Moon knight buff would be great but i like this idea better: Give us a completely new Moon knight with mystic class, loved that mummy suit outfit in his mcu show. Hope we can see Khonshu in his sp3 as well. A pre fight where we can switch between Moon knight and Mr knight would be sick but I'm probably asking for too much now😂
This is an interesting thread, good idea to make the post! I’ve looked at the list and I’d like to make a couple of offers for champs that I believe are in the wrong locations. I’ve only mentioned champs I have personal experience with or have theory crafted before. I’d happily give reasons for these but I thought I’d give the list first and wait to see if any in depth questions are raised:
A Abomination move 1 synergy into base kit Black bolt move a few synergies into base kit Bpcw interesting kit, numbers buff and maybe a couple of new abilities Black widow attack increase, maybe introducing a difficult upkeep sabotage debuff for 100% aar against science Daredevil classic only attack increase Iron fist move a few synergies into base kit, attack increase Kamala khan move 1 synergy into base kit, maybe attack increase Ronan no buff needed at all Star lord move 1 synergy into base kit
B Agent venom no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit Cable no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit Ddhk only numbers buff, perhaps some kind of adjustment net to become usable with recoil tree Dormammu only attack increase Ghost rider only numbers buff Psylocke no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit Wolverine no buff needed at all
C Peni no buff needed at all Sandman no buff needed at all
I don’t have any real issues w D and E
F Kang no buff needed at all (a little controversial I know lol I think he is one of the most underrated champs in the entire game)
Please don’t take this as me being mean because it’s not, I like this post a lot, just giving my personal criticisms
This is an interesting thread, good idea to make the post! I’ve looked at the list and I’d like to make a couple of offers for champs that I believe are in the wrong locations. I’ve only mentioned champs I have personal experience with or have theory crafted before. I’d happily give reasons for these but I thought I’d give the list first and wait to see if any in depth questions are raised:
A Abomination move 1 synergy into base kit Black bolt move a few synergies into base kit Bpcw interesting kit, numbers buff and maybe a couple of new abilities Black widow attack increase, maybe introducing a difficult upkeep sabotage debuff for 100% aar against science Daredevil classic only attack increase Iron fist move a few synergies into base kit, attack increase Kamala khan move 1 synergy into base kit, maybe attack increase Ronan no buff needed at all Star lord move 1 synergy into base kit
B Agent venom no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit Cable no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit Ddhk only numbers buff, perhaps some kind of adjustment net to become usable with recoil tree Dormammu only attack increase Ghost rider only numbers buff Psylocke no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit Wolverine no buff needed at all
C Peni no buff needed at all Sandman no buff needed at all
I don’t have any real issues w D and E
F Kang no buff needed at all (a little controversial I know lol I think he is one of the most underrated champs in the entire game)
Please don’t take this as me being mean because it’s not, I like this post a lot, just giving my personal criticisms
Hey @Webby72, I’m glad you enjoyed this thread! Also, it wasn’t mean at all! On the contrary, the purpose of this thread is to have an open discussion on this topic. If anything, thank you for your contribution.
Let’s dive into it:
My thoughts on A:
Abom barely has a kit - his specials don’t do anything. That’s actually sad. Moving one synergy into his base kit is not going to be enough unfortunately. Same thing with Black Widow, Daredevil, Kamala Khan and Iron Fist.
Black Bolt - something super unique can be done with this champion. I’m not quite sure what it is, but he needs a full rework. Moving synergies into his base kit is not going to be enough. Don’t get me wrong, doing that will make him hit hard, but he will not have his gimmick - which is related to sound and high frequencies.
Ronan’s Stun is OP and I’ve had so much fun with it - who remembers this? https://youtu.be/rGiykgTzrIM?si=VnvF5BiGJNyGNphQ Because of that video alone I’m okay with Ronan not receiving a buff.
Star-Lord - perhaps the most versatile and exciting champion to work with. I can theory craft all day about what can be done with this champion. His Element Gun, connection to Ship and his Master of the Sun abilities could bring so much to this character. Merely reducing him to a Combo Meter champion doesn’t do him any justice. Not to mention, the synergies he could bring to the Guardians including Thor, Nebula and Adam Warlock.
My thoughts on B:
I agree with most of your recommendations here. Most of the champs have a solid foundation and need that extra piece, or tuning up in a couple of places to be more viable. However for Wolverine, although I love the simplicity of his kit, I feel like he deserves something more interesting. Again, a gimmick.
My thoughts on C:
Peni - increase combat power rate by 5% only. Sandman - I like Sandman, but they shouldn’t have nerfed his buff this much - they should have tuned it down just a bit. That was just poor from Kabam.
My thoughts on Increase block proficiency for Cull Obsidian. Increase Spiderman Supreme’s base health by 10-15%.
My thoughts on F: Oh, the things that could be done with Kang and Time … just give us Superior Kang and his ship Evangelos …
So those are my thoughts! If you have any in-depth perspective on some champs, I’m looking forward to reading them!
I would personally not want Moon Knight to have a full rework if it meant removing his lunar based abilities.
He's the only champ in the game who's abilities change based on the actual moon in real life (besides Werewolf) and I'd love Kabam to expand on that and make him a fun gimmick champ.
How about Moon Knight's Moon Phases based on Pre fights... so you can select which phase suits to your needs.
Hi @Rookiie! I’m glad you enjoyed my contribution! Not quoting your message as I don’t want you to have to scroll past the whole thing again haha but I will include the parts I wanna respond to here:
‘Abom barely has a kit - his specials don’t do anything. That’s actually sad. Moving one synergy into his base kit is not going to be enough unfortunately. Same thing with Black Widow, Daredevil, Kamala Khan and Iron Fist.’
I do somewhat agree with you on these champions (aside from Kamala and iron fist but I’ll expand on those in a moment), but I was approaching this purely in terms of ‘what would make the current example of these champions good in the game’ if that makes sense. These champions as well as black bolt, star lord and kang would definitely deserve a full rework in order to give them more in depth kits from a lore perspective, but balance wise I don’t think it’s necessary. It’s interesting that we were somewhat approaching this from different directions though!
I was approaching this as ‘classic daredevil already has 115% chance to evade projectiles and cannot miss due to any reason, he doesn’t need much else in his kit other than perhaps a damage tune up’ or ‘abomination with the red guardian synergy is one of the highest poison dps champs in the game’ if that makes sense.
Kamala I feel already has a well fledged out kit with good utility and a smooth playstyle, it is simply a little tight and with comparatively low pay off. She has got a relatively simple kit, but her heavy and each special attack (as well as special attacks as a whole) have unique abilities and she also has an immunity and block proficiency that scales with her active buffs. I don’t feel that her kit is bare bones enough to require major changes.
Iron fist however is an odd champion. I do feel that his base kit is empty enough to justify a full rework but if including the super skrull and Shang chi synergies, he’s justified in not needing one any more imo. They allow his special attacks to be guaranteed crits with a 90% chance to inflict armour break, and also make his armour breaks act as staggers on the opponent. The Jessica jones synergy also allows him to inflict stagger on well timed block and fate seal on perfectly timed block. I feel that by including the first two synergies (and MAYBE fate seal on perfectly timed block) he could be improved to have an interesting kit worthy of a tune up rather than rework.
I do feel that iron fist is quite good *I am intentionally ignoring the nova synergy for this btw* (albeit with below average damage output) with a full synergy team and feel that the inclusion of those 2 synergies and an increase in armour break duration would make him maybe not the best champion in the game but good enough to be useable, especially if it means he can stagger champs that are immune to stagger with his armour breaks, giving him a useful niche.
I will also comment on wolverine and kang quickly, just to say that I understand that you would want a gimmick for wolverine but I honestly like that he is very similar to x-23 but with power invested into one of (if not the) strongest regenerations in the game instead of damage output. I honestly feel like the regen alone IS his gimmick if that makes sense.
As for Kang, again for lore reasons he deserves a full rework but balance wise he has possibly the strongest single power drain in the game, and can prevent his opponent from getting to a sp3 unless they have some form of increased power gain. He has a heal block on his sp3 that is (rightfully) laughed at but with the gg relic at a high rank he can keep it up 2/3 of the time with aggressive play, not as good as other champs but in a push can be useful. He has a constant armour up buff which can be very strong and make him tanky if you don’t use a special attack (nice synergy with war machine for energy resist) and he has a stun on his sp1 long enough to stun lock and end out the last bit of a fight if you build to 2.9 bars of power and know how much damage to expect from him.
None of these things individually are worth bringing him on a team, but all combined along with the Apoc synergy for damage and I find him often fitting well in my team for content that asks for tech utility. I feel that he is such a good all rounder for tech utility that the drawback of requiring a synergy slot is very fair, much like how I feel agent venom should require at least 1, preferably 2 synergies to be as good as he is in this trinity.
I hope that this post is enjoyed! I thought I’d explain why I feel that kang is underrated, and give insight into why I genuinely enjoy iron fist and his kit but I haven’t got much more of detail to say
Great post @Webby72! I really like the approach you took because it would at least make those champs viable in-game, but I hope you see my perspective on why gimmicks are important, because it creates more appeal - I recall when Kabam John said he wanted Juggernaut to feel more like Juggernaut - and look where he ended up with his Unstoppable mechanic - that was great design imo.
Great post @Webby72! I really like the approach you took because it would at least make those champs viable in-game, but I hope you see my perspective on why gimmicks are important, because it creates more appeal - I recall when Kabam John said he wanted Juggernaut to feel more like Juggernaut - and look where he ended up with his Unstoppable mechanic - that was great design imo.
I think the Kabam John point is a crucial one and something which is, at the same time, hard to actually pin down. Getting the feel of a champion's personality through a kit design is very hard. I rave about Starky a lot because his play style and the character himself fits with the fast, fluid and evasive nature of the kit. Kingpin is the same, strong, resilient and overbearing.
A good number of these champions, especially those in the lower brackets, have existing synergies which could be rolled into their base kits to improve them. The mechanics for them are already implemented in-game (as attackers) so the main question is how those changes would affect them nodes etc where they are used as defenders. It's a challenge but I wonder if a more focused approach like that could help when it comes to testing that impact in-game. Or, the changes could be limited to when the character is used as an attacker only, or something.
I would suspect that Kabam have 'buckets' of their own. There's lots that could be done. The question is what can be done given limited development resources and the need to control costs.
Great post @Webby72! I really like the approach you took because it would at least make those champs viable in-game, but I hope you see my perspective on why gimmicks are important, because it creates more appeal - I recall when Kabam John said he wanted Juggernaut to feel more like Juggernaut - and look where he ended up with his Unstoppable mechanic - that was great design imo.
I think the Kabam John point is a crucial one and something which is, at the same time, hard to actually pin down. Getting the feel of a champion's personality through a kit design is very hard. I rave about Starky a lot because his play style and the character himself fits with the fast, fluid and evasive nature of the kit. Kingpin is the same, strong, resilient and overbearing.
A good number of these champions, especially those in the lower brackets, have existing synergies which could be rolled into their base kits to improve them. The mechanics for them are already implemented in-game (as attackers) so the main question is how those changes would affect them nodes etc where they are used as defenders. It's a challenge but I wonder if a more focused approach like that could help when it comes to testing that impact in-game. Or, the changes could be limited to when the character is used as an attacker only, or something.
I would suspect that Kabam have 'buckets' of their own. There's lots that could be done. The question is what can be done given limited development resources and the need to control costs.
That’s a great point @Chobbly and glad you liked the thread. One wonders why this aspect of the game has limited resources, when arguably 36% of the champion pool still require buffs. As you mentioned, rolling synergies into base kits would be welcomed by the playerbase, especially if it accelerates this roadmap and drives up the value of many champions in the pool.
Moon knight buff would be great but i like this idea better: Give us a completely new Moon knight with mystic class, loved that mummy suit outfit in his mcu show. Hope we can see Khonshu in his sp3 as well. A pre fight where we can switch between Moon knight and Mr knight would be sick but I'm probably asking for too much now😂
If this is a list of punching power, it's possible. However, it lacks consideration for utility and synergies
There’s also another way to look at this argument. I personally think that the champs in Bucket C are packed with baseline utility, but the potency needs to be enhanced:
Doctor Octopus (increase potency and duration of inflicted debuffs) Blade (increase potency of Danger Sense) Medusa (increase potency and duration of Armour Breaks) Night Thrasher (increase duration of debuffs) Peni Parker (increase offensive combat power rate, or not as @Pikolu mentioned above, I need to test) Rogue (increase duration of buffs)
So I do think there is consideration for utility in this sense, because it will make these champs more sustainable in this meta. Utility is closely tied to punching power in the examples given above.
Rather than increase the potency of danger sense, I’d rather his danger sense work for all dimensional beings and villains in his base kit and rework his GR synergy to do something else. That’s my biggest problem with him atm, his danger sense is fine while it’s up, but it’s still such a rare tag. It would give him the desired bump in BGs and war.
If this is a list of punching power, it's possible. However, it lacks consideration for utility and synergies
There’s also another way to look at this argument. I personally think that the champs in Bucket C are packed with baseline utility, but the potency needs to be enhanced:
Doctor Octopus (increase potency and duration of inflicted debuffs) Blade (increase potency of Danger Sense) Medusa (increase potency and duration of Armour Breaks) Night Thrasher (increase duration of debuffs) Peni Parker (increase offensive combat power rate, or not as @Pikolu mentioned above, I need to test) Rogue (increase duration of buffs)
So I do think there is consideration for utility in this sense, because it will make these champs more sustainable in this meta. Utility is closely tied to punching power in the examples given above.
Rather than increase the potency of danger sense, I’d rather his danger sense work for all dimensional beings and villains in his base kit and rework his GR synergy to do something else. That’s my biggest problem with him atm, his danger sense is fine while it’s up, but it’s still such a rare tag. It would give him the desired bump in BGs and war.
Honestly dude that’s exactly what I meant by increase potency, but I didn’t write it clearly. I should have written it to say expand to all dimensional beings and villains - thanks dude!
And that’s exactly the right idea with Blade, he really doesn’t need anything else.
Definitely not the most exciting champion but hey! Hope it turns out well!
Wouldn't have been my first choice and I hate fighting him as a defender but he's nice paired up with Kingpin and The Hood. Both Kingpin and Mr Sinister power lock the opponent after they use a special attack which is a really nice bit of utility.
Definitely not the most exciting champion but hey! Hope it turns out well!
Wouldn't have been my first choice and I hate fighting him as a defender but he's nice paired up with Kingpin and The Hood. Both Kingpin and Mr Sinister power lock the opponent after they use a special attack which is a really nice bit of utility.
Strange choice really. Expected a Nightcrawler buff after the update that ended with BAMF!
Definitely not the most exciting champion but hey! Hope it turns out well!
Wouldn't have been my first choice and I hate fighting him as a defender but he's nice paired up with Kingpin and The Hood. Both Kingpin and Mr Sinister power lock the opponent after they use a special attack which is a really nice bit of utility.
Strange choice really. Expected a Nightcrawler buff after the update that ended with BAMF!
This aged well lawl. Another champ out of Bucket A!
Thanks @Cat_Murdock for these awesome infographics.
Comments
A
Abomination move 1 synergy into base kit
Black bolt move a few synergies into base kit
Bpcw interesting kit, numbers buff and maybe a couple of new abilities
Black widow attack increase, maybe introducing a difficult upkeep sabotage debuff for 100% aar against science
Daredevil classic only attack increase
Iron fist move a few synergies into base kit, attack increase
Kamala khan move 1 synergy into base kit, maybe attack increase
Ronan no buff needed at all
Star lord move 1 synergy into base kit
B
Agent venom no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit
Cable no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit
Ddhk only numbers buff, perhaps some kind of adjustment net to become usable with recoil tree
Dormammu only attack increase
Ghost rider only numbers buff
Psylocke no buff needed/ move 1 synergy into base kit
Wolverine no buff needed at all
C
Peni no buff needed at all
Sandman no buff needed at all
I don’t have any real issues w D and E
F
Kang no buff needed at all (a little controversial I know lol I think he is one of the most underrated champs in the entire game)
Please don’t take this as me being mean because it’s not, I like this post a lot, just giving my personal criticisms
Let’s dive into it:
My thoughts on A:
Abom barely has a kit - his specials don’t do anything. That’s actually sad. Moving one synergy into his base kit is not going to be enough unfortunately. Same thing with Black Widow, Daredevil, Kamala Khan and Iron Fist.
Black Bolt - something super unique can be done with this champion. I’m not quite sure what it is, but he needs a full rework. Moving synergies into his base kit is not going to be enough. Don’t get me wrong, doing that will make him hit hard, but he will not have his gimmick - which is related to sound and high frequencies.
Ronan’s Stun is OP and I’ve had so much fun with it - who remembers this?
Because of that video alone I’m okay with Ronan not receiving a buff.
Star-Lord - perhaps the most versatile and exciting champion to work with. I can theory craft all day about what can be done with this champion. His Element Gun, connection to Ship and his Master of the Sun abilities could bring so much to this character. Merely reducing him to a Combo Meter champion doesn’t do him any justice. Not to mention, the synergies he could bring to the Guardians including Thor, Nebula and Adam Warlock.
My thoughts on B:
I agree with most of your recommendations here. Most of the champs have a solid foundation and need that extra piece, or tuning up in a couple of places to be more viable. However for Wolverine, although I love the simplicity of his kit, I feel like he deserves something more interesting. Again, a gimmick.
My thoughts on C:
Peni - increase combat power rate by 5% only.
Sandman - I like Sandman, but they shouldn’t have nerfed his buff this much - they should have tuned it down just a bit. That was just poor from Kabam.
My thoughts on
Increase block proficiency for Cull Obsidian.
Increase Spiderman Supreme’s base health by 10-15%.
My thoughts on F:
Oh, the things that could be done with Kang and Time … just give us Superior Kang and his ship Evangelos …
So those are my thoughts! If you have any in-depth perspective on some champs, I’m looking forward to reading them!
‘Abom barely has a kit - his specials don’t do anything. That’s actually sad. Moving one synergy into his base kit is not going to be enough unfortunately. Same thing with Black Widow, Daredevil, Kamala Khan and Iron Fist.’
I do somewhat agree with you on these champions (aside from Kamala and iron fist but I’ll expand on those in a moment), but I was approaching this purely in terms of ‘what would make the current example of these champions good in the game’ if that makes sense. These champions as well as black bolt, star lord and kang would definitely deserve a full rework in order to give them more in depth kits from a lore perspective, but balance wise I don’t think it’s necessary. It’s interesting that we were somewhat approaching this from different directions though!
I was approaching this as ‘classic daredevil already has 115% chance to evade projectiles and cannot miss due to any reason, he doesn’t need much else in his kit other than perhaps a damage tune up’ or ‘abomination with the red guardian synergy is one of the highest poison dps champs in the game’ if that makes sense.
Kamala I feel already has a well fledged out kit with good utility and a smooth playstyle, it is simply a little tight and with comparatively low pay off. She has got a relatively simple kit, but her heavy and each special attack (as well as special attacks as a whole) have unique abilities and she also has an immunity and block proficiency that scales with her active buffs. I don’t feel that her kit is bare bones enough to require major changes.
Iron fist however is an odd champion. I do feel that his base kit is empty enough to justify a full rework but if including the super skrull and Shang chi synergies, he’s justified in not needing one any more imo. They allow his special attacks to be guaranteed crits with a 90% chance to inflict armour break, and also make his armour breaks act as staggers on the opponent. The Jessica jones synergy also allows him to inflict stagger on well timed block and fate seal on perfectly timed block. I feel that by including the first two synergies (and MAYBE fate seal on perfectly timed block) he could be improved to have an interesting kit worthy of a tune up rather than rework.
I do feel that iron fist is quite good *I am intentionally ignoring the nova synergy for this btw* (albeit with below average damage output) with a full synergy team and feel that the inclusion of those 2 synergies and an increase in armour break duration would make him maybe not the best champion in the game but good enough to be useable, especially if it means he can stagger champs that are immune to stagger with his armour breaks, giving him a useful niche.
I will also comment on wolverine and kang quickly, just to say that I understand that you would want a gimmick for wolverine but I honestly like that he is very similar to x-23 but with power invested into one of (if not the) strongest regenerations in the game instead of damage output. I honestly feel like the regen alone IS his gimmick if that makes sense.
As for Kang, again for lore reasons he deserves a full rework but balance wise he has possibly the strongest single power drain in the game, and can prevent his opponent from getting to a sp3 unless they have some form of increased power gain. He has a heal block on his sp3 that is (rightfully) laughed at but with the gg relic at a high rank he can keep it up 2/3 of the time with aggressive play, not as good as other champs but in a push can be useful. He has a constant armour up buff which can be very strong and make him tanky if you don’t use a special attack (nice synergy with war machine for energy resist) and he has a stun on his sp1 long enough to stun lock and end out the last bit of a fight if you build to 2.9 bars of power and know how much damage to expect from him.
None of these things individually are worth bringing him on a team, but all combined along with the Apoc synergy for damage and I find him often fitting well in my team for content that asks for tech utility. I feel that he is such a good all rounder for tech utility that the drawback of requiring a synergy slot is very fair, much like how I feel agent venom should require at least 1, preferably 2 synergies to be as good as he is in this trinity.
I hope that this post is enjoyed! I thought I’d explain why I feel that kang is underrated, and give insight into why I genuinely enjoy iron fist and his kit but I haven’t got much more of detail to say
I think the Kabam John point is a crucial one and something which is, at the same time, hard to actually pin down. Getting the feel of a champion's personality through a kit design is very hard. I rave about Starky a lot because his play style and the character himself fits with the fast, fluid and evasive nature of the kit. Kingpin is the same, strong, resilient and overbearing.
A good number of these champions, especially those in the lower brackets, have existing synergies which could be rolled into their base kits to improve them. The mechanics for them are already implemented in-game (as attackers) so the main question is how those changes would affect them nodes etc where they are used as defenders. It's a challenge but I wonder if a more focused approach like that could help when it comes to testing that impact in-game. Or, the changes could be limited to when the character is used as an attacker only, or something.
I would suspect that Kabam have 'buckets' of their own. There's lots that could be done. The question is what can be done given limited development resources and the need to control costs.
Curious to know who’s next on the buff list
And that’s exactly the right idea with Blade, he really doesn’t need anything else.
Definitely not the most exciting champion but hey! Hope it turns out well!
Thanks @Cat_Murdock for these awesome infographics.