Guillo deathless.....wtf?

Trafalgarwar96

I downloaded the new version of the game
There is also the new deathless guillottine
I read her abilities and.....SHE IS TRASH
we are really farming 6 pieces for that trash can?
Come on

Wicket329

It’s basically Original Recipe Guillotine, from before her rework (very slight tweaks). Honestly, I’m kinda here for it. There was a lot of discussion at the time of her change about how some would prefer her original kit, and I’m glad to see it back. The sp3 and healing mechanics especially.

That being said… she did still need a buff back then. The issue wasn’t that she didn’t need it, it was that the buff that she got wasn’t well received.

ahmynuts

I mean what part of "These arent supposed to be gamebreaking, meta defining champs" did you misunderstand? They're supposed to be fun, except for thanos at the end which is supposed to be really good

Canucks37

They could have at least given us the updated Guillotine abilities. Not like that would be gamebreaking or meta defining. Now instead we are stuck with trash thats probably not even worth the iso

WinterFields

The point isn't to get a super-good champ that you will use often; the point is to have a cool looking champ that you can brag about having

Bendy

Im fine with this kit due to the dot chance seems to be not random plus the degen seems really powerful will see, only thing id love is the healing outside of the sig unless we can get it easily as i just love og guilly due to the regen being base kit than the sig but other than that im happy on trying her out and using her with og with the synergy that lets her heal more on damage dealt that seems really nice.

Pikolu

She has higher crit rate, more potent DoTs, loses only half of her souls on the sp3, and gains a soul every 5% instead of 6% of health taken off. I'm certainly excited to try her out since I enjoy the old guillotine before her rework

Sean_Who

Not to mention, these are part of a larger picture. I would hope the final champ is a lot better.

ReignkingTW

It's like Voltron. She's the left leg.

But combine them all...

Emilia90

She looks cool and I want her

ShashankGupta

@Pikolu i understood she has higher crit rate and dot but buffed version is way better for shorter fights and for questing buffed version deal way better damage than pre buff + buffed one has defensive threat on lvl1 with pain link debuff
I hope this is just a placeholder and not the actual version of her.If this is the actual version I will be the most sad person in the mcoc community.

Trafalgarwar96

ahmynuts said:

I mean what part of "These arent supposed to be gamebreaking, meta defining champs" did you misunderstand? They're supposed to be fun, except for thanos at the end which is supposed to be really good

There is a difference between gamebreaking and trash

Wicket329

Pikolu said:

She has higher crit rate, more potent DoTs, loses only half of her souls on the sp3, and gains a soul every 5% instead of 6% of health taken off. I'm certainly excited to try her out since I enjoy the old guillotine before her rework

This is a good outline of the changes from her original kit. I’m looking forward to her. Would be cool if her old synergies were added in too, but I get that’s excessive.

Trafalgarwar96

The original version of guillottine needed a buff and now we got an expensive version of the original guillottine that needed a buff.
And you guys are happy....

Sw0rdMaster

They've already started many times, the deathless champs won't be meta champs.

Emilia90

Trafalgarwar96 said:

The original version of guillottine needed a buff and now we got an expensive version of the original guillottine that needed a buff.
And you guys are happy....

OG gulliotine needed a buff but she had some really cool abilities. This version is tuned up anyways and the 7* version will hit a lot harder. She’s gonna be a fun champ that looks awesome and that’s great. Idk why you’re mad

Wicket329

Trafalgarwar96 said:

The original version of guillottine needed a buff and now we got an expensive version of the original guillottine that needed a buff.
And you guys are happy....

Expensive? I’ve collected every piece so far and it hasn’t cost me any money.

1st piece came to inbox, free
2nd piece came from reaching GC in one season. Doesn’t cost money
3rd piece is in Necropolis completion. This one is always available. There’s no need to do it immediately, you can do it when you’re ready and when you can do it unitless.
4th piece is in Banquet rewards. Yes, you will need to spend units, but they are units that are given to you in the milestones of the same event. It is not expensive.
5th piece we do not yet know, but Kabam has straight up said they have no intention of making it costly.

This champ is free. You didn’t have to do anything you wouldn’t have normally done.

Shadowstrike

They said it more than once these last couple of live streams that the deathless Champions were not going to be OP champions, they were going to be trophy Champions with slightly different kits then their counterparts.

If you are disappointed that they are not coming across as ridiculously broken, that's an unrealistic expectation that you put on yourself.

EdisonLaw

EdisonLaw

EdisonLaw

BigPoppaCBONE

This is setting the stage for Deathless AKA Pre-Nerf OG Thor, Scarlet Witch, and Dr. Strange.

Magrailothos

Well, this comment (in another thread) aged well:


Interestingly, she's not a direct copy of Nameless Guillotine (abilities here), suggesting a little thought has gone into her -
1 - She inflicts Degeneration instead of bleed, which is potentially useful
2 - She only consumes half her souls on SP3, instead of all of them.
3 - The other 'ability' that's tucked away is a very decent Armour Rating (1179 for the 7*)

I do think that it's a shame it'll be almost impossible to use her Awakened ability; which is handy and not game-breaking.

Also, unless she gets some soul-related synergies with the other Deathless champions (never say never...) then she won't be able to pull off any of OG Guilly's amazing damage in Everest content; since she won't be able to build any number of souls against tougher opponents. All of those tricks needed synergies to pull off.

Still, don't write her off just yet - the Degeneration damage that the 7* inflicts on (all) critical hits is pretty respectable


As a 7* she'll have a high Challenger Rating, and a decent critical rating, with Degen on every critical hit. I think it'll be interesting to see just how good a DoT Attacker she is...

Suros_moon

Shadowstrike said:

They said it more than once these last couple of live streams that the deathless Champions were not going to be OP champions, they were going to be trophy Champions with slightly different kits then their counterparts.

If you are disappointed that they are not coming across as ridiculously broken, that's an unrealistic expectation that you put on yourself.

If Im not mistaken, they also said that these champions should feel rewarding to acquire. Unless we’re supposed to feel some sadistic catharsis from watching others shell out units for pieces, then its not unfair to say that this is not a reward up to the task of the means of acquisition.

Personally Im hoping this is a place holder kit. If not, then they should be a LOT more upfront about how “similar” these champions will be to their original counterparts. There was never a point where they cam across saying that this would be a near copy/paste of Pre-Buff Guillotine even going as far as comparing her to the difference in feel you get when playing 2099

Pikolu

Pikolu said:

She has higher crit rate, more potent DoTs, loses only half of her souls on the sp3, and gains a soul every 5% instead of 6% of health taken off. I'm certainly excited to try her out since I enjoy the old guillotine before her rework

Last part that I forgot to mention is she places the degen on every crit instead of having like a 70% chance or whatever the old Guillotine had. That pretty much completes the differences between prebuff Guilly and deathless Guilly

Wicket329

Suros_moon said:

Shadowstrike said:

They said it more than once these last couple of live streams that the deathless Champions were not going to be OP champions, they were going to be trophy Champions with slightly different kits then their counterparts.

If you are disappointed that they are not coming across as ridiculously broken, that's an unrealistic expectation that you put on yourself.

If Im not mistaken, they also said that these champions should feel rewarding to acquire. Unless we’re supposed to feel some sadistic catharsis from watching others shell out units for pieces, then its not unfair to say that this is not a reward up to the task of the means of acquisition.

Personally Im hoping this is a place holder kit. If not, then they should be a LOT more upfront about how “similar” these champions will be to their original counterparts. There was never a point where they cam across saying that this would be a near copy/paste of Pre-Buff Guillotine even going as far as comparing her to the difference in feel you get when playing 2099

Again, what units are you shelling out? If you don’t want the champ, don’t get her. The only acquisition method tied to units is the Banquet milestone, and let’s be real, most people want to go after those milestones anyway. And it’s in a low milestone!

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with this talking point being brought up multiple times in here.

DNA3000

Suros_moon said:

Shadowstrike said:

They said it more than once these last couple of live streams that the deathless Champions were not going to be OP champions, they were going to be trophy Champions with slightly different kits then their counterparts.

If you are disappointed that they are not coming across as ridiculously broken, that's an unrealistic expectation that you put on yourself.

If Im not mistaken, they also said that these champions should feel rewarding to acquire. Unless we’re supposed to feel some sadistic catharsis from watching others shell out units for pieces, then its not unfair to say that this is not a reward up to the task of the means of acquisition.

Then don't. I'm going to be perfectly happy getting the Deathless champs because to me, the champs are trophy champs for achieving the requirements for acquisition, and if they have specific targeted uses all the better.

And there will be at least one very specific targeted use for them, and that is to pick up the fifth Deathless champ which was explicitly announced to be a very meta-relevant champ.

When the devs say something is going to be fun, or interesting, or rewarding, that's not a promise to every player that they will feel that way, and that is something that shouldn't have to be spelled out. They are saying they intended it to be that way, for some relevant segment of the playerbase. The Necropolis is fun, for the players it is intended to target. The arena is rewarding, for the players that want to grind resources in a game. Battlegrounds is exciting, for the players that want that kind of gameplay. The Deathless champs will be rewarding, for the end game players who buy into the process of chasing them, earning them, and ultimately use them to get the top reward of the Deathless ladder.

But not everyone will feel that way, because there's no way to make everyone feel that way.

DNA3000

Emilia90 said:

Trafalgarwar96 said:

The original version of guillottine needed a buff and now we got an expensive version of the original guillottine that needed a buff.
And you guys are happy....

OG gulliotine needed a buff but she had some really cool abilities. This version is tuned up anyways and the 7* version will hit a lot harder. She’s gonna be a fun champ that looks awesome and that’s great. Idk why you’re mad

There were many players who said, after the Guillotine buff, that they hated the changes and all she really needed was small tweaks to her numbers and abilities. Deathless Guillotine looks to me like exactly that. Whether that was intentional or just a consequence of the kinds of small adjustments they said that most of the Deathless champs would be, I still find that both interesting and amusing. Now the Guillotine 2.0 and the Guillotine 1.5 people will eventually be able to compare the two options side by side.

MethodMan69

Trafalgarwar96 said:

I downloaded the new version of the game
There is also the new deathless guillottine
I read her abilities and.....SHE IS TRASH
we are really farming 6 pieces for that trash can?
Come on

5 pieces

MethodMan69

Wicket329 said:

Trafalgarwar96 said:

The original version of guillottine needed a buff and now we got an expensive version of the original guillottine that needed a buff.
And you guys are happy....

Expensive? I’ve collected every piece so far and it hasn’t cost me any money.

1st piece came to inbox, free
2nd piece came from reaching GC in one season. Doesn’t cost money
3rd piece is in Necropolis completion. This one is always available. There’s no need to do it immediately, you can do it when you’re ready and when you can do it unitless.
4th piece is in Banquet rewards. Yes, you will need to spend units, but they are units that are given to you in the milestones of the same event. It is not expensive.
5th piece we do not yet know, but Kabam has straight up said they have no intention of making it costly.

This champ is free. You didn’t have to do anything you wouldn’t have normally done.

4th pieces is going to be in challenges , they'll probably release it Wednesday, 5th piece is the banquet rewards

ItsClobberinTime

How? You haven't even used her yet lol you don't know how potent that dot will be, and you don't know how good the crit rating stats focus will make her either. Just because she has a small kit doesn't mean she sucks.
Now I'm not saying she will be ridiculously strong by herself (cause they made it very clear on the livestreams, Deathless champs are meant to be used together as a team) but she doesn't look like trash at all.