Options

The Death of Point Farming

Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,173 ★★★★
edited October 2023 in General Discussion
It’s official, point farming in battlegrounds is now considered a bannable offense. For those who don’t know I’m getting this info from Kabam’s most recent post regarding battleground season 12 details. (I’d link the post here but I have no clue how to, however you can find it in the “News & Announcements” thread.) What is the community’s response? Hopefully it should make battlegrounds a more normal place in terms of competition for progressing accounts, but I’m wondering what the rest of the community thinks.
«13

Comments

  • Options
    Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,173 ★★★★

    Here is a screenshot of the post since I can’t figure out how to link it instead.
  • Options
    Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,173 ★★★★

    Good.

    It personally hurts my account more than helps, but definitely a healthy change overall.
  • Options
    Nemesis_17Nemesis_17 Posts: 1,173 ★★★★
    edited October 2023
    @crogs the main difference is that in battlegrounds, farming is against actual players. High tier accounts were sitting in vt creating a wall that progressing players couldn’t get around.

    Edit: sorry this post is a little late, my original posts kept getting rejected for some reason.
  • Options
    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 2,913 ★★★★★
    Will I be safe if I use mostly 5* champs and downbad 6* champs? Paired with playing very roughly, putting easy defenders, will kabam "anti-cheat" see it as cheating or will take me as noob? This might be the only strategy to fly under their scanners.
  • Options
    ZolobacsiZolobacsi Posts: 106 ★★
    PT_99 said:

    Will I be safe if I use mostly 5* champs and downbad 6* champs? Paired with playing very roughly, putting easy defenders, will kabam "anti-cheat" see it as cheating or will take me as noob? This might be the only strategy to fly under their scanners.

    If you farm the pattern is very simple. Win on elder marks, loss on energy and/or forfeit regularly. To be fair it should be fairly easy to detect. It doesn't matter what champs you are using. I can think of a few ways around it but for peace I won't try to accidentally give tips and I saved up enough EM to get the milestones even if I loose 90% of my matches, for me it doesn't matter if I do that on VT or in GC 😄
  • Options
    PriyabrataPriyabrata Posts: 1,028 ★★★★
    edited October 2023
    flapjax said:

    @crogs the main difference is that in battlegrounds, farming is against actual players. High tier accounts were sitting in vt creating a wall that progressing players couldn’t get around.

    Edit: sorry this post is a little late, my original posts kept getting rejected for some reason.

    I'm genuinely curious how much of this is a real issue with point farmers and not just BGs being BGs.

    Not every Paragon player rushes to the GC, most seasons I just do 3 games every 2 days and slowly make my way there by the end of the season or do a last minute push.

    Most of the complaints about unfair match making talk about Plat 2, which is where the training wheels come off for smaller accounts. While they very well be running into some point farmers, there's also a chance they're just running into regular players.

    If they really want to tackle point farming, the correct path would be to remove the incentive to do so, rather than trying to punish people for trying to make the most of the poorly designed system they put in place.
    I have a question for you, does slowing down the pace like you do, actually make it easier to go up the ranks or just pushing thru at once?
  • Options
    flapjaxflapjax Posts: 285 ★★★

    flapjax said:

    @crogs the main difference is that in battlegrounds, farming is against actual players. High tier accounts were sitting in vt creating a wall that progressing players couldn’t get around.

    Edit: sorry this post is a little late, my original posts kept getting rejected for some reason.

    I'm genuinely curious how much of this is a real issue with point farmers and not just BGs being BGs.

    Not every Paragon player rushes to the GC, most seasons I just do 3 games every 2 days and slowly make my way there by the end of the season or do a last minute push.

    Most of the complaints about unfair match making talk about Plat 2, which is where the training wheels come off for smaller accounts. While they very well be running into some point farmers, there's also a chance they're just running into regular players.

    If they really want to tackle point farming, the correct path would be to remove the incentive to do so, rather than trying to punish people for trying to make the most of the poorly designed system they put in place.
    I have a question for you, does slowing down the pace like you do, actually make it easier to go up the ranks or just pushing thru at once?
    It's hard to say because I've never really pushed early. It does often feel easier later in the season because I do feel like the competition gets easier since the bigger accounts have moved on and the smaller/medium ones have made it up to Diamond/Vibranium.

    I mainly do it slowly because I don't like BGs. I don't push in the GC so it doesn't really matter when I hit it, and it's easier to finish the daily objectives in the VT since the win rate is higher (for me at least).
  • Options
    DaddriedaDaddrieda Posts: 1,583 ★★★★
    Ah well! There went my method to clear the battleground objectives. I often win a fight and then lose two fights to get two of those objectives for the store purchase. Guess it’s goodbye to the battleground ☺️
  • Options
    Chuck_FinleyChuck_Finley Posts: 889 ★★★★★
    Great move by Kabam. Very happy they addressed and clarified their stance on this practice.
  • Options
    WinterFieldsWinterFields Posts: 702 ★★★★

    Hmm… I have a question: Did point farming really ever hurt anyone? I encountered accounts that just forfeited, too… But I’ll be happy and take the effortless win…

    I mean, they still have to lose about every other match, don’t they? So some easy wins for the opponents…

    It hurts some and helps others. The VT tiers should be structured in a way that means stronger challengers keep going up over time, which levels off a general difficulty of each tier. Of course, that changes throughout the season as stronger accounts progress through but other stronger accounts that had a late start come in (plus the whole matchmaking for smaller accounts until Plat II).

    Point farming messes with that system. You deliberately lose to big accounts (or small accounts only to stop you from progressing) and win against smaller accounts that should be no problem for a bigger roster. Some accounts aren't meant to progress as far in VT but get pushed into a tier they can't compete in, while others face competition stronger than intended for them at the lower level.

    So it helps some, hurts others, and violates the intended structure of BG
  • Options
    G-Hun-GearG-Hun-Gear Posts: 1,447 ★★★★
    @WinterFields Thanks, that makes sense…

    One question though: I see Plat II being mentioned a lot in these discussions… What’s so special about Plat II (why not Plat I or Plat III)?
  • Options
    WinterFieldsWinterFields Posts: 702 ★★★★

    @WinterFields Thanks, that makes sense…

    One question though: I see Plat II being mentioned a lot in these discussions… What’s so special about Plat II (why not Plat I or Plat III)?

    In an open competition, any account should be eligible to face any other account. However, smaller accounts would get crushed by bigger accounts more often than Kabam wanted, so matchmaking is different for lower tiers. Before Plat II, players face accounts that are very similar to their own account size. Once getting to Plat II, matchmaking becomes more open, allowing for wider differences in opponent strength.

    The impact of this means that smaller accounts have an artificially easier time until Plat II while stronger accounts have a harder time until then
  • Options
    G-Hun-GearG-Hun-Gear Posts: 1,447 ★★★★
    Thanks, didn’t know that…
  • Options
    Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 7,216 ★★★★★
    Easy way to view this: is the purpose of BG to quit and lose, or to play and win?

    Just play until you reach your ceiling, then wait for the next cycle.
  • Options
    StatureStature Posts: 426 ★★★

    DNA3000 said:


    There's a fundamental difference between choosing to auto-fight lower difficulties, choosing to do lower tier AQ, and deliberately losing matches in BG. Using autofight in lower tiers is explicitly using the feature as intended. Choosing to do lower tier AQ is also using that option as intended. But more importantly, doing either does not affect any other player in the game. Deliberately losing in Battlegrounds is affecting other players by a) distorting the way the competition works, giving wins to competitors that shouldn't earn them and b) causing the players who lose to have the impression that the rating and promotion system is broken because it leaves very strong players facing much weaker ones for longer than intended.

    That is all good, however you conveniently left out the core of the problem, which is why stronger players feel motivated to do this.

    In the lower tiers the matchmaking is heavily skewed to favor weak accounts. This forces high level accounts into deathmatches in silver/gold and boosts lower accounts straight through to platinum. Then when the matchmaking becomes free-for-all and you can actually face all the accounts in your current bracket things dramatically change :
    - strong accounts suddenly face much easier matches (which after the hellish gauntlet that is silver/gold feels like a breath of fresh air)
    - weak accounts suddenly see all other accounts in their bracket and have a much lower chance of encountering someone they can win against.

    If there was no artificial strength-based matchmaking in the lower tiers then this would not really happen. If you want to have different leagues of BG where players up to a certain hero rating compete against each other then by all means introduce them. But if 2 players are in the same bracket and they compete for the same rewards then they should be able to face each other. What you have now makes no sense and I believe these "point farming techniques" are simply a result of that.

    Punishing players without addressing the root cause is not productive and will just drive people away. Just let matchmaking be fair in all tiers and the problem will sort itself out.
    The extent of rationalising here is amazing:

    Strong accounts facing players of similar strength = the hellish gauntlet that is silver/gold (and death matches)

    Weak accounts facing players of similar strength = matchmaking is heavily skewed (and boosts lower accounts straight through to platinum)

    In normal seasons, BG is a "competition" and only "best of the best" are meant to progress - smaller accounts should focus on progression elsewhere and let the big boys play. But as soon as the reward structure shifts people come out defending the right to game the system and farm wins against the same accounts they don't even want in BG.
  • Options
    WinterFieldsWinterFields Posts: 702 ★★★★

    I've always felt that the better the opponent, the more rewards you should get if you win. As it is now, beating a 19k account awards the same points as beating a 10k account, which is why many point-farm. If beating that 19k players awarded you 2 or 3 times as many points as the 10k account, there would be no incentive to point-farm.

    In a similar manner, I think GC should award more points than VT. In theory the stronger opponents should be in GC; if they can get there with a smaller roster that hopefully means they have more skill than the average person, so they should at least not be a pushover
  • Options
    AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    Very very good. It was a bad practice that needed to go
  • Options
    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,922 ★★★★★

    I've always felt that the better the opponent, the more rewards you should get if you win. As it is now, beating a 19k account awards the same points as beating a 10k account, which is why many point-farm. If beating that 19k players awarded you 2 or 3 times as many points as the 10k account, there would be no incentive to point-farm.

    In a similar manner, I think GC should award more points than VT. In theory the stronger opponents should be in GC; if they can get there with a smaller roster that hopefully means they have more skill than the average person, so they should at least not be a pushover
    That's probably an easier change. Just double the points you earn in the GC and it would make point farming in low tiers to the VT unnecessary. It's not that hard.
  • Options
    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,922 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    I've always felt that the better the opponent, the more rewards you should get if you win. As it is now, beating a 19k account awards the same points as beating a 10k account, which is why many point-farm. If beating that 19k players awarded you 2 or 3 times as many points as the 10k account, there would be no incentive to point-farm.

    Why not just give the 19K accounts all the rewards up front and place them in Celestial. They are obviously the best, it's very tedious that they have to play the game as well.
    Booooooooo.
  • Options
    2StarKing2StarKing Posts: 855 ★★★
    A player like me is terrible all the time. I guarantee my play has and will continue to surprise the algorithm. Point framing still works for a crappy player like me.
Sign In or Register to comment.