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Let's Chat About Defender AI - Current state, behind the scenes, upcoming changes

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    Manup456Manup456 Posts: 887 ★★★★
    @0_Alph4 Not anytime soon because the update notes are out and not 1 single thing has been done to the AI which is incredible.
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    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 3,075 ★★★★★
    edited December 2023
    Gawd damn, this new AI in event quest is such a wimp, holding blocks and refusing to dash in but the moment my hero's beneficial window is closed it goes berserk 😄 only to hold block again for eternity.

    what's happening man, why can't you guys find a middle ground? It's either too wonky or too passive.
    Either uses a sp3 the nanosecond it hits redbar or takes 2 holidays to use that damn special.
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    UsagicassidyUsagicassidy Posts: 1,113 ★★★★
    Leave it to Kabam to release what they call a "lateral" move and then have the AI acting in even worse ways than before.

    I'm playing normal just like I was previously and am taking TONS more damage than before. For the same type of content, my champs are getting hammered.

    I even had to use Revives on Cavalier which feels completely wasteful.
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    J4mmy_d0dger123J4mmy_d0dger123 Posts: 294 ★★
    XSquad said:

    I’m sorry but I am calling BS in the randomness of it. You have champs like Chavez and Mysterio spamming heavies from across the screen and it just so happens to be a major part of their kits. Nick fury will throw sp1 into blocks but it takes forever to get him to throw his sp2. These are intended and not random.

    Can second this, some AI behaviour is specifically oriented around kit utilisation, which in itself isn’t terrible, but things like throwing a special into a block, special intercepting when it detects a dash forward and other such behaviours, challenging and ‘I have to put the phone down for the rest of the day’ are two different types of difficulty
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    NuclearBlastNuclearBlast Posts: 2 ★
    Don’t think there’s any fairness to keep that sp2 for like minute … what’s obviously causes unfavourable outcome especially when it comes down to BGs
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    UsagicassidyUsagicassidy Posts: 1,113 ★★★★
    edited December 2023
    Shadow_Shooter said:

    I could swear the AI got even worse. I’m shocked by the speed of AI, keeps intercepting with specials, impossible to punish with heavies or you’ll get specials in the face… Kabam? What are you doing? Any updates?

    At this rate, for this month's upcoming EQ, I'm going to have to use only parry champions. And work really slowly.* Because my intercept champions and methods are resulting in me taking a WHOLE lotta damage from the defenders. And I don't have a wide range of options I can bring into the Thronebreaker EQ as it is.

    *And by work really slowly I really mean make sure I drink three cups of coffee before playing so that my baseline is the same as the AI.
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    Avenger_A1Avenger_A1 Posts: 289 ★
    After almost five minutes of buffering in AQ while loading a fight (no red wifi icon), I force closed the app and lost 50% of my attacker's health. And to top it off, when I started the fight, the defender ignored my block and almost KO'd me with a full combo. Let's pretend to chat about that.
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    Avenger_A1Avenger_A1 Posts: 289 ★
    BitterSteel said:

    Blackjack555yy said:

    BitterSteel said:

    @416BlitzLightning @Yukzii_II @XSquad @Manup456


    I’ll tag you guys since those are the comments saying the AI feels the same. That’s exactly what was intended.

    From the original post:
    “The goal here is that the game should play the same as it does now, but we’ll be able to more consistently reproduce player reported issues”

    “To reiterate, the goal at this stage is for you all to experience no discernible changes”



    There seems to have been some misunderstanding with what this was supposed to do. This stage isn’t the Ai fix, this is laying the groundwork so that Kabam are fully in control of the reproduction of AI issues so they can better investigate, fix and improve in future.

    “By transitioning over to this new system, we will have more thorough control in identifying, replicating and triaging potential bugs in the AI system.”


    Hope that clears it up :)

    Why should the AI play the same it it's bad from the beggining, there should be discernable changes, like a higher bias for sp 1 and 2 instead of an insta sp3 that ends up making no sense for the character your fighting, a lesser reaction time instead of the one that makes you get parried if you happen to hit block, or maybe fixing the hit registration which has been talked about for a while
    Because this stage wasn’t intended to improve the AI, this stage was intended to recreate the AI so it’s easier to fix
    Is that why the AI in the arena has changed since Necropolis dropped and with cyber weekend + gifting event around the corner? Maybe the AI realized the players will grind units now for those events/content? The AI has developed a business brain, too.
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    idlavonidlavon Posts: 34 ★
    Fighting gwenmaster phase 1 is like a slot machine, instead of matching 3 we need 4. You miss 1? Too hulkling bad, please insert another unit to play
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    ZiegdudZiegdud Posts: 16 ★
    CCP? dang
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    ZiegdudZiegdud Posts: 16 ★
    XSquad said:

    I’m sorry but I am calling BS in the randomness of it. You have champs like Chavez and Mysterio spamming heavies from across the screen and it just so happens to be a major part of their kits. Nick fury will throw sp1 into blocks but it takes forever to get him to throw his sp2. These are intended and not random.

    Mys , Chavez: "oi, lemme pump some juice for ya, gimme a second"
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    SmasherM86SmasherM86 Posts: 69 ★
    "Our goal has always been to maintain a fair and challenging AI system" this is a big lie, your AI is cheap cheater and designed for robots not human beings, its so far from fair ...
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    Kappa2gKappa2g Posts: 275 ★★★
    You wanted to make a more consistent ai to obtain 100% consistent fight replays are per the post.

    Now Kabam, I challenge you to comb through the battleground data this season and see how many rounds people have lost due to baiting an AI that refuses to throw a sp2 for over 20 seconds, then compare the fights to the same round their opponent's had, good luck finding anything consistent there.
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    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,484 ★★★★
    It's becoming a real chore to play this game when quite literally 9/10 fights are turning into "all or nothing" nodes, I timed out of a BG game because I spent the entire fight trying to bait a sp2 that never came, nearly timed of the literal next fight, because I spent the entire fight trying to bait a sp2, realising I needed to win, I pushed him to sp3 with 3% health left, insta launch.

    The AI has always been passive and finicky at times, but it's become a joke now, to say the changes should be minimal and unnoticeable, yet having 3-5 minute fights where the AI absolutely refuses to launch a special, shouldn't happen, makes anyone with power gain a nightmare to fight because they just hold block, hold block, hold block, insta sp3. That and the launching sp3 while they are still flat out on the floor, or in the middle of a relic is another thing.
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