To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says mute. None of it matters.
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says mute. None of it matters.
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Edit: it is all my personal interpretation of OPs post so please don't bombard me saying that that's not what he is saying
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Edit: it is all my personal interpretation of OPs post so please don't bombard me saying that that's not what he is saying
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
Says the person who said me and another person has Kabam running down their chins. I noticed you're only responding nicely to anyone who's agreeing with you. You don't like your opinion challenged, I get it.
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
I interpreted from the title that you might be suggesting them to change the flow of funds(or something like that) But then the problem that arises is employees not being payed for the time they are not working
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
This isn’t remotely hostile? Like, even a little bit?
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
This is still a bad idea for many reasons.
First, This is a live service game. Live service games live and die by their ability to continuously churn out content. Destiny 2, Overwatch 2, and Diablo 4 are all examples of other live service games. Destiny 2 is the most relevant comparison, as it too is an extremely old game with serious spaghetti code problems. Bungie could never say “alright y’all, no new content until we fix these bugs,” because the player base would just move to a different game and Destiny 2 would tank. The same is true here for Kabam, especially because spaghetti code induced problems would take many, many, many months to fix. Probably well over a year, as it would essentially require rebuilding the game from the bottom. And hiring additional people on for it wouldn’t solve that, as DNA pointed out, because they’d have to learn the existing system first.
Second, I have no idea why you think the art team/champion design team/quest team aren’t permanent employees. That’s just a baseless assumption. You’re asking for people (who had nothing to do with the problems) to lose their incomes. Yeah, I ain’t getting on board with that line of thinking.
Ultimately the idea of “shut it down until we can get a handle on it” just doesn’t make sense. It’s a bad idea.
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
I interpreted from the title that you might be suggesting them to change the flow of funds(or something like that) But then the problem that arises is employees not being payed for the time they are not working
Bro why are you acting like it takes Albert Einstein to know that's what was being talked about lmfaoo. On some "Well according to my calculations" type stuff lol.
We all know what OP is saying, it doesn't make the idea any less bad
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
Says the person who said me and another person has Kabam running down their chins. I noticed you're only responding nicely to anyone who's agreeing with you. You don't like your opinion challenged, I get it.
Not quite. Shadow explained how they think it work and how I was wrong. I thanked them for how it was done and not condescending like you. I'm sure you have to deal with some many people who say thing you don't agree with. I'm cool with the trolls but an actual response earned a response from me. Just because you choose to respond or try to say something you think is correct or profound. You could do it as if I'm just a normal person like you. So stop defecting if what I said isn't feasible then it's not feasible. Sound good pumpkin?
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
This isn’t remotely hostile? Like, even a little bit?
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
This is still a bad idea for many reasons.
First, This is a live service game. Live service games live and die by their ability to continuously churn out content. Destiny 2, Overwatch 2, and Diablo 4 are all examples of other live service games. Destiny 2 is the most relevant comparison, as it too is an extremely old game with serious spaghetti code problems. Bungie could never say “alright y’all, no new content until we fix these bugs,” because the player base would just move to a different game and Destiny 2 would tank. The same is true here for Kabam, especially because spaghetti code induced problems would take many, many, many months to fix. Probably well over a year, as it would essentially require rebuilding the game from the bottom. And hiring additional people on for it wouldn’t solve that, as DNA pointed out, because they’d have to learn the existing system first.
Second, I have no idea why you think the art team/champion design team/quest team aren’t permanent employees. That’s just a baseless assumption. You’re asking for people (who had nothing to do with the problems) to lose their incomes. Yeah, I ain’t getting on board with that line of thinking.
Ultimately the idea of “shut it down until we can get a handle on it” just doesn’t make sense. It’s a bad idea.
I agree with you there The method suggested will surely lead to permanent employees losing their income and is not advisable
Maybe there is some alternative like taking the game down for 2-3 days and then doing bug fixes(or atleast identifying how big the problem is)
The old way of taking the game down for 1 day for scheduled maintenance and bug fix was also good
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
Says the person who said me and another person has Kabam running down their chins. I noticed you're only responding nicely to anyone who's agreeing with you. You don't like your opinion challenged, I get it.
Not quite. Shadow explained how they think it work and how I was wrong. I thanked them for how it was done and not condescending like you. I'm sure you have to deal with some many people who say thing you don't agree with. I'm cool with the trolls but an actual response earned a response from me. Just because you choose to respond or try to say something you think is correct or profound. You could do it as if I'm just a normal person like you. So stop defecting if what I said isn't feasible then it's not feasible. Sound good pumpkin?
I have an actual response. You could have saved so much time by just googling your question.
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
This isn’t remotely hostile? Like, even a little bit?
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
This is still a bad idea for many reasons.
First, This is a live service game. Live service games live and die by their ability to continuously churn out content. Destiny 2, Overwatch 2, and Diablo 4 are all examples of other live service games. Destiny 2 is the most relevant comparison, as it too is an extremely old game with serious spaghetti code problems. Bungie could never say “alright y’all, no new content until we fix these bugs,” because the player base would just move to a different game and Destiny 2 would tank. The same is true here for Kabam, especially because spaghetti code induced problems would take many, many, many months to fix. Probably well over a year, as it would essentially require rebuilding the game from the bottom. And hiring additional people on for it wouldn’t solve that, as DNA pointed out, because they’d have to learn the existing system first.
Second, I have no idea why you think the art team/champion design team/quest team aren’t permanent employees. That’s just a baseless assumption. You’re asking for people (who had nothing to do with the problems) to lose their incomes. Yeah, I ain’t getting on board with that line of thinking.
Ultimately the idea of “shut it down until we can get a handle on it” just doesn’t make sense. It’s a bad idea.
More passive aggressive then anything. I am seeing that the idea May not be probably but I at least asked. If I'm wrong I'm wrong thank you for being respectful in your response
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
Says the person who said me and another person has Kabam running down their chins. I noticed you're only responding nicely to anyone who's agreeing with you. You don't like your opinion challenged, I get it.
Not quite. Shadow explained how they think it work and how I was wrong. I thanked them for how it was done and not condescending like you. I'm sure you have to deal with some many people who say thing you don't agree with. I'm cool with the trolls but an actual response earned a response from me. Just because you choose to respond or try to say something you think is correct or profound. You could do it as if I'm just a normal person like you. So stop defecting if what I said isn't feasible then it's not feasible. Sound good pumpkin?
I have an actual response. You could have saved so much time by just googling your question.
Yet you couldn't just say that. If you have I probably would have responded and not Chauked it up to a troll response like most of the beginning of the tread.
To be all the way fair, OP never said anything about random Kabam employees rolling their sleeves up and getting at some code. Someone else said that wasn't going to happen and then everyone after piled on like the opposite was stated.
OP didn't say to shut the game down for a month. Rotating through multiple side events + players testing content fixes. I assume this would come with appropriate rewards so players wouldn't miss out on any of a typical monthly item haul. What real difference does it make if a champ is introduced but doesn't feature in the month? IIRC, didn't Korg drop without being in the content?
"Not making content" or whatever OP suggests won't do anything. It would be like trying to fill a straw with water but not plugging one end.
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
☝️☝️☝️ well someone got hostile.
This isn’t remotely hostile? Like, even a little bit?
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Thank you for understanding. Not jumping to random thoughts
This is still a bad idea for many reasons.
First, This is a live service game. Live service games live and die by their ability to continuously churn out content. Destiny 2, Overwatch 2, and Diablo 4 are all examples of other live service games. Destiny 2 is the most relevant comparison, as it too is an extremely old game with serious spaghetti code problems. Bungie could never say “alright y’all, no new content until we fix these bugs,” because the player base would just move to a different game and Destiny 2 would tank. The same is true here for Kabam, especially because spaghetti code induced problems would take many, many, many months to fix. Probably well over a year, as it would essentially require rebuilding the game from the bottom. And hiring additional people on for it wouldn’t solve that, as DNA pointed out, because they’d have to learn the existing system first.
Second, I have no idea why you think the art team/champion design team/quest team aren’t permanent employees. That’s just a baseless assumption. You’re asking for people (who had nothing to do with the problems) to lose their incomes. Yeah, I ain’t getting on board with that line of thinking.
Ultimately the idea of “shut it down until we can get a handle on it” just doesn’t make sense. It’s a bad idea.
I agree with you there The method suggested will surely lead to permanent employees losing their income and is not advisable
Maybe there is some alternative like taking the game down for 2-3 days and then doing bug fixes(or atleast identifying how big the problem is)
The old way of taking the game down for 1 day for scheduled maintenance and bug fix was also good
You don't have to take the game down you just use the monthly eq as just side event to test areas being updated and hand out rewards as you see fit. I'm not asking for anyone but a qualified team to use the lull in extra content and use that time to fix alot of the current issue bugs. The design and art team can focus on the next EOP content or other endgame content.at no point is anyone gonna be put out of work just a fixed attack. He'll it could be a new yearly event where Forge explain how the contest is functioning like the danger room (as it is a map) and unordered for everything to keep running smooth he has to run diagnostics on certain parts IE bg or aw or act 6.2 something.
@DNA3000 please read my reply above. And also please quote a message from me where I said graphic designer should start coding?
I don’t know what resources you think Kabam can allocate to improving the game engine, that isn’t already working on the game engine. I’m assuming you mean shifting resources from other development efforts, because you said “OP has a point” and the OP’s one and only point was to shift dev resources from other areas like making new champs and releasing new content to fixing engine issues.
As to your experience, you work in an IT group that services multiple departments. The MCOC team doesn’t have people who justify their existence by working on other games until something important comes along. They are hired to work on one game only, and if there was a lot of spare resources sitting around waiting to be “reprioritized” they’d be gone, not looking for another department to bill their time to.
Also, congratulations working for one of the few industries hated more than the video games industry. I’m sure your company makes it a priority to change that perception by addressing the complaints from everyone on Earth. Have you considered taking the OP’s advice, maybe shut down completely for a few months and fix those issues?
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Edit: it is all my personal interpretation of OPs post so please don't bombard me saying that that's not what he is saying
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Edit: it is all my personal interpretation of OPs post so please don't bombard me saying that that's not what he is saying
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
Every reasonably sized company works with a concept of a budget. In most companies every department has a budget. Every company has people coming in and leaving, in turn that company makes decisions on which vacancies to fill and which job profiles to expand on.
It is fairly simple, there either aren't enough devs or they aren't spending enough time on testing. Both those issues can be sorted by expanding headcount so that the company has more testing capacity. That decision can be taken at the discretion of the company. The decision to not add more testing capacity is a conscious one, taken with (probably) full understanding of the impact it has on product quality.
I don't doubt that everyone at the company would prefer to have a bug free and perfect game. Nobody deliberately wants to ship a buggy product. But what is acceptable and not acceptable is a choice people at the company make. To suggest that the team handling the game which accounts for 1/5th of the company's revenues, cannot get approval for additional testers if they wanted to is hard to believe. One of the few reasons they wouldn't get that approval is if that hire cannot drive additional engagement or revenues.
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
Every reasonably sized company works with a concept of a budget. In most companies every department has a budget. Every company has people coming in and leaving, in turn that company makes decisions on which vacancies to fill and which job profiles to expand on.
It is fairly simple, there either aren't enough devs or they aren't spending enough time on testing. Both those issues can be sorted by expanding headcount so that the company has more testing capacity. That decision can be taken at the discretion of the company. The decision to not add more testing capacity is a conscious one, taken with (probably) full understanding of the impact it has on product quality.
I don't doubt that everyone at the company would prefer to have a bug free and perfect game. Nobody deliberately wants to ship a buggy product. But what is acceptable and not acceptable is a choice people at the company make. To suggest that the team handling the game which accounts for 1/5th of the company's revenues, cannot get approval for additional testers if they wanted to is hard to believe. One of the few reasons they wouldn't get that approval is if that hire cannot drive additional engagement or revenues.
I'm aware of how business work. But what you're describing isn't "funds" to move around nor is it what the person I quoted is talking about. You're talking about headcount, they're talking about funds to put towards more research or buy this new software or whatever.
You're talking about whether they are at the headcount that's desired for that game. Bringing on a new tester isn't going to be something that will fix any issues the game has. We've had this discussion many times on the forums. Unless they had hundreds of testers running the game constantly on every mobile device under all the circumstances a bug can happen, you'll never have a bug free game.
Even still, hiring more testers won't solve why I don't encounter a bug you encounter. I have 1/10th the input issues many people complain about and haven't seen half the bugs others complain about. I have a Pixel 6 Pro. I don't have the best phone in the world so what causes me to have a better game experience than you? How would hiring a tester find that solution faster?
This is a main reason why much of why the community acts more like testers than anything. We're compensated with a game we don't have to pay to play. Do me a favor and look up Star Citizen. That game costs a ton to get started in and for as long as the game has been around it's only in Alpha. Hasn't even reached Beta. Everyone that plays is essence a tester. This game has made over 800 million in it's lifetime if not more and is one of the buggiest games I've EVER played in my entire life. They have a spaceship that costs over $1000 to buy and you're barely guaranteed a chance to play issue free. They have people that pledged hundreds of dollars years ago for ships that still haven't made it to the game.
Their studio isnt much smaller than Kabam either. But it is one of the most visually stunning and interactive games Ive ever played.
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
Every reasonably sized company works with a concept of a budget. In most companies every department has a budget. Every company has people coming in and leaving, in turn that company makes decisions on which vacancies to fill and which job profiles to expand on.
It is fairly simple, there either aren't enough devs or they aren't spending enough time on testing. Both those issues can be sorted by expanding headcount so that the company has more testing capacity. That decision can be taken at the discretion of the company. The decision to not add more testing capacity is a conscious one, taken with (probably) full understanding of the impact it has on product quality.
I don't doubt that everyone at the company would prefer to have a bug free and perfect game. Nobody deliberately wants to ship a buggy product. But what is acceptable and not acceptable is a choice people at the company make. To suggest that the team handling the game which accounts for 1/5th of the company's revenues, cannot get approval for additional testers if they wanted to is hard to believe. One of the few reasons they wouldn't get that approval is if that hire cannot drive additional engagement or revenues.
I'm aware of how business work. But what you're describing isn't "funds" to move around nor is it what the person I quoted is talking about. You're talking about headcount, they're talking about funds to put towards more research or buy this new software or whatever.
You're talking about whether they are at the headcount that's desired for that game. Bringing on a new tester isn't going to be something that will fix any issues the game has. We've had this discussion many times on the forums. Unless they had hundreds of testers running the game constantly on every mobile device under all the circumstances a bug can happen, you'll never have a bug free game.
Even still, hiring more testers won't solve why I don't encounter a bug you encounter. I have 1/10th the input issues many people complain about and haven't seen half the bugs others complain about. I have a Pixel 6 Pro. I don't have the best phone in the world so what causes me to have a better game experience than you? How would hiring a tester find that solution faster?
This is a main reason why much of why the community acts more like testers than anything. We're compensated with a game we don't have to pay to play. Do me a favor and look up Star Citizen. That game costs a ton to get started in and for as long as the game has been around it's only in Alpha. Hasn't even reached Beta. Everyone that plays is essence a tester. This game has made over 800 million in it's lifetime if not more and is one of the buggiest games I've EVER played in my entire life. They have a spaceship that costs over $1000 to buy and you're barely guaranteed a chance to play issue free. They have people that pledged hundreds of dollars years ago for ships that still haven't made it to the game.
Their studio isnt much smaller than Kabam either. But it is one of the most visually stunning and interactive games Ive ever played.
There is a big gap between bug-free and a black screen when fighting this month's featured champ. More testers would have definitely improved the chances of catching that bug (and probably others over the past seasons). It's a trade-off the company is ok with making, because the cost does not justify the improved game experience.
The company optimises for the lowest cost service that can be provided without revenue loss. You cannot be surprised that some people do not like that approach. That doesn't change based on who is in charge Netmarble or Kabam.
Neither does it mean that there are no funds available to improve experience. It just means that the team either did not consider the investment, or considered it and deemed that the incremental value to them from doing so did not justify the cost.
With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
To answer this, no, they just have all the stores stop making mclflurrys until the government catches wind of a meme regarding the ice cream machine never working and starts an investigation
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
Every reasonably sized company works with a concept of a budget. In most companies every department has a budget. Every company has people coming in and leaving, in turn that company makes decisions on which vacancies to fill and which job profiles to expand on.
It is fairly simple, there either aren't enough devs or they aren't spending enough time on testing. Both those issues can be sorted by expanding headcount so that the company has more testing capacity. That decision can be taken at the discretion of the company. The decision to not add more testing capacity is a conscious one, taken with (probably) full understanding of the impact it has on product quality.
I don't doubt that everyone at the company would prefer to have a bug free and perfect game. Nobody deliberately wants to ship a buggy product. But what is acceptable and not acceptable is a choice people at the company make. To suggest that the team handling the game which accounts for 1/5th of the company's revenues, cannot get approval for additional testers if they wanted to is hard to believe. One of the few reasons they wouldn't get that approval is if that hire cannot drive additional engagement or revenues.
I'm aware of how business work. But what you're describing isn't "funds" to move around nor is it what the person I quoted is talking about. You're talking about headcount, they're talking about funds to put towards more research or buy this new software or whatever.
You're talking about whether they are at the headcount that's desired for that game. Bringing on a new tester isn't going to be something that will fix any issues the game has. We've had this discussion many times on the forums. Unless they had hundreds of testers running the game constantly on every mobile device under all the circumstances a bug can happen, you'll never have a bug free game.
Even still, hiring more testers won't solve why I don't encounter a bug you encounter. I have 1/10th the input issues many people complain about and haven't seen half the bugs others complain about. I have a Pixel 6 Pro. I don't have the best phone in the world so what causes me to have a better game experience than you? How would hiring a tester find that solution faster?
This is a main reason why much of why the community acts more like testers than anything. We're compensated with a game we don't have to pay to play. Do me a favor and look up Star Citizen. That game costs a ton to get started in and for as long as the game has been around it's only in Alpha. Hasn't even reached Beta. Everyone that plays is essence a tester. This game has made over 800 million in it's lifetime if not more and is one of the buggiest games I've EVER played in my entire life. They have a spaceship that costs over $1000 to buy and you're barely guaranteed a chance to play issue free. They have people that pledged hundreds of dollars years ago for ships that still haven't made it to the game.
Their studio isnt much smaller than Kabam either. But it is one of the most visually stunning and interactive games Ive ever played.
There is a big gap between bug-free and a black screen when fighting this month's featured champ. More testers would have definitely improved the chances of catching that bug (and probably others over the past seasons). It's a trade-off the company is ok with making, because the cost does not justify the improved game experience.
The company optimises for the lowest cost service that can be provided without revenue loss. You cannot be surprised that some people do not like that approach. That doesn't change based on who is in charge Netmarble or Kabam.
Neither does it mean that there are no funds available to improve experience. It just means that the team either did not consider the investment, or considered it and deemed that the incremental value to them from doing so did not justify the cost.
How do you know more testers would have caught it.or even probably caught it? Is every single player having that issue? I played incursions right when it released and fought Dust twice. No black screen. Again, I'm not trying to purposefully combative, but I don't understand how you're so confident it would have been found.
To your second point, that's just not true. Cost optimization would be that Kabam doesn't build their own game engine.
@DNA3000 please read my reply above. And also please quote a message from me where I said graphic designer should start coding?
I don’t know what resources you think Kabam can allocate to improving the game engine, that isn’t already working on the game engine. I’m assuming you mean shifting resources from other development efforts, because you said “OP has a point” and the OP’s one and only point was to shift dev resources from other areas like making new champs and releasing new content to fixing engine issues.
As to your experience, you work in an IT group that services multiple departments. The MCOC team doesn’t have people who justify their existence by working on other games until something important comes along. They are hired to work on one game only, and if there was a lot of spare resources sitting around waiting to be “reprioritized” they’d be gone, not looking for another department to bill their time to.
Also, congratulations working for one of the few industries hated more than the video games industry. I’m sure your company makes it a priority to change that perception by addressing the complaints from everyone on Earth. Have you considered taking the OP’s advice, maybe shut down completely for a few months and fix those issues?
OP didn't say to shift dev resources or just have people hanging out. The suggestion was to work on fixing bugs and then adding new champs and content to an environment with less bugs. I understood OP that this would be entirely planned out well in advance and not a kneejerk "shut 'er down". Why couldn't they put out an early July update and then not put out another update until mid-September? July's content, planned to carry the game through to the next update will still be there throughout July and August.
What is your suggestion to address the problems with existing bugged champs and content when you keep adding new champs and content? Legitimate question, not snark. When a new issue crops up that could affect the cash flow, does the team look at management and shrug because everyone that could work on a thing is already working on a thing? Why wouldn't they triage and address the most immediate concerns, look at how this could impact longer term business needs, and add more FTEs if they concluded that was it was justified?
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
Every reasonably sized company works with a concept of a budget. In most companies every department has a budget. Every company has people coming in and leaving, in turn that company makes decisions on which vacancies to fill and which job profiles to expand on.
It is fairly simple, there either aren't enough devs or they aren't spending enough time on testing. Both those issues can be sorted by expanding headcount so that the company has more testing capacity. That decision can be taken at the discretion of the company. The decision to not add more testing capacity is a conscious one, taken with (probably) full understanding of the impact it has on product quality.
I don't doubt that everyone at the company would prefer to have a bug free and perfect game. Nobody deliberately wants to ship a buggy product. But what is acceptable and not acceptable is a choice people at the company make. To suggest that the team handling the game which accounts for 1/5th of the company's revenues, cannot get approval for additional testers if they wanted to is hard to believe. One of the few reasons they wouldn't get that approval is if that hire cannot drive additional engagement or revenues.
I'm aware of how business work. But what you're describing isn't "funds" to move around nor is it what the person I quoted is talking about. You're talking about headcount, they're talking about funds to put towards more research or buy this new software or whatever.
You're talking about whether they are at the headcount that's desired for that game. Bringing on a new tester isn't going to be something that will fix any issues the game has. We've had this discussion many times on the forums. Unless they had hundreds of testers running the game constantly on every mobile device under all the circumstances a bug can happen, you'll never have a bug free game.
Even still, hiring more testers won't solve why I don't encounter a bug you encounter. I have 1/10th the input issues many people complain about and haven't seen half the bugs others complain about. I have a Pixel 6 Pro. I don't have the best phone in the world so what causes me to have a better game experience than you? How would hiring a tester find that solution faster?
This is a main reason why much of why the community acts more like testers than anything. We're compensated with a game we don't have to pay to play. Do me a favor and look up Star Citizen. That game costs a ton to get started in and for as long as the game has been around it's only in Alpha. Hasn't even reached Beta. Everyone that plays is essence a tester. This game has made over 800 million in it's lifetime if not more and is one of the buggiest games I've EVER played in my entire life. They have a spaceship that costs over $1000 to buy and you're barely guaranteed a chance to play issue free. They have people that pledged hundreds of dollars years ago for ships that still haven't made it to the game.
Their studio isnt much smaller than Kabam either. But it is one of the most visually stunning and interactive games Ive ever played.
There is a big gap between bug-free and a black screen when fighting this month's featured champ. More testers would have definitely improved the chances of catching that bug (and probably others over the past seasons). It's a trade-off the company is ok with making, because the cost does not justify the improved game experience.
The company optimises for the lowest cost service that can be provided without revenue loss. You cannot be surprised that some people do not like that approach. That doesn't change based on who is in charge Netmarble or Kabam.
Neither does it mean that there are no funds available to improve experience. It just means that the team either did not consider the investment, or considered it and deemed that the incremental value to them from doing so did not justify the cost.
How do you know more testers would have caught it.or even probably caught it? Is every single player having that issue? I played incursions right when it released and fought Dust twice. No black screen. Again, I'm not trying to purposefully combative, but I don't understand how you're so confident it would have been found.
To your second point, that's just not true. Cost optimization would be that Kabam doesn't build their own game engine.
I said more testers would improve the chance of catching the bug. For someone who regularly lectures people on probabilities and RNG, I thought you would understand that. If you believe that no amount of testing catches any bug then why have testing as a part of the QC process at all?
On the second point, it was probably a cost benefit analysis. There was a decision in favor because at some point they assumed that building their own game engine had a net positive value, after adjusting for costs. Cost in itself is never considered bad, decisions are made on the incremental profit that can be generated by incurring the cost.
OP to put it very simple for you, this is what would happen to our champions if they let people who's not qualified for the job to mess with the game's code: There's a reason they got different departments for a lot of stuff in the game
Comments
None of the people at Kabam work on the live version of the game. It's worked on in a development version of the game and sent as a file to overwrite the production version when an update is ready or if the game has to be patched.
There are things like visuals or missing items that can be fixed because they're server based but things like inputs or a.i will never be worked on for the live version. It makes everything OP says moot. None of it matters.
Edit: Small spelling error that was noticed by OP but can't formulate a response so they make a distraction.
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Edit: it is all my personal interpretation of OPs post so please don't bombard me saying that that's not what he is saying
Not jumping to random thoughts
But then the problem that arises is employees not being payed for the time they are not working
First, This is a live service game. Live service games live and die by their ability to continuously churn out content. Destiny 2, Overwatch 2, and Diablo 4 are all examples of other live service games. Destiny 2 is the most relevant comparison, as it too is an extremely old game with serious spaghetti code problems. Bungie could never say “alright y’all, no new content until we fix these bugs,” because the player base would just move to a different game and Destiny 2 would tank. The same is true here for Kabam, especially because spaghetti code induced problems would take many, many, many months to fix. Probably well over a year, as it would essentially require rebuilding the game from the bottom. And hiring additional people on for it wouldn’t solve that, as DNA pointed out, because they’d have to learn the existing system first.
Second, I have no idea why you think the art team/champion design team/quest team aren’t permanent employees. That’s just a baseless assumption. You’re asking for people (who had nothing to do with the problems) to lose their incomes. Yeah, I ain’t getting on board with that line of thinking.
Ultimately the idea of “shut it down until we can get a handle on it” just doesn’t make sense. It’s a bad idea.
We all know what OP is saying, it doesn't make the idea any less bad
The method suggested will surely lead to permanent employees losing their income and is not advisable
Maybe there is some alternative like taking the game down for 2-3 days and then doing bug fixes(or atleast identifying how big the problem is)
The old way of taking the game down for 1 day for scheduled maintenance and bug fix was also good
I am seeing that the idea May not be probably but I at least asked. If I'm wrong I'm wrong thank you for being respectful in your response
https://mcbroken.com/
As to your experience, you work in an IT group that services multiple departments. The MCOC team doesn’t have people who justify their existence by working on other games until something important comes along. They are hired to work on one game only, and if there was a lot of spare resources sitting around waiting to be “reprioritized” they’d be gone, not looking for another department to bill their time to.
Also, congratulations working for one of the few industries hated more than the video games industry. I’m sure your company makes it a priority to change that perception by addressing the complaints from everyone on Earth. Have you considered taking the OP’s advice, maybe shut down completely for a few months and fix those issues?
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
It is fairly simple, there either aren't enough devs or they aren't spending enough time on testing. Both those issues can be sorted by expanding headcount so that the company has more testing capacity. That decision can be taken at the discretion of the company. The decision to not add more testing capacity is a conscious one, taken with (probably) full understanding of the impact it has on product quality.
I don't doubt that everyone at the company would prefer to have a bug free and perfect game. Nobody deliberately wants to ship a buggy product. But what is acceptable and not acceptable is a choice people at the company make. To suggest that the team handling the game which accounts for 1/5th of the company's revenues, cannot get approval for additional testers if they wanted to is hard to believe. One of the few reasons they wouldn't get that approval is if that hire cannot drive additional engagement or revenues.
You're talking about whether they are at the headcount that's desired for that game. Bringing on a new tester isn't going to be something that will fix any issues the game has. We've had this discussion many times on the forums. Unless they had hundreds of testers running the game constantly on every mobile device under all the circumstances a bug can happen, you'll never have a bug free game.
Even still, hiring more testers won't solve why I don't encounter a bug you encounter. I have 1/10th the input issues many people complain about and haven't seen half the bugs others complain about. I have a Pixel 6 Pro. I don't have the best phone in the world so what causes me to have a better game experience than you? How would hiring a tester find that solution faster?
This is a main reason why much of why the community acts more like testers than anything. We're compensated with a game we don't have to pay to play. Do me a favor and look up Star Citizen. That game costs a ton to get started in and for as long as the game has been around it's only in Alpha. Hasn't even reached Beta. Everyone that plays is essence a tester. This game has made over 800 million in it's lifetime if not more and is one of the buggiest games I've EVER played in my entire life. They have a spaceship that costs over $1000 to buy and you're barely guaranteed a chance to play issue free. They have people that pledged hundreds of dollars years ago for ships that still haven't made it to the game.
Their studio isnt much smaller than Kabam either. But it is one of the most visually stunning and interactive games Ive ever played.
The company optimises for the lowest cost service that can be provided without revenue loss. You cannot be surprised that some people do not like that approach. That doesn't change based on who is in charge Netmarble or Kabam.
Neither does it mean that there are no funds available to improve experience. It just means that the team either did not consider the investment, or considered it and deemed that the incremental value to them from doing so did not justify the cost.
To your second point, that's just not true. Cost optimization would be that Kabam doesn't build their own game engine.
Why couldn't they put out an early July update and then not put out another update until mid-September? July's content, planned to carry the game through to the next update will still be there throughout July and August.
What is your suggestion to address the problems with existing bugged champs and content when you keep adding new champs and content? Legitimate question, not snark. When a new issue crops up that could affect the cash flow, does the team look at management and shrug because everyone that could work on a thing is already working on a thing? Why wouldn't they triage and address the most immediate concerns, look at how this could impact longer term business needs, and add more FTEs if they concluded that was it was justified?
On the second point, it was probably a cost benefit analysis. There was a decision in favor because at some point they assumed that building their own game engine had a net positive value, after adjusting for costs. Cost in itself is never considered bad, decisions are made on the incremental profit that can be generated by incurring the cost.
There's a reason they got different departments for a lot of stuff in the game