What happened to class advantages?

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Comments

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★

    I don’t get what’s going on with champions that counter their disadvantage. Why are cosmics immune to fate seal, nullify and power steal? No techs do any of that(except one vision). Now there’s destroyer who is immune to slow… he should be HURT by slow like everyone else. Serpent who probably counters mystic more than tech. He stops unstoppable.. but tech doesn’t go unstoppable! Directly counters juggernaut. Kabam is more and more making all my favorite champions useless.

    The fact that 34 people agreed with this is crazy. Your post is about Class advantage and you come out with cosmic and tech and saying no techs have those abilities. Which you're wrong, there are several that do.

    Cosmics are being given those abilities to counter Mystics while on defense or if having to fight a mystic defender.

    I don't understand why Destroyer "HAS" to be hurt by slow. There are already other champs who aren't affected by slow. Ultron and Silk reduces it's duration by 90%

    Furthermore, these abilities aren't always meant to counter the opposite class. They're abilities to counter other abilities in the game. Literally anyone with the parry mastery can counter juggs, no matter the class.

    Again, I find it crazy 34 people agreed with you.
    If destroyer has a feature involving slow it should be a disadvantage. you know, because it’s a debuff. Mystics used to be hurt by debuffs. I think 34 people are tired of their rank ups falling to uselessness. Have you forgotten what a class advantage means? Yeah you aren’t supposed to counter that
    Having Class Advantage has never meant they can't have abilities be countered or counter other abilities. Class Advantage has ALWAYS been an increase in health and attack. There isn't any other stipulation that's attached to class advantage.

    What do you mean mystics used to be hurt by debuffs? Are you saying they aren't now? I can't go fight Destroyer right now with Black Widow Deadly Origin and apply shocks? He's also armor break immune so why is it you're complaining about Slow?

    Why can't you counter that? It already exists with Ultron.

    I truly don't think you know what you're talking about at all. Nothing you've said makes any sense.
    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game. The one and only time an opponent should counter your advantage is in a boss node and it would be challenging no matter who you had. But now they wired it into the champions base kit so it’s overkill.

    Also I was saying they should be in their kit to be especially hurt by debuffs. Meaning certain debuffs will shut them down like how doom works.

    At the rate they’re going, champions like scorpion and fury will be as useful as doom is but I guess that’s what you people want.
    Homie.. science champions apply debuffs to every class. Mystics aren't specifically anymore hurt by bleed than a cosmic champion. All classes have champions with buffs.

    Class advantage was introduced into the game because it gave the attacked a increase in heath and attack. That's all class advantage does.

    You're not talking about class advantage, you're talking about counters to abilities. Mystics typically have buff control which can be used against any champion who has buffs, including science.

    They've been countering abilities longer than class advantage has been in the game. You truly don't know what you're talking about.
    There’s still supposed to be an advantage besides health increase. Dude I am not talking about all debuffs. This is seriously not hard to comprehend. I am talking about mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs, doom for example. Some mystics actually are just hurt by any debuffs, dragon man and juggernaut.
    I truly don't know what you mean by "mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs". Which mystic and which debuffs? What debuffs is Doom more vulnerable to than other mystics?

    The advantage you're talking about is ability counters. Most mystics are more vulnerable to energy damage. Cosmic champs tend to have a lot of buffs so mystics counter them but that vulnerability isn't limited to mystics. Venom is a great matchup for buff heavy champs because he can nullify them off sp1.

    Again, for the 3rd or 4th time, it's not class advantage that you're talking about. It's ability countering.
  • CyborgNinja135CyborgNinja135 Member Posts: 1,120 ★★★★

    There are over 270 champions in the game. They can't all be from the same cookie cutter, and having a few exceptions that bend the class wheel a bit (or like Karnak started, are maybe multiple classes) is fine. There are a number of champions that one release players have questioned why they are of class X and not Y... and their abilities should reflect how they kind of are both.

    That said, exceptions should not become rules... and should be novelties. We can't treat it as a marketing exercise, and just because Magneto did well, make 30 more that break the rules.

    There’s a debuff immunity node, soon enough it’ll just be added to someone’s kit
    Taskmaster already has that ability
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 5,954 ★★★★★

    I don’t get what’s going on with champions that counter their disadvantage. Why are cosmics immune to fate seal, nullify and power steal? No techs do any of that(except one vision). Now there’s destroyer who is immune to slow… he should be HURT by slow like everyone else. Serpent who probably counters mystic more than tech. He stops unstoppable.. but tech doesn’t go unstoppable! Directly counters juggernaut. Kabam is more and more making all my favorite champions useless.

    The fact that 34 people agreed with this is crazy. Your post is about Class advantage and you come out with cosmic and tech and saying no techs have those abilities. Which you're wrong, there are several that do.

    Cosmics are being given those abilities to counter Mystics while on defense or if having to fight a mystic defender.

    I don't understand why Destroyer "HAS" to be hurt by slow. There are already other champs who aren't affected by slow. Ultron and Silk reduces it's duration by 90%

    Furthermore, these abilities aren't always meant to counter the opposite class. They're abilities to counter other abilities in the game. Literally anyone with the parry mastery can counter juggs, no matter the class.

    Again, I find it crazy 34 people agreed with you.
    If destroyer has a feature involving slow it should be a disadvantage. you know, because it’s a debuff. Mystics used to be hurt by debuffs. I think 34 people are tired of their rank ups falling to uselessness. Have you forgotten what a class advantage means? Yeah you aren’t supposed to counter that
    Having Class Advantage has never meant they can't have abilities be countered or counter other abilities. Class Advantage has ALWAYS been an increase in health and attack. There isn't any other stipulation that's attached to class advantage.

    What do you mean mystics used to be hurt by debuffs? Are you saying they aren't now? I can't go fight Destroyer right now with Black Widow Deadly Origin and apply shocks? He's also armor break immune so why is it you're complaining about Slow?

    Why can't you counter that? It already exists with Ultron.

    I truly don't think you know what you're talking about at all. Nothing you've said makes any sense.
    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game. The one and only time an opponent should counter your advantage is in a boss node and it would be challenging no matter who you had. But now they wired it into the champions base kit so it’s overkill.

    Also I was saying they should be in their kit to be especially hurt by debuffs. Meaning certain debuffs will shut them down like how doom works.

    At the rate they’re going, champions like scorpion and fury will be as useful as doom is but I guess that’s what you people want.
    Homie.. science champions apply debuffs to every class. Mystics aren't specifically anymore hurt by bleed than a cosmic champion. All classes have champions with buffs.

    Class advantage was introduced into the game because it gave the attacked a increase in heath and attack. That's all class advantage does.

    You're not talking about class advantage, you're talking about counters to abilities. Mystics typically have buff control which can be used against any champion who has buffs, including science.

    They've been countering abilities longer than class advantage has been in the game. You truly don't know what you're talking about.
    There’s still supposed to be an advantage besides health increase. Dude I am not talking about all debuffs. This is seriously not hard to comprehend. I am talking about mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs, doom for example. Some mystics actually are just hurt by any debuffs, dragon man and juggernaut.
    The advantage you're talking about is ability counters. Most mystics are more vulnerable to energy damage. ....
    On the whole, I'm happy to let you run with this argument (I'm largely in agreement with you, and have no problem at all with Destroyer being immune to Slow), but specifically on this point, I think you mean Physical damage.

    Mystics very frequently have Energy resistance, and increasingly have negative Physical resistance. So it's Physical damage that they're more vulnerable to.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★

    I don’t get what’s going on with champions that counter their disadvantage. Why are cosmics immune to fate seal, nullify and power steal? No techs do any of that(except one vision). Now there’s destroyer who is immune to slow… he should be HURT by slow like everyone else. Serpent who probably counters mystic more than tech. He stops unstoppable.. but tech doesn’t go unstoppable! Directly counters juggernaut. Kabam is more and more making all my favorite champions useless.

    The fact that 34 people agreed with this is crazy. Your post is about Class advantage and you come out with cosmic and tech and saying no techs have those abilities. Which you're wrong, there are several that do.

    Cosmics are being given those abilities to counter Mystics while on defense or if having to fight a mystic defender.

    I don't understand why Destroyer "HAS" to be hurt by slow. There are already other champs who aren't affected by slow. Ultron and Silk reduces it's duration by 90%

    Furthermore, these abilities aren't always meant to counter the opposite class. They're abilities to counter other abilities in the game. Literally anyone with the parry mastery can counter juggs, no matter the class.

    Again, I find it crazy 34 people agreed with you.
    If destroyer has a feature involving slow it should be a disadvantage. you know, because it’s a debuff. Mystics used to be hurt by debuffs. I think 34 people are tired of their rank ups falling to uselessness. Have you forgotten what a class advantage means? Yeah you aren’t supposed to counter that
    Having Class Advantage has never meant they can't have abilities be countered or counter other abilities. Class Advantage has ALWAYS been an increase in health and attack. There isn't any other stipulation that's attached to class advantage.

    What do you mean mystics used to be hurt by debuffs? Are you saying they aren't now? I can't go fight Destroyer right now with Black Widow Deadly Origin and apply shocks? He's also armor break immune so why is it you're complaining about Slow?

    Why can't you counter that? It already exists with Ultron.

    I truly don't think you know what you're talking about at all. Nothing you've said makes any sense.
    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game. The one and only time an opponent should counter your advantage is in a boss node and it would be challenging no matter who you had. But now they wired it into the champions base kit so it’s overkill.

    Also I was saying they should be in their kit to be especially hurt by debuffs. Meaning certain debuffs will shut them down like how doom works.

    At the rate they’re going, champions like scorpion and fury will be as useful as doom is but I guess that’s what you people want.
    Homie.. science champions apply debuffs to every class. Mystics aren't specifically anymore hurt by bleed than a cosmic champion. All classes have champions with buffs.

    Class advantage was introduced into the game because it gave the attacked a increase in heath and attack. That's all class advantage does.

    You're not talking about class advantage, you're talking about counters to abilities. Mystics typically have buff control which can be used against any champion who has buffs, including science.

    They've been countering abilities longer than class advantage has been in the game. You truly don't know what you're talking about.
    There’s still supposed to be an advantage besides health increase. Dude I am not talking about all debuffs. This is seriously not hard to comprehend. I am talking about mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs, doom for example. Some mystics actually are just hurt by any debuffs, dragon man and juggernaut.
    The advantage you're talking about is ability counters. Most mystics are more vulnerable to energy damage. ....
    On the whole, I'm happy to let you run with this argument (I'm largely in agreement with you, and have no problem at all with Destroyer being immune to Slow), but specifically on this point, I think you mean Physical damage.

    Mystics very frequently have Energy resistance, and increasingly have negative Physical resistance. So it's Physical damage that they're more vulnerable to.
    You're probably right. I was thinking of the interaction with Torch and Mystics but I just remembered they usually deal energy damage which fuels Torch. I had it backwards. That's my fault.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,648 Guardian

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,551 ★★★★★

    I don’t get what’s going on with champions that counter their disadvantage. Why are cosmics immune to fate seal, nullify and power steal? No techs do any of that(except one vision). Now there’s destroyer who is immune to slow… he should be HURT by slow like everyone else. Serpent who probably counters mystic more than tech. He stops unstoppable.. but tech doesn’t go unstoppable! Directly counters juggernaut. Kabam is more and more making all my favorite champions useless.

    The fact that 34 people agreed with this is crazy. Your post is about Class advantage and you come out with cosmic and tech and saying no techs have those abilities. Which you're wrong, there are several that do.

    Cosmics are being given those abilities to counter Mystics while on defense or if having to fight a mystic defender.

    I don't understand why Destroyer "HAS" to be hurt by slow. There are already other champs who aren't affected by slow. Ultron and Silk reduces it's duration by 90%

    Furthermore, these abilities aren't always meant to counter the opposite class. They're abilities to counter other abilities in the game. Literally anyone with the parry mastery can counter juggs, no matter the class.

    Again, I find it crazy 34 people agreed with you.
    If destroyer has a feature involving slow it should be a disadvantage. you know, because it’s a debuff. Mystics used to be hurt by debuffs. I think 34 people are tired of their rank ups falling to uselessness. Have you forgotten what a class advantage means? Yeah you aren’t supposed to counter that
    Having Class Advantage has never meant they can't have abilities be countered or counter other abilities. Class Advantage has ALWAYS been an increase in health and attack. There isn't any other stipulation that's attached to class advantage.

    What do you mean mystics used to be hurt by debuffs? Are you saying they aren't now? I can't go fight Destroyer right now with Black Widow Deadly Origin and apply shocks? He's also armor break immune so why is it you're complaining about Slow?

    Why can't you counter that? It already exists with Ultron.

    I truly don't think you know what you're talking about at all. Nothing you've said makes any sense.
    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game. The one and only time an opponent should counter your advantage is in a boss node and it would be challenging no matter who you had. But now they wired it into the champions base kit so it’s overkill.

    Also I was saying they should be in their kit to be especially hurt by debuffs. Meaning certain debuffs will shut them down like how doom works.

    At the rate they’re going, champions like scorpion and fury will be as useful as doom is but I guess that’s what you people want.
    Homie.. science champions apply debuffs to every class. Mystics aren't specifically anymore hurt by bleed than a cosmic champion. All classes have champions with buffs.

    Class advantage was introduced into the game because it gave the attacked a increase in heath and attack. That's all class advantage does.

    You're not talking about class advantage, you're talking about counters to abilities. Mystics typically have buff control which can be used against any champion who has buffs, including science.

    They've been countering abilities longer than class advantage has been in the game. You truly don't know what you're talking about.
    There’s still supposed to be an advantage besides health increase. Dude I am not talking about all debuffs. This is seriously not hard to comprehend. I am talking about mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs, doom for example. Some mystics actually are just hurt by any debuffs, dragon man and juggernaut.
    I truly don't know what you mean by "mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs". Which mystic and which debuffs? What debuffs is Doom more vulnerable to than other mystics?

    The advantage you're talking about is ability counters. Most mystics are more vulnerable to energy damage. Cosmic champs tend to have a lot of buffs so mystics counter them but that vulnerability isn't limited to mystics. Venom is a great matchup for buff heavy champs because he can nullify them off sp1.

    Again, for the 3rd or 4th time, it's not class advantage that you're talking about. It's ability countering.
    Physical. Most mystics have base energy resistance but very low, no or even negative physical resistance. And many science champs deal physical damage
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    Apparently Abom since Mystics are the only class that suffer more from debuffs.
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41
    edited March 30
    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41

    I don’t get what’s going on with champions that counter their disadvantage. Why are cosmics immune to fate seal, nullify and power steal? No techs do any of that(except one vision). Now there’s destroyer who is immune to slow… he should be HURT by slow like everyone else. Serpent who probably counters mystic more than tech. He stops unstoppable.. but tech doesn’t go unstoppable! Directly counters juggernaut. Kabam is more and more making all my favorite champions useless.

    The fact that 34 people agreed with this is crazy. Your post is about Class advantage and you come out with cosmic and tech and saying no techs have those abilities. Which you're wrong, there are several that do.

    Cosmics are being given those abilities to counter Mystics while on defense or if having to fight a mystic defender.

    I don't understand why Destroyer "HAS" to be hurt by slow. There are already other champs who aren't affected by slow. Ultron and Silk reduces it's duration by 90%

    Furthermore, these abilities aren't always meant to counter the opposite class. They're abilities to counter other abilities in the game. Literally anyone with the parry mastery can counter juggs, no matter the class.

    Again, I find it crazy 34 people agreed with you.
    If destroyer has a feature involving slow it should be a disadvantage. you know, because it’s a debuff. Mystics used to be hurt by debuffs. I think 34 people are tired of their rank ups falling to uselessness. Have you forgotten what a class advantage means? Yeah you aren’t supposed to counter that
    Having Class Advantage has never meant they can't have abilities be countered or counter other abilities. Class Advantage has ALWAYS been an increase in health and attack. There isn't any other stipulation that's attached to class advantage.

    What do you mean mystics used to be hurt by debuffs? Are you saying they aren't now? I can't go fight Destroyer right now with Black Widow Deadly Origin and apply shocks? He's also armor break immune so why is it you're complaining about Slow?

    Why can't you counter that? It already exists with Ultron.

    I truly don't think you know what you're talking about at all. Nothing you've said makes any sense.
    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game. The one and only time an opponent should counter your advantage is in a boss node and it would be challenging no matter who you had. But now they wired it into the champions base kit so it’s overkill.

    Also I was saying they should be in their kit to be especially hurt by debuffs. Meaning certain debuffs will shut them down like how doom works.

    At the rate they’re going, champions like scorpion and fury will be as useful as doom is but I guess that’s what you people want.
    Homie.. science champions apply debuffs to every class. Mystics aren't specifically anymore hurt by bleed than a cosmic champion. All classes have champions with buffs.

    Class advantage was introduced into the game because it gave the attacked a increase in heath and attack. That's all class advantage does.

    You're not talking about class advantage, you're talking about counters to abilities. Mystics typically have buff control which can be used against any champion who has buffs, including science.

    They've been countering abilities longer than class advantage has been in the game. You truly don't know what you're talking about.
    There’s still supposed to be an advantage besides health increase. Dude I am not talking about all debuffs. This is seriously not hard to comprehend. I am talking about mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs, doom for example. Some mystics actually are just hurt by any debuffs, dragon man and juggernaut.
    I truly don't know what you mean by "mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs". Which mystic and which debuffs? What debuffs is Doom more vulnerable to than other mystics?

    The advantage you're talking about is ability counters. Most mystics are more vulnerable to energy damage. Cosmic champs tend to have a lot of buffs so mystics counter them but that vulnerability isn't limited to mystics. Venom is a great matchup for buff heavy champs because he can nullify them off sp1.

    Again, for the 3rd or 4th time, it's not class advantage that you're talking about. It's ability countering.
    Doom is vulnerable to slow. It says it in his info. It also says in the info of other mystics what they’re vulnerable to(dragon man again for example with non dmg debuffs). yeah cosmics do get a lot of buffs but it doesn’t help if the mystic you have has abilities that the champ is immune to. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. They just make em less and less useful so you need to have a plethora of just one class. Nobody has the time or sanity for that unless it’s your job.

    Venom surely counters buffs, I would definitely know but mainly it’s a mystic thing. Ability countering is supposed to be tied to class advantage. I mean it’s supposed to be but not anymore. That’s the whole problem.

  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 5,954 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41
    edited March 30

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,365 ★★★★★
    edited March 30

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    How long have you been playing this game? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, I’m genuinely asking. Because Yellow Jacket has slow *now,* but that’s after he received a massive rework. Same with Spider-Gwen. Gwen literally used to not even do damage on her sp1, it just made her do a backhand spring. She-Hulk also did not have slow at the time of her release, that came in a later rework to the champion.

    You have argued that the game should not evolve, and yet it is very clear from your comments that you only started playing the game relatively recently (maybe in the last three or four years?), so you’ve benefited from so many of the changes that you’re now angry about.

    Finally, I really do not understand how you can fight against the idea of needing to collect champions in a game that is literally about collecting champions. It’s right there in the name of the game. It’s not Marvel Contest of Champion (singular), it’s not Contest of Three or Four Guys Per Class (that would be a terrible acronym), it’s Contest of Champions. You’re gonna need a lot of them.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    edited March 30

    I don’t get what’s going on with champions that counter their disadvantage. Why are cosmics immune to fate seal, nullify and power steal? No techs do any of that(except one vision). Now there’s destroyer who is immune to slow… he should be HURT by slow like everyone else. Serpent who probably counters mystic more than tech. He stops unstoppable.. but tech doesn’t go unstoppable! Directly counters juggernaut. Kabam is more and more making all my favorite champions useless.

    The fact that 34 people agreed with this is crazy. Your post is about Class advantage and you come out with cosmic and tech and saying no techs have those abilities. Which you're wrong, there are several that do.

    Cosmics are being given those abilities to counter Mystics while on defense or if having to fight a mystic defender.

    I don't understand why Destroyer "HAS" to be hurt by slow. There are already other champs who aren't affected by slow. Ultron and Silk reduces it's duration by 90%

    Furthermore, these abilities aren't always meant to counter the opposite class. They're abilities to counter other abilities in the game. Literally anyone with the parry mastery can counter juggs, no matter the class.

    Again, I find it crazy 34 people agreed with you.
    If destroyer has a feature involving slow it should be a disadvantage. you know, because it’s a debuff. Mystics used to be hurt by debuffs. I think 34 people are tired of their rank ups falling to uselessness. Have you forgotten what a class advantage means? Yeah you aren’t supposed to counter that
    Having Class Advantage has never meant they can't have abilities be countered or counter other abilities. Class Advantage has ALWAYS been an increase in health and attack. There isn't any other stipulation that's attached to class advantage.

    What do you mean mystics used to be hurt by debuffs? Are you saying they aren't now? I can't go fight Destroyer right now with Black Widow Deadly Origin and apply shocks? He's also armor break immune so why is it you're complaining about Slow?

    Why can't you counter that? It already exists with Ultron.

    I truly don't think you know what you're talking about at all. Nothing you've said makes any sense.
    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game. The one and only time an opponent should counter your advantage is in a boss node and it would be challenging no matter who you had. But now they wired it into the champions base kit so it’s overkill.

    Also I was saying they should be in their kit to be especially hurt by debuffs. Meaning certain debuffs will shut them down like how doom works.

    At the rate they’re going, champions like scorpion and fury will be as useful as doom is but I guess that’s what you people want.
    Homie.. science champions apply debuffs to every class. Mystics aren't specifically anymore hurt by bleed than a cosmic champion. All classes have champions with buffs.

    Class advantage was introduced into the game because it gave the attacked a increase in heath and attack. That's all class advantage does.

    You're not talking about class advantage, you're talking about counters to abilities. Mystics typically have buff control which can be used against any champion who has buffs, including science.

    They've been countering abilities longer than class advantage has been in the game. You truly don't know what you're talking about.
    There’s still supposed to be an advantage besides health increase. Dude I am not talking about all debuffs. This is seriously not hard to comprehend. I am talking about mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs, doom for example. Some mystics actually are just hurt by any debuffs, dragon man and juggernaut.
    I truly don't know what you mean by "mystics in their kit to be shut down by certain debuffs". Which mystic and which debuffs? What debuffs is Doom more vulnerable to than other mystics?

    The advantage you're talking about is ability counters. Most mystics are more vulnerable to energy damage. Cosmic champs tend to have a lot of buffs so mystics counter them but that vulnerability isn't limited to mystics. Venom is a great matchup for buff heavy champs because he can nullify them off sp1.

    Again, for the 3rd or 4th time, it's not class advantage that you're talking about. It's ability countering.
    Doom is vulnerable to slow. It says it in his info. It also says in the info of other mystics what they’re vulnerable to(dragon man again for example with non dmg debuffs). yeah cosmics do get a lot of buffs but it doesn’t help if the mystic you have has abilities that the champ is immune to. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. They just make em less and less useful so you need to have a plethora of just one class. Nobody has the time or sanity for that unless it’s your job.

    Venom surely counters buffs, I would definitely know but mainly it’s a mystic thing. Ability countering is supposed to be tied to class advantage. I mean it’s supposed to be but not anymore. That’s the whole problem.

    Ability countering is NOT tied to class advantage. Take your L and move on.

    Doom isn't vulnerable to slow. Slow AND Petrify cause Aura of Haazareth to not trigger. Slow doesn't make Doom take more damage.

    Dragon Man's Power Charge cooldown is extended by .35 seconds if a Science champion inflicts a non-damaging debuff. BUT, if under the effect of an Armor Break (this is a Non-Damaging debuff by the way) Dragon Man deals degeneration. So right there, your whole point is completely moot.

    Galan is immue to fate seal and nuffliy but isn't immune to stagger. Which means I can use a champion like Symbiote Supreme against Galan and not have to worry about his buffs. That's the whole point of having a class of champions with different abilities.

    Again, take your L and move on. You've been wrong from the beginning and not said a single thing that makes sense since.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    edited March 30

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41
    Wicket329 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    How long have you been playing this game? I don’t mean that in a condescending way, I’m genuinely asking. Because Yellow Jacket has slow *now,* but that’s after he received a massive rework. Same with Spider-Gwen. Gwen literally used to not even do damage on her sp1, it just made her do a backhand spring. She-Hulk also did not have slow at the time of her release, that came in a later rework to the champion.

    You have argued that the game should not evolve, and yet it is very clear from your comments that you only started playing the game relatively recently (maybe in the last three or four years?), so you’ve benefited from so many of the changes that you’re now angry about.

    Finally, I really do not understand how you can fight against the idea of needing to collect champions in a game that is literally about collecting champions. It’s right there in the name of the game. It’s not Marvel Contest of Champion (singular), it’s not Contest of Three or Four Guys Per Class (that would be a terrible acronym), it’s Contest of Champions. You’re gonna need a lot of them.
    I’ve played since the beginning on and off. I don’t remember how exactly they were before the rework. Idk spider Gwen at all but I thought she always had slow.

    And the game ‘evolving’ really it’s just evolving backwards. Like I said not everyone has the time or resources or patience to learn all these champions especially the new ones. If you’re a content creator then yeah I bet you don’t mind at all. If you’re playing for fun then I would doubt it. Sometimes I do it and realize they have less utility than my own champions. This game has and always should be about preference and choice but now it’s not.
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    edited March 31

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
  • i13i13 Member Posts: 153
    Meh,

    I think unstoppable and unblockable should be removed entirely.


    Bringing in new champs with super buffs like this is basically a selling point for Kabam, who wouldn’t want a full party of unstoppable and unblockable champs. Definitely a money maker for what you’d call game changer.

    I have 2 champs I feel like I need at all times to deal with buffs.

    1. Silk, slow, heal block and raw damage is the best way to deal with a lot of super champs.

    2. Iceman, counters most damage over time nodes I can’t be bothered to deal with, and best of all… a shield that can reduce a special 3 to a small 5% damage. Which helps a lot when you’ve spent 5 minutes bating a champ who just won’t give out.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    i13 said:

    Meh,

    I think unstoppable and unblockable should be removed entirely.


    Bringing in new champs with super buffs like this is basically a selling point for Kabam, who wouldn’t want a full party of unstoppable and unblockable champs. Definitely a money maker for what you’d call game changer.

    I have 2 champs I feel like I need at all times to deal with buffs.

    1. Silk, slow, heal block and raw damage is the best way to deal with a lot of super champs.

    2. Iceman, counters most damage over time nodes I can’t be bothered to deal with, and best of all… a shield that can reduce a special 3 to a small 5% damage. Which helps a lot when you’ve spent 5 minutes bating a champ who just won’t give out.

    Expand your horizons.
  • shield311shield311 Member Posts: 819 ★★★

    Genuinely shocked tbh, wasn't nimrod supposed to be the mutant slayer? I took no hits, its all block damage and neuroshocks lol, and onslaught takes no passive shock damage?
  • xLunatiXxxLunatiXx Member Posts: 1,413 ★★★★★
    shield311 said:


    Genuinely shocked tbh, wasn't nimrod supposed to be the mutant slayer? I took no hits, its all block damage and neuroshocks lol, and onslaught takes no passive shock damage?

    Read his kit, he reduces potency by 150%.
    Mutant slayer doesn't mean auto win vs all mutants.
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
    What other class is big on heal block? Can’t remember
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,551 ★★★★★
    shield311 said:


    Genuinely shocked tbh, wasn't nimrod supposed to be the mutant slayer? I took no hits, its all block damage and neuroshocks lol, and onslaught takes no passive shock damage?

    Onslaught was basically designed to counter Nimrod because he is fully shock resistant and doesn’t have prowess or regeneration that Nimrod can take advantage of.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
    What other class is big on heal block? Can’t remember
    Heal block is an ability designed to counter regeneration. It wasn't designed to counter mutants.

    There are cosmic, mystics and science champions with heal block.

    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Heal_Block#List_of_Champions_with_Heal_Block
  • NightheartNightheart Member Posts: 2,117 ★★★★
    shield311 said:


    Genuinely shocked tbh, wasn't nimrod supposed to be the mutant slayer? I took no hits, its all block damage and neuroshocks lol, and onslaught takes no passive shock damage?

    Nimrod is a very bad option to use against Onslaught
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
    What other class is big on heal block? Can’t remember
    Heal block is an ability designed to counter regeneration. It wasn't designed to counter mutants.

    There are cosmic, mystics and science champions with heal block.

    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Heal_Block#List_of_Champions_with_Heal_Block
    It’s definitely designed to counter mutants because they’re supposed to counter mutants. That’s why techs mostly do it. It says it all in the class wheel in the game. It’s what used to separate the classes. The game has lost its identity and it’s just a cluster**** now.

    Evolving is fine in general. new debuffs, play styles, that’s awesome but they should not bend the classes like they’re doing now.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,365 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
    What other class is big on heal block? Can’t remember
    Heal block is an ability designed to counter regeneration. It wasn't designed to counter mutants.

    There are cosmic, mystics and science champions with heal block.

    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Heal_Block#List_of_Champions_with_Heal_Block
    It’s definitely designed to counter mutants because they’re supposed to counter mutants. That’s why techs mostly do it. It says it all in the class wheel in the game. It’s what used to separate the classes. The game has lost its identity and it’s just a cluster**** now.

    Evolving is fine in general. new debuffs, play styles, that’s awesome but they should not bend the classes like they’re doing now.
    This game uses what I call an arms race theory of champion development. A champion gets a new piece of defensive utility, another champ must get something to counter it, another then somebody’s gotta get a counter to the counter, on and on it goes. That’s how you guarantee usefulness in new champions when you’ve got over 250 of them in the game.

    Your suggestion leads to stagnation. Why invent new debuffs if the old ones still work? Why create new playstyles if the existing ones have no counterplay? Tigra and Rintrah and Wiccan would be irrelevant if not for nullify/fate seal countering cosmics.

    Without new problems, new solutions aren’t needed. What you’re asking for kills the game.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
    What other class is big on heal block? Can’t remember
    Heal block is an ability designed to counter regeneration. It wasn't designed to counter mutants.

    There are cosmic, mystics and science champions with heal block.

    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Heal_Block#List_of_Champions_with_Heal_Block
    It’s definitely designed to counter mutants because they’re supposed to counter mutants. That’s why techs mostly do it. It says it all in the class wheel in the game. It’s what used to separate the classes. The game has lost its identity and it’s just a cluster**** now.

    Evolving is fine in general. new debuffs, play styles, that’s awesome but they should not bend the classes like they’re doing now.
    Whatever you say homie. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some are good. Some are bad. And then there's yours. Peace.
  • JarlofModesto25JarlofModesto25 Member Posts: 41
    edited April 5
    Wicket329 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Did you just say the only thing advantage is is health increase? Did you just start or something? Science class deal debuffs that generally weaken mystic especially heal reversal and slow. Mystic benefits from opponents with buffs generally. This stuff has been a thing since the start of the game.

    Actually, class identities were not originally a thing. They evolved over time.

    These are the mystic champions that existed in the game as of the end of 2015, a full year after the game was released:



    Ignoring the two trophy champs, there are seven, and of those seven only three had buff suppression at the time (Dr. Strange, Magik, Scarlet Witch).

    Here are the science champs:



    Of these, ignoring classic class advantage numbers, which would be good mystic counters with their original kits? I'm not sure any of them would be. Not even Spider Gwen with that OP SP1.
    The thing is buff control is not the only trait about mystics. And 3 is still more than other classes.

    Yellowjacket and I think spider Gwen could beat unstoppables. Antman could beat DS, iron fists and scarlet witch. Captain America and Luke could also beat the iron fists. And the rest of them have an advantage by not getting buffs besides dex.

    There were always class traits that set them apart from each other and gave them the upper hand on the next class, also traits that left them vulnerable to disadvantages(doom vulnerable to slow and so on) That’s what made the game fun. Now it’s just a huge clusterfu
    Seriously? You say 'there were always', and then talk of abilities that didn't exist back then. Neither Yellowjacket nor SpiderGwen had Slow, because Slow didn't exist. There was no way to stop Unstoppable at all, back then.

    Seriously, get over this "Class Ability nonsense".

    Unstoppable is not a Mystical ability. Or if it is, you'll need to tell these guys to stop going Unstoppable:
    • Kingpin
    • Red Skull
    • Annihilus
    • Gladiator
    • Hulk (Ragnarok)
    • Knull
    • Korg
    • Mole Man
    • Nimrod
    • Rhino
    • Thing
    • Weapon X
    Plus, The Destroyer isn't having it all his own way - the Science class are currently the only champions with access to Decelerate (Sandman, Classic Spider-Man, Antivenom). So, Science is doing fine.
    Yellowjacket does have slow. And then later she hulk for example heavily counters unstoppable. I never said mystic is the only class that CAN have slow. Like regen is mainly a mutant thing but other champions get it right?

    And yeah I know about descelerate exists. On irrelevant champions. They want you to broaden your science class too just like what they did to mystic
    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration#List_of_Champions_with_Regeneration
    There's nearly as many Cosmics with regen as there are Mutants.

    There's also more Mystics with regen than mutants.

    So is it a mutant thing? No. No it's not.
    It’s true mystics also regen too. That’s why sciences are huge on regen reversal. But mutants do too in many ways. That’s why techs heal block
    Moving the goal posts.


    But yes, Tech champs have heal block for mutants. Not anyone else.😑
    What other class is big on heal block? Can’t remember
    Heal block is an ability designed to counter regeneration. It wasn't designed to counter mutants.

    There are cosmic, mystics and science champions with heal block.

    https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Heal_Block#List_of_Champions_with_Heal_Block
    It’s definitely designed to counter mutants because they’re supposed to counter mutants. That’s why techs mostly do it. It says it all in the class wheel in the game. It’s what used to separate the classes. The game has lost its identity and it’s just a cluster**** now.

    Evolving is fine in general. new debuffs, play styles, that’s awesome but they should not bend the classes like they’re doing now.
    This game uses what I call an arms race theory of champion development. A champion gets a new piece of defensive utility, another champ must get something to counter it, another then somebody’s gotta get a counter to the counter, on and on it goes. That’s how you guarantee usefulness in new champions when you’ve got over 250 of them in the game.

    Your suggestion leads to stagnation. Why invent new debuffs if the old ones still work? Why create new playstyles if the existing ones have no counterplay? Tigra and Rintrah and Wiccan would be irrelevant if not for nullify/fate seal countering cosmics.

    Without new problems, new solutions aren’t needed. What you’re asking for kills the game.
    I’m asking for them not to kill the game. I never wanted them to not invent new debuffs. I just don’t want existing ones to be specifically made less useful. Rintrah wouldn’t be useless if other options were still open because it’s 100% preference. Thing, for example. There’s many ways to beat him. Should they make him immune to slow so people use bleed on him more? That’d be ridiculous. I already used rintrah over doom and others because he’s easier and simpler. Besides there’s already nullify countering nodes in the game that do what you want. It breaks up your roster and that makes it interesting, that’s a good thing but why do you need it in the base kits too? There’s absolutely no reason for that unless you only do battlegrounds

    It also just gets boring if there’s only one way to beat a champion and you use the same one every time
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