Guillo deathless.....wtf?

I downloaded the new version of the game
There is also the new deathless guillottine
I read her abilities and.....SHE IS TRASH
we are really farming 6 pieces for that trash can?
Come on

Comments

Wicket329

The original version of guillottine needed a buff and now we got an expensive version of the original guillottine that needed a buff.
And you guys are happy....
OG gulliotine needed a buff but she had some really cool abilities. This version is tuned up anyways and the 7* version will hit a lot harder. She’s gonna be a fun champ that looks awesome and that’s great. Idk why you’re mad
There were many players who said, after the Guillotine buff, that they hated the changes and all she really needed was small tweaks to her numbers and abilities. Deathless Guillotine looks to me like exactly that. Whether that was intentional or just a consequence of the kinds of small adjustments they said that most of the Deathless champs would be, I still find that both interesting and amusing. Now the Guillotine 2.0 and the Guillotine 1.5 people will eventually be able to compare the two options side by side.

As one of the people who was super vocal about not loving New Guillotine at the time, I'm especially looking forward to Deathless Guillotine (although yeah, she needs to be duped for her big bursty regen but you can easily awaken the 6* that you get with the 7* for comparative testing).

New Guillotine is definitely better for the Mystic EQ Node that came out that basically gives her permanent power lock for that node, but that node was developed well after the rework. I'll certainly be testing them out in comparison in other content. A flat percentage Sp3 is a very cool, very unique mechanic that I'm excited to be getting back.

BigPoppaCBONE

I'm quite tired of Guillotine (Aegon can't get love?) and don't like the character or her infinite variants much, I'll get her and put her on the bench. I'll keep getting the rest of these Deathless too as long as they stay free or cheap (I'm not above spending for something I want) and are within my capability to get through solo content beating, in-game currency, or reasonable cash. I'll reconsider if I want to be out if there's an annoying Alliance component.

Wicket329

I'm quite tired of Guillotine (Aegon can't get love?) and don't like the character or her infinite variants much, I'll get her and put her on the bench. I'll keep getting the rest of these Deathless too as long as they stay free or cheap (I'm not above spending for something I want) and are within my capability to get through solo content beating, in-game currency, or reasonable cash. I'll reconsider if I want to be out if there's an annoying Alliance component.

Anti-Aegon: Starts off wildly powerful, gets weaker as the content goes on

ThePredator1001

She looks simple but that degen damage looks pretty solid, I think she’ll be a decent damage dealer and if we can awaken her, she might a decent BG attacker because she’ll do good damage and heal to finish near full HP. Should work well with the ghost rider relic too. Its not the kit I was hoping for but let’s wait to try her before calling her trash.

Pandingo

I still love platinumpool. Immortal iron fist. And honestly. I kinda wanna save just in case they release 7* UC

Webby72

I am a lil underwhelmed rn but interested to see how her damage appears with the ghost rider relic, since she appears to have a decently high crit rate, not to mention that armour rating will hopefully make her fairly tanky.

Suros_moon

They said it more than once these last couple of live streams that the deathless Champions were not going to be OP champions, they were going to be trophy Champions with slightly different kits then their counterparts.

If you are disappointed that they are not coming across as ridiculously broken, that's an unrealistic expectation that you put on yourself.
If Im not mistaken, they also said that these champions should feel rewarding to acquire. Unless we’re supposed to feel some sadistic catharsis from watching others shell out units for pieces, then its not unfair to say that this is not a reward up to the task of the means of acquisition.
Then don't. I'm going to be perfectly happy getting the Deathless champs because to me, the champs are trophy champs for achieving the requirements for acquisition, and if they have specific targeted uses all the better.

And there will be at least one very specific targeted use for them, and that is to pick up the fifth Deathless champ which was explicitly announced to be a very meta-relevant champ.

When the devs say something is going to be fun, or interesting, or rewarding, that's not a promise to every player that they will feel that way, and that is something that shouldn't have to be spelled out. They are saying they intended it to be that way, for some relevant segment of the playerbase. The Necropolis is fun, for the players it is intended to target. The arena is rewarding, for the players that want to grind resources in a game. Battlegrounds is exciting, for the players that want that kind of gameplay. The Deathless champs will be rewarding, for the end game players who buy into the process of chasing them, earning them, and ultimately use them to get the top reward of the Deathless ladder.

But not everyone will feel that way, because there's no way to make everyone feel that way.

Perhaps I missed the stream where they mentioned that (DNA) would feel happy about acquiring Guillotine. When they mention feeling rewarding to acquire I framed my mindset off of exactly what was said. Some quotes from the stream on youtube:

54:05: Question- “Are these just trophy champs”;
Response: “They have their own takes on already established kits… its not completely new but its not the same old kit, its not a reskin”.

59:45: “They won’t be meta for battlegrounds or AW”;

Twitch Stream from 3 days Ago:

29:00:

“Similar to those two champions [in reference to the difference between Guillotine 2099 and the original] this is not another reskin”.

“If we were to release guillotine with a new skin, that would kind of fall flat”.

I tempered my expectations around exactly what I was guided to temper my expectations around. Im not here complaining that this champion isnt going to be meta defining. Im here pointing to the fact that these quotes led me (and frankly I believe most of the community) to think we were going to be acquiring something that FELT different. To compare these changes to the differences we see between Guillotine 2099 and the original is laughable. You have got to let that age old “Cant make everyone happy” conflation with “We can deceptively market something” die out. If they came out and said this will be a numbers change- whatever. There’s perhaps an argument on the grounds of what a new trophy champion “ought” be but this is far removed from that. We were led to believe this champ would bring a fresh take comparable to that of Guillotine 2099 which is blatantly false and made even worse by the fact that they went out of their way to temper our expectation in terms of the character’s performance but not what the baseline kit would be. If you seriously try to tell me that the phrasing of the quotes is supposed to amount to me going “Ah, yes, a numbers bump” then we operate in clearly different frames of reference which is fine, I guess.

Suros_moon

They said it more than once these last couple of live streams that the deathless Champions were not going to be OP champions, they were going to be trophy Champions with slightly different kits then their counterparts.

If you are disappointed that they are not coming across as ridiculously broken, that's an unrealistic expectation that you put on yourself.
If Im not mistaken, they also said that these champions should feel rewarding to acquire. Unless we’re supposed to feel some sadistic catharsis from watching others shell out units for pieces, then its not unfair to say that this is not a reward up to the task of the means of acquisition.

Personally Im hoping this is a place holder kit. If not, then they should be a LOT more upfront about how “similar” these champions will be to their original counterparts. There was never a point where they cam across saying that this would be a near copy/paste of Pre-Buff Guillotine even going as far as comparing her to the difference in feel you get when playing 2099
Again, what units are you shelling out? If you don’t want the champ, don’t get her. The only acquisition method tied to units is the Banquet milestone, and let’s be real, most people want to go after those milestones anyway. And it’s in a low milestone!

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with this talking point being brought up multiple times in here.

Huh? What units do I reference in this post? I spent nothing but time acquiring these pieces which would make it odd you quote me of all people in this response.

Pikolu

I'm quite tired of Guillotine (Aegon can't get love?) and don't like the character or her infinite variants much, I'll get her and put her on the bench. I'll keep getting the rest of these Deathless too as long as they stay free or cheap (I'm not above spending for something I want) and are within my capability to get through solo content beating, in-game currency, or reasonable cash. I'll reconsider if I want to be out if there's an annoying Alliance component.
Anti-Aegon: Starts off wildly powerful, gets weaker as the content goes on

Anti-Ægon, starts at 6 persistent charges, each charge adds 100 combo to his combo meter but he loses a persistent charge at the start of every fight and his combo in the fight is permanently inverted. His sig adds 1-6 more charges at the start of the quest and a combo shield.

Would be absolutely broken in war, but not in necropolis.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Bendy

Wow, this is as lazy as it gets, we might as well introduce skins into the game. I personally wouldn’t be disappointed in that, but introducing a trophy champ with nearly an identical kit as the original is lame.
Let the shills disagree with me all day, but I was hoping for something “unique and interesting”, this isn’t it.
I can say my excitement for future deathless is dead, congrats on taking the big L.

They aint gonna be for everyone deathless guilly to me will always be a great achievement since she looks cool she a dot that none has immunity to plus better stat wise than og and to apply her dot is better than og which tbh she might be more useable than og guilly if u dont enjoy the heavy sp2 game style

DNA3000

Perhaps I missed the stream where they mentioned that (DNA) would feel happy about acquiring Guillotine.

The part you missed was not on stream. The part you missed is the part most people learn, when they live on Earth and encounter humans, all of which have completely different perspectives, and for which it is impossible to make even a small percentage of happy simultaneously.

Anyone who has ever asked "so where should we go for lunch" would not need to have it explained that when someone says "this is cool" they aren't making a promise that everyone in earshot is going to agree.

Rohith21

I mean what part of "These arent supposed to be gamebreaking, meta defining champs" did you misunderstand? They're supposed to be fun, except for thanos at the end which is supposed to be really good

Yea well, they also said it would be actually worth it for beating the everest content, reaching the gladiator circuit, and the challenge too.

HungaryHippo

It's amazing (but totally expected) to see the Kabamites out themselves on every thread, twisting themselves into pretzels to avoid any criticisms to Kabam.

If this kit, many summoners would not have bothered trying so hard to get to GC for the pieces.

Not even particularly upset (I like OG Guillotine so I'll probably rank and use this one) since each piece was essentially an add-on to how I play the game. However, to look at this and claim it was worth the hype, or anywhere in the ballpark of interesting, is to be so brazenly disingenuous that Hanlon's razor can no longer apply.

Suros_moon

Perhaps I missed the stream where they mentioned that (DNA) would feel happy about acquiring Guillotine.
The part you missed was not on stream. The part you missed is the part most people learn, when they live on Earth and encounter humans, all of which have completely different perspectives, and for which it is impossible to make even a small percentage of happy simultaneously.

Anyone who has ever asked "so where should we go for lunch" would not need to have it explained that when someone says "this is cool" they aren't making a promise that everyone in earshot is going to agree.

This is sad. I laid out a pretty clear picture of how this leans into some deceptive statements and your response is that Deathless Guillotine didn’t give us world peace. My response doesnt hinge on how many people are happy. It hinges only on the source of the discontent. Complaining because you said we “arent going to dominos” as we pull into their driveway has nothing to do with whether or not Im happy eating at dominos- only that the statement you gave was a false one.

Suros_moon

Perhaps I missed the stream where they mentioned that (DNA) would feel happy about acquiring Guillotine.
The part you missed was not on stream. The part you missed is the part most people learn, when they live on Earth and encounter humans, all of which have completely different perspectives, and for which it is impossible to make even a small percentage of happy simultaneously.

Anyone who has ever asked "so where should we go for lunch" would not need to have it explained that when someone says "this is cool" they aren't making a promise that everyone in earshot is going to agree.

Tell me, to which planet need I travel to get that “this is not a reskin” means “this is not a reskin”

DNA3000

Perhaps I missed the stream where they mentioned that (DNA) would feel happy about acquiring Guillotine.
The part you missed was not on stream. The part you missed is the part most people learn, when they live on Earth and encounter humans, all of which have completely different perspectives, and for which it is impossible to make even a small percentage of happy simultaneously.

Anyone who has ever asked "so where should we go for lunch" would not need to have it explained that when someone says "this is cool" they aren't making a promise that everyone in earshot is going to agree.
This is sad. I laid out a pretty clear picture of how this leans into some deceptive statements and your response is that Deathless Guillotine didn’t give us world peace. My response doesnt hinge on how many people are happy. It hinges only on the source of the discontent. Complaining because you said we “arent going to dominos” as we pull into their driveway has nothing to do with whether or not Im happy eating at dominos- only that the statement you gave was a false one.

I agree, this is sad. But this is a particular sadness I do not have to opt into.

Suros_moon

Perhaps I missed the stream where they mentioned that (DNA) would feel happy about acquiring Guillotine.
The part you missed was not on stream. The part you missed is the part most people learn, when they live on Earth and encounter humans, all of which have completely different perspectives, and for which it is impossible to make even a small percentage of happy simultaneously.

Anyone who has ever asked "so where should we go for lunch" would not need to have it explained that when someone says "this is cool" they aren't making a promise that everyone in earshot is going to agree.
This is sad. I laid out a pretty clear picture of how this leans into some deceptive statements and your response is that Deathless Guillotine didn’t give us world peace. My response doesnt hinge on how many people are happy. It hinges only on the source of the discontent. Complaining because you said we “arent going to dominos” as we pull into their driveway has nothing to do with whether or not Im happy eating at dominos- only that the statement you gave was a false one.
I agree, this is sad. But this is a particular sadness I do not have to opt into.

Now this is a cool outlook! You’re not being lied to, you’re simply opting in to being deceived. If mike had said this he’d be meme’d into oblivion. I guess expected more from the guardian program- but you said it yourself: “cant make everyone happy

“.

ESF

I guess I am baffled at what people expected.

Whether it’s Deathless/Nameless/Trophy, it’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

What did people expect it to look like — Icarus’ Flash Vision plus Quicksilver’s Slow plus Black Bolt’s True Damage plus Spider-Gwen’s Evade plus Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy Reduction plus plus plus plus plus?

It’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

It’s not a new character. What did people expect?

BigPoppaCBONE

I guess I am baffled at what people expected.

Whether it’s Deathless/Nameless/Trophy, it’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

What did people expect it to look like — Icarus’ Flash Vision plus Quicksilver’s Slow plus Black Bolt’s True Damage plus Spider-Gwen’s Evade plus Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy Reduction plus plus plus plus plus?

It’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

It’s not a new character. What did people expect?

I was surprised it actually ended up this different. I'm not interested in Guillotine at all, but this makes me more interested in the remaining deathless champs.

SirGamesBond

It's 100k points in arena.
I'll take it.

ESF

I guess I am baffled at what people expected.

Whether it’s Deathless/Nameless/Trophy, it’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

What did people expect it to look like — Icarus’ Flash Vision plus Quicksilver’s Slow plus Black Bolt’s True Damage plus Spider-Gwen’s Evade plus Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy Reduction plus plus plus plus plus?

It’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

It’s not a new character. What did people expect?
I was surprised it actually ended up this different. I'm not interested in Guillotine at all, but this makes me more interested in the remaining deathless champs.

I think sometimes people could really do more of what you just said, which is say, “OK, this isn’t for me, but there’s about a billion other things in this game to investigate.” JMO

Suros_moon

I guess I am baffled at what people expected.

Whether it’s Deathless/Nameless/Trophy, it’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

What did people expect it to look like — Icarus’ Flash Vision plus Quicksilver’s Slow plus Black Bolt’s True Damage plus Spider-Gwen’s Evade plus Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy Reduction plus plus plus plus plus?

It’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

It’s not a new character. What did people expect?
I was surprised it actually ended up this different. I'm not interested in Guillotine at all, but this makes me more interested in the remaining deathless champs.
I think sometimes people could really do more of what you just said, which is say, “OK, this isn’t for me, but there’s about a billion other things in this game to investigate.” JMO

In a vacuum this statement and sentiment are fine. Given this context, what you are asking people to do is not hold kabam to their word. Its not wrong of the community to be upset with being delivered a reskin after a list of quotes about how this was no reskin. Big difference in not everything needing to be made for you and being told to expect something then delivered something else

Shock29

I see everyone talking about how the Deathless champs were said to be game changing but that wasn't really what Kabam stated. They mentioned how each Deathless champion would have a similar kit to the normal version with a somewhat unique take but that they would not be meta defining.

Deathless Thanos, if I recall correctly, was said to be a meta defining champion. He's the target at the end of this journey and it can only be accomplished by acquiring all the Deathless champions. For the other Deathless champions, I think people have set their expectations too high. That being said, I can agree that a little more could have been put into her kit.

However, as I've seen others point out some nice details to her kit, I think she is being underrated. She has an excellent base crit rate and powerful Degens that, when stacked, will drain the opponent and feed her Souls for her SP3. And only half the Souls (rounded down) are consumed on each use of the SP3, making it much easier to get back to same amount the next time around to keep the damage loop going. Degens are also guaranteed on critical hits and the more Souls you get, the more Degen's are inflicted, the faster your opponent's health goes down.

And her synergies are a nice little touch. With all Deathless Champions, her Degen effects receives an 80% boost in potency.

She's not a crazy champ, and again, I do think a little more could have been added, but she looks like a solid damage champion with good base stats. Not meta defining or best-in-the-class but solid and one part of the puzzle that will give you the true gold at the end of the rainbow in Deathless Thanos.

Canucks37

I guess I am baffled at what people expected.

Whether it’s Deathless/Nameless/Trophy, it’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

What did people expect it to look like — Icarus’ Flash Vision plus Quicksilver’s Slow plus Black Bolt’s True Damage plus Spider-Gwen’s Evade plus Black Widow’s Ability Accuracy Reduction plus plus plus plus plus?

It’s Guillotine.

Big Freaking Sword. Souls. Some interaction with healing. Some type of DPS mechanic.

It’s not a new character. What did people expect?

How about an ability on her sp1? Is that too much to ask for in 2023?

Reidlos

As an absurd Guillotine fangirl, I just fear that this is the last we see of her for a while, and I don't want this to be what she goes out on.

Shock29

As an absurd Guillotine fangirl, I just fear that this is the last we see of her for a while, and I don't want this to be what she goes out on.

I truly believe her damage will be better than you think but you don't have to listen to me on that. What I would recommend is waiting to form your opinion on her until after we've all seen gameplay which will give us an idea of her strength and a real basis to judge off, other than a model and some numbers on the screen. They tell a story but we won't see the full extent of that story until we see those numbers in action.

What I'm curious about is whether or not Deathless champions will be subject to the champion rebalancing program. Anyone know something about this?

Pikolu

As an absurd Guillotine fangirl, I just fear that this is the last we see of her for a while, and I don't want this to be what she goes out on.

What I'm curious about is whether or not Deathless champions will be subject to the champion rebalancing program. Anyone know something about this?

I'm 90% sure they are

Ashacekar

They will probably update the correct later when we are actually able to get her with the last piece. Current one is placeholder.

Ashacekar

I'm quite tired of Guillotine (Aegon can't get love?) and don't like the character or her infinite variants much, I'll get her and put her on the bench. I'll keep getting the rest of these Deathless too as long as they stay free or cheap (I'm not above spending for something I want) and are within my capability to get through solo content beating, in-game currency, or reasonable cash. I'll reconsider if I want to be out if there's an annoying Alliance component.
Anti-Aegon: Starts off wildly powerful, gets weaker as the content goes on
Anti-Ægon, starts at 6 persistent charges, each charge adds 100 combo to his combo meter but he loses a persistent charge at the start of every fight and his combo in the fight is permanently inverted. His sig adds 1-6 more charges at the start of the quest and a combo shield.

Would be absolutely broken in war, but not in necropolis.

They should add him as Deathless Aegon. This makes sense for a dark mode Aegon.