"BG is a competition" & other forum charades

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Comments

  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    obsidiman said:

    And @Stature you have still failed to answer the question of how Kabam determines who is placed into 1st pick purgatory. I know you want me to ask Kabam, but this was the crux of your original post. You brought this sentiment up.

    It's ok to say you don't have an answer or don't know.

    I don't know. I only know that I'm in there and will probably be there this entire season (might change in GC) and hopefully it'll go away next season (more likely it will pass on to someone else).

    To your question on recording the evidence, it isn't a realistic ask. I don't play that many BG matches consecutively. I play 5-6 matches to get the daily objectives done, and then a few more occasionally. The 100 matches are spread over 20 days or so. I only know that I'm picking first because I specifically focused on this during the current season after realising what was happening a week or so in - that was because I was trying to get a headstart on the solo milestones. In a typical season I wouldn't even have noticed this.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    If I wasn't already aware of the issue, the thread title alone would put me in a very skeptical frame of mind.

    If someone is going to start a thread, it is completely up to them how much and what kind of baggage they want to bring into it. But deciding to link the draft order issue to all other BG complaints is not a choice I would personally make, and implying that the response to all other BG complaints is completely dubious would have completely demotivated me from even looking at it had I not already made the decision to look at it on my own. It wraps itself in too many layers of aluminum foil to be otherwise taken seriously.
    Exactly. After the first paragraph, I knew the rest was just babbling.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★

    obsidiman said:

    I want to know why, that if a player does see a pattern, i.e. picking 1st a ton, the player does not take the time to record the evidence and post it to show actual proof behind the allegations.

    Recording say 100 matches is very very time consuming.
    Screenshots.....
    You can cherry pick screenshots though...
    Screenshot the champ selection and the win/loss tab for cross reference.
  • Sachhyam257Sachhyam257 Member Posts: 1,205 ★★★★

    obsidiman said:

    I want to know why, that if a player does see a pattern, i.e. picking 1st a ton, the player does not take the time to record the evidence and post it to show actual proof behind the allegations.

    Recording say 100 matches is very very time consuming.
    Screenshots.....
    You can cherry pick screenshots though...
    Screenshot the champ selection and the win/loss tab for cross reference.
    Just record the screen at that point lmao
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★

    obsidiman said:

    I want to know why, that if a player does see a pattern, i.e. picking 1st a ton, the player does not take the time to record the evidence and post it to show actual proof behind the allegations.

    Recording say 100 matches is very very time consuming.
    Screenshots.....
    You can cherry pick screenshots though...
    Screenshot the champ selection and the win/loss tab for cross reference.
    Just record the screen at that point lmao
    It's just a suggestion for saving time vs recording.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    1. Those of us that today BGs is a competition comment on matchmaking threads. I've never once stepped into a "who picks first" thread.
    2. The devs don't decide whether to "bury" an issue. They aren't forum moderators and don't do anything with threads.
    3. How do you know if you lost because you picked first or second? What's your data showing that you would have definitively won if you picked first?
    4. Why is it you think you can't win because you picked first? 12 seasons in and I've picked first and second and won both ways. I'm not a skilled player by any means either.

    I just can't understand the big deal of picking first or second.

    The person picking second has more information to craft their deck. They also get to place second on defence in rounds 1 and 3, when they have better information. In close games, this can be a decisive advantage.

    Where has anyone said you can't win because you picked first. Why does it matter? There is an advantage to picking second, it is of greater information, this is not a debatable issue - you know more if you are picking second and can alter you decisions to adjust for that.

    The whole reason that order of picks is supposed to be random is because there is an information advantage. It can be overcome, I have overcome it 60% of the time, others have more or less. But that is not the point.

    In soccer it does not matter who kicks off first. It is still tossed for, and the opposing team gets to pick the side they want to defend first (and gets to kick-off in the second half). In tennis, serving first is a small advantage, it still gets tossed for.

    Point isn't that it isn't a big deal - nobody knows if it is or not. It is an advantage/disadvantage, and it should not be locked in for some players.

    E.g. In round 3, I have 2 mystics and NF left, opponent has HT and two other champs. If I am placing first one of my mystics will end up playing against HT (on offense or defense), if I am placing second I can definitely avoid HT v mystics. Can I still win the match? Yes. But I'm likely to win placing second more often.
  • SandeepSSandeepS Member Posts: 1,269 ★★★★
    I might be in the minority that likes picking first
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Stature said:

    The question is why is it ok for the game to apply this disadvantage selectively, if BG is meant to be a competition.

    It isn't, and I've said so in other threads. However, while there is evidence this seems to be happening, that evidence is sporatic and doesn't seem to suggest a root cause. I know this was reported to the developers, but beyond that there's not much players can do about it.

    The simple facts are that much of the structural things players complain about regarding BG are intentional, and thus not bugs and not something that should be or will be fixed. This seems to be one that might actually be a bug, in which case it is something that should be fixed, but outside of reporting it there's nothing else complaining about it will accomplish, unless someone has additional data that might definitively point to a cause and can share it in a useful manner.

    I'm actually probably going to be tracking this next season, alongside the other gazillion things I track by hand already, just to see if there's any pattern to it. That's really the extent of what can be done, or rather what I can do about it.
    Thank you.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    If I wasn't already aware of the issue, the thread title alone would put me in a very skeptical frame of mind.

    If someone is going to start a thread, it is completely up to them how much and what kind of baggage they want to bring into it. But deciding to link the draft order issue to all other BG complaints is not a choice I would personally make, and implying that the response to all other BG complaints is completely dubious would have completely demotivated me from even looking at it had I not already made the decision to look at it on my own. It wraps itself in too many layers of aluminum foil to be otherwise taken seriously.
    Honestly, I did not expect any response to this thread. I imagined it would get binned like all others over the last 2-3 weeks.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    1. Those of us that today BGs is a competition comment on matchmaking threads. I've never once stepped into a "who picks first" thread.
    2. The devs don't decide whether to "bury" an issue. They aren't forum moderators and don't do anything with threads.
    3. How do you know if you lost because you picked first or second? What's your data showing that you would have definitively won if you picked first?
    4. Why is it you think you can't win because you picked first? 12 seasons in and I've picked first and second and won both ways. I'm not a skilled player by any means either.

    I just can't understand the big deal of picking first or second.

    The person picking second has more information to craft their deck. They also get to place second on defence in rounds 1 and 3, when they have better information. In close games, this can be a decisive advantage.

    Where has anyone said you can't win because you picked first. Why does it matter? There is an advantage to picking second, it is of greater information, this is not a debatable issue - you know more if you are picking second and can alter you decisions to adjust for that.

    The whole reason that order of picks is supposed to be random is because there is an information advantage. It can be overcome, I have overcome it 60% of the time, others have more or less. But that is not the point.

    In soccer it does not matter who kicks off first. It is still tossed for, and the opposing team gets to pick the side they want to defend first (and gets to kick-off in the second half). In tennis, serving first is a small advantage, it still gets tossed for.

    Point isn't that it isn't a big deal - nobody knows if it is or not. It is an advantage/disadvantage, and it should not be locked in for some players.

    E.g. In round 3, I have 2 mystics and NF left, opponent has HT and two other champs. If I am placing first one of my mystics will end up playing against HT (on offense or defense), if I am placing second I can definitely avoid HT v mystics. Can I still win the match? Yes. But I'm likely to win placing second more often.
    I really want to know where you're getting this percentages. You don't keep track of anything on paper or excel or have any recordable evidence but you say you 90-95% of the time you're picking first and now you say you've "overcome it" 60% of the time. You sure have a lot of data without any data.

    It's very much debatable and it's probably very much why you get a little hurt when people tell you it's a competition in these threads.

    Placing first or second has nothing to do with picking first or second. The champs you have remaining is a direct relation to the champs you picked during drafting. Maybe pay attention to the drafting and make appropriate selections vs worry whether you pick first or second.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    DNA3000 said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    If I wasn't already aware of the issue, the thread title alone would put me in a very skeptical frame of mind.

    If someone is going to start a thread, it is completely up to them how much and what kind of baggage they want to bring into it. But deciding to link the draft order issue to all other BG complaints is not a choice I would personally make, and implying that the response to all other BG complaints is completely dubious would have completely demotivated me from even looking at it had I not already made the decision to look at it on my own. It wraps itself in too many layers of aluminum foil to be otherwise taken seriously.
    Honestly, I did not expect any response to this thread. I imagined it would get binned like all others over the last 2-3 weeks.
    No one has done anything to those threads. They all have responses as well. Just not the ones you want to hear.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    There is no exaggeration here. I've picked first throughout this season, except once. There are enough online calculators to estimate the odds of this happening.

    You can use this coin flip calculator.

    The chance of getting 99 heads out of a 100 tosses is P(99) = 7.88860905221012e-29 which is 8 times out of 10^30 (quadrillion quadrillion, if that helps)
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★
    edited November 2023
    Stature said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    There is no exaggeration here. I've picked first throughout this season, except once. There are enough online calculators to estimate the odds of this happening.

    You can use this coin flip calculator.

    The chance of getting 99 heads out of a 100 tosses is P(99) = 7.88860905221012e-29 which is 8 times out of 10^30 (quadrillion quadrillion, if that helps)
    I've seen Bigfoot as well. I don't have any proof that I saw him but I did.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    Stature said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    There is no exaggeration here. I've picked first throughout this season, except once. There are enough online calculators to estimate the odds of this happening.

    You can use this coin flip calculator.

    The chance of getting 99 heads out of a 100 tosses is P(99) = 7.88860905221012e-29 which is 8 times out of 10^30 (quadrillion quadrillion, if that helps)
    I've seen Bigfoot as well. I don't have any proof that I saw him but I did.
    Good for you.

    Why exactly would I bother making that up? I'm not the only one who has this issue. There are threads on this for 3 weeks now.

    I have hit my milestones irrespective. It's not like anything will change because I pointed this out either. What exactly do you think I'm getting out of this?
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    Stature said:

    1. Those of us that today BGs is a competition comment on matchmaking threads. I've never once stepped into a "who picks first" thread.
    2. The devs don't decide whether to "bury" an issue. They aren't forum moderators and don't do anything with threads.
    3. How do you know if you lost because you picked first or second? What's your data showing that you would have definitively won if you picked first?
    4. Why is it you think you can't win because you picked first? 12 seasons in and I've picked first and second and won both ways. I'm not a skilled player by any means either.

    I just can't understand the big deal of picking first or second.

    The person picking second has more information to craft their deck. They also get to place second on defence in rounds 1 and 3, when they have better information. In close games, this can be a decisive advantage.

    Where has anyone said you can't win because you picked first. Why does it matter? There is an advantage to picking second, it is of greater information, this is not a debatable issue - you know more if you are picking second and can alter you decisions to adjust for that.

    The whole reason that order of picks is supposed to be random is because there is an information advantage. It can be overcome, I have overcome it 60% of the time, others have more or less. But that is not the point.

    In soccer it does not matter who kicks off first. It is still tossed for, and the opposing team gets to pick the side they want to defend first (and gets to kick-off in the second half). In tennis, serving first is a small advantage, it still gets tossed for.

    Point isn't that it isn't a big deal - nobody knows if it is or not. It is an advantage/disadvantage, and it should not be locked in for some players.

    E.g. In round 3, I have 2 mystics and NF left, opponent has HT and two other champs. If I am placing first one of my mystics will end up playing against HT (on offense or defense), if I am placing second I can definitely avoid HT v mystics. Can I still win the match? Yes. But I'm likely to win placing second more often.
    I really want to know where you're getting this percentages. You don't keep track of anything on paper or excel or have any recordable evidence but you say you 90-95% of the time you're picking first and now you say you've "overcome it" 60% of the time. You sure have a lot of data without any data.

    It's very much debatable and it's probably very much why you get a little hurt when people tell you it's a competition in these threads.

    Placing first or second has nothing to do with picking first or second. The champs you have remaining is a direct relation to the champs you picked during drafting. Maybe pay attention to the drafting and make appropriate selections vs worry whether you pick first or second.
    What do you mean placing first or second has nothing to do with picking first or second. If you pick first, you also place first. May be you should pay attention to how the game works before trolling.
  • World EaterWorld Eater Member Posts: 3,756 ★★★★★
    edited November 2023

    obsidiman said:

    I want to know why, that if a player does see a pattern, i.e. picking 1st a ton, the player does not take the time to record the evidence and post it to show actual proof behind the allegations.

    Recording say 100 matches is very very time consuming.
    Screenshots.....
    As if documenting 100 matches via screenshots and compiling everything into a video wouldn’t be time consuming either?!?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,059 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Stature said:

    1. Those of us that today BGs is a competition comment on matchmaking threads. I've never once stepped into a "who picks first" thread.
    2. The devs don't decide whether to "bury" an issue. They aren't forum moderators and don't do anything with threads.
    3. How do you know if you lost because you picked first or second? What's your data showing that you would have definitively won if you picked first?
    4. Why is it you think you can't win because you picked first? 12 seasons in and I've picked first and second and won both ways. I'm not a skilled player by any means either.

    I just can't understand the big deal of picking first or second.

    The person picking second has more information to craft their deck. They also get to place second on defence in rounds 1 and 3, when they have better information. In close games, this can be a decisive advantage.

    Where has anyone said you can't win because you picked first. Why does it matter? There is an advantage to picking second, it is of greater information, this is not a debatable issue - you know more if you are picking second and can alter you decisions to adjust for that.

    The whole reason that order of picks is supposed to be random is because there is an information advantage. It can be overcome, I have overcome it 60% of the time, others have more or less. But that is not the point.

    In soccer it does not matter who kicks off first. It is still tossed for, and the opposing team gets to pick the side they want to defend first (and gets to kick-off in the second half). In tennis, serving first is a small advantage, it still gets tossed for.

    Point isn't that it isn't a big deal - nobody knows if it is or not. It is an advantage/disadvantage, and it should not be locked in for some players.

    E.g. In round 3, I have 2 mystics and NF left, opponent has HT and two other champs. If I am placing first one of my mystics will end up playing against HT (on offense or defense), if I am placing second I can definitely avoid HT v mystics. Can I still win the match? Yes. But I'm likely to win placing second more often.
    I really want to know where you're getting this percentages. You don't keep track of anything on paper or excel or have any recordable evidence but you say you 90-95% of the time you're picking first and now you say you've "overcome it" 60% of the time. You sure have a lot of data without any data.

    It's very much debatable and it's probably very much why you get a little hurt when people tell you it's a competition in these threads.

    Placing first or second has nothing to do with picking first or second. The champs you have remaining is a direct relation to the champs you picked during drafting. Maybe pay attention to the drafting and make appropriate selections vs worry whether you pick first or second.
    What do you mean placing first or second has nothing to do with picking first or second. If you pick first, you also place first. May be you should pay attention to how the game works before trolling.
    You should be drafting to counter your opponent. Your example of 2 mystics and NF is just you drafting poorly.
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 7,778 Guardian
    Mofugger said:


    Goli doesn't control that many keyboards folks.

    Sounds like something Goli would say
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    There is no exaggeration here. I've picked first throughout this season, except once. There are enough online calculators to estimate the odds of this happening.

    You can use this coin flip calculator.

    The chance of getting 99 heads out of a 100 tosses is P(99) = 7.88860905221012e-29 which is 8 times out of 10^30 (quadrillion quadrillion, if that helps)
    So hard to stay away.. agh
    So you played 100+ matches and you picked 2nd 1 time.. and somehow that gives as a result 90-95% but you want us to trust your data and believe its not exaggerated.
    Should we question if you played 100+ matches with a 60%+ success rate picking up first 95% of the time (when its more like 99.5%)?
    Sorry not buying it.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★
    Mofugger said:

    Lotta people demanding proof are also making bold statements about the trustworthiness of others that they've never met without offering any...proof. Forum etiquette FTW.

    Goli doesn't control that many keyboards folks.

    I'm a Nigerian Prince about to receive a huge inheritance, if you help me pay for the paper work I will make sure you get the money you loaned me 100x.
  • AvengerDaanAvengerDaan Member Posts: 53

    Is there anybody here who can honestly claim they have picked 2nd 90-95% of the time or even 100% as some claim? 🤔
    It won't get you in trouble, matter of fact if its a real bug, admit it cause next season you could be on the other side.
    I don't even keep track so I wouldn't know, I just find it weird.


    Yes i picked second only once this season, in over 100 matches. I think picking first is a disadvantage, not in every match, but in some close matches it can be a deciding factor and quite frustrating. I am by no means the most skilled player, i hope next season it will be fixed. I send in a ticket to Kabam about it, and they told me it’s random. Statistically it can’t be, especially when i’m not the only one who is reporting this issue. So I don’t think they really care about it and won’t be fixed anytime soon… maybe I’ll be on the other side next season. That will help me win a few more matches. It will definitely NOT put me high up on the GC leaderbord all of a sudden, but will help me keep a few extra eldermarks i had to spend units on to get to 450k points this season.
  • AvengerDaanAvengerDaan Member Posts: 53
    I started on of these posts too by the way, not to simply complain, but to check if there are other people who are having the same issue, multiple replies suggest there are definitely more people who have this issue. I send in a ticket because I didn’t collect data on every single match this season, I don’t need to, because there is a party that has is, that’s keeping. They can easily determine if this is just a statistical anomaly, or a bug that’s affecting a (maybe small) subset of there players.
  • laserjohn26laserjohn26 Member Posts: 1,550 ★★★★★
    edited November 2023
    Stature said:

    I just find it funny that everyone who wrote in the forums about the pick first issue claim a 90-95% rate in which they had to pick first..
    Yes i believe the system could be broken, that maybe it is slanted go figure for what reason, but EVERYONE who agreed or wrote on those post have a really high percentage, it takes 2 people for a match, where are the people who have picked 2nd 90-95% of the time?
    It could be an issue but I believe the numbers are over inflated to make it more dramatic and some are even claiming high numbers due to mass hysteria.

    I've picked second once. I'm over 450K in solo points. You do the math. It's not 90-95%, it's being locked in to pick first. There is no probability attached here. It is likely that the only time I got second was with someone else who is also locked in.

    The people who are picking second are probably already in decent tiers in GC and are hoping this doesn't get any attention. This is what I mean by "BG is a competition" only being relevant when it serves them.
    Again simply link a YouTube video of you picking first even 5 times in a row and someone might actually believe this is anything other than sour grapes. There are 1000s of hours of bg streams onYouTube and miraculously not once has this ever happened.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,212 ★★★★★

    I just find it funny that everyone who wrote in the forums about the pick first issue claim a 90-95% rate in which they had to pick first..
    Yes i believe the system could be broken, that maybe it is slanted go figure for what reason, but EVERYONE who agreed or wrote on those post have a really high percentage, it takes 2 people for a match, where are the people who have picked 2nd 90-95% of the time?
    It could be an issue but I believe the numbers are over inflated to make it more dramatic and some are even claiming high numbers due to mass hysteria.

    This is dumb math, if I am picking first 90% of the time, it doesn’t mean someone picking second 10% because I’m not fighting the same person over and over
    Its not 1 person. And dumb math is getting to pick 2nd 1 time out of 100 and calling it 90-95%
  • This content has been removed.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    Stature said:

    o_o said:

    On one hand I wonder why anyone would assume exaggeration. On the other hand I think of Golivarez and I’m like, that’s why.

    Exaggerating is something the community does well.

    But I think many are skeptical because this is also used when people are talking about input issues or some mechanic that isn't working. They always say it happens all the time but usually can't provide any evidence.
    There is no exaggeration here. I've picked first throughout this season, except once. There are enough online calculators to estimate the odds of this happening.

    You can use this coin flip calculator.

    The chance of getting 99 heads out of a 100 tosses is P(99) = 7.88860905221012e-29 which is 8 times out of 10^30 (quadrillion quadrillion, if that helps)
    So hard to stay away.. agh
    So you played 100+ matches and you picked 2nd 1 time.. and somehow that gives as a result 90-95% but you want us to trust your data and believe its not exaggerated.
    Should we question if you played 100+ matches with a 60%+ success rate picking up first 95% of the time (when its more like 99.5%)?
    Sorry not buying it.
    Where is this 90-95% number coming from? I've said I've picked second once.

    I have 450K+ solo points. There would be a handful of matches with energy because someone in the initial threads said EM and energy have different odds of picking first. If I played all 100 matches with EM and got 450K points, I would have exactly 50% win rate (you get 9,000 points for one win and one loss with EM). Since I played a few matches with energy, I likely have a higher win rate than 50%, I said ~60%. Here's my solo points if that helps.


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