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The Death of Point Farming

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    crogs said:

    I don't care. I don't play it enough to be on their radar. Thought the enlistment crystals would do it, but no. Sometimes in BG, I just don't care, play stupid aggressive and lose. Get my points and move on. If they want to ban me for trying to get the most rewards for the least amount of work, fine by me.

    Is it really that different than auto fighting easy road with 7*'s for hero use and class combat events? That sound like point farming. I'm out of energy but want to get some event points... Half heartedly go into BG and play stupidly. Same difference to me.

    Next they'll start scrutinizing AQ. We're mostly Paragon and thronebreakers playing map 2 & 3 because it's dirt easy, and we're done so quick we can enjoy not being in the game. Are they going to start forcing us to do harder AQ because our accounts are capable of doing higher maps?

    So whatever. They'll do what they do. Design something and then they aren't happy because people are getting rewards they don't think were fully earned in their eyes... Sounds like sour grapes to me. Screw'em. Design it better. Spell out rewards better. Kinda comical when they design something that gets unintended results, and their knee jerk reaction is to punish. Yawn.

    Why would they have a problem with paragons doing easier difficulties, they receive less rewards either way, and it's not like that affects anyone cause it not a "pvp" mode
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    Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,529 ★★★★★
    flapjax said:

    @crogs the main difference is that in battlegrounds, farming is against actual players. High tier accounts were sitting in vt creating a wall that progressing players couldn’t get around.

    Edit: sorry this post is a little late, my original posts kept getting rejected for some reason.

    I'm genuinely curious how much of this is a real issue with point farmers and not just BGs being BGs.

    Not every Paragon player rushes to the GC, most seasons I just do 3 games every 2 days and slowly make my way there by the end of the season or do a last minute push.

    Most of the complaints about unfair match making talk about Plat 2, which is where the training wheels come off for smaller accounts. While they very well be running into some point farmers, there's also a chance they're just running into regular players.

    If they really want to tackle point farming, the correct path would be to remove the incentive to do so, rather than trying to punish people for trying to make the most of the poorly designed system they put in place.
    You may be right, but we won’t know how much point farming amplified this wall at platinum 2 until it’s actually dealt with. I expect this to at least ease the sudden change of no longer having matchmaking as a shield.

    However I do agree that they should’ve removed incentive instead. Players are always gonna look for a way to exploit the system, and the way to combat that is for the exploit to not be worth doing in the first place.
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    StatureStature Posts: 426 ★★★

    crogs said:

    I don't care. I don't play it enough to be on their radar. Thought the enlistment crystals would do it, but no. Sometimes in BG, I just don't care, play stupid aggressive and lose. Get my points and move on. If they want to ban me for trying to get the most rewards for the least amount of work, fine by me.

    Is it really that different than auto fighting easy road with 7*'s for hero use and class combat events? That sound like point farming. I'm out of energy but want to get some event points... Half heartedly go into BG and play stupidly. Same difference to me.

    Next they'll start scrutinizing AQ. We're mostly Paragon and thronebreakers playing map 2 & 3 because it's dirt easy, and we're done so quick we can enjoy not being in the game. Are they going to start forcing us to do harder AQ because our accounts are capable of doing higher maps?

    So whatever. They'll do what they do. Design something and then they aren't happy because people are getting rewards they don't think were fully earned in their eyes... Sounds like sour grapes to me. Screw'em. Design it better. Spell out rewards better. Kinda comical when they design something that gets unintended results, and their knee jerk reaction is to punish. Yawn.

    Why would they have a problem with paragons doing easier difficulties, they receive less rewards either way, and it's not like that affects anyone cause it not a "pvp" mode
    When they camp in lower tiers, they slow down progress for majority of the players within the tier. Under the current progression system, a 50% win rate and alternating win-loss scenario is essentially a no progress for everyone involved (as compared to those campers not being there at all). Campers are just socialising the costs of their milestone points across the system.

    They won't get lesser rewards, they will just farm wins for a couple of weeks and then push to GC in the last 10 days. It just ruins the game experience for people who are playing legitimately.
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    Stature said:

    crogs said:

    I don't care. I don't play it enough to be on their radar. Thought the enlistment crystals would do it, but no. Sometimes in BG, I just don't care, play stupid aggressive and lose. Get my points and move on. If they want to ban me for trying to get the most rewards for the least amount of work, fine by me.

    Is it really that different than auto fighting easy road with 7*'s for hero use and class combat events? That sound like point farming. I'm out of energy but want to get some event points... Half heartedly go into BG and play stupidly. Same difference to me.

    Next they'll start scrutinizing AQ. We're mostly Paragon and thronebreakers playing map 2 & 3 because it's dirt easy, and we're done so quick we can enjoy not being in the game. Are they going to start forcing us to do harder AQ because our accounts are capable of doing higher maps?

    So whatever. They'll do what they do. Design something and then they aren't happy because people are getting rewards they don't think were fully earned in their eyes... Sounds like sour grapes to me. Screw'em. Design it better. Spell out rewards better. Kinda comical when they design something that gets unintended results, and their knee jerk reaction is to punish. Yawn.

    Why would they have a problem with paragons doing easier difficulties, they receive less rewards either way, and it's not like that affects anyone cause it not a "pvp" mode
    When they camp in lower tiers, they slow down progress for majority of the players within the tier. Under the current progression system, a 50% win rate and alternating win-loss scenario is essentially a no progress for everyone involved (as compared to those campers not being there at all). Campers are just socialising the costs of their milestone points across the system.

    They won't get lesser rewards, they will just farm wins for a couple of weeks and then push to GC in the last 10 days. It just ruins the game experience for people who are playing legitimately.
    That's not what im talking about, the dude i replied to said they'd begin to scrutinize paragons doing something like Aq 2 when in reality that doesn't affect anyone
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    BlueTanuki13BlueTanuki13 Posts: 17
    Stature said:


    The extent of rationalising here is amazing:

    Strong accounts facing players of similar strength = the hellish gauntlet that is silver/gold (and death matches)

    Weak accounts facing players of similar strength = matchmaking is heavily skewed (and boosts lower accounts straight through to platinum)

    I stand by what I said. Please note that I never mentioned "similar strength" - I would not have used those words because I am convinced that is not what the lower tiers matchmaking system does. I do not have any internal details about the actual algorithm but I am reasonably certain that it just partitions by account strength, my best guess is that it uses simple bracketing of [0-15'000] vs. [15'001-999'999] (meaning if your rating is below 15k you can match any account below 15k and if you have a rating above 15k you can match anyone above 15k). 15k is just a random guess, I have no idea what the actual matchmaking uses (it could be prestige based, or hero rating based or some more complex combination of parameters).

    If the matchmaking in lower tiers only allowed "similar strength" matches (ambiguous term but let's say the meaning is that you match accounts within +/- 10% of your own rating) then we should see people of all levels in plat 2. But this is not what I see happening, if you can show me an account that reached plat 2 and is not even uncollected please let me know, I will gladly admit my mistake.

    What I see is plenty of people that I would describe as "the strongest in the weak bracket" complaining about the unfair matchmaking once the free-for-all kicks in. And this is what causes the shock - such players suddenly make the transition from being the strongest in their bracket to the weakest of the remaining.
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    altavistaaltavista Posts: 1,354 ★★★★
    Stature said:



    Strong accounts facing players of similar strength = the hellish gauntlet that is silver/gold (and death matches)

    Weak accounts facing players of similar strength = matchmaking is heavily skewed (and boosts lower accounts straight through to platinum)

    No one would suggest that a High School sports team is equivalent to Professional sports team, even though each is playing similar strength matches.

    The problem is that Kabam has designed this frankenstein contraption where, halfway through the High School/Professional season, they decide to join the schedule so High Schoolers are playing Professionals, and every is vying for the same Championship.

    Either everything should have been combined to begin with if they're competing for the same Championship, or everything should remain separate as they compete for HS Champion and Pro Champions.

    The core design is essentially why players keep having polar opposite opinions on BGs - it is just a weird mishmash design.
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    ChaosMax1012ChaosMax1012 Posts: 3,100 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    crogs said:

    I don't care. I don't play it enough to be on their radar. Thought the enlistment crystals would do it, but no. Sometimes in BG, I just don't care, play stupid aggressive and lose. Get my points and move on. If they want to ban me for trying to get the most rewards for the least amount of work, fine by me.

    Is it really that different than auto fighting easy road with 7*'s for hero use and class combat events? That sound like point farming. I'm out of energy but want to get some event points... Half heartedly go into BG and play stupidly. Same difference to me.

    Next they'll start scrutinizing AQ. We're mostly Paragon and thronebreakers playing map 2 & 3 because it's dirt easy, and we're done so quick we can enjoy not being in the game. Are they going to start forcing us to do harder AQ because our accounts are capable of doing higher maps?

    So whatever. They'll do what they do. Design something and then they aren't happy because people are getting rewards they don't think were fully earned in their eyes... Sounds like sour grapes to me. Screw'em. Design it better. Spell out rewards better. Kinda comical when they design something that gets unintended results, and their knee jerk reaction is to punish. Yawn.

    There's a fundamental difference between choosing to auto-fight lower difficulties, choosing to do lower tier AQ, and deliberately losing matches in BG. Using autofight in lower tiers is explicitly using the feature as intended. Choosing to do lower tier AQ is also using that option as intended. But more importantly, doing either does not affect any other player in the game. Deliberately losing in Battlegrounds is affecting other players by a) distorting the way the competition works, giving wins to competitors that shouldn't earn them and b) causing the players who lose to have the impression that the rating and promotion system is broken because it leaves very strong players facing much weaker ones for longer than intended.

    It may be comical when players do things that cause unintended results, but there's no way to design anything that can't be exploited in some manner or other. That's why we have rules. That's not a knee jerk reaction, that's the proper reaction for any game or activity. When the players of the game decide to do things that run counter to the intent of the game, first you warn them, and then if they choose to ignore that warning or think they are entitled to do whatever they want, then you enforce those rules in a manner that either convinces them to change their behavior or ejects them from the activity.

    If you didn't care, you wouldn't take the time to post or try as hard as you are trying to pretend none of this is worthy of attention. Nobody types "yawn" that actually is yawning.
    Kabam has a tendency of being very late on the warnings. You’re right in a logical sense, but for the average player such as what OP was saying, its very frustrating when kabam tries to take away and resort to punishments when players do prosper. Similar to revive farming, they punished players by creating a game mode that rarely drops its only purposeful reward. What OP is getting at is that players are being punished simply because the game is never working as intended, and it seems that players are expected to know that and read the hundreds of forum posts to keep up or be punished.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,394 ★★★★★
    Prospering is one thing. Manipulating the system to take advantage of other Players and prosper is another.
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    crogscrogs Posts: 765 ★★★

    crogs said:

    I don't care. I don't play it enough to be on their radar. Thought the enlistment crystals would do it, but no. Sometimes in BG, I just don't care, play stupid aggressive and lose. Get my points and move on. If they want to ban me for trying to get the most rewards for the least amount of work, fine by me.

    Is it really that different than auto fighting easy road with 7*'s for hero use and class combat events? That sound like point farming. I'm out of energy but want to get some event points... Half heartedly go into BG and play stupidly. Same difference to me.

    Next they'll start scrutinizing AQ. We're mostly Paragon and thronebreakers playing map 2 & 3 because it's dirt easy, and we're done so quick we can enjoy not being in the game. Are they going to start forcing us to do harder AQ because our accounts are capable of doing higher maps?

    So whatever. They'll do what they do. Design something and then they aren't happy because people are getting rewards they don't think were fully earned in their eyes... Sounds like sour grapes to me. Screw'em. Design it better. Spell out rewards better. Kinda comical when they design something that gets unintended results, and their knee jerk reaction is to punish. Yawn.

    Why would they have a problem with paragons doing easier difficulties, they receive less rewards either way, and it's not like that affects anyone cause it not a "pvp" mode
    Maybe I'm just not pushing to see how comparable I am to others. I've always been behind the curve and happy to stay there. So if I feel like I have a hard fight, I'm happy to tank it. But I'm also not going to make a push at any point in time, down the stretch or what not and throw things off further.

    I stand by the rest of what I said though. If they're going to make rewards available whether I win or lose, then I'm probably not going to care if I win and put in less effort. I just need to complete it, get my solo rewards and move on. Sorry, not sorry.

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    crogscrogs Posts: 765 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    crogs said:

    I don't care. I don't play it enough to be on their radar. Thought the enlistment crystals would do it, but no. Sometimes in BG, I just don't care, play stupid aggressive and lose. Get my points and move on. If they want to ban me for trying to get the most rewards for the least amount of work, fine by me.

    Is it really that different than auto fighting easy road with 7*'s for hero use and class combat events? That sound like point farming. I'm out of energy but want to get some event points... Half heartedly go into BG and play stupidly. Same difference to me.

    Next they'll start scrutinizing AQ. We're mostly Paragon and thronebreakers playing map 2 & 3 because it's dirt easy, and we're done so quick we can enjoy not being in the game. Are they going to start forcing us to do harder AQ because our accounts are capable of doing higher maps?

    So whatever. They'll do what they do. Design something and then they aren't happy because people are getting rewards they don't think were fully earned in their eyes... Sounds like sour grapes to me. Screw'em. Design it better. Spell out rewards better. Kinda comical when they design something that gets unintended results, and their knee jerk reaction is to punish. Yawn.

    There's a fundamental difference between choosing to auto-fight lower difficulties, choosing to do lower tier AQ, and deliberately losing matches in BG. Using autofight in lower tiers is explicitly using the feature as intended. Choosing to do lower tier AQ is also using that option as intended. But more importantly, doing either does not affect any other player in the game. Deliberately losing in Battlegrounds is affecting other players by a) distorting the way the competition works, giving wins to competitors that shouldn't earn them and b) causing the players who lose to have the impression that the rating and promotion system is broken because it leaves very strong players facing much weaker ones for longer than intended.

    It may be comical when players do things that cause unintended results, but there's no way to design anything that can't be exploited in some manner or other. That's why we have rules. That's not a knee jerk reaction, that's the proper reaction for any game or activity. When the players of the game decide to do things that run counter to the intent of the game, first you warn them, and then if they choose to ignore that warning or think they are entitled to do whatever they want, then you enforce those rules in a manner that either convinces them to change their behavior or ejects them from the activity.

    If you didn't care, you wouldn't take the time to post or try as hard as you are trying to pretend none of this is worthy of attention. Nobody types "yawn" that actually is yawning.
    You don't know how tired I am. I yawn a lot. And just like the enlistment crystal thing. I had baby accounts. I put time into them, maybe not now, but once upon a time. Maybe even spent a few dollars on them. So why shouldn't I be allowed to hop in them and gift myself? Or a buddy who no longer plays, and I ask him to just log in and gift me the crystals. Gift him just enough to hit the milestones for more crystals. It's as fair as bugs that cost me resources and time I can't get back. I forget the last one I did a ticket on. But I got told that it was affecting others and blah blah, we'll decide if compensation is due, blah blah. Never heard a thing.

    So I don't really care if something I do that earns me rewards affects others. I'm not throwing 2*'s in my pool of Champs. But if I'm not in the mood to really put in an effort and have a milestone to hit, I'm doing a match and probably losing so it goes quicker.

    And I only bother to post during the rare times I pop on to look something up. Usually leads to me perusing the first couple pages of posts to see if there's anything interesting. And these 1st world game problems are usually interesting.
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    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★
    I wonder how kabam will get to know losing matches deliberately or just doing this by mistake. Do kabam have any mind reading tech? And if someone really want to lose how kabam would stop them.

    I think it is just statement to console the low tier player. Recently I got to know this kind of techniques is there to farm the bg points. I never thought about.

    And I don't see any problem if someone deliberately losing matches to farm the points. It their own choice for their banefit.

    For eg, there were so much of fights in end game where opponent is regening crazy. So people tried this approach to do the damge and quit the figth. This is also not a sportsmanship play.

    See if some high tier account is wining over the low tier account then at same time also they are losing against the low tier account. Giving free wins then low tier don't have any problem becoz they are wining. But if someone is wining then low tier account have problem.

    I know using this technique so much is not good. But sometime everyone finds a easy way to do it. Becoz not everyone has whole day to play BG. And 300k points is not that easy to achieve. You have to win 50+ bg matchups. So some people used this technique.

    In other hand some low tier player has faced issues with it. I can understand that. But calling this is bannable offense is not good. It is my account I lose I win it is totally up to me.
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    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★
    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
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    HarryatomixHarryatomix Posts: 119

    It’s official, point farming in battlegrounds is now considered a bannable offense. For those who don’t know I’m getting this info from Kabam’s most recent post regarding battleground season 12 details. (I’d link the post here but I have no clue how to, however you can find it in the “News & Announcements” thread.) What is the community’s response? Hopefully it should make battlegrounds a more normal place in terms of competition for progressing accounts, but I’m wondering what the rest of the community thinks.

    They should make gc matches give more points than vt, I think this solves the issue.
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    Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,529 ★★★★★
    edited October 2023

    It’s official, point farming in battlegrounds is now considered a bannable offense. For those who don’t know I’m getting this info from Kabam’s most recent post regarding battleground season 12 details. (I’d link the post here but I have no clue how to, however you can find it in the “News & Announcements” thread.) What is the community’s response? Hopefully it should make battlegrounds a more normal place in terms of competition for progressing accounts, but I’m wondering what the rest of the community thinks.

    They should make gc matches give more points than vt, I think this solves the issue.
    That would work theoretically, my only concern is how it would inflate point cutoffs in an already competitive ranked mode.

    As someone above me also said, I think they should just do away with elders marks. They serve no purpose in the game other than to reward those who spend units on them with an advantage in points.

    Still, either solution would be better than what we have now. I don’t agree with making this bannable but maybe it wil make things better as a result.
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    MorghaxorMorghaxor Posts: 37

    It’s official, point farming in battlegrounds is now considered a bannable offense. For those who don’t know I’m getting this info from Kabam’s most recent post regarding battleground season 12 details. (I’d link the post here but I have no clue how to, however you can find it in the “News & Announcements” thread.) What is the community’s response? Hopefully it should make battlegrounds a more normal place in terms of competition for progressing accounts, but I’m wondering what the rest of the community thinks.

    They should make gc matches give more points than vt, I think this solves the issue.
    Definitely this ^. I lose way more matches once I get to GC then I do on the way - if the wins in GC gave more points, there would be no point in stalling on the way in Platinum/Diamond/Vibranium and frankly - it would just be more fair.

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    Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,529 ★★★★★
    edited October 2023

    @crogs the main difference is that in battlegrounds, farming is against actual players. High tier accounts were sitting in vt creating a wall that progressing players couldn’t get around.

    Disagree. This isn't "farming," it's trying to keep yourself from being pushed into a higher tier of BGs where you have to fight whale accounts that are impossible to beat, before you have even earned all of the point rewards in the solo event. It's exactly the opposite of what you said. This is trying to make sure you don't get pushed into a tier above your skill level. The goal is to PREVENT you from becoming the victim of an impenetrable wall of whale accounts.

    That's what happens. I lived through it, and was unable to earn all the points in the solo event because of it. The only way I could've earned them was to make sure I didn't get pushed into a higher tier. But I didn't know that until it was too late and I was in the Diamond tier and unable to win fights anymore.

    What you're claiming happened simply did not happen. I had no trouble winning fights in the lower tiers. No one was blocking me from progressing. I wish they had blocked me from progressing, so I wouldn't have been sent into the nightmare tier full of unbeatable whales, who prevented me from earning all of the solo event rewards.
    I fully understand where you’re coming from because I am in the same boat as you. I used to sit in the lower tiers of vt just so I would still be under the matchmaking for fair fights, not to stomp on lower players. I’m a low tier paragon and once I reach around diamond, my chances of winning drop significantly.

    Also I don’t know if maybe I misspoke, but I did not claim that players were struggling in the low tiers of vt, but rather in the plat-diamond levels. My hope is that the removal of point farming will force the higher tier players up into gc and make diamond less competitive.

    And yes, maybe what you and I were doing wasn’t farming, as we were just hoping for fair matchups, but that’s not the situation I was referring to. Like I said, it’s the players farming in parts of vt that are not shielded by matchmaking who are causing the issue. I want this to break that “impenetrable wall of whales,” so that we don’t have to slog for points in diamond.

    I don’t have any data, so I don’t know how much this will help, but it at least feels like a step in the right direction.
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    ZADO1991ZADO1991 Posts: 109

    I think there’s a couple of interesting points to note.

    1) if bg is supposed to be competitive, what do they want users to do? Do they want to encourage competitive play? Or force it?

    2) if aw is supposed to be competitive, what do they want users to do? Do they want to encourage competitive play? Or force it?

    —- Force competitive play —-

    As far as I can see, they are forcing competitive play in bgs, by limiting the choice of players who don’t want a rough time . In other words, the players that have decided that for bgs, they don’t want the rewards from gc or placement , but simply from the solo rewards.

    In a similar fashion, they have not done this with war, which I presume is also a competitive part of the game. If they wanted to force players to play war properly, they’d insist everyone boost to the max, heal to full, and use their best heroes. But this is not the case.

    People have said that those who are camping these tiers are hurting other players or abusing the system? This simply isn’t the case. They are simply choosing how to play that part of the game. Low lvl accounts with people who are pushing hard will continue to remain stuck in p2, p1, diamond as they should be, mixed in with casual paragon players who don’t care enough to push gc. This is pretty much a direct comparison to alliance war and this exact discussion could be applied to alliance war, where alliance are in retirement and play just for easy rewards. Are they also abusing the system by choosing a more relaxed approach to alliance war?

    I think people are failing to acknowledge that not all paragon players want to push hard, not all low lvl accounts are taking it easy. The mixed area is where we see the varying amounts of hardcore casual players mix based on those 2 factors - account size and activity . The start point is plat 2 of course because that’s where the mix is first allowed, but this can be observed across plat 1 and diamond levels too.

    Paragon hardcore - glad circuit
    Paragon casual + tb hardcore - diamond and plat
    Tb casual and below - gold silver etc or p2

    Personally. I have no issues at all with points farming. I’m tb, I push , and I’m happily sat in diamond along with other tb, and casual paragon players. As I see it, these casual paragon players don’t really have a negative effect at all - they are simply part of the system, and i see it as their decision to chill here. If they want to chill with me in diamond that’s fine, sometimes they’ll quit and I get some free points, sometimes they’ll play and win. So really it kind of balances out anyways. Does it have any impact on me? Not really. The only difference I can see with this change is that i would be getting stuck maybe 1 or 2 tiers higher , just closer to gc. So essentially. No.

    The border will happen regardless, and wherever it is, there will sit casual paragon, and tb hardcore. They will still match up with tb hardcore in whatever tier they make and still get some easy wins, and then they match up with other causal paragons and maybe win or lose. So the border will sit slightly higher maybe? That’s all.

    —- Elders win - energy lose? Unfair, or simply smart play? —

    However, saying all this, my second point is the only real difference I can see that kabam don’t like - the use of energy to lose and elders to win. Now, here I can see why kabam doesn’t like it. But again, I just don’t see it as a problem. Paragon casuals are simply deciding to maximise solo rewards and have worked out the most efficient way to use their resources. If paragon casuals are now forced to not forfeit, they’ll simply just play with elders, run out of elders, they’ll just use energy and do the same but slower. They’ll still get matched up with easy fights sometimes as they will still be in the same bracket with hardcore tb. The only thing it will do is take casual paragon players longer to get the same score.


    — real world comparison? —-

    Now my final point is to compare it to real world scenarios.

    The scenarios I can think that fits well is this:

    A pro football team playing in a competition. They are in a league and are already qualified for the next section of the competition (ie they are exactly where they want to be).

    As a result, in the next few matches, they decide to play their youth team, to rest their main team players. They know who they are playing next. The youth players aren’t great, so they lose. But the governing body do not intervene because it’s up to the manager how he wants the team to progress etc. and it’s his choice to conserve the main teams energy (resources) for the finals.

    Runners in qualifying races may not come 1st. They’ll conserve energy (resources) and do enough to qualify, then they’ll turn it up for the final. Would Officials complain that they only came 4th and lost to someone who wasn’t as good as them? Would they insist that runner perform to their max for every race? Playing an event to suit yourself based on the rules of the event isn’t cheating. It’s playing smart. Just because a race has a 1st ,2nd 3rd, doesn’t necessarily mean the fast person always wants to come 1st or needs to. Depends on the race event etc.





    —. Final thoughts —-

    The main player resource in mcoc is time. And all that players have done is work out the best way to maximise time vs rewards. For those with limited time, this is an important strategy.

    —- a simple way to truly encourage winning play? —-

    If kabam really wanted to encourage winning play, they should simply switch rewards off solo progress, onto gc progress and vt. its really that simple. Ditch the point system. Ditch the difference for elders and energy. As a tb, this works for me, as I’m already pushing as far as I can go, I’ll still meet up with casual paragons and get stuck. Casual paragons won’t feel the need to farm points, but will also still be stuck in the same bracket as me, losing to other paragons, winning to tb (no real change apart from no need to points farm).

    Finally, for those people who are using the “this is so unfair to tb and smaller accounts because paragons are farming on them” argument, perhaps let the tb and smaller account have their say first before jumping to their rescue. You may be arguing a point that isn’t there. In my opinion as a tb, you are misinformed. As a tb, I really don’t mind casual paragons in my bracket choosing to win or lose. They will always be in my bracket, whatever happens, unless kabam change the matchup algorithm. So as a tb, I see no issues with paragons using their time as best they can. But I am just one tb among many, let’s see what others have to say.





    Couldn't agree with you more. Kabam could've integrated all the rewards into the tier achievement rewards if they really wanted to encourage competitive play
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 4,440 ★★★★★
    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
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    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    I don't farm points like this. I always want to go in GC to gain more trophy tokens. Anyways what about now still small account is facing high tier account becoz high teir seeded to platinum1. You can see so many threads is going on stating that they are facing the account loaded with 7*R2 and 6*R5. This pain never ends for smaller account untill they improve their skill and focus on their own progress and become high tier account instead of crying on the forum.

    And I also don't support the statement that kabam stating that it is bannable offence. there are so many people here who are not here competitive play they are just here to chill and farm some points and get the reward with easy way.

    Once low tier account becomes high tier account and they don't have time to this competitive play then they will also think it through and probably prefer the easy and chill way to farm the points.

    Also like AW there so many strong alliances they want to just chill so they keep them in low tier and earn the g1-g3 reward. Then why that is not an offensive play. AW is also competitive.

    This just a game everyone has their own choices to make how they want to play that's it. Becoz here nobody is doing any hacking or any kind of unfair matchmaking. Becoz matchmaking is done by kabam They are just keep themselves in low tier to face easy opponent and make their bg points. I don't see how this in unfair.
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    StatureStature Posts: 426 ★★★

    @crogs the main difference is that in battlegrounds, farming is against actual players. High tier accounts were sitting in vt creating a wall that progressing players couldn’t get around.

    Disagree. This isn't "farming," it's trying to keep yourself from being pushed into a higher tier of BGs where you have to fight whale accounts that are impossible to beat, before you have even earned all of the point rewards in the solo event. It's exactly the opposite of what you said. This is trying to make sure you don't get pushed into a tier above your skill level. The goal is to PREVENT you from becoming the victim of an impenetrable wall of whale accounts.

    That's what happens. I lived through it, and was unable to earn all the points in the solo event because of it. The only way I could've earned them was to make sure I didn't get pushed into a higher tier. But I didn't know that until it was too late and I was in the Diamond tier and unable to win fights anymore.

    What you're claiming happened simply did not happen. I had no trouble winning fights in the lower tiers. No one was blocking me from progressing. I wish they had blocked me from progressing, so I wouldn't have been sent into the nightmare tier full of unbeatable whales, who prevented me from earning all of the solo event rewards.
    Instead you become the equivalent of the whales in a lower tier and the lower accounts you are farming against become the victim of the so called impenetrable wall. All you are doing is passing on your losses to someone else who is playing fair.

    At an individual level it is obviously the optimal move, in seasons where solo rewards dominate. But let's call it as it is.
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    XFREEDOMXXFREEDOMX Posts: 522 ★★★

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    LMAO! "they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check" This cracked me up. hahahah
  • Options
    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★
    XFREEDOMX said:

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    LMAO! "they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check" This cracked me up. hahahah
    Haha means kabam will check every account or every fight of bg. How kabam do manual check!! 😂
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 4,440 ★★★★★
    XFREEDOMX said:

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    LMAO! "they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check" This cracked me up. hahahah
    Yes, just like they manually checked who was matching themselves with their alts to get points in GC and then banned them a few months ago, I don't know what you're even trying to argue here when they have in fact manually banned people before for doing stuff that's against the rules. That's fine though, if you guys think they can't do it I 100% encourage you to farm lol just don't cry about it on the forums when season ends and you do get banned.
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 4,440 ★★★★★
    Avnish said:

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    I don't farm points like this. I always want to go in GC to gain more trophy tokens. Anyways what about now still small account is facing high tier account becoz high teir seeded to platinum1. You can see so many threads is going on stating that they are facing the account loaded with 7*R2 and 6*R5. This pain never ends for smaller account untill they improve their skill and focus on their own progress and become high tier account instead of crying on the forum.

    And I also don't support the statement that kabam stating that it is bannable offence. there are so many people here who are not here competitive play they are just here to chill and farm some points and get the reward with easy way.

    Once low tier account becomes high tier account and they don't have time to this competitive play then they will also think it through and probably prefer the easy and chill way to farm the points.

    Also like AW there so many strong alliances they want to just chill so they keep them in low tier and earn the g1-g3 reward. Then why that is not an offensive play. AW is also competitive.

    This just a game everyone has their own choices to make how they want to play that's it. Becoz here nobody is doing any hacking or any kind of unfair matchmaking. Becoz matchmaking is done by kabam They are just keep themselves in low tier to face easy opponent and make their bg points. I don't see how this in unfair.
    If those big accounts stomping the small accounts aren't farming and are genuinely stuck in Plat 1 because they suck then yeah that's fair, let them stomp smaller accounts because if they don't the smaller accounts will get to GC quicker which would be a problem. Yes, small accounts don't belong in GC if that's what you're trying to say, I agree.

    You can disagree all you want, unfortunately for you this is a competitive game mode, as stated by Kabam, so no if you're just here to chill and farm points you're in the wrong place.

    As someone who went from small account to big, no I still don't give a damn about farming lol I want to play real matches against real people who are just as competitive as me because that's what BGs is all about.

    Because in AW, if you lose too many matches you will actually drop ranks and eventually leagues, BGs doesn't punish you like that which means you can lose all you want and comfortably stay on that league bullying small accounts indefinitely because you're afraid of fighting people just as strong or stronger than you, and that my friend is why you don't rely on Unitman.

    If you don't see how ruining BGs for smaller accounts while you get free points and have complete control over 90% of the fights is unfair then you need to go back to preschool or something so they can teach to not be selfish, you're not the only one playing this game buddy.
  • Options
    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★

    XFREEDOMX said:

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    LMAO! "they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check" This cracked me up. hahahah
    Yes, just like they manually checked who was matching themselves with their alts to get points in GC and then banned them a few months ago, I don't know what you're even trying to argue here when they have in fact manually banned people before for doing stuff that's against the rules. That's fine though, if you guys think they can't do it I 100% encourage you to farm lol just don't cry about it on the forums when season ends and you do get banned.
    Bro technically manual check is not possible. There is code is written which is running behind the scene. So if kabam need catch those guy who is farming points by losing unfair matches. Then they have to implement some system which wil catch this if they don't have any. There thousand of accounts. Do you realise if kabam is going to check manually then how much time they have to spend. It is unimaginable.
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    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★

    Avnish said:

    Avnish said:

    2StarKing said:

    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.

    Bro how any algo will calculate if I do not choose the right counter for the opponent. If anyone want to lose then nobody can stop him/her.
    What are you even talking about lol they don't need any algorithm when they can just manually check, just like they did when people were matching with their alts to get points in GC and then got banned. I do however encourage you to farm though, they're all just empty threats according to you so you have nothing to worry about! 💀
    I don't farm points like this. I always want to go in GC to gain more trophy tokens. Anyways what about now still small account is facing high tier account becoz high teir seeded to platinum1. You can see so many threads is going on stating that they are facing the account loaded with 7*R2 and 6*R5. This pain never ends for smaller account untill they improve their skill and focus on their own progress and become high tier account instead of crying on the forum.

    And I also don't support the statement that kabam stating that it is bannable offence. there are so many people here who are not here competitive play they are just here to chill and farm some points and get the reward with easy way.

    Once low tier account becomes high tier account and they don't have time to this competitive play then they will also think it through and probably prefer the easy and chill way to farm the points.

    Also like AW there so many strong alliances they want to just chill so they keep them in low tier and earn the g1-g3 reward. Then why that is not an offensive play. AW is also competitive.

    This just a game everyone has their own choices to make how they want to play that's it. Becoz here nobody is doing any hacking or any kind of unfair matchmaking. Becoz matchmaking is done by kabam They are just keep themselves in low tier to face easy opponent and make their bg points. I don't see how this in unfair.
    If those big accounts stomping the small accounts aren't farming and are genuinely stuck in Plat 1 because they suck then yeah that's fair, let them stomp smaller accounts because if they don't the smaller accounts will get to GC quicker which would be a problem. Yes, small accounts don't belong in GC if that's what you're trying to say, I agree.

    You can disagree all you want, unfortunately for you this is a competitive game mode, as stated by Kabam, so no if you're just here to chill and farm points you're in the wrong place.

    As someone who went from small account to big, no I still don't give a damn about farming lol I want to play real matches against real people who are just as competitive as me because that's what BGs is all about.

    Because in AW, if you lose too many matches you will actually drop ranks and eventually leagues, BGs doesn't punish you like that which means you can lose all you want and comfortably stay on that league bullying small accounts indefinitely because you're afraid of fighting people just as strong or stronger than you, and that my friend is why you don't rely on Unitman.

    If you don't see how ruining BGs for smaller accounts while you get free points and have complete control over 90% of the fights is unfair then you need to go back to preschool or something so they can teach to not be selfish, you're not the only one playing this game buddy.
    Bro BG is competitive game mode for me because I always want to end is GC. But i can't pressurize other to play same way as I do. Becoz if they want stay in Plat1 then other hand they losing so much precious reward like so many trophy tokens. It is just a simple choice they want more trophy tokens(by which they can purchase most valuable item from store) or they want just some 6* shrads and some Sig stones which is easily available in store at cheaper price.

    TBH i don't get it if some high teir account stays in platinum 1 full season then they are losing so much of reward which in the form of trophy token.

    Btw I don't care I have developed skill i thrashed so many high tier account when I was TB or cavelier. With in 3-4 months i got 6 best champion to 6* R5 and 2 7* R2 and many 6* R4 by winning the matches in BG and joining a good alliance where we complete all milestone and get all reward from BG events. That's how I survived in this game.

    I also faced high tier account and lost the matches but i never posted here that I am getting more stronger acount then me. I just kept trying improve my roaster and my skills. So I can handle those high tier account. In other hand I also get some fair match up where I can easily win.

    Bcoz if you really want play this game then you can't really depend on the kabam only. Now days you can see some modders is roaming around the BG also they are capable to end fight in 1 sec with only 1 hit😂😂.

    But as per kabam they already taken care of it couple of months ago. But modders are still in the game and ruining the BG game mode. So my friend pls leave this fair and unfair talk and start focus on your game play and your growth.

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    AvnishAvnish Posts: 399 ★★★
    Please look some of my alliance posted this on line chat.
    Corvus only 13 hits against 7* bishop



    One hit fight




    Now what do you say on this.

  • Options
    ZuroZuro Posts: 2,826 ★★★★★
    Avnish said:

    Please look some of my alliance posted this on line chat.
    Corvus only 13 hits against 7* bishop



    One hit fight




    Now what do you say on this.

    He's obviously just a hacker what point are you even trying to make
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