can you do to an alliance, who listens random peeps on global?

I kinda agree with you here
I was in a powerful alliance (gold 2 that season) and got kicked after the last war
I had participated in all wars and had pulled my weight pretty well(I wasn't as strong as I am now but was still able to get kills and not give free deaths)
Never submitted a ticket cause I didn't know that we can submit tickets for such issues
Never got the rewards and left the game for like 5 months after that incident cause it's frustrating
@SirGamesBond while you are saying that many people submit tickets and make forum posts about it, there is also a large group of people who don't know what to do in that situation and they either take the L or leave the game
So I agree with the OP
IMO Alliance members should be getting rewards individually even if they are kicked
Like replace the number of wars you have to join with X number of kills you have to get to qualify for rewards
And the rewards are only given out based on the last alliance you were kicked out of or are still in during that season
This removes the flaw of people joining and not participating in the wars as well as people being kicked out unjustifiably




Maybe I have made some spelling made some spelling mistakes but I think you get what I am saying

Shake_a_Quake

@I_tell_no_tales_1 yes, but they should only apply for genuine cases, not free-loaders. My only point being, yes, the leaders are entitled to kick, but maybe make sure atleast 2 officers also have a say in it, or some warning of sorts is given.

It sucks, to be a person who put efforts and missed out on crucial war rewards.

mgj0630

@Shake_a_Quake Let me offer an extreme counter to your argument for some delayed boot process...be it some form of in-game warning, or a vote amongst officers.

Let's say I get a message from some random guy saying he just fought a member of my alliance in BGs and was clearly using mods. I'd take that with a grain of salt initially, but pay very close attention to that member in other content. If I saw him beat a defender like Wiccan or Rintrah using someone like Hulking, and taking no damage, he's obviously cheating and I want him out of my alliance ASAP to mitigate damage to the alliance as a whole. I don't want to wait for all of the officers to vote to boot him.

Again, I acknowledge it's an extreme circumstance, but what protection can be offered for your scenario that still has exceptions for something extreme?

I can't think of one, which brings us back to square one. You have to find an alliance you can trust. Perhaps not one with high ambitions either, cause while I don't dabble in it, I think I've heard some of the top tier AQ alliances will boot folks if their prestige falls (something that isn't entirely in your control when a new high prestige champ drops). I would also be cautious about alliances with 10-15 people. Odds are higher that they have less stability.