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Eliminate Story Progression based deals and Energy requirements

I wanted to get the community’s opinion on the below:

I feel like if players are spending money they should have access to the same rewards Cav/Thronebreaker/Paragon and that $$$ should hold the same value regardless of where you are in Story Progression. A dollar is a dollar and should hold the same value for people that are spending. Personally, I enjoy playing the game mainly for battlegrounds butI feel forced to play Story Mode to have access to better deals that come out on July 4th/Cyber Monday/Platinum track etc. and the gap between the deal offers is so far. I feel that people would also be enticed to spend if they knew they weren’t missing out on deals based on progression. Also, I feel the game has shifted more towards PVP (which I am really enjoying) and that things like Incursions, Story Mode, monthly events are a thing of the past so why are deals being based on story progression?

Can we also get rid of energy requirements? If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted. I think players would spend more time on the game if there wasn’t an energy requirement because who wants to blow units on energy?
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    wrekon1ze187wrekon1ze187 Posts: 20
    Getting 1,250 champions compared to acquiring a few thru bundle deals is entirely different. Also, if proven or uncollected get higher rank champions through deals what’s the issue? Every year it gets easier to beat different chapters as there is easier access to 5* and 6* now. For example it’s much easier to start a new account now and get your first 5* and blast through content than it was years ago. I don’t believe other top games have bundle deals based on where you are in game (COD with the battle pass, WoW with different deals that come out)

    I was Thronebreaker for a while and put Paragon on hold to focus on Battlegrounds. After the huge gap between Thronebreaker and Paragon deals for July 4th and us getting bundled with Cav deals I’m 3/4 of the way to Paragon after starting this week. I just don’t enjoy the Story content and feel like it’s a repetitive cycle once Act 8 comes out and there’s a new title.
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    altavistaaltavista Posts: 1,353 ★★★★
    You do realize that Progression deals and Energy requirements are core requirements baked into this Live Service game? There is a reason I keep playing this game with these live service trappings, and why I have not played Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy again after playing it once, despite really enjoying my time with it.

    Live service methods are diabolical, but they clearly work.

    If you eliminate energy requirements, people would spend less time with the game, not more. They might spend more time in the short term, but then get bored and spend less and less time with the game. As an example, if you stayed at an All-Inclusive resort, the first two days you might go for wild for every meal. After that, you would decrease how many times you go to the buffet, and how much you eat. After that, you might stop going entirely.

    Similarly, if every player, regardless of progression level, were offered Paragon level deals, people might spend more in the short term, but over time spend less. If an Uncollected player can spend the same amount as a Paragon player on the 4th of July and become a Paragon in less than a week, then I would wager that that former Uncollected player will stop playing the game after a month. It is the same idea as activating God-mode in a video game - fun for a few weeks, but you get bored after a short while since you didn't earn anything and things are trivial.

    I was Thronebreaker for a while and put Paragon on hold to focus on Battlegrounds. After the huge gap between Thronebreaker and Paragon deals for July 4th and us getting bundled with Cav deals I’m 3/4 of the way to Paragon after starting this week. I just don’t enjoy the Story content and feel like it’s a repetitive cycle once Act 8 comes out and there’s a new title.

    The reasoning is even baked in your own post:. Endless Progression is not something most players go with; there has to be additional carrots dangled. Daily and hourly Paragon level crystals were clearly not enough for a player like you to want to go from TB to Paragon since you put it on the backburner. So if the specific regular rewards associated with a title are not enough, then potentially exclusive content might entice more players. As you say, the progression based offers are clearly working to make players like yourself want to progress to Paragon.

    Of course, there are players who will keep playing if there are no limits on energy, or spend if there are no distinction between progressions. And different video games have different strategies to get players to keep playing without having progression deals / energy limits. But I would wager that a larger number of players would stop playing this specific game entirely.


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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,388 ★★★★★
    As much as I believe spending is an important part of the game, it's not something that should take the place of actual game play and progression.
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    XFREEDOMXXFREEDOMX Posts: 522 ★★★

    Getting 1,250 champions compared to acquiring a few thru bundle deals is entirely different. Also, if proven or uncollected get higher rank champions through deals what’s the issue? Every year it gets easier to beat different chapters as there is easier access to 5* and 6* now. For example it’s much easier to start a new account now and get your first 5* and blast through content than it was years ago. I don’t believe other top games have bundle deals based on where you are in game (COD with the battle pass, WoW with different deals that come out)

    I was Thronebreaker for a while and put Paragon on hold to focus on Battlegrounds. After the huge gap between Thronebreaker and Paragon deals for July 4th and us getting bundled with Cav deals I’m 3/4 of the way to Paragon after starting this week. I just don’t enjoy the Story content and feel like it’s a repetitive cycle once Act 8 comes out and there’s a new title.

    The issue is, story progression is a learning curve! Just like you have to go through elementary, middle, high school then college/university. You can't just go straight to college/university just because you have a heavy wallet.
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    StatureStature Posts: 426 ★★★
    A more interesting discussion could be that if there can be alternate paths to title progression. Should story be the only way to measure skill in the game?

    Can someone playing consistently at high AW or AQ tiers be considered good enough? Say to be upgraded from UC to Cav. How about someone who has cleared monthly EQ 3 times in a row?

    There are many places in the game one can build skills. With the expansion in game modes (BG mainly), time is a constraint for most people. There are time sensitive monthly events (AQ, war, BG, EQ/SQ). Permanent content does take a back seat. Offering alternate paths to progression may not be a bad option.

    There’s already cavs with multiple 6r4s. It doesn’t need to be made easier.

    This will happen irrespective of changes in titles. By the end of the year (with CW and Banquet), most Cavs will have multiple R4s.
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    SquirrelguySquirrelguy Posts: 2,652 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    A more interesting discussion could be that if there can be alternate paths to title progression. Should story be the only way to measure skill in the game?

    Can someone playing consistently at high AW or AQ tiers be considered good enough? Say to be upgraded from UC to Cav. How about someone who has cleared monthly EQ 3 times in a row?

    There are many places in the game one can build skills. With the expansion in game modes (BG mainly), time is a constraint for most people. There are time sensitive monthly events (AQ, war, BG, EQ/SQ). Permanent content does take a back seat. Offering alternate paths to progression may not be a bad option.

    There’s already cavs with multiple 6r4s. It doesn’t need to be made easier.

    This will happen irrespective of changes in titles. By the end of the year (with CW and Banquet), most Cavs will have multiple R4s.
    The problem in grading the progression of a player in AQ/AW/Incursions (and probably another similar area that I'm forgetting) is that the challenge is variable and often can include other players. This, while not technically impossible, just wouldn't be a good idea in terms of game design. The point in setting progression behind story content is that it is the same (leaving nerfs out of the discussion, but they tend to illustrate why changing markers of progress is not well received) and doesn't vary in difficulty/situation from player to player. Sure, there are many places that players can learn skills, but Story content tends to be the place that skill progression is best ramped up.

    Also, your point doesn't really answer their point. They mean that better deals/champs/rankup mats shouldn't be made as easily available to lower players as they are to endgame players. Eventual power creep is impossible to stop, but that doesnt mean that we should increase it to ridiculous levels without thought for game economy and design.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 19,081 Guardian

    Can we also get rid of energy requirements?

    No.

    If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted.

    Also no.

    I almost never buy energy refills. In fact the last time I did so was by accident. The last time I bought energy refills with units for a deliberate purpose was probably over four years ago. However, I also do everything. What do I mean by everything? Every month, for the last four or five years, I have done every tier of monthly EQ and every possible path and option of SQ. Every path. I also do Battlegrounds, mostly with energy. I did over two hundred rounds of BG with energy *and* fully explored every EQ and SQ path in every tier in June *and* on track to do the same in July. Energy refills bought: zero.

    Energy is a constraint, but it is a constraint that can be worked around if you manage your play and are reasonably active. It is one of the things that players are expected to manage along with every other resource in the game.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 19,081 Guardian
    Stature said:

    A more interesting discussion could be that if there can be alternate paths to title progression. Should story be the only way to measure skill in the game?

    Can someone playing consistently at high AW or AQ tiers be considered good enough? Say to be upgraded from UC to Cav. How about someone who has cleared monthly EQ 3 times in a row?

    No. We're not "grading" players with the story arcs. We are specifically creating a progression ladder for the players to traverse. We don't say "marathons grade runner performance, but there are many other ways to assess whether someone is a good runner, so maybe we should give people credit for a few miles of the New York marathon if they demonstrate those skills. That's nonsensical, because the purpose of the New York marathon is not to judge runners. It is to present runners with a specific task to perform. Only performance in that specific task should count, because that's the point.

    Story arcs is one of the tasks the game content is explicitly designed to present a challenge suitable for gating progressional titles. It isn't there to judge whether you are worthy of the next title. It is there to complete as a prerequisite for progress.

    In theory the game could create alternate paths to progress. I've had many interesting discussions in the past on that subject (Brian Grant aka ContestChampion once had a ton of such interesting ideas) but none of the other content in the game is currently *designed* to present such challenges in a way that would be progression balanced. We don't judge individual performance in AQ and AW. We can't judge performance in BG without sophisticated analysis due to the way the match maker works. Solo content outside of the story arcs aren't balanced for progress - in fact isolating progress gates to story content *releases* the developers to design the other solo content without having to worry about the progression implications of that content.

    While none of this is impossible, at the moment is it worth the time and resources to create and the complexity increase in progression (having to explain to players that progression requires this, or this and that, or that and this other thing and three of those)? Probably not.
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    SuelGamesSuelGames Posts: 947 ★★★
    1 wasnt enough

    You had to throw 2 horrible ideas

    I cant tell which one was worse tbh

    Disagree record maybe?
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    SirGamesBondSirGamesBond Posts: 4,544 ★★★★★

    I wanted to get the community’s opinion on the below:

    I feel like if players are spending money they should have access to the same rewards Cav/Thronebreaker/Paragon and that $$$ should hold the same value regardless of where you are in Story Progression. A dollar is a dollar and should hold the same value for people that are spending. Personally, I enjoy playing the game mainly for battlegrounds butI feel forced to play Story Mode to have access to better deals that come out on July 4th/Cyber Monday/Platinum track etc. and the gap between the deal offers is so far. I feel that people would also be enticed to spend if they knew they weren’t missing out on deals based on progression. Also, I feel the game has shifted more towards PVP (which I am really enjoying) and that things like Incursions, Story Mode, monthly events are a thing of the past so why are deals being based on story progression?

    Can we also get rid of energy requirements? If you aren’t buying energy constantly there are only a handful of things you can do in the game before your energy is depleted. I think players would spend more time on the game if there wasn’t an energy requirement because who wants to blow units on energy?

    I agree.
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    Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 2,237 ★★★★
    and people say this game is already P2W.
    well then lets just let someone jump into the game and immediately have #1 account in the game if the spend enough.

    lets just totally devalue hard work and time spent.

    WALLET WARRIORS UNITE!
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,753 ★★★★★
    SuelGames said:

    1 wasnt enough

    You had to throw 2 horrible ideas

    I cant tell which one was worse tbh

    Disagree record maybe?

    I think only posts by Kabam reach this many disagrees tbh lol
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