Double Medium AI Reparry…Still

DrZola

Anyone working on this one?

Dr. Zola

WayWorn2525

I wonder as well, especially using WWBN.

DrZola

WayWorn2525 said:

I wonder as well, especially using WWBN.

By my estimate, it’s been a problem for all of 2024 and the last few months of 2023.

From the team on February 20:

“ On a brighter note, we’d like to share that we are actively working on a few fixes in particular. In the coming months, we will be testing a change to make defenders more willing to throw special attacks, particularly when facing characters with deeper dodge animations, such as Quicksilver or basically anyone with an XL body type. If testing goes well, we hope to ship that live afterwards. We are also working on improving how defenders access the parry mastery in general. The goal is both to fix the current problem with defenders re-parrying champions with double-hit medium attacks and to make parries feel more fair overall.”

I have a feeling this one is being *worked on* the same way I’m *working on* cleaning the basement storage room.

Dr. Zola

BigBlueOx

One eternity later…

Rustyoneil

I have use WWBN all season in AW. I’ve only had a couple reparry issues at the beginning of the season. The last half of the season I have not had an issue at all. The hardest part about this bug has been the inconsistency, but Kabam has left us very choices when it comes to attackers

Bugmat78

I've given up - WWBN is my Onslaught counter most times but in BGs with masteries he's barely usable with this issue.

Josh2507

Is it on the trello board?

GrO_ot78

I have a 6R3 WWBN I want to upgrade, but refuse until things are fixed.
Annoying, because he is good against many troublesome defenders.

KRANꓘ

Yep numerous threads and no answers.
It's a shame for wwbn.

SagaChampion

DrZola said:

Anyone working on this one?

Dr. Zola

I think , ai was playing good than me 😤

Bendy

There still working on it

From the patch notes: We also said we were testing an update to the defender’s use of the Parry mastery. This ran into some additional hurdles and will have to be delayed until a future build to make sure we don’t actually increase how often defenders can Parry, but we’re confident we have a fix identified and will be shipping that soon.

DrZola

Josh2507 said:

Is it on the trello board?

This is the current state of champion specific bugs on Trello:



Perhaps this issue is buried somewhere else on the board, but if so I can’t imagine why. I also cannot find a direct reference (struggled to find the MCOC Trello board as well).

Anyway, the recurrence of this issue (had a Silk reparried by DM in AW just last night) has made me curious about just how long it’s been going on.

Here’s a thread from October of last year asking why Tigra gets parried on her double medium.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2407286#Comment_2407286

There may be earlier posts, but that’s all I had time to locate.

This makes me feel more confident when I say it’s been an issue for the better part of a year with only a tiny bit of response from the team. Outside of the Feb 20 note on AI in general, it’s really been left unaddressed here.

If it is in fact “being worked on,” I don’t have confidence it’s anyone’s priority. If it’s just a thorny bug that can’t really get fixed right now, that’s at least actionable info that I think the team should have shared months ago.

Dr. Zola

DrZola

Bendy said:

There still working on it

From the patch notes: We also said we were testing an update to the defender’s use of the Parry mastery. This ran into some additional hurdles and will have to be delayed until a future build to make sure we don’t actually increase how often defenders can Parry, but we’re confident we have a fix identified and will be shipping that soon.

That’s news. Where is it?

Dr. Zola

Bendy

DrZola said:

Bendy said:

There still working on it

From the patch notes: We also said we were testing an update to the defender’s use of the Parry mastery. This ran into some additional hurdles and will have to be delayed until a future build to make sure we don’t actually increase how often defenders can Parry, but we’re confident we have a fix identified and will be shipping that soon.

That’s news. Where is it?

Dr. Zola

It was from this patch notes under ai update

https://playcontestofchampions.com/news/v44-1-release-notes/

DrZola

Bendy said:

DrZola said:

Bendy said:

There still working on it

From the patch notes: We also said we were testing an update to the defender’s use of the Parry mastery. This ran into some additional hurdles and will have to be delayed until a future build to make sure we don’t actually increase how often defenders can Parry, but we’re confident we have a fix identified and will be shipping that soon.

That’s news. Where is it?

Dr. Zola

It was from this patch notes under ai update

https://playcontestofchampions.com/news/v44-1-release-notes/

That’s interesting. Thanks for posting that, although I’m a little surprised the team didn’t call that out more prominently since this has been a long standing and relatively significant issue (for example, it impacts at least 4-5 of the most useful attackers in competitive content). It sounds like it’s still in the “coming soon” phase.

Dr. Zola

Bendy

DrZola said:

Bendy said:

DrZola said:

Bendy said:

There still working on it

From the patch notes: We also said we were testing an update to the defender’s use of the Parry mastery. This ran into some additional hurdles and will have to be delayed until a future build to make sure we don’t actually increase how often defenders can Parry, but we’re confident we have a fix identified and will be shipping that soon.

That’s news. Where is it?

Dr. Zola

It was from this patch notes under ai update

https://playcontestofchampions.com/news/v44-1-release-notes/

That’s interesting. Thanks for posting that, although I’m a little surprised the team didn’t call that out more prominently since this has been a long standing and relatively significant issue (for example, it impacts at least 4-5 of the most useful attackers in competitive content). It sounds like it’s still in the “coming soon” phase.

Dr. Zola

They only give updates when more news which there isnt but still same old of still working to find a way to fix without breaking anything else

Thecurler

Imo there’s a simple temporary solution to this.

Remove defenders ability to parry until they fix it.

World Eater

Apparently it’s not worthy enough for the trello board so must now be a new game feature and not a bug

These past few years have been the absolute worst when it comes to communication re: bug and bug reports . Downright b!$$ Poor

PT_99

It's honestly bad that such a basic thing of game is taking this long to fix, no sprinkling or big words, it's just bad.
Heroes with 2 strikes on block are just unusable, people who paid money for early access to wolf just can't use him anymore.

Pikolu

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

jcphillips7

PT_99 said:

It's honestly bad that such a basic thing of game is taking this long to fix, no sprinkling or big words, it's just bad.
Heroes with 2 strikes on block are just unusable, people who paid money for early access to wolf just can't use him anymore.

I can't speak for everyone, but I took the risk and used WWBN multiple times in high tier war this season and never got reparried once hitting Lights into their block. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years, but EVERY time I fight ANYONE with ANY champ, my 5 hit combos would look like this to anyone who watched my hand:

SWIPETAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPSWIPE

I do that and don't have a single problem.

World Eater

Pikolu said:

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

This bug isn’t listed on their touted bug board, trello. Zero acknowledgement of this bug on their own bug board and no public communication within how many months now ?? How are we to trust or have confidence in Kabam when they can’t even update their own. Bug tracker ?

This isn’t an isolated issue either; this is now SOP.

DrZola

Pikolu said:

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.

Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.

This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”

Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.

So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.

It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.

Dr. Zola

Pikolu

DrZola said:

Pikolu said:

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.

Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.

This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”

Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.

So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.

It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.

Dr. Zola

I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.

DrZola

@jcphillips7 I’m going to ask a 100% noob (and serious) question here…when you “SWIPE” before tapping, how does that not register as a medium hit?

Maybe I’m not moving fast enough, but I just now had my Black Cat get reparried in practice mode testing it out trying to swipe in while quickly canceling my swipe (M) into a light.

Dr. Zola

DrZola

Pikolu said:

DrZola said:

Pikolu said:

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.

Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.

This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”

Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.

So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.

It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.

Dr. Zola

I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.

That’s fair, and I appreciate the response. Now, if tomorrow’s SoS installment requires MM champs and has an Onslaught who can reparry, I suspect this thread will be back with a vengeance. 🙂

Dr. Zola

jcphillips7

DrZola said:

@jcphillips7 I’m going to ask a 100% noob (and serious) question here…when you “SWIPE” before tapping, how does that not register as a medium hit?

Maybe I’m not moving fast enough, but I just now had my Black Cat get reparried in practice mode testing it out trying to swipe in while quickly canceling my swipe (M) into a light.

Dr. Zola

Idk man. I always just swipe/dash in like normal (I'm using WWBN in this scenario) and my right thumb is already in lightning tap mode while those previous hits are connecting.

DrZola

jcphillips7 said:

DrZola said:

@jcphillips7 I’m going to ask a 100% noob (and serious) question here…when you “SWIPE” before tapping, how does that not register as a medium hit?

Maybe I’m not moving fast enough, but I just now had my Black Cat get reparried in practice mode testing it out trying to swipe in while quickly canceling my swipe (M) into a light.

Dr. Zola

Idk man. I always just swipe/dash in like normal (I'm using WWBN in this scenario) and my right thumb is already in lightning tap mode while those previous hits are connecting.

I will keep trying it…my swipe is automatically interpreted as a medium (and therefore a double medium) before I can drop that first tap. Time for thumb calisthenics maybe?

Dr. Zola

Dirty_Dozz

jcphillips7 said:

PT_99 said:

It's honestly bad that such a basic thing of game is taking this long to fix, no sprinkling or big words, it's just bad.
Heroes with 2 strikes on block are just unusable, people who paid money for early access to wolf just can't use him anymore.

I can't speak for everyone, but I took the risk and used WWBN multiple times in high tier war this season and never got reparried once hitting Lights into their block. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years, but EVERY time I fight ANYONE with ANY champ, my 5 hit combos would look like this to anyone who watched my hand:

SWIPETAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPTAPSWIPE

I do that and don't have a single problem.

Honestly, this seems key. The times I try and slow play (I also use WWBN in AW and BGs a bunch, since I have him at 7R3), I get reparried like 90%. But if I just go ham and taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap after my first swipe, I only seem to get parried like 5% of the time, if that.

World Eater

Pikolu said:

DrZola said:

Pikolu said:

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.

Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.

This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”

Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.

So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.

It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.

Dr. Zola

I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.

Update on what ???? It’s not an acknowledged bug, listed on trello. How much of a priority can it be ?

DrZola

World Eater said:

Pikolu said:

DrZola said:

Pikolu said:

Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.

I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.

Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.

This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”

Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.

So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.

It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.

Dr. Zola

I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.

Update on what ???? It’s not an acknowledged bug, listed on trello. How much of a priority can it be ?

This is a broader issue and one that has been continuous for as long as I can remember. Communication with the community has always seemed like a weakness.

Fragmentation of information sources exacerbates that problem. What’s the proper source? Is it Trello? Is it X? Is it the livestream? Is it Discord? Is it the forums? Is it the website or is it something else? Maybe a YouTube video from a member of the CCP?

Dr. Zola