Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.
I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.
Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.
This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”
Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.
So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.
It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.
Dr. Zola
I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.
Update on what ???? It’s not an acknowledged bug, listed on trello. How much of a priority can it be ?
This is a broader issue and one that has been continuous for as long as I can remember. Communication with the community has always seemed like a weakness.
Fragmentation of information sources exacerbates that problem. What’s the proper source? Is it Trello? Is it X? Is it the livestream? Is it Discord? Is it the forums? Is it the website or is it something else? Maybe a YouTube video from a member of the CCP?
Dr. Zola
Communication since trello was announced has been 100x worse and it was already bad before that.
While it may not be particular to the 2nd hit of a single 2-hit Medium getting parried, might be some interpretation misunderstanding between the points.
One is saying that it is just the single trigger of doing a single Medium into block (but that champ's mechanics is that the Medium contains 2 hits).
Other maybe thinking they were saying it was literally double-Medium (as in Medium-Medium) ? Where maybe because of timing, the 2nd Medium (or any 2nd or beyond hit in general) has not already been “queue'd up” for the next attack, instead of sort of doing one hit, wait for visual clue that hit is occurring, before making your next swipe or tap.
The example of MLLLLLLLLLLM as the physical input on the device just means that they are rapid firing Taps without regard to timing, so that the “next hit” is always “queue'd up”, and then you finish with an ending Swipe(M) once the 3rd Light starts to be processed on screen (so the final Medium is what is queue'd up). Any excess “queue'd up” inputs during a hit just take the place of an existing “queue'd up” input, so that (obviously) the max that actually gets performed are MLLLM. **which I believe is because the game only queue's up a single input (swipe or tap), so that any of maybe 3 extra rapid fire taps beyond the 4th hit, 3rd Light, get overwritten by a final Medium if done while 3rd Light is still in progress on screen.
While I don’t think that Zola is literally ONLY doing 5 inputs (and because it is the 2nd hit within the 1st Medium which is the issue anyways).. I know there are probably some people out there that indeed do that. SWIPE, wait to see it ending, Tap, wait to see light hit ending, Tap, wait, etc.. then final Swipe. There would end up being way too much “empty time” between hits where the opponent can respond (whether hitting into their block, or just hitting them cleanly, it leaves an opening inbetween each one.
Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.
I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.
Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.
This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”
Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.
So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.
It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.
Dr. Zola
I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.
Update on what ???? It’s not an acknowledged bug, listed on trello. How much of a priority can it be ?
The issue with trello is Miike is the one who has to sustain it, and he is already really busy with all the other tasks he has. As Dr Zola said, information is very fragmented. It would be nice if it got organized into one place, but I wouldn't plan on that happening anytime soon. Until then, you're going to just have to take my word that it is being worked on.
While it may not be particular to the 2nd hit of a single 2-hit Medium getting parried, might be some interpretation misunderstanding between the points.
One is saying that it is just the single trigger of doing a single Medium into block (but that champ's mechanics is that the Medium contains 2 hits).
Other maybe thinking they were saying it was literally double-Medium (as in Medium-Medium) ? Where maybe because of timing, the 2nd Medium (or any 2nd or beyond hit in general) has not already been “queue'd up” for the next attack, instead of sort of doing one hit, wait for visual clue that hit is occurring, before making your next swipe or tap.
The example of MLLLLLLLLLLM as the physical input on the device just means that they are rapid firing Taps without regard to timing, so that the “next hit” is always “queue'd up”, and then you finish with an ending Swipe(M) once the 3rd Light starts to be processed on screen (so the final Medium is what is queue'd up). Any excess “queue'd up” inputs during a hit just take the place of an existing “queue'd up” input, so that (obviously) the max that actually gets performed are MLLLM. **which I believe is because the game only queue's up a single input (swipe or tap), so that any of maybe 3 extra rapid fire taps beyond the 4th hit, 3rd Light, get overwritten by a final Medium if done while 3rd Light is still in progress on screen.
While I don’t think that Zola is literally ONLY doing 5 inputs (and because it is the 2nd hit within the 1st Medium which is the issue anyways).. I know there are probably some people out there that indeed do that. SWIPE, wait to see it ending, Tap, wait to see light hit ending, Tap, wait, etc.. then final Swipe. There would end up being way too much “empty time” between hits where the opponent can respond (whether hitting into their block, or just hitting them cleanly, it leaves an opening inbetween each one.
You get parried with the first light into the block. A champion with a double medium first attack (Tigra was where I was getting it) can get parreid by charging into the block and then following up with a light into the block. ML
So * Defender is blocking the other side of the screen * I dash in (M) and hit his block * I follow up with a L into his block * I get parried
Penni wrecked me in a war using Tigra because I usually hit into her block to remove the sync shield. Since I reproduced it I avoid double medium attackers in AW.
Testing with Black Cat…double medium (single swipe) followed by a light produced a parry 3X in a single practice fight against OGIM, 1X against LDS and 4X against Shuri. Just a single swipe by itself (which is a double medium) didn’t produce a parry.
Ok, now I get it. Guess I never really continue to hit into their block with more than just an initial MEDIUM, and hope they attack right back in which I can Parry them.
I assume then that there are some nodes/buffs that I typically don’t do that requires you to continue to hit into their Block in order to do “something” ?? More than just doing a single Medium. And more than just to be able to push them further back on the playing field.
Black Cat, BWDO, and WWBN, practice against my own OG IM or Shuri.
Ok, now I get it. Guess I never really continue to hit into their block with more than just an initial MEDIUM, and hope they attack right back in which I can Parry them.
I assume then that there are some nodes/buffs that I typically don’t do that requires you to continue to hit into their Block in order to do “something” ?? More than just doing a single Medium. And more than just to be able to push them further back on the playing field.
Black Cat, BWDO, and WWBN, practice against my own OG IM or Shuri.
You need to hit into the block for * Penni to remove sync shield * The last 3 months of AW tactics (poor Werewolf). * Champs that can do good stuff when you the oppponent's block, like that poor werewolf again
Sometimes I hit into the block to * Push them to an SP2 * Get some more distance * Finish em off
However doing any of that in AW/BG with a champ with a double hit first medium is inviting death.
Ok, now I get it. Guess I never really continue to hit into their block with more than just an initial MEDIUM, and hope they attack right back in which I can Parry them.
I assume then that there are some nodes/buffs that I typically don’t do that requires you to continue to hit into their Block in order to do “something” ?? More than just doing a single Medium. And more than just to be able to push them further back on the playing field.
Black Cat, BWDO, and WWBN, practice against my own OG IM or Shuri.
You need to hit into the block for * Penni to remove sync shield * The last 3 months of AW tactics (poor Werewolf). * Champs that can do good stuff when you the oppponent's block, like that poor werewolf again
Sometimes I hit into the block to * Push them to an SP2 * Get some more distance * Finish em off
However doing any of that in AW/BG with a champ with a double hit first medium is inviting death.
100%. This underscores just a few of the nuances of this issue.
A single swipe (double medium) is rarely enough to push an aggressive defender back.
For WW, it doesn’t allow you to inflict more than a rupture or two per block (analogy: imagine you couldn’t make a second hit into block with Valk or Hulkling for fear of being parried and instead have to dash back before reinitiating into the block).
Against Peni, it makes a long fight longer if you can’t hit block more than the one double medium hit (again, fear of having the first light parried).
Kabam is working on it, but changing the AI to not reparry double mediums while also not drastically changing the other behaviors that would make other things much worse, takes a lot of time and testing. Imagine if the reparry bug was solved, but now the AI is a lot more defensive which would make baiting specials a lot more difficult. Once kabam has it in a state where things would appear "normal" to players, then it will get released. You are just going to have to be very patient with this fix.
I would note that waiting the better part of a year for a fix to one of the most basic inputs of a champ is the literal definition of patience.
Add to that the fact that any mention of the bug (and any progress against) is both infrequent and scant. I searched forums for an update (and I’m not new to forums) before another user pointed the most recent info out to me above.
This makes it feel like low priority—despite team assurances that “when we say we are working on it just assume we are working on it.” Anyone who has made it past the age of gullibility knows there are quite different degrees of “working on it.”
Further add that the impact is more pronounced because (1) it hits some of the best attackers in game right now, and (2) in competitive modes like BGs or AW an AI reparry can be quite costly. To my knowledge, there’s been no mention of any sort of interim fix or remedy for a months-old problem.
So, I think I would suggest the players have already been quite accommodating for several months. It’s hard to tell how seriously the issue was taken when it first emerged, but I’m glad you seem to report that the team is trying to take it seriously now.
It’s high time for that. If there is no fix incoming, perhaps you could suggest to them to lay off modes or nodes that adversely affect champs with double mediums? Designing content that disadvantages such champs—while supposedly being hard at work on the issue—seems contradictory.
Dr. Zola
I understand it is frustrating that there are very few updates, but kabam Jax already says many times that they aren't going to have an update until there is actual information to share. Trust me, it isn't low priority and it is being worked on. That's all I can tell you.
Update on what ???? It’s not an acknowledged bug, listed on trello. How much of a priority can it be ?
The issue with trello is Miike is the one who has to sustain it, and he is already really busy with all the other tasks he has. As Dr Zola said, information is very fragmented. It would be nice if it got organized into one place, but I wouldn't plan on that happening anytime soon. Until then, you're going to just have to take my word that it is being worked on.
Sounds like a you (Kabam) problem that they can’t maintain their own bug board and provide (any?) communication when people ask about this or any other bug. Like I previously said, this is not an isolated incident and that is the larger problem that I’m trying to highlight. I can’t even get a bug acknowledged after posting over 10 videos. This is SOP now; valid bug reports get ignored , communication is just about non existent and it feels intentional …. And if it’s not intentional, it’s low priority to Kabam.
Thank you for your efforts to communicate on this and other threads.
Ok, now I get it. Guess I never really continue to hit into their block with more than just an initial MEDIUM, and hope they attack right back in which I can Parry them.
I assume then that there are some nodes/buffs that I typically don’t do that requires you to continue to hit into their Block in order to do “something” ?? More than just doing a single Medium. And more than just to be able to push them further back on the playing field.
Black Cat, BWDO, and WWBN, practice against my own OG IM or Shuri.
You need to hit into the block for * Penni to remove sync shield * The last 3 months of AW tactics (poor Werewolf). * Champs that can do good stuff when you the oppponent's block, like that poor werewolf again
Sometimes I hit into the block to * Push them to an SP2 * Get some more distance * Finish em off
However doing any of that in AW/BG with a champ with a double hit first medium is inviting death.
Correct and it's worse in BGs. Tenacity meta removes half of the ruptures so if you're limited to hitting once into block wwbn gets neutered Vs someone like onslaught
Comments
While it may not be particular to the 2nd hit of a single 2-hit Medium getting parried, might be some interpretation misunderstanding between the points.
One is saying that it is just the single trigger of doing a single Medium into block (but that champ's mechanics is that the Medium contains 2 hits).
Other maybe thinking they were saying it was literally double-Medium (as in Medium-Medium) ? Where maybe because of timing, the 2nd Medium (or any 2nd or beyond hit in general) has not already been “queue'd up” for the next attack, instead of sort of doing one hit, wait for visual clue that hit is occurring, before making your next swipe or tap.
The example of MLLLLLLLLLLM as the physical input on the device just means that they are rapid firing Taps without regard to timing, so that the “next hit” is always “queue'd up”, and then you finish with an ending Swipe(M) once the 3rd Light starts to be processed on screen (so the final Medium is what is queue'd up).
Any excess “queue'd up” inputs during a hit just take the place of an existing “queue'd up” input, so that (obviously) the max that actually gets performed are MLLLM.
**which I believe is because the game only queue's up a single input (swipe or tap), so that any of maybe 3 extra rapid fire taps beyond the 4th hit, 3rd Light, get overwritten by a final Medium if done while 3rd Light is still in progress on screen.
While I don’t think that Zola is literally ONLY doing 5 inputs (and because it is the 2nd hit within the 1st Medium which is the issue anyways)..
I know there are probably some people out there that indeed do that. SWIPE, wait to see it ending, Tap, wait to see light hit ending, Tap, wait, etc.. then final Swipe.
There would end up being way too much “empty time” between hits where the opponent can respond (whether hitting into their block, or just hitting them cleanly, it leaves an opening inbetween each one.
A champion with a double medium first attack (Tigra was where I was getting it) can get parreid by charging into the block and then following up with a light into the block.
ML
So
* Defender is blocking the other side of the screen
* I dash in (M) and hit his block
* I follow up with a L into his block
* I get parried
Penni wrecked me in a war using Tigra because I usually hit into her block to remove the sync shield.
Since I reproduced it I avoid double medium attackers in AW.
Just trying to produce helpful insight.
Dr. Zola
Guess I never really continue to hit into their block with more than just an initial MEDIUM, and hope they attack right back in which I can Parry them.
I assume then that there are some nodes/buffs that I typically don’t do that requires you to continue to hit into their Block in order to do “something” ?? More than just doing a single Medium.
And more than just to be able to push them further back on the playing field.
Black Cat, BWDO, and WWBN, practice against my own OG IM or Shuri.
* Penni to remove sync shield
* The last 3 months of AW tactics (poor Werewolf).
* Champs that can do good stuff when you the oppponent's block, like that poor werewolf again
Sometimes I hit into the block to
* Push them to an SP2
* Get some more distance
* Finish em off
However doing any of that in AW/BG with a champ with a double hit first medium is inviting death.
A single swipe (double medium) is rarely enough to push an aggressive defender back.
For WW, it doesn’t allow you to inflict more than a rupture or two per block (analogy: imagine you couldn’t make a second hit into block with Valk or Hulkling for fear of being parried and instead have to dash back before reinitiating into the block).
Against Peni, it makes a long fight longer if you can’t hit block more than the one double medium hit (again, fear of having the first light parried).
Dr. Zola
Thank you for your efforts to communicate on this and other threads.
Correct and it's worse in BGs. Tenacity meta removes half of the ruptures so if you're limited to hitting once into block wwbn gets neutered Vs someone like onslaught