BG Scoring Needs a minor Tweak

24

Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★

    I'm not a fan of the new scoring personally. It's screwed results up.

    It hasn't screwed results up, results are exactly as they should be based on the scoring system, you just personally don't like them as fights are settled by closer margins more often.
    No. I'm not a fan of a scoring metric that makes keeping as much Health the main objective, when it only caters to a small demographic of Players who call that skill. There are other forms of skill.
    The old scoring had 3 things you had to focus on. Not just one. You're essentially saying keeping more Health is more important than taking your Opponent down before the other person. That means pausing is a tactic that is more lucrative.
    Also, yes. The Fight margins are too tight. That's an issue for me.
    There was nothing wrong with the scoring before. I disagree with the change.
    Do you not think that by focussing less on time it allows you to make a wider group of champions viable for the game mode instead of focussing on a smaller group of champions that can do fights really fast and don’t really care about keeping health? And hence means that your knowledge of the draft and RPG counters is rewarded more by building a successful deck and choosing the right counters

    For example, before the changes, if someone placed a Dr Doom, you would be better off using a Juggernaut, super fast counter that can nuke him down while losing 5-10% health. But that’s not an RPG counter, that’s just picking someone super fast who can nuke it faster than your opponent.

    Now, it’s a smarter choice to pick quicksilver for it. He’s not fast, but he absolutely counters everything about Doom, and more often than not will have a higher average health remaining than Juggs vs Doom. A player is rewarded more for picking a good counter. In some sense, there’s a lower reliance on skill in that particular example, because you need more skill to use juggernaut vs Doom than QS. But now you’re rewarded more for your strategy.


    Regarding the pause strategy, you and I agree on that, but it doesn’t mean the scoring changes are good or bad, just that it’s a more pressing issue to finally address and stop letting players be able to cheat using it.
    I think removing the time element removed a plethora of scenarios for a Win. It rewards people who can avoid getting hit, which is one aspect, but at the expense of those who actually down their Opponent, but lost more Health. Which makes absolutely no sense.
    Question. Do you justify someone winning who has full Health but took 2 minutes over someone who downed the Opponent in less time but has half Health? I don't.
    The time element wasn’t removed, it was reduced. Important to be accurate about these things imo.

    Absolutely I do, because it means you could throw a nuke like CGR at immortal Abom and screw the damage taken, you did it fast. That’s not skilful, that’s throwing a nuke at a champion who is objectively a bad matchup, playing bad but doing it fast.
    Then we will have to agree to disagree. There are Players who consider the only measure of skill to be not getting hit. Which is fine. When you center an entire game mode around rewarding that aspect and not rewarding the skill in choosing matchups (which goes into winning faster), then you're negating the whole process of Drafts and picks. The system was fine the way it was. It rewarded more than one definition of skill. Now it's limited to Players who are skilled with the same few God Tier Champs, and those who pride themselves on never getting hit. It decentivizes taking Damage.
    Incentivising taking damage sounds like the complete opposite of skilled play.

    Choosing matchups is completely centred around not taking damage and doing matches well and fast. Like my example before choosing juggernaut for a doom fight is not more RPG based than choosing QS for it. The draft phase has never been more important because before you could just use Jugs, CGR, ghost and nuke everything without skill or draft knowledge. Now you need to pick better options
    No one said incentivizing taking Damage was the suggestion I was making. However, when you make the majority focus on it, to the point where you can down your Opponent and lose because you lost less Health, that system isn't a competition.
    Also, I'm fully aware of the Champs. You might as well call it AA and Torch Grounds. The problem is, all this does is further exacerbate that issue because the same Champs are the ones who are downing Fights without taking Damage. I've banned enough to know it just highlights it..
    I feel like we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, which is fine. I don't agree with the current scoring change. That's how I feel.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★

    Where is the purpose for pausing spelled out in game?


    Can you seriously sit there and tell me with a straight face you think the pause button function is to stop fighting because you’re worried about taking more damage and losing?
    I can’t tell you what it’s intended for. I can just tell you how it can be used.


    Can you seriously sit there with a straight face and tell me nobody is doing it and the current scoring doesn’t incentivize it?

    There are prominent YouTubers mentioning it as a strategy for Nick Fury fights. You can be self righteous and complain about it and call it cheating but the scoring change incentivized it so you’re giving up an a tool in the toolbox by not using it. Hopefully highlighting it will get
    Kabam to make a change.

    No I can’t tell you nobody is doing it, or that the system doesn’t incentivise it. I never claimed either of those things, whereas you implied that the purpose of the pause is never specified, so there’s a chance it was meant to be used to exploit the game. When we both know that is a disingenuous argument.
    And I never said that’s what it was for. I just said it’s a way to use it. I did say the purpose isn’t stated. I didn’t mean for that to imply it might be intended for stalling a fight. I meant for it to convey that it’s a mechanism in the game that everyone can use, presumably, how they see fit. You use it to sneeze, some people use it when the accidentally push the defender to three bars of power. You chose to assume the intent is limited and label others as cheaters.

    For the record, I don’t like that pausing is an option. It’s been a problem since the beginning and this scoring change only exacerbates it. I used it as a strategy to test the new scoring this season and it confirmed that this change makes it more beneficial than before. Hopefully this thread finally puts it high enough in the list for improvements for next season.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    I'm not a fan of the new scoring personally. It's screwed results up.

    It hasn't screwed results up, results are exactly as they should be based on the scoring system, you just personally don't like them as fights are settled by closer margins more often.
    No. I'm not a fan of a scoring metric that makes keeping as much Health the main objective, when it only caters to a small demographic of Players who call that skill. There are other forms of skill.
    The old scoring had 3 things you had to focus on. Not just one. You're essentially saying keeping more Health is more important than taking your Opponent down before the other person. That means pausing is a tactic that is more lucrative.
    Also, yes. The Fight margins are too tight. That's an issue for me.
    There was nothing wrong with the scoring before. I disagree with the change.
    Do you not think that by focussing less on time it allows you to make a wider group of champions viable for the game mode instead of focussing on a smaller group of champions that can do fights really fast and don’t really care about keeping health? And hence means that your knowledge of the draft and RPG counters is rewarded more by building a successful deck and choosing the right counters

    For example, before the changes, if someone placed a Dr Doom, you would be better off using a Juggernaut, super fast counter that can nuke him down while losing 5-10% health. But that’s not an RPG counter, that’s just picking someone super fast who can nuke it faster than your opponent.

    Now, it’s a smarter choice to pick quicksilver for it. He’s not fast, but he absolutely counters everything about Doom, and more often than not will have a higher average health remaining than Juggs vs Doom. A player is rewarded more for picking a good counter. In some sense, there’s a lower reliance on skill in that particular example, because you need more skill to use juggernaut vs Doom than QS. But now you’re rewarded more for your strategy.


    Regarding the pause strategy, you and I agree on that, but it doesn’t mean the scoring changes are good or bad, just that it’s a more pressing issue to finally address and stop letting players be able to cheat using it.
    I think removing the time element removed a plethora of scenarios for a Win. It rewards people who can avoid getting hit, which is one aspect, but at the expense of those who actually down their Opponent, but lost more Health. Which makes absolutely no sense.
    Question. Do you justify someone winning who has full Health but took 2 minutes over someone who downed the Opponent in less time but has half Health? I don't.
    The time element wasn’t removed, it was reduced. Important to be accurate about these things imo.

    Absolutely I do, because it means you could throw a nuke like CGR at immortal Abom and screw the damage taken, you did it fast. That’s not skilful, that’s throwing a nuke at a champion who is objectively a bad matchup, playing bad but doing it fast.
    Then we will have to agree to disagree. There are Players who consider the only measure of skill to be not getting hit. Which is fine. When you center an entire game mode around rewarding that aspect and not rewarding the skill in choosing matchups (which goes into winning faster), then you're negating the whole process of Drafts and picks. The system was fine the way it was. It rewarded more than one definition of skill. Now it's limited to Players who are skilled with the same few God Tier Champs, and those who pride themselves on never getting hit. It decentivizes taking Damage.
    Incentivising taking damage sounds like the complete opposite of skilled play.

    Choosing matchups is completely centred around not taking damage and doing matches well and fast. Like my example before choosing juggernaut for a doom fight is not more RPG based than choosing QS for it. The draft phase has never been more important because before you could just use Jugs, CGR, ghost and nuke everything without skill or draft knowledge. Now you need to pick better options
    No one said incentivizing taking Damage was the suggestion I was making. However, when you make the majority focus on it, to the point where you can down your Opponent and lose because you lost less Health, that system isn't a competition.
    Also, I'm fully aware of the Champs. You might as well call it AA and Torch Grounds. The problem is, all this does is further exacerbate that issue because the same Champs are the ones who are downing Fights without taking Damage. I've banned enough to know it just highlights it..
    I feel like we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, which is fine. I don't agree with the current scoring change. That's how I feel.
    How on earth is the system not a competition? Just because you disagree with a change doesn’t make it not a competition.

    I would suggest focussing more on taking fights safely and keeping your health, pick drafts that you know are safe counters rather than quick ones. Know that your opponent is in the same position as you, and if they’re messing up then you can win the fight.

    That incentivises good drafting and safe play, good fighting. I’m not sure many people would argue that a player losing 50% of their health is playing very skilled.

    These changes don’t make torch or AA any more or less useful, so I’m not sure what point that raises for you.

  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    Where is the purpose for pausing spelled out in game?


    Can you seriously sit there and tell me with a straight face you think the pause button function is to stop fighting because you’re worried about taking more damage and losing?
    I can’t tell you what it’s intended for. I can just tell you how it can be used.


    Can you seriously sit there with a straight face and tell me nobody is doing it and the current scoring doesn’t incentivize it?

    There are prominent YouTubers mentioning it as a strategy for Nick Fury fights. You can be self righteous and complain about it and call it cheating but the scoring change incentivized it so you’re giving up an a tool in the toolbox by not using it. Hopefully highlighting it will get
    Kabam to make a change.

    No I can’t tell you nobody is doing it, or that the system doesn’t incentivise it. I never claimed either of those things, whereas you implied that the purpose of the pause is never specified, so there’s a chance it was meant to be used to exploit the game. When we both know that is a disingenuous argument.
    You use it to sneeze, some people use it when the accidentally push the defender to three bars of power. You chose to assume the intent is limited and label others as cheaters.
    Because sneezing doesn’t give me an exploitable advantage when I mess up. That’s why it’s ok to assume the intent is for… you know, pausing. Not because you pushed them to 3 bars of power.

    I’m in the CCP, would you like me to ask the developers them whether they think the pause button is more intended for a break in play if needed due to a real life situation, or if it’s intended to stop an opponent using an sp3 because you messed up?
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★
    I think some of the disagreement is on the term “better options”.

    You’re arguing someone else is a better option because they take less damage but can’t finish the fight within the time allotted. I don’t think I’ll ever agree with that assessment of “better”.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★

    Where is the purpose for pausing spelled out in game?


    Can you seriously sit there and tell me with a straight face you think the pause button function is to stop fighting because you’re worried about taking more damage and losing?
    I can’t tell you what it’s intended for. I can just tell you how it can be used.


    Can you seriously sit there with a straight face and tell me nobody is doing it and the current scoring doesn’t incentivize it?

    There are prominent YouTubers mentioning it as a strategy for Nick Fury fights. You can be self righteous and complain about it and call it cheating but the scoring change incentivized it so you’re giving up an a tool in the toolbox by not using it. Hopefully highlighting it will get
    Kabam to make a change.

    No I can’t tell you nobody is doing it, or that the system doesn’t incentivise it. I never claimed either of those things, whereas you implied that the purpose of the pause is never specified, so there’s a chance it was meant to be used to exploit the game. When we both know that is a disingenuous argument.
    You use it to sneeze, some people use it when the accidentally push the defender to three bars of power. You chose to assume the intent is limited and label others as cheaters.
    Because sneezing doesn’t give me an exploitable advantage when I mess up. That’s why it’s ok to assume the intent is for… you know, pausing. Not because you pushed them to 3 bars of power.

    I’m in the CCP, would you like me to ask the developers them whether they think the pause button is more intended for a break in play if needed due to a real life situation, or if it’s intended to stop an opponent using an sp3 because you messed up?
    No, I’d like you to ask them what they intend do to prevent it from being used this way.

    Pausing has come up countless times on here. I don’t think Kabam has officially weighed in on it yet. Even if they did, I don’t know how they’d enforce something unless they make some changes to the system.

    So please ask if they plan to do anything about it because a stated intent doesn’t have much value.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Member Posts: 9,264 ★★★★★

    Where is the purpose for pausing spelled out in game?


    Can you seriously sit there and tell me with a straight face you think the pause button function is to stop fighting because you’re worried about taking more damage and losing?
    I can’t tell you what it’s intended for. I can just tell you how it can be used.


    Can you seriously sit there with a straight face and tell me nobody is doing it and the current scoring doesn’t incentivize it?

    There are prominent YouTubers mentioning it as a strategy for Nick Fury fights. You can be self righteous and complain about it and call it cheating but the scoring change incentivized it so you’re giving up an a tool in the toolbox by not using it. Hopefully highlighting it will get
    Kabam to make a change.

    No I can’t tell you nobody is doing it, or that the system doesn’t incentivise it. I never claimed either of those things, whereas you implied that the purpose of the pause is never specified, so there’s a chance it was meant to be used to exploit the game. When we both know that is a disingenuous argument.
    You use it to sneeze, some people use it when the accidentally push the defender to three bars of power. You chose to assume the intent is limited and label others as cheaters.
    Because sneezing doesn’t give me an exploitable advantage when I mess up. That’s why it’s ok to assume the intent is for… you know, pausing. Not because you pushed them to 3 bars of power.

    I’m in the CCP, would you like me to ask the developers them whether they think the pause button is more intended for a break in play if needed due to a real life situation, or if it’s intended to stop an opponent using an sp3 because you messed up?
    No, I’d like you to ask them what they intend do to prevent it from being used this way.

    Pausing has come up countless times on here. I don’t think Kabam has officially weighed in on it yet. Even if they did, I don’t know how they’d enforce something unless they make some changes to the system.

    So please ask if they plan to do anything about it because a stated intent doesn’t have much value.
    It’s very much an active conversation that a lot of people want sorted, because funnily enough not many people like cheating.

    If you want it prevented then you know it’s a dishonest strategy lol, so stop doing it?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★

    I'm not a fan of the new scoring personally. It's screwed results up.

    It hasn't screwed results up, results are exactly as they should be based on the scoring system, you just personally don't like them as fights are settled by closer margins more often.
    No. I'm not a fan of a scoring metric that makes keeping as much Health the main objective, when it only caters to a small demographic of Players who call that skill. There are other forms of skill.
    The old scoring had 3 things you had to focus on. Not just one. You're essentially saying keeping more Health is more important than taking your Opponent down before the other person. That means pausing is a tactic that is more lucrative.
    Also, yes. The Fight margins are too tight. That's an issue for me.
    There was nothing wrong with the scoring before. I disagree with the change.
    Do you not think that by focussing less on time it allows you to make a wider group of champions viable for the game mode instead of focussing on a smaller group of champions that can do fights really fast and don’t really care about keeping health? And hence means that your knowledge of the draft and RPG counters is rewarded more by building a successful deck and choosing the right counters

    For example, before the changes, if someone placed a Dr Doom, you would be better off using a Juggernaut, super fast counter that can nuke him down while losing 5-10% health. But that’s not an RPG counter, that’s just picking someone super fast who can nuke it faster than your opponent.

    Now, it’s a smarter choice to pick quicksilver for it. He’s not fast, but he absolutely counters everything about Doom, and more often than not will have a higher average health remaining than Juggs vs Doom. A player is rewarded more for picking a good counter. In some sense, there’s a lower reliance on skill in that particular example, because you need more skill to use juggernaut vs Doom than QS. But now you’re rewarded more for your strategy.


    Regarding the pause strategy, you and I agree on that, but it doesn’t mean the scoring changes are good or bad, just that it’s a more pressing issue to finally address and stop letting players be able to cheat using it.
    I think removing the time element removed a plethora of scenarios for a Win. It rewards people who can avoid getting hit, which is one aspect, but at the expense of those who actually down their Opponent, but lost more Health. Which makes absolutely no sense.
    Question. Do you justify someone winning who has full Health but took 2 minutes over someone who downed the Opponent in less time but has half Health? I don't.
    The time element wasn’t removed, it was reduced. Important to be accurate about these things imo.

    Absolutely I do, because it means you could throw a nuke like CGR at immortal Abom and screw the damage taken, you did it fast. That’s not skilful, that’s throwing a nuke at a champion who is objectively a bad matchup, playing bad but doing it fast.
    Then we will have to agree to disagree. There are Players who consider the only measure of skill to be not getting hit. Which is fine. When you center an entire game mode around rewarding that aspect and not rewarding the skill in choosing matchups (which goes into winning faster), then you're negating the whole process of Drafts and picks. The system was fine the way it was. It rewarded more than one definition of skill. Now it's limited to Players who are skilled with the same few God Tier Champs, and those who pride themselves on never getting hit. It decentivizes taking Damage.
    Incentivising taking damage sounds like the complete opposite of skilled play.

    Choosing matchups is completely centred around not taking damage and doing matches well and fast. Like my example before choosing juggernaut for a doom fight is not more RPG based than choosing QS for it. The draft phase has never been more important because before you could just use Jugs, CGR, ghost and nuke everything without skill or draft knowledge. Now you need to pick better options
    No one said incentivizing taking Damage was the suggestion I was making. However, when you make the majority focus on it, to the point where you can down your Opponent and lose because you lost less Health, that system isn't a competition.
    Also, I'm fully aware of the Champs. You might as well call it AA and Torch Grounds. The problem is, all this does is further exacerbate that issue because the same Champs are the ones who are downing Fights without taking Damage. I've banned enough to know it just highlights it..
    I feel like we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, which is fine. I don't agree with the current scoring change. That's how I feel.
    How on earth is the system not a competition? Just because you disagree with a change doesn’t make it not a competition.

    I would suggest focussing more on taking fights safely and keeping your health, pick drafts that you know are safe counters rather than quick ones. Know that your opponent is in the same position as you, and if they’re messing up then you can win the fight.

    That incentivises good drafting and safe play, good fighting. I’m not sure many people would argue that a player losing 50% of their health is playing very skilled.

    These changes don’t make torch or AA any more or less useful, so I’m not sure what point that raises for you.

    I disagree with the change because I disagree on only one definition of skill.
    YOUR opinion is that they're not very skilled. I was going to jump out of the conversation until the CCP comment. Frankly, that's good for you, but just because you're in the CCP and used to playing high GC doesn't mean your opinion is the only one that makes sense, and it certainly doesn't mean that the changes you would like to see are what's best for the entire system. There are other people playing the game mode.
    I find it incredibly disrespectful to pull that out in a conversation on the Forum. Not everyone is happy with the change. Not everyone agrees with you. Not everyone needs to see things your way because you put out YouTube content.
    This game mode is for a range of Players and a range of skill levels. It's not just about taking no Damage (which in all honesty has always been an ego boost for people aside from using Resources). What you're saying is your definition of skill should dictate the success of all Players in the competition, and that I wholeheartedly disagree with. On the basis of respect alone. Let alone the fact that all it does is accelerate the progress of only those who love to end Fights without getting hit, and leaves very little room for success for anyone who might be skilled but has taken a few hits. Block Penetration alone.
    With all due respect, you're not the only voice that matters on this.
    I'm done.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★
    I disagree that it’s dishonest.

    I would like it stopped because it drags out matches unnecessarily and because it ruffles so many feathers on here because some do share your views on it.

    I do see where you’re coming from but you could also look at is as saying “don’t use this one tool even though other players can still use it against you without consequence.”
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    This system rewards skill, so it's no surprise some don't like it.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,116 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Old system:
    50% doing damage
    25% health remaining
    25% time remaining

    New system:
    54.5% doing damage
    27.2% health remaining
    18% time remaining

    The 7-star champs will more often star as defenders, especially as stall defenders who force long fights. Whoever has the ability to place those defenders will have a leg up on time remaining and possibly other areas. I think these changes slightly lessen that advantage. Slightly.

    The scenario you describe is ridiculous and depends entirely on the time trade off. If I kill someone in 90 seconds with full health and you kill in 80 with half health, I’ve done a way better job and I deserve to win. Where the scales tip the other way, I dunno. Half health is a lot.
  • IamnikeIamnike Member Posts: 268 ★★
    I didn't think this post would cause such an uproar you guys are passionate.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    I said I'm done. I've made my points and I'm not doing word circles with anyone here. There was no reason to ruin the scoring. It's not an improvement. There is such thing as trying to make people happy to the point that it ruins the experience for others. That's about all I have to say.
  • xLunatiXxxLunatiXx Member Posts: 1,414 ★★★★★

    I'm not a fan of the new scoring personally. It's screwed results up.

    It hasn't screwed results up, results are exactly as they should be based on the scoring system, you just personally don't like them as fights are settled by closer margins more often.
    No. I'm not a fan of a scoring metric that makes keeping as much Health the main objective, when it only caters to a small demographic of Players who call that skill. There are other forms of skill.
    The old scoring had 3 things you had to focus on. Not just one. You're essentially saying keeping more Health is more important than taking your Opponent down before the other person. That means pausing is a tactic that is more lucrative.
    Also, yes. The Fight margins are too tight. That's an issue for me.
    There was nothing wrong with the scoring before. I disagree with the change.
    Do you not think that by focussing less on time it allows you to make a wider group of champions viable for the game mode instead of focussing on a smaller group of champions that can do fights really fast and don’t really care about keeping health? And hence means that your knowledge of the draft and RPG counters is rewarded more by building a successful deck and choosing the right counters

    For example, before the changes, if someone placed a Dr Doom, you would be better off using a Juggernaut, super fast counter that can nuke him down while losing 5-10% health. But that’s not an RPG counter, that’s just picking someone super fast who can nuke it faster than your opponent.

    Now, it’s a smarter choice to pick quicksilver for it. He’s not fast, but he absolutely counters everything about Doom, and more often than not will have a higher average health remaining than Juggs vs Doom. A player is rewarded more for picking a good counter. In some sense, there’s a lower reliance on skill in that particular example, because you need more skill to use juggernaut vs Doom than QS. But now you’re rewarded more for your strategy.


    Regarding the pause strategy, you and I agree on that, but it doesn’t mean the scoring changes are good or bad, just that it’s a more pressing issue to finally address and stop letting players be able to cheat using it.
    I think removing the time element removed a plethora of scenarios for a Win. It rewards people who can avoid getting hit, which is one aspect, but at the expense of those who actually down their Opponent, but lost more Health. Which makes absolutely no sense.
    Question. Do you justify someone winning who has full Health but took 2 minutes over someone who downed the Opponent in less time but has half Health? I don't.
    The time element wasn’t removed, it was reduced. Important to be accurate about these things imo.

    Absolutely I do, because it means you could throw a nuke like CGR at immortal Abom and screw the damage taken, you did it fast. That’s not skilful, that’s throwing a nuke at a champion who is objectively a bad matchup, playing bad but doing it fast.
    Then we will have to agree to disagree. There are Players who consider the only measure of skill to be not getting hit. Which is fine. When you center an entire game mode around rewarding that aspect and not rewarding the skill in choosing matchups (which goes into winning faster), then you're negating the whole process of Drafts and picks. The system was fine the way it was. It rewarded more than one definition of skill. Now it's limited to Players who are skilled with the same few God Tier Champs, and those who pride themselves on never getting hit. It decentivizes taking Damage.
    Incentivising taking damage sounds like the complete opposite of skilled play.

    Choosing matchups is completely centred around not taking damage and doing matches well and fast. Like my example before choosing juggernaut for a doom fight is not more RPG based than choosing QS for it. The draft phase has never been more important because before you could just use Jugs, CGR, ghost and nuke everything without skill or draft knowledge. Now you need to pick better options
    No one said incentivizing taking Damage was the suggestion I was making. However, when you make the majority focus on it, to the point where you can down your Opponent and lose because you lost less Health, that system isn't a competition.
    Also, I'm fully aware of the Champs. You might as well call it AA and Torch Grounds. The problem is, all this does is further exacerbate that issue because the same Champs are the ones who are downing Fights without taking Damage. I've banned enough to know it just highlights it..
    I feel like we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, which is fine. I don't agree with the current scoring change. That's how I feel.
    How on earth is the system not a competition? Just because you disagree with a change doesn’t make it not a competition.

    I would suggest focussing more on taking fights safely and keeping your health, pick drafts that you know are safe counters rather than quick ones. Know that your opponent is in the same position as you, and if they’re messing up then you can win the fight.

    That incentivises good drafting and safe play, good fighting. I’m not sure many people would argue that a player losing 50% of their health is playing very skilled.

    These changes don’t make torch or AA any more or less useful, so I’m not sure what point that raises for you.

    I disagree with the change because I disagree on only one definition of skill.
    YOUR opinion is that they're not very skilled. I was going to jump out of the conversation until the CCP comment. Frankly, that's good for you, but just because you're in the CCP and used to playing high GC doesn't mean your opinion is the only one that makes sense, and it certainly doesn't mean that the changes you would like to see are what's best for the entire system. There are other people playing the game mode.
    I find it incredibly disrespectful to pull that out in a conversation on the Forum. Not everyone is happy with the change. Not everyone agrees with you. Not everyone needs to see things your way because you put out YouTube content.
    This game mode is for a range of Players and a range of skill levels. It's not just about taking no Damage (which in all honesty has always been an ego boost for people aside from using Resources). What you're saying is your definition of skill should dictate the success of all Players in the competition, and that I wholeheartedly disagree with. On the basis of respect alone. Let alone the fact that all it does is accelerate the progress of only those who love to end Fights without getting hit, and leaves very little room for success for anyone who might be skilled but has taken a few hits. Block Penetration alone.
    With all due respect, you're not the only voice that matters on this.
    I'm done.
    Wow this is honestly some of the most disrespectful comments I've seen come from you @GroundedWisdom, sure you have opposing arguments often but you generally come across at least respectful.

    The way you've attacked someone because they mentioned CCP to another member when offering to ask for them about a pause function in game, it's disgusting and out of character.

    At no point has Bittersteel used the CCP or his own achievements in game nor mentioned Youtube (there are ccp that arent youtubers so to me this comes across as a premeditated agenda against youtubers) as a way to say his opinion is higher than others.

    Be better.
    Yeah I guess some people need a time off forum and breath some air
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    This change makes it more competitive...
    BG got nerfed to the ground, it was almost just a monthly grind to GC while collecting milestones..
    Makes it more competitive, between the bogus matchmaking and the new coin gain/loss system...
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★
    It all comes back to what you define as playing well. If you can’t win the fight in the time allotted I don’t think you played better than someone who did win the fight.

    If the scoring is going to change every season to constantly switch the meta, that’s one thing. If they are trying to find the right balance, this was a shift in the wrong direction to me.


  • LordSmasherLordSmasher Member Posts: 1,571 ★★★★★
    To me the scoring system is no different to the metas.
    You can adapt your play and roster to fit the parameters and get on with it.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,527 ★★★★★
    I am not sure if they hit the sweet spot yet but I feel these changes are a step in the right direction. It would always be painful to get a loss in nuke metas because my rank ups were more until it’s based even though I finished with way more health. I almost always performed way better in meta like armor burn because it involves skill-deck building, drafting and general knowledge about champs. I feel this change has given me and people like me more ability to compete.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    I am not sure if they hit the sweet spot yet but I feel these changes are a step in the right direction. It would always be painful to get a loss in nuke metas because my rank ups were more until it’s based even though I finished with way more health. I almost always performed way better in meta like armor burn because it involves skill-deck building, drafting and general knowledge about champs. I feel this change has given me and people like me more ability to compete.

    So they were able to use nodes to shift the meta away from a nuke fest?

    The fact that everyone is ok with a fighting game where you can get 3 KO’s in a row and your opponent can get 0 and you still lose is fascinating to me.
  • Graves_3 said:

    I am not sure if they hit the sweet spot yet but I feel these changes are a step in the right direction. It would always be painful to get a loss in nuke metas because my rank ups were more until it’s based even though I finished with way more health. I almost always performed way better in meta like armor burn because it involves skill-deck building, drafting and general knowledge about champs. I feel this change has given me and people like me more ability to compete.

    So they were able to use nodes to shift the meta away from a nuke fest?

    The fact that everyone is ok with a fighting game where you can get 3 KO’s in a row and your opponent can get 0 and you still lose is fascinating to me.
    And the fact that you're okay with a fighting game where you can get smacked 10 times playing recklessly and still win is fascinating to me.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,527 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    I am not sure if they hit the sweet spot yet but I feel these changes are a step in the right direction. It would always be painful to get a loss in nuke metas because my rank ups were more until it’s based even though I finished with way more health. I almost always performed way better in meta like armor burn because it involves skill-deck building, drafting and general knowledge about champs. I feel this change has given me and people like me more ability to compete.

    So they were able to use nodes to shift the meta away from a nuke fest?

    The fact that everyone is ok with a fighting game where you can get 3 KO’s in a row and your opponent can get 0 and you still lose is fascinating to me.
    Hence I said it’s not perfect yet maybe. But it’s a step in the right direction. I am no expert but kabam may have the data to decide on how to weight each component in subsequent seasons
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★
    Both players can get smacked 10 times but the guy who brought the tankier champ wins on percentage….that’s not skill either.

    Im starting to wonder how Groot will fare in this meta. Whenever I have enough gold he’s going to R2 to find out.
  • Both players can get smacked 10 times but the guy who brought the tankier champ wins on percentage….that’s not skill either.

    Im starting to wonder how Groot will fare in this meta. Whenever I have enough gold he’s going to R2 to find out.

    Then the guy with the tankier champion drafted better. I still consider drafting a major skill factor in BGs, I definitely don't think that should be ignored.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★

    "Skill"
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 931 ★★★★
    And I’d argue the guy who picked a champ who could still finish the fight in the time allotted drafted better. Hence why this thread is this long.

    Look at the fight I posted, I’d say my opponent drafted way better. Ultron is a much better counter for Sauron than Joe Fixit is for IBom. Joe Fixit just had more health and can regen more. I got hit twice as many time as he did and he won the fight 22 seconds faster and still lost.
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