**KNOWN AW ISSUE**
Please be aware, there is a known issue with Saga badging when observing the AW map.
The team have found the source of the issue and will be updating with our next build.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
**KNOWN BG ISSUE**
We are aware of an issue with the seeding for the beginning of the BG season.
We are adding rewards to higher progression brackets to offset the additional grind.
More information here.
**Arcade is being extra tricky with his Murder Box...**
It appears Arcade has been non-cooperative in his approach to this month's side quest and presented his clues in a nonsensical order. Lucky you, Summoners, we have our best and brightest on the case and those clues should now be a lot more straightforward. While messing around in Arcade's files we came across a phrase, highlighted and bolded, with sparkles and pointy arrows: "the abode for the dead" ... Maybe that will help you along the way!
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Comments

  • Options
    LordSmasherLordSmasher Posts: 1,434 ★★★★★

    The biggest alliance in the game currently has half their players on the bench.

    They either:
    1. Cheated their way to get those 5mill+ accounts
    2. Spent a lot of money to get 5mill+ accounts plus did some botting on the side to guarantee the featured champs

    Given they were given 7 days bans, which of the above is more likely to true?

    Get out of here with you logic and common sense! What these people don't get, as the proudly proclaim that modders don't spend anything, that either way it's a lose-lose.

    1. Either Kabam let them cheat their ways into massive accounts for years, or
    2. Kabam gave their biggest whales a rather large slap on the wrist.

    A week suspension at the top of the game means your war season is screwed. Which is why I've been quite impressed with Kabam taking this step. They didn't have to do it so I think the community should temper our anger a bit and appreciate when Kabam takes a step in the right direction.

    As far as the people who are spouting nonsense on this forum, they have already become memes across the community :smiley:
    People using Mods aren't going to spend money. That much should be obvious to even the most bipartisan perspectives.
    You seem to be pushing some type of narrative about Kabam allowing people to cheat. Good luck with that.
    Are you suggesting that half of the players in the biggest alliance in the game got their purely by botting/modding and not spending a cent?
    Never referenced the highest Alliance at all, really. I'm talking about the people running Mods in BGs. They're not about to spend money. That's why they're running a Mod with low Accounts.
    Aren't we talking about the player at the top of the BG leaderboard that was botting in arenas and whether their spending influenced the punishment?
    That's the post you responded to. Did you read it?
  • Options
    StatureStature Posts: 426 ★★★
    edited June 2023

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    Not quite that. It's a symbiotic relationship. Servers cost money. Kabam has to pay salaries, taxes, healthcare costs, etc. Where does that money come from? There are no ads in the game. If Kabam made Sigil a requirement for everyone, would you play?

    If you want to see things like this go away, the majority are going to have to pitch in. If Kabam wasn't so reliant on the whales, they'd probably have less incentive to treat them with kid gloves.

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
    You must not live in the real world then.
    Kabam is funded through Netmarble. MCOC is the 2nd strongest title under Netmarbles umbrella.


    All that money coming in from other games is what pays for the costs at Kabam. Healthcare and all that is either through Netmarble or on their own.

    Not like any of this matters because facts don't matter to you but everything here that you've said, is completely false.

    Modders have no reason to spend money.
    Wow... I don't even know what to say to this. Kabam has no need to make any income because Netmarble gets money from their infinite money tree.

    Got it.
    Kabam
    Doesn't
    Make
    Any
    Money
    Period

    All sales goes to Netmarble. Netmarble in turn reinvests all their revenue to their games, including bills and whatnot. You obviously don't know how a business works or subsidiaries.
    Disclaimer: OP's post is ridiculous. The company is obviously doing coming down hard on cheating in the game, they have shared so many of these updates with the community over the last few months.

    But what is the point of this particular line of defense?

    First of all, with respect to technicalities, no subsidiary in a corporate works that way. The money doesn't all go into the parent company and then costs are reimbursed back. If this is a subsidiary, it almost certainly has its own revenues, P&L, balance sheet and cashflows. What you see reported is just a consolidated financial statement. There is an underlying standalone financial statement for the company. The consolidated statement is for, simplistic purposes, an aggregation of the financial statements of all the subsidiaries. Kabam certainly makes money, probably funds its own costs and is likely solvent as a standalone entity. The way most corporates are structured, subsidiaries have their own management teams and boards, who drive all key decisions for the company.

    More importantly, when people talk about the company's revenues, they are referring the the money generated by the game. This is obviously substantial and real (9% of revenues, second largest game in the portfolio). The pedantic observation on whether the subsidiary or the parent controls the revenues is irrelevant. Operationally, there is a particular team which is responsible to the game development and manages the budget for it. It hardly matters what corporate logo is shown on their business card.

    The only reason I'm contesting this is because I've seen this argument for anytime it is suggested that the company could invest in a particular solution. It isn't a valid argument based on how real life companies work.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,360 ★★★★★

    The biggest alliance in the game currently has half their players on the bench.

    They either:
    1. Cheated their way to get those 5mill+ accounts
    2. Spent a lot of money to get 5mill+ accounts plus did some botting on the side to guarantee the featured champs

    Given they were given 7 days bans, which of the above is more likely to true?

    Get out of here with you logic and common sense! What these people don't get, as the proudly proclaim that modders don't spend anything, that either way it's a lose-lose.

    1. Either Kabam let them cheat their ways into massive accounts for years, or
    2. Kabam gave their biggest whales a rather large slap on the wrist.

    A week suspension at the top of the game means your war season is screwed. Which is why I've been quite impressed with Kabam taking this step. They didn't have to do it so I think the community should temper our anger a bit and appreciate when Kabam takes a step in the right direction.

    As far as the people who are spouting nonsense on this forum, they have already become memes across the community :smiley:
    People using Mods aren't going to spend money. That much should be obvious to even the most bipartisan perspectives.
    You seem to be pushing some type of narrative about Kabam allowing people to cheat. Good luck with that.
    Are you suggesting that half of the players in the biggest alliance in the game got their purely by botting/modding and not spending a cent?
    Never referenced the highest Alliance at all, really. I'm talking about the people running Mods in BGs. They're not about to spend money. That's why they're running a Mod with low Accounts.
    Aren't we talking about the player at the top of the BG leaderboard that was botting in arenas and whether their spending influenced the punishment?
    That's the post you responded to. Did you read it?
    Spending doesn't reduce punishments. That's not a thing. Period. I'm not circling around the same narrative endlessly.
  • Options
    LordSmasherLordSmasher Posts: 1,434 ★★★★★

    The biggest alliance in the game currently has half their players on the bench.

    They either:
    1. Cheated their way to get those 5mill+ accounts
    2. Spent a lot of money to get 5mill+ accounts plus did some botting on the side to guarantee the featured champs

    Given they were given 7 days bans, which of the above is more likely to true?

    Get out of here with you logic and common sense! What these people don't get, as the proudly proclaim that modders don't spend anything, that either way it's a lose-lose.

    1. Either Kabam let them cheat their ways into massive accounts for years, or
    2. Kabam gave their biggest whales a rather large slap on the wrist.

    A week suspension at the top of the game means your war season is screwed. Which is why I've been quite impressed with Kabam taking this step. They didn't have to do it so I think the community should temper our anger a bit and appreciate when Kabam takes a step in the right direction.

    As far as the people who are spouting nonsense on this forum, they have already become memes across the community :smiley:
    People using Mods aren't going to spend money. That much should be obvious to even the most bipartisan perspectives.
    You seem to be pushing some type of narrative about Kabam allowing people to cheat. Good luck with that.
    Are you suggesting that half of the players in the biggest alliance in the game got their purely by botting/modding and not spending a cent?
    Never referenced the highest Alliance at all, really. I'm talking about the people running Mods in BGs. They're not about to spend money. That's why they're running a Mod with low Accounts.
    Aren't we talking about the player at the top of the BG leaderboard that was botting in arenas and whether their spending influenced the punishment?
    That's the post you responded to. Did you read it?
    Spending doesn't reduce punishments. That's not a thing. Period. I'm not circling around the same narrative endlessly.
    It will have a more Orwellian term, something like "Account Standing". "Account Standing" reduces punishments.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    Not quite that. It's a symbiotic relationship. Servers cost money. Kabam has to pay salaries, taxes, healthcare costs, etc. Where does that money come from? There are no ads in the game. If Kabam made Sigil a requirement for everyone, would you play?

    If you want to see things like this go away, the majority are going to have to pitch in. If Kabam wasn't so reliant on the whales, they'd probably have less incentive to treat them with kid gloves.

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
    You must not live in the real world then.
    Kabam is funded through Netmarble. MCOC is the 2nd strongest title under Netmarbles umbrella.


    All that money coming in from other games is what pays for the costs at Kabam. Healthcare and all that is either through Netmarble or on their own.

    Not like any of this matters because facts don't matter to you but everything here that you've said, is completely false.

    Modders have no reason to spend money.
    Wow... I don't even know what to say to this. Kabam has no need to make any income because Netmarble gets money from their infinite money tree.

    Got it.
    Kabam
    Doesn't
    Make
    Any
    Money
    Period

    All sales goes to Netmarble. Netmarble in turn reinvests all their revenue to their games, including bills and whatnot. You obviously don't know how a business works or subsidiaries.
    Disclaimer: OP's post is ridiculous. The company is obviously doing coming down hard on cheating in the game, they have shared so many of these updates with the community over the last few months.

    But what is the point of this particular line of defense?

    First of all, with respect to technicalities, no subsidiary in a corporate works that way. The money doesn't all go into the parent company and then costs are reimbursed back. If this is a subsidiary, it almost certainly has its own revenues, P&L, balance sheet and cashflows. What you see reported is just a consolidated financial statement. There is an underlying standalone financial statement for the company. The consolidated statement is for, simplistic purposes, an aggregation of the financial statements of all the subsidiaries. Kabam certainly makes money, probably funds its own costs and is likely solvent as a standalone entity. The way most corporates are structured, subsidiaries have their own management teams and boards, who drive all key decisions for the company.

    More importantly, when people talk about the company's revenues, they are referring the the money generated by the game. This is obviously substantial and real (9% of revenues, second largest game in the portfolio). The pedantic observation on whether the subsidiary or the parent controls the revenues is irrelevant. Operationally, there is a particular team which is responsible to the game development and manages the budget for it. It hardly matters what corporate logo is shown on their business card.

    The only reason I'm contesting this is because I've seen this argument for anytime it is suggested that the company could invest in a particular solution. It isn't a valid argument based on how real life companies work.
    I don't know if subsidiaries is the right term but pretty sure Miike has confirmed what I've said and more so what DNA3000 has said. I'm sure it doesn't go straight to Netmarble but I'm sure whatever their cut is, it goes to them and Kabam is left with what they need to run the studio.
  • Options
    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Stature said:

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    Not quite that. It's a symbiotic relationship. Servers cost money. Kabam has to pay salaries, taxes, healthcare costs, etc. Where does that money come from? There are no ads in the game. If Kabam made Sigil a requirement for everyone, would you play?

    If you want to see things like this go away, the majority are going to have to pitch in. If Kabam wasn't so reliant on the whales, they'd probably have less incentive to treat them with kid gloves.

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
    You must not live in the real world then.
    Kabam is funded through Netmarble. MCOC is the 2nd strongest title under Netmarbles umbrella.


    All that money coming in from other games is what pays for the costs at Kabam. Healthcare and all that is either through Netmarble or on their own.

    Not like any of this matters because facts don't matter to you but everything here that you've said, is completely false.

    Modders have no reason to spend money.
    Wow... I don't even know what to say to this. Kabam has no need to make any income because Netmarble gets money from their infinite money tree.

    Got it.
    Kabam
    Doesn't
    Make
    Any
    Money
    Period

    All sales goes to Netmarble. Netmarble in turn reinvests all their revenue to their games, including bills and whatnot. You obviously don't know how a business works or subsidiaries.
    Disclaimer: OP's post is ridiculous. The company is obviously doing coming down hard on cheating in the game, they have shared so many of these updates with the community over the last few months.

    But what is the point of this particular line of defense?

    First of all, with respect to technicalities, no subsidiary in a corporate works that way. The money doesn't all go into the parent company and then costs are reimbursed back. If this is a subsidiary, it almost certainly has its own revenues, P&L, balance sheet and cashflows. What you see reported is just a consolidated financial statement. There is an underlying standalone financial statement for the company. The consolidated statement is for, simplistic purposes, an aggregation of the financial statements of all the subsidiaries. Kabam certainly makes money, probably funds its own costs and is likely solvent as a standalone entity. The way most corporates are structured, subsidiaries have their own management teams and boards, who drive all key decisions for the company.

    More importantly, when people talk about the company's revenues, they are referring the the money generated by the game. This is obviously substantial and real (9% of revenues, second largest game in the portfolio). The pedantic observation on whether the subsidiary or the parent controls the revenues is irrelevant. Operationally, there is a particular team which is responsible to the game development and manages the budget for it. It hardly matters what corporate logo is shown on their business card.

    The only reason I'm contesting this is because I've seen this argument for anytime it is suggested that the company could invest in a particular solution. It isn't a valid argument based on how real life companies work.
    I don't know if subsidiaries is the right term but pretty sure Miike has confirmed what I've said and more so what DNA3000 has said. I'm sure it doesn't go straight to Netmarble but I'm sure whatever their cut is, it goes to them and Kabam is left with what they need to run the studio.
    I don't know what Miike confirmed and what DNA3000 said, but would like to find the quotes.
    What key words can I search?

    I have a feeling what they said is not what you understood.
  • Options
    LordSmasherLordSmasher Posts: 1,434 ★★★★★

    The biggest alliance in the game currently has half their players on the bench.

    They either:
    1. Cheated their way to get those 5mill+ accounts
    2. Spent a lot of money to get 5mill+ accounts plus did some botting on the side to guarantee the featured champs

    Given they were given 7 days bans, which of the above is more likely to true?

    Get out of here with you logic and common sense! What these people don't get, as the proudly proclaim that modders don't spend anything, that either way it's a lose-lose.

    1. Either Kabam let them cheat their ways into massive accounts for years, or
    2. Kabam gave their biggest whales a rather large slap on the wrist.

    A week suspension at the top of the game means your war season is screwed. Which is why I've been quite impressed with Kabam taking this step. They didn't have to do it so I think the community should temper our anger a bit and appreciate when Kabam takes a step in the right direction.

    As far as the people who are spouting nonsense on this forum, they have already become memes across the community :smiley:
    People using Mods aren't going to spend money. That much should be obvious to even the most bipartisan perspectives.
    You seem to be pushing some type of narrative about Kabam allowing people to cheat. Good luck with that.
    Are you suggesting that half of the players in the biggest alliance in the game got their purely by botting/modding and not spending a cent?
    Never referenced the highest Alliance at all, really. I'm talking about the people running Mods in BGs. They're not about to spend money. That's why they're running a Mod with low Accounts.
    Aren't we talking about the player at the top of the BG leaderboard that was botting in arenas and whether their spending influenced the punishment?
    That's the post you responded to. Did you read it?
    Spending doesn't reduce punishments. That's not a thing. Period. I'm not circling around the same narrative endlessly.
    It will have a more Orwellian term, something like "Account Standing". "Account Standing" reduces punishments.
    It’s still wrong, that’s not how they do things
    From the post at the top:

    "Those who were not permanently banned can expect something missing from their accounts when they return. The associated 6* champion(s) (Moondragon and/or Adam Warlock) will be removed from their accounts regardless of rank or sig level. No compensation will be made for lost materials."

    So we know some were permanently banned and some were not. What do you think were the attributes of the accounts that were used to decide if the ban was permanent or not?
  • Options
    Suros_moonSuros_moon Posts: 456 ★★★

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    I… don’t think you’d like the answer to that question, and it has nothing to do with MCOC
  • Options

    The biggest alliance in the game currently has half their players on the bench.

    They either:
    1. Cheated their way to get those 5mill+ accounts
    2. Spent a lot of money to get 5mill+ accounts plus did some botting on the side to guarantee the featured champs

    Given they were given 7 days bans, which of the above is more likely to true?

    Get out of here with you logic and common sense! What these people don't get, as the proudly proclaim that modders don't spend anything, that either way it's a lose-lose.

    1. Either Kabam let them cheat their ways into massive accounts for years, or
    2. Kabam gave their biggest whales a rather large slap on the wrist.

    A week suspension at the top of the game means your war season is screwed. Which is why I've been quite impressed with Kabam taking this step. They didn't have to do it so I think the community should temper our anger a bit and appreciate when Kabam takes a step in the right direction.

    As far as the people who are spouting nonsense on this forum, they have already become memes across the community :smiley:
    People using Mods aren't going to spend money. That much should be obvious to even the most bipartisan perspectives.
    You seem to be pushing some type of narrative about Kabam allowing people to cheat. Good luck with that.
    Are you suggesting that half of the players in the biggest alliance in the game got their purely by botting/modding and not spending a cent?
    Never referenced the highest Alliance at all, really. I'm talking about the people running Mods in BGs. They're not about to spend money. That's why they're running a Mod with low Accounts.
    Aren't we talking about the player at the top of the BG leaderboard that was botting in arenas and whether their spending influenced the punishment?
    That's the post you responded to. Did you read it?
    Spending doesn't reduce punishments. That's not a thing. Period. I'm not circling around the same narrative endlessly.
    It will have a more Orwellian term, something like "Account Standing". "Account Standing" reduces punishments.
    It’s still wrong, that’s not how they do things
    From the post at the top:

    "Those who were not permanently banned can expect something missing from their accounts when they return. The associated 6* champion(s) (Moondragon and/or Adam Warlock) will be removed from their accounts regardless of rank or sig level. No compensation will be made for lost materials."

    So we know some were permanently banned and some were not. What do you think were the attributes of the accounts that were used to decide if the ban was permanent or not?
    So there was more to this thread than that post as well as mod responses on other threads I think. This was regarding people getting perm bans for their first time offense when it was actually a temp ban. Not all the bans in that wave were perm. Ones that were permanently banned were either repeat offenders or due to the severity of their cheating, but mostly repeat offenders as I am aware.

    So the ones that were not perm banned, were temp banned and had lost any of the items that they had gotten due to cheating. This has NOTHING to do with how much someone did or did not spend. That does not dictate your punishment.
  • Options
    Suros_moonSuros_moon Posts: 456 ★★★
    On a real note, kabam’s stance on cheaters is anything but light and I praise them for such. TCN was proof that they aren’t going to tolerate this anymore. If you want to be upset about disparities between spenders and non spenders- cough: gifting event rewards: cough, you can do so without pointing to one random account which wasn’t banned within a day of being spotted (also curious as to why you think this person with almost no ranked champs would be “keeping their lights on”)
  • Options
    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 819 ★★★★

    The biggest alliance in the game currently has half their players on the bench.

    They either:
    1. Cheated their way to get those 5mill+ accounts
    2. Spent a lot of money to get 5mill+ accounts plus did some botting on the side to guarantee the featured champs

    Given they were given 7 days bans, which of the above is more likely to true?

    Get out of here with you logic and common sense! What these people don't get, as the proudly proclaim that modders don't spend anything, that either way it's a lose-lose.

    1. Either Kabam let them cheat their ways into massive accounts for years, or
    2. Kabam gave their biggest whales a rather large slap on the wrist.

    A week suspension at the top of the game means your war season is screwed. Which is why I've been quite impressed with Kabam taking this step. They didn't have to do it so I think the community should temper our anger a bit and appreciate when Kabam takes a step in the right direction.

    As far as the people who are spouting nonsense on this forum, they have already become memes across the community :smiley:
    People using Mods aren't going to spend money. That much should be obvious to even the most bipartisan perspectives.
    You seem to be pushing some type of narrative about Kabam allowing people to cheat. Good luck with that.
    Are you suggesting that half of the players in the biggest alliance in the game got their purely by botting/modding and not spending a cent?
    Never referenced the highest Alliance at all, really. I'm talking about the people running Mods in BGs. They're not about to spend money. That's why they're running a Mod with low Accounts.
    Aren't we talking about the player at the top of the BG leaderboard that was botting in arenas and whether their spending influenced the punishment?
    That's the post you responded to. Did you read it?
    They are conflating the top of the leaderboard/the top alliances with half the players missing with the no name modders who are running through content and BG botting.

    Why are they doing that? No idea but it's incredibly dishonest but that's reputation many of these posts have outside the forum. Why else would they resort to the "Kabam hasn't made any money" statement as a defense?

    Your original post was about a certain player who suddenly left to join TCN. One of the top players in the game saw their updated roster after move (while facing them in BG) and said "ah right, he joined TCN; it makes sense that he has all the latest champs now."

    The people gas-lighting you here know exactly what you're talking about but are trying to imply that you didn't start with a very specific question about the top of the BG board and known top players. Either that or they are Cav players and below who aren't near the top of the game to know who you're talking about.

    Like I said, they are considered memes in the community for a reason. It's almost as funny as suggesting that the people in those huge alliances haven't spent a nickle on the game when they post youtube videos/line screenshots/etc of holiday event openings?
  • Options
    StatureStature Posts: 426 ★★★

    Stature said:

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    Not quite that. It's a symbiotic relationship. Servers cost money. Kabam has to pay salaries, taxes, healthcare costs, etc. Where does that money come from? There are no ads in the game. If Kabam made Sigil a requirement for everyone, would you play?

    If you want to see things like this go away, the majority are going to have to pitch in. If Kabam wasn't so reliant on the whales, they'd probably have less incentive to treat them with kid gloves.

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
    You must not live in the real world then.
    Kabam is funded through Netmarble. MCOC is the 2nd strongest title under Netmarbles umbrella.


    All that money coming in from other games is what pays for the costs at Kabam. Healthcare and all that is either through Netmarble or on their own.

    Not like any of this matters because facts don't matter to you but everything here that you've said, is completely false.

    Modders have no reason to spend money.
    Wow... I don't even know what to say to this. Kabam has no need to make any income because Netmarble gets money from their infinite money tree.

    Got it.
    Kabam
    Doesn't
    Make
    Any
    Money
    Period

    All sales goes to Netmarble. Netmarble in turn reinvests all their revenue to their games, including bills and whatnot. You obviously don't know how a business works or subsidiaries.
    Disclaimer: OP's post is ridiculous. The company is obviously doing coming down hard on cheating in the game, they have shared so many of these updates with the community over the last few months.

    But what is the point of this particular line of defense?

    First of all, with respect to technicalities, no subsidiary in a corporate works that way. The money doesn't all go into the parent company and then costs are reimbursed back. If this is a subsidiary, it almost certainly has its own revenues, P&L, balance sheet and cashflows. What you see reported is just a consolidated financial statement. There is an underlying standalone financial statement for the company. The consolidated statement is for, simplistic purposes, an aggregation of the financial statements of all the subsidiaries. Kabam certainly makes money, probably funds its own costs and is likely solvent as a standalone entity. The way most corporates are structured, subsidiaries have their own management teams and boards, who drive all key decisions for the company.

    More importantly, when people talk about the company's revenues, they are referring the the money generated by the game. This is obviously substantial and real (9% of revenues, second largest game in the portfolio). The pedantic observation on whether the subsidiary or the parent controls the revenues is irrelevant. Operationally, there is a particular team which is responsible to the game development and manages the budget for it. It hardly matters what corporate logo is shown on their business card.

    The only reason I'm contesting this is because I've seen this argument for anytime it is suggested that the company could invest in a particular solution. It isn't a valid argument based on how real life companies work.
    I don't know if subsidiaries is the right term but pretty sure Miike has confirmed what I've said and more so what DNA3000 has said. I'm sure it doesn't go straight to Netmarble but I'm sure whatever their cut is, it goes to them and Kabam is left with what they need to run the studio.
    I'm not sure what was said, so I won't comment on that. Usually, companies have profit and growth targets. If revenues don't match up they would need cost cuts to achieve those targets. None of that is set in stone and teams are afforded flexibility based on performance. At times they may not have budgetary approval for additional resources or sometimes these things just take time (hiring people, creating infrastructure). However, to suggest that the company doesn't make any money is factually wrong.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    Stature said:

    Stature said:

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    Not quite that. It's a symbiotic relationship. Servers cost money. Kabam has to pay salaries, taxes, healthcare costs, etc. Where does that money come from? There are no ads in the game. If Kabam made Sigil a requirement for everyone, would you play?

    If you want to see things like this go away, the majority are going to have to pitch in. If Kabam wasn't so reliant on the whales, they'd probably have less incentive to treat them with kid gloves.

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
    You must not live in the real world then.
    Kabam is funded through Netmarble. MCOC is the 2nd strongest title under Netmarbles umbrella.


    All that money coming in from other games is what pays for the costs at Kabam. Healthcare and all that is either through Netmarble or on their own.

    Not like any of this matters because facts don't matter to you but everything here that you've said, is completely false.

    Modders have no reason to spend money.
    Wow... I don't even know what to say to this. Kabam has no need to make any income because Netmarble gets money from their infinite money tree.

    Got it.
    Kabam
    Doesn't
    Make
    Any
    Money
    Period

    All sales goes to Netmarble. Netmarble in turn reinvests all their revenue to their games, including bills and whatnot. You obviously don't know how a business works or subsidiaries.
    Disclaimer: OP's post is ridiculous. The company is obviously doing coming down hard on cheating in the game, they have shared so many of these updates with the community over the last few months.

    But what is the point of this particular line of defense?

    First of all, with respect to technicalities, no subsidiary in a corporate works that way. The money doesn't all go into the parent company and then costs are reimbursed back. If this is a subsidiary, it almost certainly has its own revenues, P&L, balance sheet and cashflows. What you see reported is just a consolidated financial statement. There is an underlying standalone financial statement for the company. The consolidated statement is for, simplistic purposes, an aggregation of the financial statements of all the subsidiaries. Kabam certainly makes money, probably funds its own costs and is likely solvent as a standalone entity. The way most corporates are structured, subsidiaries have their own management teams and boards, who drive all key decisions for the company.

    More importantly, when people talk about the company's revenues, they are referring the the money generated by the game. This is obviously substantial and real (9% of revenues, second largest game in the portfolio). The pedantic observation on whether the subsidiary or the parent controls the revenues is irrelevant. Operationally, there is a particular team which is responsible to the game development and manages the budget for it. It hardly matters what corporate logo is shown on their business card.

    The only reason I'm contesting this is because I've seen this argument for anytime it is suggested that the company could invest in a particular solution. It isn't a valid argument based on how real life companies work.
    I don't know if subsidiaries is the right term but pretty sure Miike has confirmed what I've said and more so what DNA3000 has said. I'm sure it doesn't go straight to Netmarble but I'm sure whatever their cut is, it goes to them and Kabam is left with what they need to run the studio.
    I'm not sure what was said, so I won't comment on that. Usually, companies have profit and growth targets. If revenues don't match up they would need cost cuts to achieve those targets. None of that is set in stone and teams are afforded flexibility based on performance. At times they may not have budgetary approval for additional resources or sometimes these things just take time (hiring people, creating infrastructure). However, to suggest that the company doesn't make any money is factually wrong.
    I don't think he's suggesting that Kabam doesn't make any money. Seems like he's saying that all of Kabam's profits are directed straight to Netmarble, which then pays Kabam for their employee salaries, resources, and anything they need to keep things going, then Netmarble keeps the rest as their own profit.
  • Options
    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,951 ★★★★★

    Stature said:

    Stature said:

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    So basically the more you spend, the more you are free to cheat/exploit?
    Not quite that. It's a symbiotic relationship. Servers cost money. Kabam has to pay salaries, taxes, healthcare costs, etc. Where does that money come from? There are no ads in the game. If Kabam made Sigil a requirement for everyone, would you play?

    If you want to see things like this go away, the majority are going to have to pitch in. If Kabam wasn't so reliant on the whales, they'd probably have less incentive to treat them with kid gloves.

    Can't ban the people that keep your salary paid or your severs running. Cheating aside, those guys keep the game going. Tough situation all around but props to Kabam for even taking this stand.

    This is the stupidest thing I've read this week.
    You must not live in the real world then.
    Kabam is funded through Netmarble. MCOC is the 2nd strongest title under Netmarbles umbrella.


    All that money coming in from other games is what pays for the costs at Kabam. Healthcare and all that is either through Netmarble or on their own.

    Not like any of this matters because facts don't matter to you but everything here that you've said, is completely false.

    Modders have no reason to spend money.
    Wow... I don't even know what to say to this. Kabam has no need to make any income because Netmarble gets money from their infinite money tree.

    Got it.
    Kabam
    Doesn't
    Make
    Any
    Money
    Period

    All sales goes to Netmarble. Netmarble in turn reinvests all their revenue to their games, including bills and whatnot. You obviously don't know how a business works or subsidiaries.
    Disclaimer: OP's post is ridiculous. The company is obviously doing coming down hard on cheating in the game, they have shared so many of these updates with the community over the last few months.

    But what is the point of this particular line of defense?

    First of all, with respect to technicalities, no subsidiary in a corporate works that way. The money doesn't all go into the parent company and then costs are reimbursed back. If this is a subsidiary, it almost certainly has its own revenues, P&L, balance sheet and cashflows. What you see reported is just a consolidated financial statement. There is an underlying standalone financial statement for the company. The consolidated statement is for, simplistic purposes, an aggregation of the financial statements of all the subsidiaries. Kabam certainly makes money, probably funds its own costs and is likely solvent as a standalone entity. The way most corporates are structured, subsidiaries have their own management teams and boards, who drive all key decisions for the company.

    More importantly, when people talk about the company's revenues, they are referring the the money generated by the game. This is obviously substantial and real (9% of revenues, second largest game in the portfolio). The pedantic observation on whether the subsidiary or the parent controls the revenues is irrelevant. Operationally, there is a particular team which is responsible to the game development and manages the budget for it. It hardly matters what corporate logo is shown on their business card.

    The only reason I'm contesting this is because I've seen this argument for anytime it is suggested that the company could invest in a particular solution. It isn't a valid argument based on how real life companies work.
    I don't know if subsidiaries is the right term but pretty sure Miike has confirmed what I've said and more so what DNA3000 has said. I'm sure it doesn't go straight to Netmarble but I'm sure whatever their cut is, it goes to them and Kabam is left with what they need to run the studio.
    I'm not sure what was said, so I won't comment on that. Usually, companies have profit and growth targets. If revenues don't match up they would need cost cuts to achieve those targets. None of that is set in stone and teams are afforded flexibility based on performance. At times they may not have budgetary approval for additional resources or sometimes these things just take time (hiring people, creating infrastructure). However, to suggest that the company doesn't make any money is factually wrong.
    I don't think he's suggesting that Kabam doesn't make any money. Seems like he's saying that all of Kabam's profits are directed straight to Netmarble, which then pays Kabam for their employee salaries, resources, and anything they need to keep things going, then Netmarble keeps the rest as their own profit.
    I would be keen to learn how the profit extraction are made.
    Royalties? Management fees? Interest? Dividends? Or take a bit fat loan from Kabam and pay them interest?
    Maybe cash pooling with 100% daily withdrawal?
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