Will nerfing revive farms ruin the state of the game?

So I’ve just done my second Necropolis run as a long time paragon F2P. It took me about 120 revives with a maxed 6 star Aegon, 7 Star r1 Prof X, Proxima, Heimdal, And Nick Fury (dead). With a nerf slotted for mid January, I don’t see how most players are supposed to complete this already difficult + die-now content once access to revive farming is changed. It seems like people will simply never do the made content, and they’ll like the game less, thereby damaging the player base. Do you think a nerf to revive farming will destroy the games balance? If not, how do you suggest that a good but resource limited player complete this content on the future?

Comments

MrSakuragi

I would rather have this type of content without revive farms than not have this kind of content and keep revive farms.

Loki_Poki1280

It would definitely hurt. I've only just got into Revive farming for Necro (wish I got into it earlier).

But this means I see both sides at this point.

I truthfully say, Apothecary is no where near a decent alternative. Of course it wasn't supposed to be revive farming on the same level but it's a horrible horrible way to farm revives.

Technically we get 2 a day. Where as revive farming gives much more. Buts its pretty fair. Energy refills + time into revives. It's not even guaranteed that we get a revive from the path anyway.

I feel (since Necro is the hardest content out at the moment) that it was indeed pretty fairly easy to farm revives, but doing just the apothecary to get it would be a big middle finger to f2p way to get revives. Instead the apothecary should be giving Infinite revives. It still takes a decent amount of energy to do apothecary (so it isn't really free or anything), so if the quest reset each time it is explored, it would be fair to the players that have the extra energy to give to the apothecary.

It's revive farming but in a controlled quest. Maybe u can even cap it at 10 or 5. But 1 from apothecary is absolute bad. Not to mention the easy difficulty is useless to pretty much 99% of the player base.

So back to the question . . . It will be game changing and it'll really suck. just knowing that if we need revives, we can't just go and farm some (and it's not even "free") And the replacement is . . . Y'all get the idea.

willrun4adonut

What I see happening (but is probably wrong) is this content was made with revive farming in mind. I'd see future content tuned down to address the lack of revive farming (whether node complexity or health pools or something else is tuned down, I don't know).

With that in mind, that would mean that some of the content out there will currently never be completed by some since they would need revive farming (ie necropolis, Abyss, EoP) but the new future content might be completed by them as revive farming won't be as needed.

This is my hope at least (as I farmed over 1000 revives for necro, abyss, EoP and LoL combined in the last year).

Loki_Poki1280

What I see happening (but is probably wrong) is this content was made with revive farming in mind. I'd see future content tuned down to address the lack of revive farming (whether node complexity or health pools or something else is tuned down, I don't know).

With that in mind, that would mean that some of the content out there will currently never be completed by some since they would need revive farming (ie necropolis, Abyss, EoP) but the new future content might be completed by them as revive farming won't be as needed.

This is my hope at least (as I farmed over 1000 revives for necro, abyss, EoP and LoL combined in the last year).

That's an amazing take on this. Hopefully that's the case!

phillgreen

For me, it means (slightly) more arena and keeping a buffer of units for content drops.

Instead of blasting through EQ I will leave the last lane open and hit all of them at once to trigger the revive purchase offers if there is content I need/want to do.

I think the most revives I ever farmed was 60.

Necropolis isn't going anywhere, find a way to get it done before the rewards lose relevance (I've never even completed Abyss and only did LOL for the labtron)

PT_99

If everyone began to revive spam hard content then how Kabam will make money during off "big 3 sales" period?

They need money to keep this game going, plus revive farming simply gave players to just brute force through content which does hurt game economy.

If Kabam stop making money from hard content then they will focus everything on money deals which will then create huge gap between f2p and whales which will lead to dead game.

So after nerf, do daily apothecary (needs buff) 22h revive mission, arena grind.

Each path need 70-100 revive from Aegon, so try to farm 4000 units or units+ revives, it will be hard for f2p but no way in hell impossible, some inconvenience to farm arena but surely it's getting buff after this much years, surely.

PT_99

It would definitely hurt. I've only just got into Revive farming for Necro (wish I got into it earlier).

But this means I see both sides at this point.

I truthfully say, Apothecary is no where near a decent alternative. Of course it wasn't supposed to be revive farming on the same level but it's a horrible horrible way to farm revives.

Technically we get 2 a day. Where as revive farming gives much more. Buts its pretty fair. Energy refills + time into revives. It's not even guaranteed that we get a revive from the path anyway.

I feel (since Necro is the hardest content out at the moment) that it was indeed pretty fairly easy to farm revives, but doing just the apothecary to get it would be a big middle finger to f2p way to get revives. Instead the apothecary should be giving Infinite revives. It still takes a decent amount of energy to do apothecary (so it isn't really free or anything), so if the quest reset each time it is explored, it would be fair to the players that have the extra energy to give to the apothecary.

It's revive farming but in a controlled quest. Maybe u can even cap it at 10 or 5. But 1 from apothecary is absolute bad. Not to mention the easy difficulty is useless to pretty much 99% of the player base.

So back to the question . . . It will be game changing and it'll really suck. just knowing that if we need revives, we can't just go and farm some (and it's not even "free") And the replacement is . . . Y'all get the idea.

Apothecary can give 20 revives + 14 in overflow + 7 stashed = 41
Double it for 22h event as well.
So 82 revives.

So let's be realistic and tone it to 70 revives. Pair with 10-20 minutes of Arena farming daily then I'll say Necro and any hard content in game is perfectly achievable, sure it'll mean you can no longer brute force everything after 2 days of revive farming and that's what Kabam want to stop.
To stop player from farming 200 revives in 2 days and just do everything for free.

Imagine Necro release during 3.2.6 revive farm times, everyone would have 600+ revives ready to finish 6 paths in a week. Nahh, I don't see how this is good for game in long run.

Apothecary needs buff yes, but not infinite buff, plus energy is free, it's not like farmer were buying energy with units.

After nerf, you can use that energy on monthly lower difficulty EQ and get 600 units, that's right, 600 units from auto fights.

70 revives + 1000 units? Should give good opportunity to any type of player to complete Necro paths. And farming those 70 will be very easy.

Ngoalong711

not if they release content like necro every 2 years . i can stack up alot of free crystals. without revives farm i still can have 60-70 revives in stash. and 60-70 revives is average when i did necro explored. opened 100-150 free 4h crystals every path

Aleor

I didn't know about farming when doing lol and aol but did necro with some farming except final path. So I can say for sure, there is a huge difference.
Also it won't make content harder or easier, it would only show down f2p players without many 4 hours horded crystals. At very least I'd love to see an opportunity to buy 1 lvl1 revive for 60 energy. It's not farming, it's not a very good deal compared to 1 lvl2 revive, it would be a great way to use energy when you have no other content to do, it would allow to convert saved energy refills into revives, it wouldn't waste your time on farming. I'd say it's a pretty good compromise, wich is actually why I don't really expect to see it

Archdemon_

For me, the "nerf" of being able to replay lower content (at my own energy expense) will have a negative impact in that it will take me a LOT longer to clear high content. Take Necro for example, farming revives made my first run unit free, however if thats taken away I will be forced to use units, and that amount of unit requirement will take a long time to accrue give how damn boring arena grinding is.

Nerfing it basically means I will NEVER do the EOP challenges, the abyss or anything where the rewards are now practically outdated.

WayWorn2525

For me personally, I won't spend money on this game, so the only time I've farmed was for the current Necropolis event. I've never done the EOP, GM's gaunlet due to the amount of revives. So once it's nerfed, I'm never going to do any events that requires large amounts of revives.
So once the nerf happens, I'll go back to my normal routine of doing the regular EQ and SE, and leave everything else alone.

Nemesis_17

Revive farming is definitely an unbalanced part of the game, but so is the apothecary. (in the opposite way) We went from one extreme to the other, and we need to meet in the middle. If they simply added another lvl 1 revive to easy difficulty and made hard give a guaranteed level 2 revive, it would honestly make a pretty big difference. I know that technically we’re able to grab around 80 revives which is a great amount, but who wants to wait a month and a half to get that stash? (Assuming you started from 0) I don’t think revive farming is healthy for the game, but what we have isn’t a good enough substitute.

ahmynuts

I'm in the middle. If Kabam go back and rework all content made with revive farming in mind, like labyrinth, abyss, the first 2 sets of Carinas challenges and they create future content without die now mechanics then i think all is good and it's not a big deal.

If they don't do either of these things it is an extremely large middle finger to all players of this game new and old. Especially the new ones

Twist1298

I saw a post here regarding the economy of the game, (Insert Proff Hoff lol) but truthfully the game has been around for almost a decade with certain things being available i.e revive farming, anything else that was advantage for the players. I remember them saying O.G. Witch would destroy the economy as a 5* and 6* same thing with Wolverine, but where the game is currently those two are solid in very niche matches. Revive farming only hurt the bottom line if people had access to certain champions, kinda why 12.0 existed but in the same breath when it comes to counters for certain nodes and situations if you don't have certain champions it doesn't matter anyway. I just wish Kabam was more honest and say look we took this away so we can continue to make more money from old content and newer, but we may adjust some older content to make it more playable for balance purposes. What I found interesting was the announcement of the second round of nerfing after the content creators that are most known to Kabam got in their Necro runs considering how often they monitor data. The daily events and cary event is not nearly enough for energy spent but that is the point, continued engagement.
We will a few years from now how it really affected the game but it definitely made a difference in the short term.

Vegeta9001

I don't remember the last time I've needed to revive farm, I've 100% necropolis and didn't spend a penny rl currency.

Pikolu

Of all everest content, necropolis was ridiculously easy to beat day 1. I used over 100 revives with r4 herc in abyss years after it came out, but I didn't ever use more than 100 revives (minus my first fight against bugged GM) in any of my necropolis runs. Most paths took me about 20-50 revives to beat with an optimal team which is insanely good for basically a day 1 necropolis push.

The fights in necropolis are all pretty fair (except that stryfe can burn for all I care), and I didn't need to farm revives. My total expenses for exploration was 3k units in EQ deals for team revives and boosts, and the one or two revives I bought.

If you're at the top of the game while also being decently skilled, then everest content like necropolis doesn't need farming of revives. If you take your time and do apothecary and 22hr events while also hoarding free crystals, then you can fairly easily do 1 path a month which is a pretty fair pace for the more average player.

ahmynuts

Of all everest content, necropolis was ridiculously easy to beat day 1. I used over 100 revives with r4 herc in abyss years after it came out, but I didn't ever use more than 100 revives (minus my first fight against bugged GM) in any of my necropolis runs. Most paths took me about 20-50 revives to beat with an optimal team which is insanely good for basically a day 1 necropolis push.

The fights in necropolis are all pretty fair (except that stryfe can burn for all I care), and I didn't need to farm revives. My total expenses for exploration was 3k units in EQ deals for team revives and boosts, and the one or two revives I bought.

If you're at the top of the game while also being decently skilled, then everest content like necropolis doesn't need farming of revives. If you take your time and do apothecary and 22hr events while also hoarding free crystals, then you can fairly easily do 1 path a month which is a pretty fair pace for the more average player.

I agree with you and it is great only for the Necropolis as of right now since they made it with the partial nerf to revive farming in mind. They need to go back and fix the previous content or else any new players that want to run them are SoL because the farms are all gone.

Fr though wtf was up with that Stryfe

GMAX77

I like being able to periodically farm consumables (revives, potions, etc.), but at the end of the day I'm getting to the point where if I can't clear a specific piece of content, I'm genuinely okay with that. Most stuff achieved through big wins will come in time and with patience so it becomes a pick and choose what you will and won't do in game.

Something that's not often brought up though is that the high amount of revives isn't the problem...it's the high amount of FREE revives. I don't think the company has an issue if I use 500 revives if I purchase them. That would likely be considered a win for a "for profit" company. The push back comes form the idea that the revives used to blow through content are farmed for free. I get both sides to that argument, but I just wanted to highlight the issue is not being able to revive...it's being able to essentially revive continually for free.

BigBlueOx

I just think certain content like Starlord Carina’s challenge is absolutely pointless now.

Wicket329

Of all everest content, necropolis was ridiculously easy to beat day 1. I used over 100 revives with r4 herc in abyss years after it came out, but I didn't ever use more than 100 revives (minus my first fight against bugged GM) in any of my necropolis runs. Most paths took me about 20-50 revives to beat with an optimal team which is insanely good for basically a day 1 necropolis push.

The fights in necropolis are all pretty fair (except that stryfe can burn for all I care), and I didn't need to farm revives. My total expenses for exploration was 3k units in EQ deals for team revives and boosts, and the one or two revives I bought.

If you're at the top of the game while also being decently skilled, then everest content like necropolis doesn't need farming of revives. If you take your time and do apothecary and 22hr events while also hoarding free crystals, then you can fairly easily do 1 path a month which is a pretty fair pace for the more average player.
I agree with you and it is great only for the Necropolis as of right now since they made it with the partial nerf to revive farming in mind. They need to go back and fix the previous content or else any new players that want to run them are SoL because the farms are all gone.

Fr though wtf was up with that Stryfe

What previous Everest content are people doing today? Labyrinth was easy with a 5* unascended Aegon. It would be laughable today. Abyss is still a challenge, for sure, but it also doesn’t have relevant rewards any more. There’s no reason to dive into that today other than for the experience of it, and if that’s what you’re looking for then nerfing it runs counter to that purpose. Same with many of the Carina’s challenges.

I think the mindset of calling this a revive farming nerf isn’t quite right. Because players can still acquire a near limitless amount of revives without spending real money. It just takes longer, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable.

Darkness275

Managing the revives spawned on paths won't hurt, if done right. That's the important part.

Currently, the way things are, it's unsustainable. We love it, but it's actually harmful to the game. Nerfing it completely and leaving the apothecary as our only revive source would also be bad as farming that at a 5% spawn rate isn't great.

Not great, but much closer to what it should be like if we're being honest with ourselves.

The EQ "rewards buff" was a failure. Removing the item spawns and putting in chests with "enhanced rewards" is a joke and Kabam really needs to acknowledge and address this already. We enjoy being able to see what rewards we're getting. Yes, that means we often repeat paths to gain a more promising item, but that's our choice and it's our energy we're spending. The event quests and side quests have been garbage since Kabam has implimented these "enhanced rewards" chests. The drop rate of everything except ISO bricks needs to be increased and the ISO brick drop rate decreased.

The thing that annoys me the most is when Kabam presents these changes as beneficial to the players, or what we want. Taking items off paths and replacing them with mystery chests that almost always give us ISO is not to our benefit, it's to yours. Being able to see what items we're going after is what benefits us. That's what we want.

The reason I'm going on this tangent is because this is what I suspect they will do to Story Quests too. In my humble opinion, it would be a step in the wrong direction. It's a move away from transparency.

Yes, revive farming needs to be better managed. But not removed completely and certainly not done in the way of "enhanced rewards" chests which almost exclusively give ISO bricks. I'd like to see the spawn rates from these chests. TBH I'd like them to go away completely and for you to return items to the paths.

No, I don't really want to be able to farm 150+ revives in a single week. I greatly appreciate the heads up and you leaving it in for the Necropolis pushes, but ultimately it does need to be managed.

What do I think is a reasonable amount? I'm not sure. What changes would I like to see us trend towards? I think Apothecary could do with an additional level, I also think the 5% spawn rate for revives could be boosted (a little, let's not get dramatic) and it would be nice if they could spawn on both paths. I would like to see the items spawning on the paths in all content. I would like item spawns to be progression based. Almost none of us need lvl 1 or lvl 2 healing potions anymore, team or individual. Please stop spawning them for me. My progression should mean the items that spawn for me are a little better. Not the best in game, but a little more useful. I'd also love more consumable trade-in options to be available for the sigil store or for the ones we have to get a reduced cooldown.

Zuro

It'll definetly hurt me as a FTP player but i'll probably survive just fine

Ironman3000

I do everything when it comes out so it won't hurt me. It'll really hurt others though.

I_tell_no_tales_1

Who needs revives
Just farm units

Jazz_Messenger

I am not opposed to nerfing revive farming. My only issue is that there are no other ways to use excess energy refills. I want to be able to use them to earn revives or something useful. There is nothing to use them on after monthly quests and side quests.

DNA3000

I don’t see how most players are supposed to complete this already difficult + die-now content once access to revive farming is changed.

Most people aren't supposed to. The whole point of Everest content is to be challenging to the strongest players, and any content that most or all players can complete is not challenging to the strongest players by definition.

The apothecary is not the opposite extreme from unlimited farming. No farming is the opposite extreme from unlimited farming. Content that you cannot revive in is the opposite extreme from unlimited farming.

The apothecary is still essentially free revives just rate throttled, and the nature of inventory space means the apothecary can, on its own, supply between 34 and 39 revives to a player to burn in any one piece of content and it is not the only source of revives and it only really fills one inventory slot. Combined with 22hr event farming a player can accumulate between 68 and 78 revives to burn on a single piece of content, before using other revive stashing tricks that can expand that even further.

When people talk about the apothecary being insufficient or just "the other extreme" that's completely specious. The range of possible revives players can theoretically use on content ranges from zero, to the literally hundreds they could use with the low Act farms. I say hundreds, but even that understates what was possible. It was, for all intents and purposes, completely unlimited. Zero is the floor, and the apothecary plus all other revive sources set the compromise in the range of 70 to 100 revives with reasonable effort, and even more with higher effort, without spending cash.

I dare anyone to come up with a design for challenge content in which using 105 revives would be a suitable end game challenge but restricting it to 70 would make it unreasonable.

DNA3000

I am not opposed to nerfing revive farming. My only issue is that there are no other ways to use excess energy refills. I want to be able to use them to earn revives or something useful. There is nothing to use them on after monthly quests and side quests.

I use mine on the ISO dailies when I have completely run out of things to do. Which means after I completely explore every monthly EQ tier, most of which I auto fight through, and which awards units among the rewards.

Also, there isn't automatically supposed to be super valuable ways to use everything. Not every player has tons of extra energy based on how they play, or for that matter tons of extra anything else. The game's rewards are balanced around player averages, and that means the bulk of players get a reasonable amount of energy, while some at the far end might still be energy starved and those on the other end might have tons of energy. If there was something very valuable they could get with that energy, that energy wouldn't be "extra" it would in effect be rewards everyone without that energy wasn't getting because the balance point for rewards would shift upward.

Once you've done everything you want to do, you can let that energy expire, or you can chase after a diminishing pool of rewards that are deliberately diminishing, because otherwise that energy isn't extra energy.