Who is the Optimal Candidate for R5?

I like both of these champions. I see pros and cons for prioritizing either over the other. I run 5/5 Deep Wounds. Valkyrie is sig 200.

Comments

PantherusNZ

They're both very different and it depends on what you're struggling with more.

Fury is easier to use, helps with avoiding Miss mechanics, and relies on Bleeds to do the most of his damage

Valk is much trickier to use, completely shuts down unstoppable, and relies on attacking into blocks.

Bigfoot33

I'd say valkyrie benefits more (benefits probably the wrong word). But Nick can get by at R4. PantherusNZ has great points.

I'd push back slightly that she relies on hitting into blocks. To ramp, you can hit them or the block. Yes she does way more damage into the block once the pierce are going. And sp2 into block is key.

Valkyrie is amazing at dealing with unstoppable cause it's not a debuff placed on the defender. And technically she's a power control champ because you're hitting into block. She's ramping but they're getting way less power.

Armageddøn

I have both at R4 currently but I'll go with Nick first

Jack2634

5/5 deep wounds is an easy nick fury choice due to his versatility . A god at both offense and defense , as an attacker , having a 2nd life give you an open window for riskier playstyle

phillgreen

I have the same problem, except its between Fury and Kingpin.

Polygon

I have the same problem, except its between Fury and Kingpin.

If fury didn’t rely on having deep wounds id say him, but theres not just not enough champs that benefit from it compared to those that benefit from max petrify for instance

phillgreen

I have a few bleeders I use regularly and 4 points in DW.

Armageddøn

I have the same problem, except its between Fury and Kingpin.

I went with KP he's a better choice for BGs

Milan1405

Nick Fury is the undisputed best skill champ if he is sig 200 and with 5/5 deep wounds. Ridiculously good for aw and bgs offence and defence as long as he has both of the above requirements. I have both at r5 and use my nick every day but valk only occasionally.

Milan1405

I have the same problem, except its between Fury and Kingpin.
I went with KP he's a better choice for BGs

I disagree with that. Sig 200 Nick Fury is unquestionably a much better defender than kingpin in almost every meta, as he is a huge timewaster with that second life and his sp1 takes ages if he decides to throw it, can go unblockable etc. Only a few counters like toad and peni exist and even then sometimes with peni he throws sp1 at the wrong time and goes unblockable and I just have to wait it out until he goes back to 14 charges. Toad is probably the best option against him, whereas pretty much most champs do fine against kp and kill him no problem in sub one minute which rarely happens to my sig 200 r5 nick. Kp is often the better attacker tho, but nick fury (assuming he has max deep wounds) is one of the best options for quicksilver, absolutely destroying him and makes the fight very easy, and can destroy spot, void etc. I believe NF kills dr dooms faster than KP if he has max deep wounds. Also he has that trick (bit difficult to master) where you just go ham fighting the opponent and take damage, then trigger your second life just before killing the opponent to end with 95%+ health, very useful against electros and other damage back champs/nodes or just tough defenders or even if you mess up and take an sp3.

Polygon

I have the same problem, except its between Fury and Kingpin.
I went with KP he's a better choice for BGs
I disagree with that. Sig 200 Nick Fury is unquestionably a much better defender than kingpin in almost every meta, as he is a huge timewaster with that second life and his sp1 takes ages if he decides to throw it, can go unblockable etc. Only a few counters like toad and peni exist and even then sometimes with peni he throws sp1 at the wrong time and goes unblockable and I just have to wait it out until he goes back to 14 charges. Toad is probably the best option against him, whereas pretty much most champs do fine against kp and kill him no problem in sub one minute which rarely happens to my sig 200 r5 nick. Kp is often the better attacker tho, but nick fury (assuming he has max deep wounds) is one of the best options for quicksilver, absolutely destroying him and makes the fight very easy, and can destroy spot, void etc. I believe NF kills dr dooms faster than KP if he has max deep wounds. Also he has that trick (bit difficult to master) where you just go ham fighting the opponent and take damage, then trigger your second life just before killing the opponent to end with 95%+ health, very useful against electros and other damage back champs/nodes or just tough defenders or even if you mess up and take an sp3.

@Milan1405 the problem is being able to fit 5 points in DW.

Lets look a quick breakdown for no suicides

1 point in courage
2 in despair (minimum)
5 in cruelty/precision
1 in assassin
5/5 in stupefy

Now , its not required but its beneficial to max willpower even if youre not running suicides just based on champs like KP or facing debuff champs so
Willpower 3/3

The above is pretty much a given with the exception of WP which is good to max

Now if you play BGs, 5/5 MD for defence is a must.

Lastly, i have my petrify at 3/3 because it helps reduce regen rate/power gain when stunned which is good for parry heavy champs, CGR, and in general having to bait less specials cause enemy gets power slower.

With all that I don’t see how it’s possible to fit 5/5 in DW. One might correct me and say for eg “you dont need 3 in petrify or WP” but more champs benefit from these than the few amount that do from WP.

Which takes me to my final point , the fact that NF relies on maxing out a mastery when theres just not enough room makes him inferior to KP imo

Milan1405

I have the same problem, except its between Fury and Kingpin.
I went with KP he's a better choice for BGs
I disagree with that. Sig 200 Nick Fury is unquestionably a much better defender than kingpin in almost every meta, as he is a huge timewaster with that second life and his sp1 takes ages if he decides to throw it, can go unblockable etc. Only a few counters like toad and peni exist and even then sometimes with peni he throws sp1 at the wrong time and goes unblockable and I just have to wait it out until he goes back to 14 charges. Toad is probably the best option against him, whereas pretty much most champs do fine against kp and kill him no problem in sub one minute which rarely happens to my sig 200 r5 nick. Kp is often the better attacker tho, but nick fury (assuming he has max deep wounds) is one of the best options for quicksilver, absolutely destroying him and makes the fight very easy, and can destroy spot, void etc. I believe NF kills dr dooms faster than KP if he has max deep wounds. Also he has that trick (bit difficult to master) where you just go ham fighting the opponent and take damage, then trigger your second life just before killing the opponent to end with 95%+ health, very useful against electros and other damage back champs/nodes or just tough defenders or even if you mess up and take an sp3.
@Milan1405 the problem is being able to fit 5 points in DW.

Lets look a quick breakdown for no suicides

1 point in courage
2 in despair (minimum)
5 in cruelty/precision
1 in assassin
5/5 in stupefy

Now , its not required but its beneficial to max willpower even if youre not running suicides just based on champs like KP or facing debuff champs so
Willpower 3/3

The above is pretty much a given with the exception of WP which is good to max

Now if you play BGs, 5/5 MD for defence is a must.

Lastly, i have my petrify at 3/3 because it helps reduce regen rate/power gain when stunned which is good for parry heavy champs, CGR, and in general having to bait less specials cause enemy gets power slower.

With all that I don’t see how it’s possible to fit 5/5 in DW. One might correct me and say for eg “you dont need 3 in petrify or WP” but more champs benefit from these than the few amount that do from WP.

Which takes me to my final point , the fact that NF relies on maxing out a mastery when theres just not enough room makes him inferior to KP imo

So I run 18 points in defence (like pretty much everyone for 3/3 willpower). Then I run 4/5 points in MD (5/5 actually makes some of my mystic attackers worse on offence as they gain power too fast and I get pushed to sp3 then I only bother with 1 point in petrify I think. So that gives you enough for an offence tree like this:

Basically it comes down to how valuable your bleed champs are as the mastery is very useful for a lot of them like venom, blade, joe fixit, carnage etc; even archangel those extra 2.5 seconds lasting bleeds can be very useful to apply more poisons to convert depending on AI and nodes that make u wait around.

But that 5/5 deep wounds literally triples NF damage output or something silly and makes him one of the highest damage dealers for medium length fights in second life, and importantly it makes his first life viable to play which completely changes the champ, especially useful in war. Also you give the opponent less power as I usually parry or light intercept then just do LLLL (omitting the medium attack) as most of his damage comes from that bleed so opponents can throw specials a bit less.

His bleed becomes so strong he is able to clear nodes that he absolutely shouldn't be able to like hazard shift void! He can deal with power gain nodes by just tanking the sp3 and going into his next life if needed and he has a great purify mechanic and can just ignore miss and evade and autoblock and stun which is epic. A lot of the time I just ignore protection nodes and his bleed just powers through and kills them as it is so strong which is very useful if you have to intercept rhino or nova or something. I think most die-hard NF players like me would probably agree that without deep wounds and high sig he is probably 3rd best skill champ but with those 2 I reckon he becomes top skill champ and he just outclasses my r5 sig 200 kingpin in battlegrounds and war (to my initial surprise).

Bulmkt

Easy choice - Mr Fury

Vanitelia

You could drop a point from the Cruelty mastery and keep it at 4/5. Also, when BG's are up, I drop MD to 4/5 to make sure I don't shoot up to the SP3 too quickly.

pseudosane

There is no wrong answer. Both benefit hugely.