**WINTER OF WOE - BONUS OBJECTIVE POINT**
As previously announced, the team will be distributing an additional point toward milestones to anyone who completed the Absorbing Man fight in the first step of the Winter of Woe.
This point will be distributed at a later time as it requires the team to pull and analyze data.
The timeline has not been set, but work has started.

Increase The Availability Of Revives!

FrostGiantLordFrostGiantLord Posts: 1,510 ★★★★
edited May 2023 in General Discussion
Last month, the Apothecary was added, forever changing the revive meta, shifting it from revive farming to a specialised quest, which guarantees revives. However, it was at an extremely slow rate, at around 2 revives per day when exploring both difficulties.This has proven difficult to deal with, as the bosses these days require way more materials than one revive, and buying revives with units just isn't an option for some people, particularly f2p players. In order for this to be an effective and meaningful change to MCOC gameplay, it needs to be buffed to levels appropriate for the current gameplay meta.

There is a simple solution to this: simply adding more difficulties to the Apothecary. Right now, there are two difficulties, each granting one revive each, some health potions, and a chance to get an extra revive. Higher difficulties could simply give more revives per run, and bring some consistency to the quest, as all the other daily quests have 4 difficulties. One suggestion is making higher difficulties harder in comparison to the difficulty of other daily quests, as revives are much less accessible than items like catalysts and ISO-8, meaning it would just undo the revive farming changes already made, which, in my opinion, downgrades the game from a fun, interesting and unique experience into just another grinding game.

The key, however, isn't buffing the Apothecary, though that is a solution. Rather, it is to increase the availability of revives in the game. This can be done through a lot of ways, whether it is buffing the Apothecary, decreasing the Unit cost of revives, or adding them as rewards in the EQ. Revives are one of the most important aspects of late-game MCOC, yet they are surprisingly hard to obtain for such a staple of the game.
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Comments

  • FrostGiantLordFrostGiantLord Posts: 1,510 ★★★★
    I'm just surprised how difficult revives and health potions are to obtain, especially when compared to the other core materials of MCOC gameplay. ISO, Gold and Catalysts aren't nearly as hard to obtain.
  • MackeyMackey Posts: 1,524 ★★★★★
    edited May 2023
    Ackbar67 said:

    Mackey said:

    I mean... That's 14 revives every week, plus the ability to grind Arena to buy them with units. What content are you facing that you need to prepare for in less than two weeks?

    You actually only get 1 revive from apothecary guaranteed per day, not 2. So it's a definite 7 revives per week with a chance at getting more from the paths in both apothecary difficulties.
    22 hour events give an l2 revive as the third milestone, if you're farming revives you can always get 2 per day
    While you're not wrong the OP was talking about apothecary, they said nothing about 22 hour events so it is 1 per day from there guaranteed.

    Plus we have always gotten 1 revive from them events, so effectively all they've done is remove the farming option and gave us 1 revive per day
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,771 ★★★★★

    I'm just surprised how difficult revives and health potions are to obtain, especially when compared to the other core materials of MCOC gameplay. ISO, Gold and Catalysts aren't nearly as hard to obtain.

    Where in Act 6? What is the roster that you're working with?
  • ForevernarwhalsForevernarwhals Posts: 16

    Which boss is it that you are saying takes so many revives?

    Currently stuck on act 6 due to a lack of revives. As an f2p, buying Units isn't an option either.
    I was also a ftp stuck on act 6, and I didn't spend a single unit on revives for my entire run through. Just keep practicing the fights. Don't even use your free revives, it's a waste. Use every drop of Energy you have, but don't waste a single unit on revives. Except for the bosses of course, Cap IW and the Grandmaster both stole 6+ revives from me, but other than that you should just be running the quests over and over again until you understand them enough to solo them.
    How has this gotten disagrees? This is what you should do. Don't waste units when the energy is free. If you get stuck start it over and work on the fight. Don't be wasting units and revives to grind through content, use them help get over the hump.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    edited May 2023

    Which boss is it that you are saying takes so many revives?

    Currently stuck on act 6 due to a lack of revives. As an f2p, buying Units isn't an option either.
    I was also a ftp stuck on act 6, and I didn't spend a single unit on revives for my entire run through. Just keep practicing the fights. Don't even use your free revives, it's a waste. Use every drop of Energy you have, but don't waste a single unit on revives. Except for the bosses of course, Cap IW and the Grandmaster both stole 6+ revives from me, but other than that you should just be running the quests over and over again until you understand them enough to solo them.
    How has this gotten disagrees? This is what you should do. Don't waste units when the energy is free. If you get stuck start it over and work on the fight. Don't be wasting units and revives to grind through content, use them help get over the hump.
    Disagrees probably because 6+ revives isn't what very average players spend. They spend 25-40 revives on the grandmaster first time easy. So while 6+ is technically correct I imagine it's because a lot of players (myself included) spent more than 6.
    Yeah, but I only got to the point of spending less revives than the average by rerunning fights over and over again. Over the course of my account I've spent weeks on 5.2.4, 5.2.6, 5.4, 6.1.1, and much more without spending an item because I ran those quests until the amount of mistakes I made were minimized. Maybe it's not a great strategy for anyone lacking the time, but if you got time and free compensation energy refills, it goes a long way. After spending all that time, I got through 6.2-6.4 no sweat (except for that Cap IW boss fight, hate that guy). It's not like talent's got anything to do with it, it just takes practice to really understand your roster and aspects of the game
  • PikoluPikolu Posts: 6,163 Guardian
    7714dtl said:

    Which boss is it that you are saying takes so many revives?

    Carina challenges such as the ones that require 4* teams of **** champions making Labrynth runs
    That's not an act 6 boss
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,337 Guardian
    7714dtl said:

    Pikolu said:

    7714dtl said:

    Which boss is it that you are saying takes so many revives?

    Carina challenges such as the ones that require 4* teams of **** champions making Labrynth runs
    That's not an act 6 boss
    You are right. And anyone running into act 6 issues needs more roster development and/or practice.

    But while we are commenting on the lack of availability of revives in the game I thought i would throw out a situation where it applies.
    This presumes everyone is supposed to be able to do Carinas. Or even anyone.

    Originally the intent of the so-called Everest content was that it was supposed to be virtually impossible to do on its face. It would require players to practice strategies, adjust roster, and find the optimal solutions to those problems. They became essentially farmed content with big pots of gold at the end. But they are supposed to push players to their limits. Without the ability to farm essentially unlimited revives, some Carinas challenges, specifically the ones with rarity caps, have now become impossible to simply brute force. But I'll bet the absolute best players using the absolute best strategies and with best play could do them in 68 revives. If not today, then eventually.

    Now maybe most players would not even attempt such content if it had such high difficulty. But that's why it is called Everest content, and not Magic Mountain content. It isn't really worth climbing Mount Everest either, except for those who want to say they climbed Mount Everest.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    7714dtl said:

    DNA3000 said:

    7714dtl said:

    Pikolu said:

    7714dtl said:

    Which boss is it that you are saying takes so many revives?

    Carina challenges such as the ones that require 4* teams of **** champions making Labrynth runs
    That's not an act 6 boss
    You are right. And anyone running into act 6 issues needs more roster development and/or practice.

    But while we are commenting on the lack of availability of revives in the game I thought i would throw out a situation where it applies.
    This presumes everyone is supposed to be able to do Carinas. Or even anyone.

    Originally the intent of the so-called Everest content was that it was supposed to be virtually impossible to do on its face. It would require players to practice strategies, adjust roster, and find the optimal solutions to those problems. They became essentially farmed content with big pots of gold at the end. But they are supposed to push players to their limits. Without the ability to farm essentially unlimited revives, some Carinas challenges, specifically the ones with rarity caps, have now become impossible to simply brute force. But I'll bet the absolute best players using the absolute best strategies and with best play could do them in 68 revives. If not today, then eventually.

    Now maybe most players would not even attempt such content if it had such high difficulty. But that's why it is called Everest content, and not Magic Mountain content. It isn't really worth climbing Mount Everest either, except for those who want to say they climbed Mount Everest.
    So content was designed not to be played, makes perfect sense.

    Also roster developement? Exactly how do you develop rosters for a trup through labrynth using only 4*s that requires only inhumans or canadiens like there are a ton of options or something?

    But hey its just a matter of a little skill and practice right?
    The content was designed to be played for fun. A lot of players seem to forget that fact.

    The Carinas Challenges are meant to get players out of the habit of using Herc and Doom to solve all of their problems. These missions require you to develop your roster of garbage low tier champions and use them to solve a problem. And yes, it is a matter of practice, and skill comes from that.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,337 Guardian
    7714dtl said:

    DNA3000 said:

    7714dtl said:

    Pikolu said:

    7714dtl said:

    Which boss is it that you are saying takes so many revives?

    Carina challenges such as the ones that require 4* teams of **** champions making Labrynth runs
    That's not an act 6 boss
    You are right. And anyone running into act 6 issues needs more roster development and/or practice.

    But while we are commenting on the lack of availability of revives in the game I thought i would throw out a situation where it applies.
    This presumes everyone is supposed to be able to do Carinas. Or even anyone.

    Originally the intent of the so-called Everest content was that it was supposed to be virtually impossible to do on its face. It would require players to practice strategies, adjust roster, and find the optimal solutions to those problems. They became essentially farmed content with big pots of gold at the end. But they are supposed to push players to their limits. Without the ability to farm essentially unlimited revives, some Carinas challenges, specifically the ones with rarity caps, have now become impossible to simply brute force. But I'll bet the absolute best players using the absolute best strategies and with best play could do them in 68 revives. If not today, then eventually.

    Now maybe most players would not even attempt such content if it had such high difficulty. But that's why it is called Everest content, and not Magic Mountain content. It isn't really worth climbing Mount Everest either, except for those who want to say they climbed Mount Everest.
    So content was designed not to be played, makes perfect sense.


    It was designed to be strategized around, and practiced. If you only play things you know you can beat the first time, then for you it was not designed to be played.

    Also, most Everest content is not going to be played by most of the players. Only the tiniest fraction of the playerbase has, or ever will, complete the Abyss. One of the arguments *against* end game content in general is only a tiny percentage of the playerbase will ever benefit from it, because the vast majority of the players of the game will never step foot in it, much less beat it or enjoy its rewards. On a proportional basis, the devs have spent far more time on end game content as a percentage of total dev time than the percentage of players who will ever play it. Maybe we should stop doing that, if "content not designed to be played" is as silly as you seem to be implying.


    Also roster developement? Exactly how do you develop rosters for a trup through labrynth using only 4*s that requires only inhumans or canadiens like there are a ton of options or something?


    I was speaking generally, which is why I said "Everest content" and not "Carinas." But even for Carinas, do you have the optimal options? Do you know what the optimal options are? Do you have them all maximized? Do you *also* have the perfect playing strategy to go along with the optimal teams? Are you *sure* that is in fact the optimal combination? Nothing more to be learned? Intercept wasn't a thing until it was. Backdraft intercept wasn't a thing until it was. People have figured out all sorts of ways to beat content, but then suddenly in 2023 we figured out the last thing, and now the learning curve is over?

    Also, are you certain no new champs will ever come out ever again that might make the content easier?


    But hey its just a matter of a little skill and practice right?


    No, the problem appears to be that anything that takes more than a little skill and practice is broken. Because if average tier players playing average difficulty content have trouble, they just need to get good, but when high tier players playing high tier difficulty content have trouble, it is the content that is broken.

  • MackeyMackey Posts: 1,524 ★★★★★
    Don't believe I've seen or heard of anyone beating some of the 4* carina challenges with little item usage. It is impossible to do with all the skill and practice in the world.
  • GogiGogi Posts: 394 ★★★

    Last month, the Apothecary was added, forever changing the revive meta, shifting it from revive farming to a specialised quest, which guarantees revives. However, it was at an extremely slow rate, at around 2 revives per day when exploring both difficulties.This has proven difficult to deal with, as the bosses these days require way more materials than one revive, and buying revives with units just isn't an option for some people, particularly f2p players. In order for this to be an effective and meaningful change to MCOC gameplay, it needs to be buffed to levels appropriate for the current gameplay meta.

    There is a simple solution to this: simply adding more difficulties to the Apothecary. Right now, there are two difficulties, each granting one revive each, some health potions, and a chance to get an extra revive. Higher difficulties could simply give more revives per run, and bring some consistency to the quest, as all the other daily quests have 4 difficulties. One suggestion is making higher difficulties harder in comparison to the difficulty of other daily quests, as revives are much less accessible than items like catalysts and ISO-8, meaning it would just undo the revive farming changes already made, which, in my opinion, downgrades the game from a fun, interesting and unique experience into just another grinding game.

    The key, however, isn't buffing the Apothecary, though that is a solution. Rather, it is to increase the availability of revives in the game. This can be done through a lot of ways, whether it is buffing the Apothecary, decreasing the Unit cost of revives, or adding them as rewards in the EQ. Revives are one of the most important aspects of late-game MCOC, yet they are surprisingly hard to obtain for such a staple of the game.

    Well you should invest your units in meaningful stuffs such as revives, health pots & masteries etc.. that is what they are intended for. offers and such is the last thing you should waste them on. As many have already said you get enough revievs/week just from apothecary, I don't think you need 100+ revives to tackle some content especially for act6. Good luck with your content clearing :)
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