With the building bugs and stuff not working and just pure crappy content. Take a month off. Take a month of and do maintenance on all content. For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events. Fix one piece of content and make the new side event a test of that content and you have your plays show you where the problems are. And just keep rotating between bg, aw and aq, and fixing the AI, incursions, arena, and other content. This is a perfect chance to have a very minimal month event but still something we all can do, and gives you the chance to fully focus on fixing everything. This will greatly improve the quality of the game and people may actually like playing again.
Can I ask you a question? When the McFlury machine breaks at McDonald's, do they close the entire store and stop serving all food while someone fixes the machine?
Does the person working the fry station fix the machine if they aren't trained in that process?
This whole entire post has been asked and answered probably as much why spider man is evading venom. There's an entire team that's dedicated to fixing bugs. They also generally don't fix bugs on the live server and fix them on a copy of the game in a dev environment.
Educate yourself on these things before posting. Search to see if it's been brought up before. Don't use the forums search but use Google. It's faster and more accurate.
Bro IT doesn't work like McDonald's, resources are allotted depending on needs. OP has a point. I don't think OP is asking for a technician to start developing in Java to fix bugs. In IT everything is a project. Kabam has an issue with bugs and need to allot more resources and man power there.
BTW in McDonald's everyone is trained to do everything so they can replace each other when needed and depending on work load. And employees don't fix broken machines.
That's not how a game company works. The champion designers aren't trained/qualified to mess with all the back-end code. The quest designers and art team would be out of a job, and it would take just about just as long to fix everything if there was content still pushed out. This isn't a 1-month sprint and you're done. This also isn't an IT project that can be done within a month, but a software engineering project with an estimate of upwards to multiple years to complete. If they stopped releasing content until all the bugs were fixed, then the game will straight up die because most of the playerbase would have moved on with no content being released.
It might seem logical that many hands make light work, but too many cooks in the kitchen actually reduces productivity. Another fun model with software engineering is adding people to a project halfway through actually increases how long it will take because of the time it'll take for them to be trained and get used to the code and whatnot
What the OP is suggesting is taking the funds used for developing new content and using them for funding the team(to probably hire more people for some time) that fixes bugs
No, he isn't asking the person who designs champions to start solving bugs
Edit: it is all my personal interpretation of OPs post so please don't bombard me saying that that's not what he is saying
There are no "funds". Kabam is owned my Netmarble. They're paid normally and don't have "funds" to make better or worse content.
This is unnecessary obfuscation of a statement that is easy to interpret. There is a certain resource allocation to the game and the studio. There is also reasonable amount of discretion on how these resources are utilised. For all practical purposes that is not different from access to "funds".
It is a conscious choice to not invest adequately in testing and ownership is not an acceptable defense for that decision. Hiring and staffing decisions are made all the time in corporations, not everything goes through the CEO. That decision has been taken based on economic considerations and near term priorities, which suggest that the team does not think that more testing or a bug free product is going to get more users or revenues to justify the investment required.
How do you know that? What makes you think there's a fund instead of all the employees just being paid their salaries to do their work?
When we say "funded", we're saying that Netmarble pays Kabams employees. Testing isn't something that costs extra, as it's all done by the devs.
I can't think anything that would get discretionary funds that can be moved around to different parts of the studio.
If anyone is getting funds, it's probably going to the new King Arthur game.
Dude I meant resources I am no dictionary to remember every word Sometimes the word is on your tongue and you know what you want to use but just can't remember the word for your life
664.9 billion KRW (Korean Won) equates to $498,675,000 USD. Of that, Marvel Contest of Champions accounted for 12% of that revenue for the quarter:
12% of $498,675,000 USD is $59,841,000 USD. Sounds good? Welp....
That's -195 billion KRW ($146,250,000 USD) loss. Year over year they're better in '23 than '22, but it's wretched still.
So if your idea is to tell Netmarble "Hey, flush up to $19 million USD revenue over a month on your biggest revenue generator, just to add no discernable value, but most likely at an operating charge of $4-6 million above standard operating costs, cause War and AQ and stuff," they'll tell you "It made us $59 Million last quarter working the way it works, but it should be making more while costing less, so thank you for your note and we'll tighten the screws even more with those Kabam people. More with less!"
But hey, if you feel real strong about it, you can reach them here:
664.9 billion KRW (Korean Won) equates to $498,675,000 USD. Of that, Marvel Contest of Champions accounted for 12% of that revenue for the quarter:
12% of $498,675,000 USD is $59,841,000 USD. Sounds good? Welp....
That's -195 billion KRW ($146,250,000 USD) loss. Year over year they're better in '23 than '22, but it's wretched still.
So if your idea is to tell Netmarble "Hey, flush up to $19 million USD revenue over a month on your biggest revenue generator, just to add no discernable value, but most likely at an operating charge of $4-6 million above standard operating costs, cause War and AQ and stuff," they'll tell you "It made us $59 Million last quarter working the way it works, but it should be making more while costing less, so thank you for your note and we'll tighten the screws even more with those Kabam people. More with less!"
But hey, if you feel real strong about it, you can reach them here:
Then maybe the conversation can be like "Hey Netmarble, as you can see the community is not satisfied with the current state of our game and if it continues the revenue might drop, so maybe can you give us more money(yeah I ain't saying resources otherwise Demonzfyre will be behind me again) to invest in the team that spots and fixes bugs to maybe increase the headcount? This way we might be able to solve the community issues and everyone will be happy and we will get "profit"."
This is a moot conversation. Neither Kabam nor NetMarble will “take a month off” for many, many reasons. It is not a viable suggestion. We can let this one go.
@DNA3000 please read my reply above. And also please quote a message from me where I said graphic designer should start coding?
I don’t know what resources you think Kabam can allocate to improving the game engine, that isn’t already working on the game engine. I’m assuming you mean shifting resources from other development efforts, because you said “OP has a point” and the OP’s one and only point was to shift dev resources from other areas like making new champs and releasing new content to fixing engine issues.
As to your experience, you work in an IT group that services multiple departments. The MCOC team doesn’t have people who justify their existence by working on other games until something important comes along. They are hired to work on one game only, and if there was a lot of spare resources sitting around waiting to be “reprioritized” they’d be gone, not looking for another department to bill their time to.
Also, congratulations working for one of the few industries hated more than the video games industry. I’m sure your company makes it a priority to change that perception by addressing the complaints from everyone on Earth. Have you considered taking the OP’s advice, maybe shut down completely for a few months and fix those issues?
OP didn't say to shift dev resources or just have people hanging out. The suggestion was to work on fixing bugs and then adding new champs and content to an environment with less bugs. I understood OP that this would be entirely planned out well in advance and not a kneejerk "shut 'er down".
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
What is your suggestion to address the problems with existing bugged champs and content when you keep adding new champs and content? Legitimate question, not snark. When a new issue crops up that could affect the cash flow, does the team look at management and shrug because everyone that could work on a thing is already working on a thing? Why wouldn't they triage and address the most immediate concerns, look at how this could impact longer term business needs, and add more FTEs if they concluded that was it was justified?
Every company has issues. I’ve lived several full careers out of fixing them. The company you work for almost certainly has dissatisfied customers or clients. Why aren’t they hiring more FTEs to solve those problems? What’s your alternate solution to those issues?
That’s a rhetorical question, although if you want to take a swing at them, by all means. There’s no such thing as a general solution to “people not happy” problems. There are only specific solutions to specific problems. When Kabam contracts with me to solve them, that’s when I’ll be formulating specific solutions to those problems one at a time.
The problem is not hiring people. The problem is finding the right people. The right people at the right time can solve problems. The wrong people every other time tend to create them. How many a unity experts are just out there floating around? Not the ones padding their resume with Unity BS. Actual Unity experts that just happen to not have jobs? How many understand game engine programming? How many can learn a whole new unique system in a couple weeks or months? Everybody seems to think they grow on trees, or that any kid out of any BS CS program can just do this programming thing.
Personally, I’ve seen more pictures of Bigfoot
There are certainly things Kabam could do better. But they can try to do them better, or they can have even more people do it just as badly, only faster.
664.9 billion KRW (Korean Won) equates to $498,675,000 USD. Of that, Marvel Contest of Champions accounted for 12% of that revenue for the quarter:
12% of $498,675,000 USD is $59,841,000 USD. Sounds good? Welp....
That's -195 billion KRW ($146,250,000 USD) loss. Year over year they're better in '23 than '22, but it's wretched still.
So if your idea is to tell Netmarble "Hey, flush up to $19 million USD revenue over a month on your biggest revenue generator, just to add no discernable value, but most likely at an operating charge of $4-6 million above standard operating costs, cause War and AQ and stuff," they'll tell you "It made us $59 Million last quarter working the way it works, but it should be making more while costing less, so thank you for your note and we'll tighten the screws even more with those Kabam people. More with less!"
But hey, if you feel real strong about it, you can reach them here:
Then maybe the conversation can be like "Hey Netmarble, as you can see the community is not satisfied with the current state of our game and if it continues the revenue might drop, so maybe can you give us more money(yeah I ain't saying resources otherwise Demonzfyre will be behind me again) to invest in the team that spots and fixes bugs to maybe increase the headcount? This way we might be able to solve the community issues and everyone will be happy and we will get "profit"."
This convesation would need to be backed with facts, analysis and statistics. Probably none of those would show correlation between profits and bugs/issues. So I fear the short answer to this conversation would be "No, but thanks for speaking out." from Netmarble.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Well I get the spirit of the OP's sentiment. The frustration that new content comes out while it seems serious bugs are ignored, and oftentimes the new content comes out with new and improved faster acting bugs which seem to spread to other parts of the game.
What it feels like often is the "I don't always test my code, but when I do it's in production" joke that runs throughout the industry as a whole.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
What? Where'd that come from? Are you OK?
The last paragraph in your comment I quoted.
I didn't say anything about firing anyone. I said that if they needed additional expertise, they've had plenty of time to get it. If they have needed to put additional resources towards bugs and aren't getting them, they haven't presented it in a way that will convince their decision makers. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. They might have absolute rock stars but they're hampered by unfamiliar tools, ineffective work infrastructure, inefficient process flows, etc., etc.
@DNA3000 please read my reply above. And also please quote a message from me where I said graphic designer should start coding?
I don’t know what resources you think Kabam can allocate to improving the game engine, that isn’t already working on the game engine. I’m assuming you mean shifting resources from other development efforts, because you said “OP has a point” and the OP’s one and only point was to shift dev resources from other areas like making new champs and releasing new content to fixing engine issues.
As to your experience, you work in an IT group that services multiple departments. The MCOC team doesn’t have people who justify their existence by working on other games until something important comes along. They are hired to work on one game only, and if there was a lot of spare resources sitting around waiting to be “reprioritized” they’d be gone, not looking for another department to bill their time to.
Also, congratulations working for one of the few industries hated more than the video games industry. I’m sure your company makes it a priority to change that perception by addressing the complaints from everyone on Earth. Have you considered taking the OP’s advice, maybe shut down completely for a few months and fix those issues?
OP didn't say to shift dev resources or just have people hanging out. The suggestion was to work on fixing bugs and then adding new champs and content to an environment with less bugs. I understood OP that this would be entirely planned out well in advance and not a kneejerk "shut 'er down".
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
What is your suggestion to address the problems with existing bugged champs and content when you keep adding new champs and content? Legitimate question, not snark. When a new issue crops up that could affect the cash flow, does the team look at management and shrug because everyone that could work on a thing is already working on a thing? Why wouldn't they triage and address the most immediate concerns, look at how this could impact longer term business needs, and add more FTEs if they concluded that was it was justified?
Every company has issues. I’ve lived several full careers out of fixing them. The company you work for almost certainly has dissatisfied customers or clients. Why aren’t they hiring more FTEs to solve those problems? What’s your alternate solution to those issues?
That’s a rhetorical question, although if you want to take a swing at them, by all means. There’s no such thing as a general solution to “people not happy” problems. There are only specific solutions to specific problems. When Kabam contracts with me to solve them, that’s when I’ll be formulating specific solutions to those problems one at a time.
The problem is not hiring people. The problem is finding the right people. The right people at the right time can solve problems. The wrong people every other time tend to create them. How many a unity experts are just out there floating around? Not the ones padding their resume with Unity BS. Actual Unity experts that just happen to not have jobs? How many understand game engine programming? How many can learn a whole new unique system in a couple weeks or months? Everybody seems to think they grow on trees, or that any kid out of any BS CS program can just do this programming thing.
Personally, I’ve seen more pictures of Bigfoot
There are certainly things Kabam could do better. But they can try to do them better, or they can have even more people do it just as badly, only faster.
At no point did I say shut the game down I suggested taking a break from monthly eq. Make a basic side question and work on the most prevalent bugs
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
Where is the attack?
They never back up their credentials or provide constructive feedback. If you say it's raining they will ask for your meteorological degree and Phd thesis before claiming that they heard that there is no water on Mars, so it can't be raining anywhere.
No one claimed everyone should be fired or any of the other extreme comments attributed by this person. Most people post here with what they consider is a good option for the average user experience to be better. Granted not all of those suggestions are well thought out, practical or even useful. There is a way to engage in those discussion, this is definitely not it.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
Where is the attack?
They never back up their credentials or provide constructive feedback. If you say it's raining they will ask for your meteorological degree and Phd thesis before claiming that they heard that there is no water on Mars, so it can't be raining anywhere.
No one claimed everyone should be fired or any of the other extreme comments attributed by this person. Most people post here with what they consider is a good option for the average user experience to be better. Granted not all of those suggestions are well thought out, practical or even useful. There is a way to engage in those discussion, this is definitely not it.
I've provided plenty of constructive feedback here.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
Where is the attack?
They never back up their credentials or provide constructive feedback. If you say it's raining they will ask for your meteorological degree and Phd thesis before claiming that they heard that there is no water on Mars, so it can't be raining anywhere.
No one claimed everyone should be fired or any of the other extreme comments attributed by this person. Most people post here with what they consider is a good option for the average user experience to be better. Granted not all of those suggestions are well thought out, practical or even useful. There is a way to engage in those discussion, this is definitely not it.
I understand what you're saying however that doesn't answer my question or support the claim of an attack being executed
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
No one said any of that. Making stuff up doesn't strengthen an argument. If someone said (and no one did), "I can make a better game than this!" (again, no one said that), you might have a very weak point. It should be taken just as seriously as a football fan saying, "How'd he drop that? I could've caught that pass!"
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
That’s not what is being said. Spaghetti code isn’t an insult to the game, it’s something that happens to live service games that have been running for a very long time. Consistent, frequent updates creating new mechanics and interactions, all building on each other is an incredibly difficult balancing act to maintain. It inevitably results in a system where a change to one area can have unexpected knock on effects in entirely unrelated aspects of the game.
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent, it’s just the nature of the beast for long-running live service games.
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent.
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
Where is the attack?
They never back up their credentials or provide constructive feedback. If you say it's raining they will ask for your meteorological degree and Phd thesis before claiming that they heard that there is no water on Mars, so it can't be raining anywhere.
No one claimed everyone should be fired or any of the other extreme comments attributed by this person. Most people post here with what they consider is a good option for the average user experience to be better. Granted not all of those suggestions are well thought out, practical or even useful. There is a way to engage in those discussion, this is definitely not it.
I've provided plenty of constructive feedback here.
To quote DNA, who put it better than I ever could, I'm not responding to the ideas in your own head, but the ones you are actually writing.
So far, you have tried to derail the discussion by
(i) suggesting that anyone unhappy with the game experience is trying to get the game team fired; (ii) claiming there is no point in testing before releasing new content; (iii) random insertion of who owns the game; (iv) pedantic responses to suggestions that the game could benefit from investment in certain areas; (e.g. "funds) (v) demanding proof of potential future outcomes (e.g. how do you know x can help in y...) (vi) personal attacks demanding credentials
Which of these were meant to be constructive?
It is possible you understand businesses, coding, game design all better than anyone else here. Maybe, you have amazing ideas which can improve the game experience while also improving its fortunes. You say you don't want to be combative, but I have rarely seen you being accommodative let alone insightful. The discussion itself may not be worth pursuing but your reactions do not help anyone.
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
That’s not what is being said. Spaghetti code isn’t an insult to the game, it’s something that happens to live service games that have been running for a very long time. Consistent, frequent updates creating new mechanics and interactions, all building on each other is an incredibly difficult balancing act to maintain. It inevitably results in a system where a change to one area can have unexpected knock on effects in entirely unrelated aspects of the game.
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent, it’s just the nature of the beast for long-running live service games.
No one is talking about the spaghetti code; some people are trying to tell a multi million dollar company how to run their show halting all departments to fix bugs based on their vast knowledge. I would assume all those people run multi million dollar gaming companies... I mean since they know so much better... Its easy to just sit on the couch and criticize from home on their own free time before going to work to flip burgers...
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent.
Lol okay, you caught me. It’s not necessarily because they’re incompetent
You’re responding to the ideas in your own head, not the ones the OP is actually writing. The OP literally said to shut the game down to work on fixing bugs. And he didn’t just say that in a quippy title, he doubled and then tripled down on the idea by actually articulating details in the post. And I quote: “For that month you could have Forge be the new champ. You don't even need to release Forge just have him as the story teller and the whole month is just side events.”
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there. A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
So the existence of bugs means they suck and everyone should be fired? Who would ever stay employed longer than a few weeks?
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
Attacking people again I see. Serious question what do you get out of acting the way you do?
Where is the attack?
They never back up their credentials or provide constructive feedback. If you say it's raining they will ask for your meteorological degree and Phd thesis before claiming that they heard that there is no water on Mars, so it can't be raining anywhere.
No one claimed everyone should be fired or any of the other extreme comments attributed by this person. Most people post here with what they consider is a good option for the average user experience to be better. Granted not all of those suggestions are well thought out, practical or even useful. There is a way to engage in those discussion, this is definitely not it.
I've provided plenty of constructive feedback here.
To quote DNA, who put it better than I ever could, I'm not responding to the ideas in your own head, but the ones you are actually writing.
So far, you have tried to derail the discussion by
(i) suggesting that anyone unhappy with the game experience is trying to get the game team fired; (ii) claiming there is no point in testing before releasing new content; (iii) random insertion of who owns the game; (iv) pedantic responses to suggestions that the game could benefit from investment in certain areas; (e.g. "funds) (v) demanding proof of potential future outcomes (e.g. how do you know x can help in y...) (vi) personal attacks demanding credentials
Which of these were meant to be constructive?
It is possible you understand businesses, coding, game design all better than anyone else here. Maybe, you have amazing ideas which can improve the game experience while also improving its fortunes. You say you don't want to be combative, but I have rarely seen you being accommodative let alone insightful. The discussion itself may not be worth pursuing but your reactions do not help anyone.
1. That's not what I said at all. Not even close. I was responding to this comment- My response is to tat the very existence of bugs means someones not doing a good enough job. Sure, saying they should be fired is a stretch on my part but the accusation that because a game has bugs means decisions weren't made properly or resources allocated correctly. I asked for what experience a person has in a field because they are speaking confidently enough about a topic that maybe they have tons of experience in that field, like DNA, and know that's how a company like Kabam operates.
2. I never claimed there isn't any point to testing. You cannot find me saying that ANYWHERE in this post. Kabam already tests. My counterpoint is adding a few testers isn't going to have the impact that you or others thinks it will. I gave the example that on my phone, a Pixel 6 pro, I am not getting the black screen when fighting Dust. I fought her in incursions and did not experience that bug even though others do. So again, my point is, how many testers exactly would be enough? If they hired 5 more "testers" but bugs like this still came around, then what? What if they hired 20 and bugs were still passed to the live version of the game? How many testers do you think is adequate? There's some 300-500 devices that are able to run the game. Should they hire someone to test the game on every single device that can successfully play the game?
3. What?
4. So because another member here used the word funds, and I responded to that use of the word in the supposed intention that it looked like in their comments, it's pedantic? Explaining that it's not exactly how that business is run is now against the rules? They later come around and say they used the wrong word but I'm the bad guy? I didn't insult anyone. I am using the words they put out and responding in kind.
5. Others are doing the same by claiming more "testers" would find bugs. Again, rules for me but not for thee.
6. I didn't demand credentials. I asked a question. I am truly sorry hurting your feelings with such a hard hitting, deeply hurtful question. If you'd like me to pay for therapy because of the results of being asked if you have experience in game development, IT, programming or such, I'll gladly pay for it.
Thanks for cherry picking everything I've said. You don't like me and it's fine. I get it. It's whatever.
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
That’s not what is being said. Spaghetti code isn’t an insult to the game, it’s something that happens to live service games that have been running for a very long time. Consistent, frequent updates creating new mechanics and interactions, all building on each other is an incredibly difficult balancing act to maintain. It inevitably results in a system where a change to one area can have unexpected knock on effects in entirely unrelated aspects of the game.
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent, it’s just the nature of the beast for long-running live service games.
No one is talking about the spaghetti code; some people are trying to tell a multi million dollar company how to run their show halting all departments to fix bugs based on their vast knowledge. I would assume all those people run multi million dollar gaming companies... I mean since they know so much better... Its easy to just sit on the couch and criticize from home on their own free time before going to work to flip burgers...
Again. No one said to do that. Aside from that, multi-million dollar companies always know best? Realm of Champions? Crystal Pepsi? New Coke? Quibi?
Wow so serious about this issue... And I love the ammount of people saying their code is **** and how much better it could be... To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
That’s not what is being said. Spaghetti code isn’t an insult to the game, it’s something that happens to live service games that have been running for a very long time. Consistent, frequent updates creating new mechanics and interactions, all building on each other is an incredibly difficult balancing act to maintain. It inevitably results in a system where a change to one area can have unexpected knock on effects in entirely unrelated aspects of the game.
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent, it’s just the nature of the beast for long-running live service games.
No one is talking about the spaghetti code; some people are trying to tell a multi million dollar company how to run their show halting all departments to fix bugs based on their vast knowledge. I would assume all those people run multi million dollar gaming companies... I mean since they know so much better... Its easy to just sit on the couch and criticize from home on their own free time before going to work to flip burgers...
Again. No one said to do that. Aside from that, multi-million dollar companies always know best? Realm of Champions? Crystal Pepsi? New Coke? Quibi?
They know better than someone giving opinions from a couch?.... This is not Jeff Bezos having a conversation with Bill Gates, lol its an average joe who works a 9-5 telling a company how to deal with their issues. Also what a horrible set of examples... Did they stop making their original product and replace it with those new items they tried to sell? Lol...see another average joe thinking he knows better... OP said to stop everything.. leave it as side content... So someone said something ...
Comments
I am no dictionary to remember every word
Sometimes the word is on your tongue and you know what you want to use but just can't remember the word for your life
I'm really sorry for saying "funds"
Here's Netmarble's latest financial report, 2023 Q4 (that's Oct-Dec 2023):
664.9 billion KRW (Korean Won) equates to $498,675,000 USD. Of that, Marvel Contest of Champions accounted for 12% of that revenue for the quarter:
12% of $498,675,000 USD is $59,841,000 USD. Sounds good? Welp....
That's -195 billion KRW ($146,250,000 USD) loss. Year over year they're better in '23 than '22, but it's wretched still.
So if your idea is to tell Netmarble "Hey, flush up to $19 million USD revenue over a month on your biggest revenue generator, just to add no discernable value, but most likely at an operating charge of $4-6 million above standard operating costs, cause War and AQ and stuff," they'll tell you "It made us $59 Million last quarter working the way it works, but it should be making more while costing less, so thank you for your note and we'll tighten the screws even more with those Kabam people. More with less!"
But hey, if you feel real strong about it, you can reach them here:
https://company.netmarble.com/en/company/contactUs
"Hey Netmarble, as you can see the community is not satisfied with the current state of our game and if it continues the revenue might drop, so maybe can you give us more money(yeah I ain't saying resources otherwise Demonzfyre will be behind me again) to invest in the team that spots and fixes bugs to maybe increase the headcount? This way we might be able to solve the community issues and everyone will be happy and we will get "profit"."
Every company has issues. I’ve lived several full careers out of fixing them. The company you work for almost certainly has dissatisfied customers or clients. Why aren’t they hiring more FTEs to solve those problems? What’s your alternate solution to those issues?That’s a rhetorical question, although if you want to take a swing at them, by all means. There’s no such thing as a general solution to “people not happy” problems. There are only specific solutions to specific problems. When Kabam contracts with me to solve them, that’s when I’ll be formulating specific solutions to those problems one at a time.
The problem is not hiring people. The problem is finding the right people. The right people at the right time can solve problems. The wrong people every other time tend to create them. How many a unity experts are just out there floating around? Not the ones padding their resume with Unity BS. Actual Unity experts that just happen to not have jobs? How many understand game engine programming? How many can learn a whole new unique system in a couple weeks or months? Everybody seems to think they grow on trees, or that any kid out of any
BSCS program can just do this programming thing.Personally, I’ve seen more pictures of Bigfoot
There are certainly things Kabam could do better. But they can try to do them better, or they can have even more people do it just as badly, only faster.
If the game is shut down, there wouldn't be a need for Forge and the side events wouldn't be there.
A month full of side events hosted by a new champ is very clearly not equivalent to turning off or shutting down the game, which is apparently how almost everyone else took it. "Take a month off" (from adding new stuff) and then OP went into details that are definitely not turning off the game entirely. Shutting the game down entirely for a month like with a "Back in a month" sign is such a nonstarter of a nonsense idea that I would assume a person didn't mean that.
The game isn't suddenly buggy. It's been buggy for years. Definitely long enough for them to have hired away, contracted, or groomed internally some additional expertise if that was what they needed. If they aren't doing enough of that to make a difference, my assumption is that they haven't done a good enough job of justifying the expense to their decision makers.
Serious question... Is this your field of expertise? You have first hand knowledge of the inner workings of a game development studio? Have you worked on any titles? Spent time in and related positions with a company similar to Kabam? I just ask because you're pretty confident in what you're saying.
What it feels like often is the "I don't always test my code, but when I do it's in production" joke that runs throughout the industry as a whole.
No one claimed everyone should be fired or any of the other extreme comments attributed by this person. Most people post here with what they consider is a good option for the average user experience to be better. Granted not all of those suggestions are well thought out, practical or even useful. There is a way to engage in those discussion, this is definitely not it.
To those code geniuses.. can you guys provide a link to your multi million dollar games? I would love to play the bugless games you wrote...
Destiny 2 is a good example of a game that experiences similar problems. It’s not because any of the people involved are incompetent, it’s just the nature of the beast for long-running live service games.
So far, you have tried to derail the discussion by
(i) suggesting that anyone unhappy with the game experience is trying to get the game team fired;
(ii) claiming there is no point in testing before releasing new content;
(iii) random insertion of who owns the game;
(iv) pedantic responses to suggestions that the game could benefit from investment in certain areas; (e.g. "funds)
(v) demanding proof of potential future outcomes (e.g. how do you know x can help in y...)
(vi) personal attacks demanding credentials
Which of these were meant to be constructive?
It is possible you understand businesses, coding, game design all better than anyone else here. Maybe, you have amazing ideas which can improve the game experience while also improving its fortunes. You say you don't want to be combative, but I have rarely seen you being accommodative let alone insightful. The discussion itself may not be worth pursuing but your reactions do not help anyone.
Its easy to just sit on the couch and criticize from home on their own free time before going to work to flip burgers...
My response is to tat the very existence of bugs means someones not doing a good enough job. Sure, saying they should be fired is a stretch on my part but the accusation that because a game has bugs means decisions weren't made properly or resources allocated correctly. I asked for what experience a person has in a field because they are speaking confidently enough about a topic that maybe they have tons of experience in that field, like DNA, and know that's how a company like Kabam operates.
2. I never claimed there isn't any point to testing. You cannot find me saying that ANYWHERE in this post. Kabam already tests. My counterpoint is adding a few testers isn't going to have the impact that you or others thinks it will. I gave the example that on my phone, a Pixel 6 pro, I am not getting the black screen when fighting Dust. I fought her in incursions and did not experience that bug even though others do. So again, my point is, how many testers exactly would be enough? If they hired 5 more "testers" but bugs like this still came around, then what? What if they hired 20 and bugs were still passed to the live version of the game? How many testers do you think is adequate? There's some 300-500 devices that are able to run the game. Should they hire someone to test the game on every single device that can successfully play the game?
3. What?
4. So because another member here used the word funds, and I responded to that use of the word in the supposed intention that it looked like in their comments, it's pedantic? Explaining that it's not exactly how that business is run is now against the rules? They later come around and say they used the wrong word but I'm the bad guy? I didn't insult anyone. I am using the words they put out and responding in kind.
5. Others are doing the same by claiming more "testers" would find bugs. Again, rules for me but not for thee.
6. I didn't demand credentials. I asked a question. I am truly sorry hurting your feelings with such a hard hitting, deeply hurtful question. If you'd like me to pay for therapy because of the results of being asked if you have experience in game development, IT, programming or such, I'll gladly pay for it.
Thanks for cherry picking everything I've said. You don't like me and it's fine. I get it. It's whatever.
This is not Jeff Bezos having a conversation with Bill Gates, lol its an average joe who works a 9-5 telling a company how to deal with their issues.
Also what a horrible set of examples...
Did they stop making their original product and replace it with those new items they tried to sell? Lol...see another average joe thinking he knows better...
OP said to stop everything.. leave it as side content... So someone said something ...
Only warning.