Eliminate Story Progression based deals and Energy requirements

I wanted to get the community’s opinion on the below:

I feel like if players are spending money they should have access to the same rewards Cav/Thronebreaker/Paragon and that $$$ should hold the same value regardless of where you are in Story Progression. A dollar is a dollar and should hold the same value for people that are spending. Personally, I enjoy playing the game mainly for battlegrounds butI feel forced to play Story Mode to have access to better deals that come out on July 4th/Cyber Monday/Platinum track etc. and the gap between the deal offers is so far. I feel that people would also be enticed to spend if they knew they weren’t missing out on deals based on progression. Also, I feel the game has shifted more towards PVP (which I am really enjoying) and that things like Incursions, Story Mode, monthly events are a thing of the past so why are deals being based on story progression?

Can we also get rid of energy requirements? If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted. I think players would spend more time on the game if there wasn’t an energy requirement because who wants to blow units on energy?

Comments

Zekir

Okay, so say we get rid of story progression and let people build up to maximum roster with zero story content done. How is this ANY different from the issue with 1250 Mythic Crystals? Sure one was an abused exploit, and the other is spending real money. In the end, it's a lot of progression, for little to no work in game.

I personally would say no. Double up on no for the fact that, NOW you have to find out how to compensate the THOUSANDS of players who DID the story content JUST to get to the same point your suggesting new accounts should reach just because they're spending. Overall I believe it's a terrible idea.

If you don't mind my asking, are you stuck in Act 6 and that's why you decided to post this?

Furrymoosen

Man, 5 months left in the year and I don’t think there’s enough time to top this idea. Congrats.

Sundance_2099

wrekon1ze187

Getting 1,250 champions compared to acquiring a few thru bundle deals is entirely different. Also, if proven or uncollected get higher rank champions through deals what’s the issue? Every year it gets easier to beat different chapters as there is easier access to 5* and 6* now. For example it’s much easier to start a new account now and get your first 5* and blast through content than it was years ago. I don’t believe other top games have bundle deals based on where you are in game (COD with the battle pass, WoW with different deals that come out)

I was Thronebreaker for a while and put Paragon on hold to focus on Battlegrounds. After the huge gap between Thronebreaker and Paragon deals for July 4th and us getting bundled with Cav deals I’m 3/4 of the way to Paragon after starting this week. I just don’t enjoy the Story content and feel like it’s a repetitive cycle once Act 8 comes out and there’s a new title.

Terra

Not a good idea whatsoever.

Squirrelguy

1. Story content is a basic component of almost any game similar to this. It tends to exist for a reason. Some of those reasons are (but are not limited to):
- literally teaching players how to play the game
- Incrementally adding in new skills and nodes with a thought out and pretty reasonably paced progression of challenges
- some of the most fun and worthy fights in-game are in story content (and the whole point of the game is to have fun)
- Be a large collection of content for players to incrementally play through. Content is tough to adequately design and this version of the story content has been through many revisions.
- give some form of progression. You seem to advocate for the game never having achievement-based milestones. Many players don’t play the gave strictly for the pvp aspect (eg a large majority of players that have been around since before BGs) but enjoy the milestone completion and enjoy having a goal and working towards it.
- Juicy rewards that tend to be better than most places in-game if you’re not working for them 5 years after release

2. You can’t say the “whole game” is shifting towards pvp and list some of the many areas that are not directly pvp, as compared to the single direct pvp area of the game. Sure, BGs has become a great and popular part of the game, but to say that the whole game is shifting towards it is a vast overstatement. If they took out everything but BGs, the game wouldn’t last a month.

3. Progression based deals makes players want to progress. It gives you a sense of accomplishment by reaching higher levels. It is present for the same reason that players at early levels cannot immediately play the endgame difficulties of many parts of the game, or just pick which champions they want. If you are given everything to choose from or every endgame opportunity from day 1, motivation is thrown out the window and that’s one of the biggest reasons people play any game.

4. Energy is cheap. If you run out, and are complaining that your bought deals are not helping you out, then buy energy. Seems like a simple fix. If you deserve the best deals, making your way through story content shouldn’t take very long.

Abspain101

What I hear is I suck at story content so I want paragon rewards without earning them wah wah

altavista

You do realize that Progression deals and Energy requirements are core requirements baked into this Live Service game? There is a reason I keep playing this game with these live service trappings, and why I have not played Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy again after playing it once, despite really enjoying my time with it.

Live service methods are diabolical, but they clearly work.

If you eliminate energy requirements, people would spend less time with the game, not more. They might spend more time in the short term, but then get bored and spend less and less time with the game. As an example, if you stayed at an All-Inclusive resort, the first two days you might go for wild for every meal. After that, you would decrease how many times you go to the buffet, and how much you eat. After that, you might stop going entirely.

Similarly, if every player, regardless of progression level, were offered Paragon level deals, people might spend more in the short term, but over time spend less. If an Uncollected player can spend the same amount as a Paragon player on the 4th of July and become a Paragon in less than a week, then I would wager that that former Uncollected player will stop playing the game after a month. It is the same idea as activating God-mode in a video game - fun for a few weeks, but you get bored after a short while since you didn't earn anything and things are trivial.

I was Thronebreaker for a while and put Paragon on hold to focus on Battlegrounds. After the huge gap between Thronebreaker and Paragon deals for July 4th and us getting bundled with Cav deals I’m 3/4 of the way to Paragon after starting this week. I just don’t enjoy the Story content and feel like it’s a repetitive cycle once Act 8 comes out and there’s a new title.

The reasoning is even baked in your own post:. Endless Progression is not something most players go with; there has to be additional carrots dangled. Daily and hourly Paragon level crystals were clearly not enough for a player like you to want to go from TB to Paragon since you put it on the backburner. So if the specific regular rewards associated with a title are not enough, then potentially exclusive content might entice more players. As you say, the progression based offers are clearly working to make players like yourself want to progress to Paragon.

Of course, there are players who will keep playing if there are no limits on energy, or spend if there are no distinction between progressions. And different video games have different strategies to get players to keep playing without having progression deals / energy limits. But I would wager that a larger number of players would stop playing this specific game entirely.

ReignkingTW

Awesome.

I've played this game for 8 years, and you just want people to buy their way to the top immediately?

Greekhit

We are at the point where we have players with several ranked up 6*s and 7*s complaining, because they don’t even want to do the multiple times heavily nerfed Act6, and the easy Act7 and Act8, which they would stroll with such firepower like doing EQ.
If I was Kabam, I would lock next progression title behind all story content exploration up to the latest Act/chapter.
Players have gotten very lazy nowadays as it seems.
They have been spoiled, because of their speed upped progress at early game, and they expect the game on it’s high end should be like that too.
Side effect from Kabam propelling new accounts faster.

Pikolu

Just when you think you've hit rock bottom with bad ideas, a new and and improved bad idea shows you there is still more room to go down more

Captainaiden

MrSakuragi

There’s already cavs with multiple 6r4s. It doesn’t need to be made easier.

Bee2Jay

A game without a STORY is no game
Just like a house without Foundation or Plan
So bro, you gotta re-read what you wrote up there and think to yourself, how would i get here (your current age and life experience) if you weren't born and pass through that GROWTH stage of LIFE

GroundedWisdom

As much as I believe spending is an important part of the game, it's not something that should take the place of actual game play and progression.

Vegeta9001

Let's let a Conqueror buy some t6b t3a and 10 paragon crystals.

XFREEDOMX

Getting 1,250 champions compared to acquiring a few thru bundle deals is entirely different. Also, if proven or uncollected get higher rank champions through deals what’s the issue? Every year it gets easier to beat different chapters as there is easier access to 5* and 6* now. For example it’s much easier to start a new account now and get your first 5* and blast through content than it was years ago. I don’t believe other top games have bundle deals based on where you are in game (COD with the battle pass, WoW with different deals that come out)

I was Thronebreaker for a while and put Paragon on hold to focus on Battlegrounds. After the huge gap between Thronebreaker and Paragon deals for July 4th and us getting bundled with Cav deals I’m 3/4 of the way to Paragon after starting this week. I just don’t enjoy the Story content and feel like it’s a repetitive cycle once Act 8 comes out and there’s a new title.

The issue is, story progression is a learning curve! Just like you have to go through elementary, middle, high school then college/university. You can't just go straight to college/university just because you have a heavy wallet.

ShiroMikazuki

How to gain a ton of disagrees without trying 101.

ahmynuts

Every single day we see worse and worse ideas. I didnt think we would reach the absolute peak of them this fast. There is nothing that can top this idea. Shut the forums down. Time to pack it up and go home everyone

Stature

A more interesting discussion could be that if there can be alternate paths to title progression. Should story be the only way to measure skill in the game?

Can someone playing consistently at high AW or AQ tiers be considered good enough? Say to be upgraded from UC to Cav. How about someone who has cleared monthly EQ 3 times in a row?

There are many places in the game one can build skills. With the expansion in game modes (BG mainly), time is a constraint for most people. There are time sensitive monthly events (AQ, war, BG, EQ/SQ). Permanent content does take a back seat. Offering alternate paths to progression may not be a bad option.

There’s already cavs with multiple 6r4s. It doesn’t need to be made easier.

This will happen irrespective of changes in titles. By the end of the year (with CW and Banquet), most Cavs will have multiple R4s.

LeNoirFaineant

I can't remember the last time I used units for energy.

Squirrelguy

A more interesting discussion could be that if there can be alternate paths to title progression. Should story be the only way to measure skill in the game?

Can someone playing consistently at high AW or AQ tiers be considered good enough? Say to be upgraded from UC to Cav. How about someone who has cleared monthly EQ 3 times in a row?

There are many places in the game one can build skills. With the expansion in game modes (BG mainly), time is a constraint for most people. There are time sensitive monthly events (AQ, war, BG, EQ/SQ). Permanent content does take a back seat. Offering alternate paths to progression may not be a bad option.
There’s already cavs with multiple 6r4s. It doesn’t need to be made easier.
This will happen irrespective of changes in titles. By the end of the year (with CW and Banquet), most Cavs will have multiple R4s.

The problem in grading the progression of a player in AQ/AW/Incursions (and probably another similar area that I'm forgetting) is that the challenge is variable and often can include other players. This, while not technically impossible, just wouldn't be a good idea in terms of game design. The point in setting progression behind story content is that it is the same (leaving nerfs out of the discussion, but they tend to illustrate why changing markers of progress is not well received) and doesn't vary in difficulty/situation from player to player. Sure, there are many places that players can learn skills, but Story content tends to be the place that skill progression is best ramped up.

Also, your point doesn't really answer their point. They mean that better deals/champs/rankup mats shouldn't be made as easily available to lower players as they are to endgame players. Eventual power creep is impossible to stop, but that doesnt mean that we should increase it to ridiculous levels without thought for game economy and design.

klobberintyme

I wanted to get the community’s opinion on the below:

I feel like if players are spending money they should have access to the same rewards Cav/Thronebreaker/Paragon and that $$$ should hold the same value regardless of where you are in Story Progression. A dollar is a dollar and should hold the same value for people that are spending. Personally, I enjoy playing the game mainly for battlegrounds butI feel forced to play Story Mode to have access to better deals that come out on July 4th/Cyber Monday/Platinum track etc. and the gap between the deal offers is so far. I feel that people would also be enticed to spend if they knew they weren’t missing out on deals based on progression. Also, I feel the game has shifted more towards PVP (which I am really enjoying) and that things like Incursions, Story Mode, monthly events are a thing of the past so why are deals being based on story progression?

Can we also get rid of energy requirements? If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted. I think players would spend more time on the game if there wasn’t an energy requirement because who wants to blow units on energy?

i like it. let's go one step further, just like my CD tiers, the rewards levels should be set at specific spend thresholds. $1-$999 is UC, $1,000-$9,999 Cav, $10,000-$49,999 TB, $50,000-$99,999 Paragon, and $100,000-$249,999 Whale Lord.

DNA3000

I feel like if players are spending money they should have access to the same rewards Cav/Thronebreaker/Paragon and that $$$ should hold the same value regardless of where you are in Story Progression. A dollar is a dollar and should hold the same value for people that are spending.

Because you think you're buying things, so everyone should be able to buy the same things.

You're not.

You're paying for an enhanced experience. In most cases, you're basically paying for time. What others spend time earning, you are spending cash to get quicker. But that doesn't mean you get to skip steps. If a player does X Y Z to get access to a certain part of the game, including higher rewards, then whether you spend cash or not you still have to get through X Y Z as well. Spending cash can make it easier to go through X Y Z, but it doesn't eliminate those steps. If only Paragons get access to the Paragon store, you have to become Paragon to get access to that store also. Even if you are a spender. You can spend to get to Paragon, you can spend to speed up the process of getting to Paragon, but you do not get to skip the steps of becoming Paragon.

Because this is a progressional game, and the whole point is progression. You can play through the progression ladder, or you can spend to speed up your path through the progression ladder, but your cash doesn't grant you the ability to ignore the progression ladder. Again: you are not buying things. You are spending money to enhance your game experience. That's all.

DNA3000

Can we also get rid of energy requirements?

No.

If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted.

Also no.

I almost never buy energy refills. In fact the last time I did so was by accident. The last time I bought energy refills with units for a deliberate purpose was probably over four years ago. However, I also do everything. What do I mean by everything? Every month, for the last four or five years, I have done every tier of monthly EQ and every possible path and option of SQ. Every path. I also do Battlegrounds, mostly with energy. I did over two hundred rounds of BG with energy *and* fully explored every EQ and SQ path in every tier in June *and* on track to do the same in July. Energy refills bought: zero.

Energy is a constraint, but it is a constraint that can be worked around if you manage your play and are reasonably active. It is one of the things that players are expected to manage along with every other resource in the game.

DNA3000

A more interesting discussion could be that if there can be alternate paths to title progression. Should story be the only way to measure skill in the game?

Can someone playing consistently at high AW or AQ tiers be considered good enough? Say to be upgraded from UC to Cav. How about someone who has cleared monthly EQ 3 times in a row?

No. We're not "grading" players with the story arcs. We are specifically creating a progression ladder for the players to traverse. We don't say "marathons grade runner performance, but there are many other ways to assess whether someone is a good runner, so maybe we should give people credit for a few miles of the New York marathon if they demonstrate those skills. That's nonsensical, because the purpose of the New York marathon is not to judge runners. It is to present runners with a specific task to perform. Only performance in that specific task should count, because that's the point.

Story arcs is one of the tasks the game content is explicitly designed to present a challenge suitable for gating progressional titles. It isn't there to judge whether you are worthy of the next title. It is there to complete as a prerequisite for progress.

In theory the game could create alternate paths to progress. I've had many interesting discussions in the past on that subject (Brian Grant aka ContestChampion once had a ton of such interesting ideas) but none of the other content in the game is currently *designed* to present such challenges in a way that would be progression balanced. We don't judge individual performance in AQ and AW. We can't judge performance in BG without sophisticated analysis due to the way the match maker works. Solo content outside of the story arcs aren't balanced for progress - in fact isolating progress gates to story content *releases* the developers to design the other solo content without having to worry about the progression implications of that content.

While none of this is impossible, at the moment is it worth the time and resources to create and the complexity increase in progression (having to explain to players that progression requires this, or this and that, or that and this other thing and three of those)? Probably not.

SuelGames

1 wasnt enough

You had to throw 2 horrible ideas

I cant tell which one was worse tbh

Disagree record maybe?

SirGamesBond

I wanted to get the community’s opinion on the below:

I feel like if players are spending money they should have access to the same rewards Cav/Thronebreaker/Paragon and that $$$ should hold the same value regardless of where you are in Story Progression. A dollar is a dollar and should hold the same value for people that are spending. Personally, I enjoy playing the game mainly for battlegrounds butI feel forced to play Story Mode to have access to better deals that come out on July 4th/Cyber Monday/Platinum track etc. and the gap between the deal offers is so far. I feel that people would also be enticed to spend if they knew they weren’t missing out on deals based on progression. Also, I feel the game has shifted more towards PVP (which I am really enjoying) and that things like Incursions, Story Mode, monthly events are a thing of the past so why are deals being based on story progression?

Can we also get rid of energy requirements? If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted. I think players would spend more time on the game if there wasn’t an energy requirement because who wants to blow units on energy?

I agree.

Maat1985

and people say this game is already P2W.
well then lets just let someone jump into the game and immediately have #1 account in the game if the spend enough.

lets just totally devalue hard work and time spent.

WALLET WARRIORS UNITE!

ahmynuts

1 wasnt enough

You had to throw 2 horrible ideas

I cant tell which one was worse tbh

Disagree record maybe?

I think only posts by Kabam reach this many disagrees tbh lol