Will nerfing revive farms ruin the state of the game?
Thorki
Member Posts: 57 ★★
So I’ve just done my second Necropolis run as a long time paragon F2P. It took me about 120 revives with a maxed 6 star Aegon, 7 Star r1 Prof X, Proxima, Heimdal, And Nick Fury (dead). With a nerf slotted for mid January, I don’t see how most players are supposed to complete this already difficult + die-now content once access to revive farming is changed. It seems like people will simply never do the made content, and they’ll like the game less, thereby damaging the player base. Do you think a nerf to revive farming will destroy the games balance? If not, how do you suggest that a good but resource limited player complete this content on the future?
Will nerfing revive farms ruin the state of the game? 181 votes
Nerfing revive access will ruin the state of the game for me
37%
68 votes
Nerfing revive access will not seriously negatively effect the state of the game for me
62%
113 votes
2
Comments
But this means I see both sides at this point.
I truthfully say, Apothecary is no where near a decent alternative. Of course it wasn't supposed to be revive farming on the same level but it's a horrible horrible way to farm revives.
Technically we get 2 a day. Where as revive farming gives much more. Buts its pretty fair. Energy refills + time into revives. It's not even guaranteed that we get a revive from the path anyway.
I feel (since Necro is the hardest content out at the moment) that it was indeed pretty fairly easy to farm revives, but doing just the apothecary to get it would be a big middle finger to f2p way to get revives. Instead the apothecary should be giving Infinite revives. It still takes a decent amount of energy to do apothecary (so it isn't really free or anything), so if the quest reset each time it is explored, it would be fair to the players that have the extra energy to give to the apothecary.
It's revive farming but in a controlled quest. Maybe u can even cap it at 10 or 5. But 1 from apothecary is absolute bad. Not to mention the easy difficulty is useless to pretty much 99% of the player base.
So back to the question . . . It will be game changing and it'll really suck. just knowing that if we need revives, we can't just go and farm some (and it's not even "free") And the replacement is . . . Y'all get the idea.
With that in mind, that would mean that some of the content out there will currently never be completed by some since they would need revive farming (ie necropolis, Abyss, EoP) but the new future content might be completed by them as revive farming won't be as needed.
This is my hope at least (as I farmed over 1000 revives for necro, abyss, EoP and LoL combined in the last year).
Instead of blasting through EQ I will leave the last lane open and hit all of them at once to trigger the revive purchase offers if there is content I need/want to do.
I think the most revives I ever farmed was 60.
Necropolis isn't going anywhere, find a way to get it done before the rewards lose relevance (I've never even completed Abyss and only did LOL for the labtron)
They need money to keep this game going, plus revive farming simply gave players to just brute force through content which does hurt game economy.
If Kabam stop making money from hard content then they will focus everything on money deals which will then create huge gap between f2p and whales which will lead to dead game.
So after nerf, do daily apothecary (needs buff) 22h revive mission, arena grind.
Each path need 70-100 revive from Aegon, so try to farm 4000 units or units+ revives, it will be hard for f2p but no way in hell impossible, some inconvenience to farm arena but surely it's getting buff after this much years, surely.
Double it for 22h event as well.
So 82 revives.
So let's be realistic and tone it to 70 revives. Pair with 10-20 minutes of Arena farming daily then I'll say Necro and any hard content in game is perfectly achievable, sure it'll mean you can no longer brute force everything after 2 days of revive farming and that's what Kabam want to stop.
To stop player from farming 200 revives in 2 days and just do everything for free.
Imagine Necro release during 3.2.6 revive farm times, everyone would have 600+ revives ready to finish 6 paths in a week. Nahh, I don't see how this is good for game in long run.
Apothecary needs buff yes, but not infinite buff, plus energy is free, it's not like farmer were buying energy with units.
After nerf, you can use that energy on monthly lower difficulty EQ and get 600 units, that's right, 600 units from auto fights.
70 revives + 1000 units? Should give good opportunity to any type of player to complete Necro paths. And farming those 70 will be very easy.
Also it won't make content harder or easier, it would only show down f2p players without many 4 hours horded crystals. At very least I'd love to see an opportunity to buy 1 lvl1 revive for 60 energy. It's not farming, it's not a very good deal compared to 1 lvl2 revive, it would be a great way to use energy when you have no other content to do, it would allow to convert saved energy refills into revives, it wouldn't waste your time on farming. I'd say it's a pretty good compromise, wich is actually why I don't really expect to see it
Nerfing it basically means I will NEVER do the EOP challenges, the abyss or anything where the rewards are now practically outdated.
So once the nerf happens, I'll go back to my normal routine of doing the regular EQ and SE, and leave everything else alone.
If they don't do either of these things it is an extremely large middle finger to all players of this game new and old. Especially the new ones
We will a few years from now how it really affected the game but it definitely made a difference in the short term.
The fights in necropolis are all pretty fair (except that stryfe can burn for all I care), and I didn't need to farm revives. My total expenses for exploration was 3k units in EQ deals for team revives and boosts, and the one or two revives I bought.
If you're at the top of the game while also being decently skilled, then everest content like necropolis doesn't need farming of revives. If you take your time and do apothecary and 22hr events while also hoarding free crystals, then you can fairly easily do 1 path a month which is a pretty fair pace for the more average player.
Fr though wtf was up with that Stryfe
Something that's not often brought up though is that the high amount of revives isn't the problem...it's the high amount of FREE revives. I don't think the company has an issue if I use 500 revives if I purchase them. That would likely be considered a win for a "for profit" company. The push back comes form the idea that the revives used to blow through content are farmed for free. I get both sides to that argument, but I just wanted to highlight the issue is not being able to revive...it's being able to essentially revive continually for free.
I think the mindset of calling this a revive farming nerf isn’t quite right. Because players can still acquire a near limitless amount of revives without spending real money. It just takes longer, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable.
Currently, the way things are, it's unsustainable. We love it, but it's actually harmful to the game. Nerfing it completely and leaving the apothecary as our only revive source would also be bad as farming that at a 5% spawn rate isn't great.
Not great, but much closer to what it should be like if we're being honest with ourselves.
The EQ "rewards buff" was a failure. Removing the item spawns and putting in chests with "enhanced rewards" is a joke and Kabam really needs to acknowledge and address this already. We enjoy being able to see what rewards we're getting. Yes, that means we often repeat paths to gain a more promising item, but that's our choice and it's our energy we're spending. The event quests and side quests have been garbage since Kabam has implimented these "enhanced rewards" chests. The drop rate of everything except ISO bricks needs to be increased and the ISO brick drop rate decreased.
The thing that annoys me the most is when Kabam presents these changes as beneficial to the players, or what we want. Taking items off paths and replacing them with mystery chests that almost always give us ISO is not to our benefit, it's to yours. Being able to see what items we're going after is what benefits us. That's what we want.
The reason I'm going on this tangent is because this is what I suspect they will do to Story Quests too. In my humble opinion, it would be a step in the wrong direction. It's a move away from transparency.
Yes, revive farming needs to be better managed. But not removed completely and certainly not done in the way of "enhanced rewards" chests which almost exclusively give ISO bricks. I'd like to see the spawn rates from these chests. TBH I'd like them to go away completely and for you to return items to the paths.
No, I don't really want to be able to farm 150+ revives in a single week. I greatly appreciate the heads up and you leaving it in for the Necropolis pushes, but ultimately it does need to be managed.
What do I think is a reasonable amount? I'm not sure. What changes would I like to see us trend towards? I think Apothecary could do with an additional level, I also think the 5% spawn rate for revives could be boosted (a little, let's not get dramatic) and it would be nice if they could spawn on both paths. I would like to see the items spawning on the paths in all content. I would like item spawns to be progression based. Almost none of us need lvl 1 or lvl 2 healing potions anymore, team or individual. Please stop spawning them for me. My progression should mean the items that spawn for me are a little better. Not the best in game, but a little more useful. I'd also love more consumable trade-in options to be available for the sigil store or for the ones we have to get a reduced cooldown.
Just farm units
The apothecary is not the opposite extreme from unlimited farming. No farming is the opposite extreme from unlimited farming. Content that you cannot revive in is the opposite extreme from unlimited farming.
The apothecary is still essentially free revives just rate throttled, and the nature of inventory space means the apothecary can, on its own, supply between 34 and 39 revives to a player to burn in any one piece of content and it is not the only source of revives and it only really fills one inventory slot. Combined with 22hr event farming a player can accumulate between 68 and 78 revives to burn on a single piece of content, before using other revive stashing tricks that can expand that even further.
When people talk about the apothecary being insufficient or just "the other extreme" that's completely specious. The range of possible revives players can theoretically use on content ranges from zero, to the literally hundreds they could use with the low Act farms. I say hundreds, but even that understates what was possible. It was, for all intents and purposes, completely unlimited. Zero is the floor, and the apothecary plus all other revive sources set the compromise in the range of 70 to 100 revives with reasonable effort, and even more with higher effort, without spending cash.
I dare anyone to come up with a design for challenge content in which using 105 revives would be a suitable end game challenge but restricting it to 70 would make it unreasonable.
Also, there isn't automatically supposed to be super valuable ways to use everything. Not every player has tons of extra energy based on how they play, or for that matter tons of extra anything else. The game's rewards are balanced around player averages, and that means the bulk of players get a reasonable amount of energy, while some at the far end might still be energy starved and those on the other end might have tons of energy. If there was something very valuable they could get with that energy, that energy wouldn't be "extra" it would in effect be rewards everyone without that energy wasn't getting because the balance point for rewards would shift upward.
Once you've done everything you want to do, you can let that energy expire, or you can chase after a diminishing pool of rewards that are deliberately diminishing, because otherwise that energy isn't extra energy.