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What is with the difficulty increase.

Pleth_Droban390Pleth_Droban390 Posts: 4 ★
in General Discussion
Listen, I’m new to the forums so I don’t have all the fancy lingo, but I know numbers and something ain’t adding up. My “starting five” are all at 10,000 or close to it. I’m facing guys in Road to the Labyrinth that are 12,000 to 15,000 and absolutely pummeling them. Sixty five, seventy even eighty hits and they’re still standing. My unblocked level two special is doing one percent damage. Meanwhile they don’t need to hit me more than five or six times (or zero times, thank you Abomination) and clearing my character out. They’re doing five percent damage with a fully blocked combo, and seven to ten with a blocked level one special. By the numbers they’re only a bit stronger than me, but I’m game they’re ten times stronger. Does Kabam not know what numbers mean. Am I doing something wrong
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    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,643 ★★★★★
    @Pleth_Droban390 safeguard is the reason why. Use champs that have damage over time, power sting, etc. I ran that years ago with 4*s with champs like Scarlet Witch and Black Widow as they could sometimes get around safeguard. AA would be good. It isn't actually a difficulty increase, just a damage cap.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    I know about safeguard, lit him up with incinerate and all that good stuff, still didn’t do much. That’s just an example anyway. I feel the game has lost the balance that used to make it fun. The ramp up in difficulty between act 4 and act five is ridiculous. Going from facing champions in the 6,000 - 7,000 range to 12,000 plus with no in between seems a tad much. With opposing champions’ health and attack boosted by 300% at every node, you make one mistake and you’re done. Meanwhile you’ve got to lay in seventy or eighty hits, with zero margin for error. You tell me a way to even THAT out.

    Trust, it gets easier at Act 7. Act 5 and 6 were pretty much just Kabam throwing stuff at the wall and tryna see what sticks. Once you get more into it, you'll see much better design in the EQ and more modern content in general. Even just going through Act 6, the nodes and fights get noticably better as you progress.

    Edit: You've also gotta remember that you're currently facing content that became pretty outdated 3-5 years ago. There was once a much steadier increase in difficulty with the Side and Event quests being that stepping stone. As time passed, the lower level content got harder and more rewarding. It should start to even out for you pretty soon.
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    Caleb1705Caleb1705 Posts: 253 ★★★
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    I feel the game has lost the balance that used to make it fun. The ramp up in difficulty between act 4 and act five is ridiculous.

    You know they're currently working on Act 8 right?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    Damn people are getting disrespectful fast. The game won't always be like this. Your understanding of the game will change along with the mechanics of it as you go. Just wait until you see Paragon players complain about Protection and you can laugh at them for having stacked rosters and not being able to read nodes. Good luck!
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    I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,198 ★★★★
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    I know about safeguard, lit him up with incinerate and all that good stuff, still didn’t do much. That’s just an example anyway. I feel the game has lost the balance that used to make it fun. The ramp up in difficulty between act 4 and act five is ridiculous. Going from facing champions in the 6,000 - 7,000 range to 12,000 plus with no in between seems a tad much. With opposing champions’ health and attack boosted by 300% at every node, you make one mistake and you’re done. Meanwhile you’ve got to lay in seventy or eighty hits, with zero margin for error. You tell me a way to even THAT out.

    Don't say these things to me
    I did Road to Labyrinth with r5 4*s and a r4 5*nf

    The difficulty hasn't increased
    It's just that players have become less skilled and lazier as new players get access to powerful champions faster than we used to get
    They now get champs like herc who can take Specials and still survive while we used to have champions like heimdall as our only saving grace...

    Imagine not being able to understand nodes even when you have 5*r5(since only those have 10k+ rating other than 6* r2 and above) champions and ranting about it on forums saying that the game has become more difficult while more than 75% of the summoners did those fights with much less powerful champions...
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    I_tell_no_tales_1I_tell_no_tales_1 Posts: 1,198 ★★★★
    AngelMcNugget said:

    Damn people are getting disrespectful fast. The game won't always be like this. Your understanding of the game will change along with the mechanics of it as you go. Just wait until you see Paragon players complain about Protection and you can laugh at them for having stacked rosters and not being able to read nodes. Good luck!

    I can just imagine a post saying
    "My 6*r5 Hulkling is not doing more than 1% in this quest and the opponent kills me in two combos. The game has lost its balance and is no longer fun"

    Those will be good days...
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    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 5,001 ★★★★★
    I_tell_no_tales_1 said:

    AngelMcNugget said:

    Damn people are getting disrespectful fast. The game won't always be like this. Your understanding of the game will change along with the mechanics of it as you go. Just wait until you see Paragon players complain about Protection and you can laugh at them for having stacked rosters and not being able to read nodes. Good luck!

    I can just imagine a post saying
    "My 6*r5 Hulkling is not doing more than 1% in this quest and the opponent kills me in two combos. The game has lost its balance and is no longer fun"

    Those will be good days...
    Yet it will happen guaranteed. That's what happens when people progress too fast and with more powerful champs than those that do it when the content initially drops.
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    FurrymoosenFurrymoosen Posts: 2,225 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    I know about safeguard, lit him up with incinerate and all that good stuff, still didn’t do much. That’s just an example anyway. I feel the game has lost the balance that used to make it fun. The ramp up in difficulty between act 4 and act five is ridiculous. Going from facing champions in the 6,000 - 7,000 range to 12,000 plus with no in between seems a tad much. With opposing champions’ health and attack boosted by 300% at every node, you make one mistake and you’re done. Meanwhile you’ve got to lay in seventy or eighty hits, with zero margin for error. You tell me a way to even THAT out

    You put far too much stock in the PI rating of champions. Players today still don’t have PI ratings on champs that match the bosses in Act 6, yet they still beat them. They didn’t beat them by an even match of numbers, they beat them by developing their skills as content became more difficult. The majority of fights in Act 8 have a PI of 40-50k+, yet my 20-25k champs have no issue getting most fights down in well under 70-80 hits. The name of the game is improving, not crying for content to be tuned down.

    TLDR; get good.
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    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 5,001 ★★★★★
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    Well, it’s good to see the forums haven’t changed since the last time. Still filled with assholes. You idiots are part of the reason I quit playing four or five years ago. Thanks for the “help”, but “get good” and other snarky little comments don’t address the fact that the difficulty increases are uneven, at best, or that the game balance favors high level pay to players and noobs who aren’t yet addicted. That’s the business model of every “free” game ever, but most of these games do a much better job of keeping the grinders interested. Back in the day I quit when the game ended at act four, and four star champions were state of the art. I only did so because I finished all the main quests and the monthlies were . . . Bad. Don’t assume the person you’re talking to doesn’t know as much about something as you do, only fools do that. I’ve been grinding on this current account for three or four years now, and I’ve never encountered an issue until now. All I’m saying is that player progression isn’t matching up with the leap in difficulty, and that’s the simple truth.

    If that was the simple truth, then beating the road to labyrinth would still be 100% necessary to even do the actual labyrinth. But it's not. What does that tell you?
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,396 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    I know about safeguard, lit him up with incinerate and all that good stuff, still didn’t do much. That’s just an example anyway. I feel the game has lost the balance that used to make it fun. The ramp up in difficulty between act 4 and act five is ridiculous. Going from facing champions in the 6,000 - 7,000 range to 12,000 plus with no in between seems a tad much. With opposing champions’ health and attack boosted by 300% at every node, you make one mistake and you’re done. Meanwhile you’ve got to lay in seventy or eighty hits, with zero margin for error. You tell me a way to even THAT out.

    Road to Labyrinth is a steady increase as you move chapters.

    Champion PI means nothing. This is a defender in the Paragon difficulty in the monthly EQ. About 3x the PI of my attacker.


    Once you're done with RTTL, you'll unlock Realm of Labyrinth and those defenders are 4*'s with PI of 70k to 80k. All that matters is the nodes and your counters.

    Back in the day, we'd regularly be using 4* starlords to build a combo of 400 to take those defenders down.
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    FurrymoosenFurrymoosen Posts: 2,225 ★★★★★
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    Well, it’s good to see the forums haven’t changed since the last time. Still filled with assholes. You idiots are part of the reason I quit playing four or five years ago. Thanks for the “help”, but “get good” and other snarky little comments don’t address the fact that the difficulty increases are uneven, at best, or that the game balance favors high level pay to players and noobs who aren’t yet addicted. That’s the business model of every “free” game ever, but most of these games do a much better job of keeping the grinders interested. Back in the day I quit when the game ended at act four, and four star champions were state of the art. I only did so because I finished all the main quests and the monthlies were . . . Bad. Don’t assume the person you’re talking to doesn’t know as much about something as you do, only fools do that. I’ve been grinding on this current account for three or four years now, and I’ve never encountered an issue until now. All I’m saying is that player progression isn’t matching up with the leap in difficulty, and that’s the simple truth.

    If you quit when 4* were the top then you haven’t been back long enough to realize how much easier the game is today than it was then. You’re whining about things you haven’t done being hard to a large community that has been there and done it. So yes, you may understand some aspects of the game, but don’t start calling names and putting people down on here when we understand far more about the content you have yet to do. You’re also right, the forums haven’t changed. It’s still full of people whining about the game being too hard because they either can’t bully their way through content with a ranked up Herc or they get to a point where their roster is no longer incredibly overpowered and they actually have to start developing skill. Act 5 has always been that significant jump where skill starts to play a bigger role and players need to be able to take that next step. Player progression has actually exceeded difficulty and then some at this point (again, something the rest of us know better than you). Most old players cleared Cavalier (Act 6.1) with rank 3 and 4 5* champs, but now newer players are doing it with rank 3 and 4 6* champs instead. Between easier/quicker roster development and the nerfing of story content, progressing through story is much easier than when you last played. So you’re right, the balance is off, but not in the direction your complaint is focused on.
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    Ayden_noah1Ayden_noah1 Posts: 1,393 ★★★★
    Wait till Act 6, it's gets harder if you don't read nodes. I like the fact that you come here to complain but won't accept assistance from those that are trying to help you. I know that some of the comments are snarky and not as friendly as you like but you did come here complaining about something without givind us an context to what you are eluding to. What do you find so hard, that fact that the node is the issue or that you don't have the proper counter. If you don't have the counter to the node then it will be more difficult for sure. If you didn't read the node and use the wrong champ again it becomes difficult. Is it that you think it just too tough in general, that would be a different story.
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    Shake_a_QuakeShake_a_Quake Posts: 462 ★★★
    @Pleth_Droban390 the forums can get real snarky fast. My only suggestion is learn how to parry and dex, they'll help you everywhere in the game.
    I did the labyrinth too, you gotta Dex or block these opponents a lot, specifically if there's safeguard, where only strong DOT champs work. Don't mind, if you gotta use a revive or two, no shame in that.
    And trust me you wanna settle down for the difficulty, because Act 6 is a real pain in the cheeks (they say it was even worse). Istg, I thought masochism and bio-hazard were the worst, until i met lifecycle. I never thought I would even get Uncollected, and here I'm at Cav.

    You can kinda expect difficulty now, due to summoners scoring really OP champs of 5 or 6 star, way before they are supposed to.

    Ps: Not defending the game, but trust me everything gets less complicated when you learn how to Dex and parry.
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    ChatterofforumsChatterofforums Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    Well, it’s good to see the forums haven’t changed since the last time. Still filled with assholes. You idiots are part of the reason I quit playing four or five years ago. Thanks for the “help”, but “get good” and other snarky little comments don’t address the fact that the difficulty increases are uneven, at best, or that the game balance favors high level pay to players and noobs who aren’t yet addicted. That’s the business model of every “free” game ever, but most of these games do a much better job of keeping the grinders interested. Back in the day I quit when the game ended at act four, and four star champions were state of the art. I only did so because I finished all the main quests and the monthlies were . . . Bad. Don’t assume the person you’re talking to doesn’t know as much about something as you do, only fools do that. I’ve been grinding on this current account for three or four years now, and I’ve never encountered an issue until now. All I’m saying is that player progression isn’t matching up with the leap in difficulty, and that’s the simple truth.

    Two words for you, "GIT GUD"!
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    Sceptilemaniac2Sceptilemaniac2 Posts: 285 ★★★
    This thread is now my source of entertainment. Please keep the responses fresh, OP.
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    Pleth_Droban390Pleth_Droban390 Posts: 4 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    Pleth_Droban390 said:

    Well, it’s good to see the forums haven’t changed since the last time. Still filled with assholes. You idiots are part of the reason I quit playing four or five years ago. Thanks for the “help”, but “get good” and other snarky little comments don’t address the fact that the difficulty increases are uneven, at best, or that the game balance favors high level pay to players and noobs who aren’t yet addicted. That’s the business model of every “free” game ever, but most of these games do a much better job of keeping the grinders interested. Back in the day I quit when the game ended at act four, and four star champions were state of the art. I only did so because I finished all the main quests and the monthlies were . . . Bad. Don’t assume the person you’re talking to doesn’t know as much about something as you do, only fools do that. I’ve been grinding on this current account for three or four years now, and I’ve never encountered an issue until now. All I’m saying is that player progression isn’t matching up with the leap in difficulty, and that’s the simple truth.

    You are correct that the difficulty ramps up "unevenly" in the story arc. That's because from Act four onwards the game introduces new difficulty mechanics, and those do not change difficulty "smoothly" nor can it. We have eight story arc Acts to cover a lot more progression ground: within each Act difficulty is relatively constrained within a general band so players playing through them don't suddenly run into brick walls, but that means difficulty between arcs has to jump somewhat.

    In the early acts, difficulty mostly just ramped up by using higher ranked champions. Act 4 did throw twists, like that linked up Venom, but for the most part difficulty got higher by numbers getting bigger. In Act 5 difficulty started to get increased with more sophisticated nodes. Things don't just get bigger numbers, they get nodes that favor certain kinds of damage or abilities. In Act 6, the nodes become even more sophisticated, requiring specific tactics to get passed them. Infamously Act 6.1.1 introduced (at least for most players) the No Retreat node which punishes playes for dashing backwards too often. This can be mitigated by certain champs, but the more fundamental requirement was to practice specific styles of play and being more aware of timing-specific requirements. This sort of things continues into Act 7 and Act 8 with things like Paradox and Weapon nodes. This is something players have to adjust to, and in spite of the fact that it adds complexity to the game, it makes it a lot easier than the alternative, which was exponential numbers growth. There was a whole giant debate about it which peaked during Act 7.1.1 beta, and in which I had some role in myself.

    You're mostly wrong about the game "favoring" big spenders and "unaddicted noobs." In general, it favors intelligent and skilled play. Spending does offer advantages, because it is supposed to, but no one can make the credible argument that game progress - particularly the pre-Paragon pre-Act 7/8 progress - is gated to spending. In fact, Kabam completely refactored the early game - particularly Acts 1 through 4 - to streamline them and make them much easier and quicker for new players to traverse. They also *packed* them with units, to make it easier for new players to quickly do things like unlock and rank up masteries. The resources that veteran players had to scratch and claw to get to reach Uncollected are practically given away today, and the skills and tactics required to clear Act 6 are now commonplace in guides and tutorials and videos. And Act 6 itself is now maybe half as difficult as it was when it first came out, as it was rebalanced to target more moderate player skill and rosters.

    Assuming blindly what someone does and does not know about the game is always dangerous, but in point of fact you do have extremely obvious gaps in your knowledge. Road to Labyrinth is not some weird state of the art high difficulty edge case content. It wasn't even all that hard when it first came out. It isn't broken or strange. If you're having trouble with it, the odds are very high that it is something you're doing wrong. The difficulty jump from Act 4 to Act 5 was noteworthy years ago when Act 5 first came out, but in the context of the current game it is a speed bump that the majority of players - free or otherwise - now get past. Uncollected is the new floor for the game, with the earlier parts of the game quickly becoming an extended tutorial. Completely free and completely new players are regularly getting to and beating the Collector. And if they have difficulty, the game will come along and just hand them champs ten times better than what veterans had to use. It is not uncommon for new players to be beating the Collector with 5* and 6* champs these days. That's partially what makes that particular jump in difficulty no longer noteworthy.

    Player progression in this game, which is to say roster progression, is today *vastly faster* than it used to be, while Act 4 and Act 5 have more or less been standing still for years. Player progression doesn't just "match up" with the difficulty increases, it dramatically surpasses difficulty increases in Story Arc content. So much so that monthly quest content was recently refactored *upward* in difficulty to account for the fact that current player roster progression was making a mockery of that content.

    You need to consider that your prior four years of experience did not fully prepare you for the game as it is today. Compared to the game pre-Act 5, most of the skills currently seen as standard are not things that were common back then. You're still playing in a parry-dominated world. Back then intercepting was a state of the art skill. Today it is something players need to have in their base skill set just to get past certain content. Nodes used to be something you could ignore or figure out during play. Today, we *constantly* get questions, complaints, and rants from players who don't understand why they can't beat a fight and therefore the game must be broken when it is just that they don't realize they are fighting with Safeguard, Protection, Lifecycle, Power Shield, or one of the many other nodes in the game that are now relatively common but you need to be aware of and understand to work around. Because literacy was not required in the pre-Act 5 game, but it is pretty essential now.

    You can be humble and ask questions and accept the fact that when people point out stuff it is worth considering what they are saying, or you can fight back and reject any response that doesn't confirm your awesomeness and suggests the problem is with the game and not you. In which case the forums will not be kind. Personally, I advocate politeness whenever possible, but I'm not going to stand in the way of the train if you insist on standing on the tracks.

    Basically, you never had an issue until now because until now you were playing the junior varsity version of the game. The game has moved on, and it didn't just scale everything up. It added more ways to kill you, and also more ways to beat it, and you have to learn what those are. Or not, it is your call.
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    CerebriumCerebrium Posts: 84 ★
    It is true that the levels are more difficult. I still cannot pass Act 5 and stuck on Road to Labyrinth. I have max 5* and 6* r2 and still got totally thrashed. Even the daily quests I noticed have gotten harder as well :-(
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    CerebriumCerebrium Posts: 84 ★
    Maybe you can try again and let us know if it has actually changed LoL. Maybe let us know how many units you have to spend to pass Act 5.

    Otherwise it sounds like “when I was young, I used to walk to the shops and got caned at school”, but time has changed and they are not allowed to use cane anymore, or chalk either, or dialup internet and e-scooters as well. Haha 😂

    But, seriously if some of you more experienced players can try now and honestly tell us if it is has the same difficulty.

    My guess is, while Kabam might let players levelled up more easily to make you feel good. They just
    Increase the difficulties to make up for it. So it is just a “perception” of having higher ranks
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    xLunatiXxxLunatiXx Posts: 1,277 ★★★★★
    Cerebrium said:

    Maybe you can try again and let us know if it has actually changed LoL. Maybe let us know how many units you have to spend to pass Act 5.

    Otherwise it sounds like “when I was young, I used to walk to the shops and got caned at school”, but time has changed and they are not allowed to use cane anymore, or chalk either, or dialup internet and e-scooters as well. Haha 😂

    But, seriously if some of you more experienced players can try now and honestly tell us if it is has the same difficulty.

    My guess is, while Kabam might let players levelled up more easily to make you feel good. They just
    Increase the difficulties to make up for it. So it is just a “perception” of having higher ranks

    What are you smoking?? They have literally done the opposite, nerfing act content to the ground.
    If you refuse to accept reality or to ask for advices, I believe a good old "git gud" is necessary
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