Is Beta Ray Bill a bit too overhyped?

EdisonLaw

https://youtu.be/fUMsCnpnh-o?si=RoZK9rsGNV85Lojt

Do we agree or disagree with this?
Personally I would disagree

HassamaMama

Not even entertaining this lol. HARD disagree.

Emilia90

I think it’s important to keep your expectations in check and wait to see how he settles into the meta but I’ve seen some very nice things with him. He makes a fair point on how a ton of defenders counter shock so I’ll wait to see how he does

There’s no denying that he’ll be a monster for Necro for people who haven’t done it yet and any shock vulnerable matchup should be cake for him. He has a lot of very nice utility and I’m sure he’ll have a good place in the meta overall

EdisonLaw

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

t123459

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

she is complicated

EdisonLaw

t123459 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

she is complicated

She is but nowhere near as skill based as Tigra, just a lot of memorization needed

HassamaMama

My thing is everything he is saying is so niche - looking for a champ to counter everything is just not how this game should work.

Would you use Shuri against shock immunity? No. Torch against incinerate immunity? No. Any champ that can’t counter Miss against Miss? No.

Bill’s designed to be a high damage dealer with some niche utility of his own. Why is that not enough?

Emilia90

t123459 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

she is complicated

Yeah she is but in a different sense. It’s a memory game with her instead of spacing or making split second decisions like with Tigra or Adam

ItsClobberinTime

I do think he's been a bit overhyped, don't get me wrong he's great and possibly the best attacker in terms of damage this year but some have been blowing things out of proportion lol almost as if he was at Hulkling level and although he is good, he's really not that good.

As for Enchantress, she is very complicated, I disagree with that being a bad thing but she is very complicated indeed. The DLL champ spotlight was 1:05 when most are just 30-40 minutes 💀

Gamer

EdisonLaw said:

t123459 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

she is complicated

She is but nowhere near as skill based as Tigra, just a lot of memorization needed

Memories is in my opinion harder than tigra. That’s op to opinion there I don’t like to complexity. But for me I can’t judge he before I get her it that simple I hav beta and he so simple to use sometimes the AI is a bit tricky to play with.

t123459

i recommend everyone to watch the video . he explained very well his opinion and why .

BigBlueOx

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

He also nailed it on Morbius during that hype train. His actual points are fair ones to consider too.

I still R2’d my Bill and am super happy with him. But it’s a fair thought process.

Also Enchantress looks mid to me. Those that master her may prove me wrong but that’s a lot of squeeze for moderate juice.

EdisonLaw

t123459 said:

i recommend everyone to watch the video . he explained very well his opinion and why .

He explains it well indeed but I don’t think he’s as overhyped as he thinks, not as much as champs like IDoom or some previous champs

EdisonLaw

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

He also nailed it on Morbius during that hype train. His actual points are fair ones to consider too.

I still R2’d my Bill and am super happy with him. But it’s a fair thought process.

Also Enchantress looks mid to me. Those that master her may prove me wrong but that’s a lot of squeeze for moderate juice.

Enchantress is a utility queen though, no mystic has that much utility

Emilia90

ItsClobberinTime said:

I do think he's been a bit overhyped, don't get me wrong he's great and possibly the best attacker in terms of damage this year but some have been blowing things out of proportion lol almost as if he was at Hulkling level and although he is good, he's really not that good.

As for Enchantress, she is very complicated, I disagree with that being a bad thing but she is very complicated indeed. The DLL champ spotlight was 1:05 when most are just 30-40 minutes 💀

Yeah definitely not better than Hulkling for shorter fights from what I’ve seen. For longer fights, he has sustainable ramp so he’s definitely a god for that. I’d like to see more and I’m glad that we have a champ that does it all (short, medium, and long fights). Hulkling (in shorter matchups) simply has more versatility. I also think Hulkling is a timeless champ because of how universal his mechanics are

I saw a comment that I agreed with a lot and it’s essentially that Enchantress is like a console game character put into Mcoc. If you’ve ever played a fighting game they have the most complicated button inputs ever that you need to memorize and execute or just spam less effective basic attacks. She’s obviously not on that level but I think she’s the closest we’ve had and more of a memory test

BigBlueOx

HassamaMama said:

My thing is everything he is saying is so niche - looking for a champ to counter everything is just not how this game should work.

Would you use Shuri against shock immunity? No. Torch against incinerate immunity? No. Any champ that can’t counter Miss against Miss? No.

Bill’s designed to be a high damage dealer with some niche utility of his own. Why is that not enough?

His assessment is greatly influenced by BGs. Thats the type of assessment I make when I review my deck every meta.

Nemesis_17

My expectation is that when all the hype dies down, he will mostly find use as a red skull, imiw, and fam nuke. I think that’s gonna be the grand majority of his bgs use. I think he could work for sassy, weapon X, and maybe a couple others I haven’t thought of, but its mostly those 3 big techs. I think he’s a solid champ, and a pretty nice addition, but not a new staple who’s a must have.

BigBlueOx

EdisonLaw said:

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

He also nailed it on Morbius during that hype train. His actual points are fair ones to consider too.

I still R2’d my Bill and am super happy with him. But it’s a fair thought process.

Also Enchantress looks mid to me. Those that master her may prove me wrong but that’s a lot of squeeze for moderate juice.

Enchantress is a utility queen though, no mystic has that much utility

No but I bet you’ll find a mystic that provides the needed utility better and faster in almost any circumstance and that I can imagine.

Plus her utility needs to be built up where others will likely just have the utility I need.

captain_rogers

It's not overhype, it's desperation. This year's been rough and we are ready to accept anything even if it's only "borderline" good. BRB is too new for us to decide, But it is obvious he will be nowhere near to the cosmic powerhouses. He is another good cosmic champ with unique utility and nice damage for long and short fights.

Emilia90

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

He also nailed it on Morbius during that hype train. His actual points are fair ones to consider too.

I still R2’d my Bill and am super happy with him. But it’s a fair thought process.

Also Enchantress looks mid to me. Those that master her may prove me wrong but that’s a lot of squeeze for moderate juice.

Enchantress is a utility queen though, no mystic has that much utility

No but I bet you’ll find a mystic that provides the needed utility better and faster in almost any circumstance and that I can imagine.

Plus her utility needs to be built up where others will likely just have the utility I need.

I think she’ll shine when we see an endgame serpent boss with a million + health and she would absolutely annihilate matchups like that. Whenever Necro part 2 is she would shine probably but we’ll see

EdisonLaw

captain_rogers said:

It's not overhype, it's desperation. This year's been rough and we are ready to accept anything even if it's only "borderline" good. BRB is too new for us to decide, But it is obvious he will be nowhere near to the cosmic powerhouses. He is another good cosmic champ with unique utility and nice damage for long and short fights.

Also look at Deathless Vision, his damage may be slightly higher than the Visions we have but his power drain is weaker, and even then his damage really isn’t enough

ItsClobberinTime

HassamaMama said:

My thing is everything he is saying is so niche - looking for a champ to counter everything is just not how this game should work.

Would you use Shuri against shock immunity? No. Torch against incinerate immunity? No. Any champ that can’t counter Miss against Miss? No.

Bill’s designed to be a high damage dealer with some niche utility of his own. Why is that not enough?

Because in a game full of Hulklings Scorpions Kates FAMs Sinisters and Kushalas, he's really not the God some people are making him out to be.

KT isn't saying he's bad, just that some have been overhyping BRB which is true.

BigBlueOx

.

Emilia90 said:

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

He also nailed it on Morbius during that hype train. His actual points are fair ones to consider too.

I still R2’d my Bill and am super happy with him. But it’s a fair thought process.

Also Enchantress looks mid to me. Those that master her may prove me wrong but that’s a lot of squeeze for moderate juice.

Enchantress is a utility queen though, no mystic has that much utility

No but I bet you’ll find a mystic that provides the needed utility better and faster in almost any circumstance and that I can imagine.

Plus her utility needs to be built up where others will likely just have the utility I need.

I think she’ll shine when we see an endgame serpent boss with a million + health and she would absolutely annihilate matchups like that. Whenever Necro part 2 is she would shine probably but we’ll see

Maybe. I’m not sold on her effectiveness vs him. But I hope you’re right.

And if she doesn’t work at least we can Wong it.

EdisonLaw

BigBlueOx said:

.

Emilia90 said:

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

BigBlueOx said:

EdisonLaw said:

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who said Enchantress is too complicated

https://youtu.be/Gct6q0CwKKg?si=OmcFqAROMyEKc9CL

He also nailed it on Morbius during that hype train. His actual points are fair ones to consider too.

I still R2’d my Bill and am super happy with him. But it’s a fair thought process.

Also Enchantress looks mid to me. Those that master her may prove me wrong but that’s a lot of squeeze for moderate juice.

Enchantress is a utility queen though, no mystic has that much utility

No but I bet you’ll find a mystic that provides the needed utility better and faster in almost any circumstance and that I can imagine.

Plus her utility needs to be built up where others will likely just have the utility I need.

I think she’ll shine when we see an endgame serpent boss with a million + health and she would absolutely annihilate matchups like that. Whenever Necro part 2 is she would shine probably but we’ll see

Maybe. I’m not sold on her effectiveness vs him. But I hope you’re right.

And if she doesn’t work at least we can Wong it.

Or right it

ItsClobberinTime

Emilia90 said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

I do think he's been a bit overhyped, don't get me wrong he's great and possibly the best attacker in terms of damage this year but some have been blowing things out of proportion lol almost as if he was at Hulkling level and although he is good, he's really not that good.

As for Enchantress, she is very complicated, I disagree with that being a bad thing but she is very complicated indeed. The DLL champ spotlight was 1:05 when most are just 30-40 minutes 💀

Yeah definitely not better than Hulkling for shorter fights from what I’ve seen. For longer fights, he has sustainable ramp so he’s definitely a god for that. I’d like to see more and I’m glad that we have a champ that does it all (short, medium, and long fights). Hulkling (in shorter matchups) simply has more versatility. I also think Hulkling is a timeless champ because of how universal his mechanics are

I saw a comment that I agreed with a lot and it’s essentially that Enchantress is like a console game character put into Mcoc. If you’ve ever played a fighting game they have the most complicated button inputs ever that you need to memorize and execute or just spam less effective basic attacks. She’s obviously not on that level but I think she’s the closest we’ve had and more of a memory test

BRB is definitely going to be a God for Necropolis, and I'm sure he's going to be the answer for some fights in the Summer of whatever lol but yeah he's not as much of a God for shorter fights, he's just good. White Tiger probably still has more damage for shorter fights and will be quicker but BRB is probably the second best BGs attacker this year so I'll take it.

It does feel a lot like MK's button combinations for the combos which can be very confusing until you memorize them completely, but I like that part a lot. Like BRB she's going to be great for long form content as well and probably a top defender for a good while, I just wish she was a bit more juiced for shorter fights.

captain_rogers

Unpopular opinion but all these "everest level healthpool" champs like northstar and enchantress are actually not useful for majority of players EVEN IN EVEREST CONTENT. I'm saying this because as per my understanding these champs needs like 2-3 minutes of ramp up before getting the damage going, so yeah these guys are naturally good at necro level fights. But one things devs forgot to consider is, players are more likely to die during the 3 min ramp, in long fights like necropolis. That's where champs like Aegon and kate shines in, as these champs have the damage right from the start, and Aegon's setup is persistent among fights. I don't think enchantress and northstar (and BRB) have persistent damage by nature, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tldr, The new champs who are "supposedly good" for everest content isn't actually the best option for long fights since the average player most likely die during the ramp and have to start the ramp all over again.

Emilia90

captain_rogers said:

Unpopular opinion but all these "everest level healthpool" champs like northstar and enchantress are actually not useful for majority of players EVEN IN EVEREST CONTENT. I'm saying this because as per my understanding these champs needs like 2-3 minutes of ramp up before getting the damage going, so yeah these guys are naturally good at necro level fights. But one things devs forgot to consider is, players are more likely to die during the 3 min ramp, in long fights like necropolis. That's where champs like Aegon and kate shines in, as these champs have the damage right from the start, and Aegon's setup is persistent among fights. I don't think enchantress and northstar (and BRB) have persistent damage by nature, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tldr, The new champs who are "supposedly good" for everest content isn't actually the best option for long fights since the average player most likely die during the ramp and have to start the ramp all over again.

Enchantress’s whole thing is that she’s practically unkillable with the spells up and she’ll be doing big damage. She’s not like northstar at all imo cause she has like 50 safety nets and if you set those up first you’re good to go. You lose your ramp with Kate if you die too and she has a lot of safety as well so I disagree. Especially if we do end up seeing massive health pool maestro’s and serpents she’ll be the better option from what I see

She’s also a 5/5 defender so bg champ regardless

EdisonLaw

captain_rogers said:

Unpopular opinion but all these "everest level healthpool" champs like northstar and enchantress are actually not useful for majority of players EVEN IN EVEREST CONTENT. I'm saying this because as per my understanding these champs needs like 2-3 minutes of ramp up before getting the damage going, so yeah these guys are naturally good at necro level fights. But one things devs forgot to consider is, players are more likely to die during the 3 min ramp, in long fights like necropolis. That's where champs like Aegon and kate shines in, as these champs have the damage right from the start, and Aegon's setup is persistent among fights. I don't think enchantress and northstar (and BRB) have persistent damage by nature, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tldr, The new champs who are "supposedly good" for everest content isn't actually the best option for long fights since the average player most likely die during the ramp and have to start the ramp all over again.

Enchantress is gonna be a lot safer compared to Aegon, if she’s fully ramped

EdisonLaw

Emilia90 said:

captain_rogers said:

Unpopular opinion but all these "everest level healthpool" champs like northstar and enchantress are actually not useful for majority of players EVEN IN EVEREST CONTENT. I'm saying this because as per my understanding these champs needs like 2-3 minutes of ramp up before getting the damage going, so yeah these guys are naturally good at necro level fights. But one things devs forgot to consider is, players are more likely to die during the 3 min ramp, in long fights like necropolis. That's where champs like Aegon and kate shines in, as these champs have the damage right from the start, and Aegon's setup is persistent among fights. I don't think enchantress and northstar (and BRB) have persistent damage by nature, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tldr, The new champs who are "supposedly good" for everest content isn't actually the best option for long fights since the average player most likely die during the ramp and have to start the ramp all over again.

Enchantress’s whole thing is that she’s practically unkillable with the spells up and she’ll be doing big damage. She’s not like northstar at all imo cause she has like 50 safety nets and if you set those up first you’re good to go. You lose your ramp with Kate if you die too and she has a lot of safety as well so I disagree. Especially if we do end up seeing massive health pool maestro’s and serpents she’ll be the better option from what I see

She’s also a 5/5 defender so bg champ regardless

Yeah we might see a Serpent or Maestro SoS fight in the future

NONYABIZZ

captain_rogers said:

Unpopular opinion but all these "everest level healthpool" champs like northstar and enchantress are actually not useful for majority of players EVEN IN EVEREST CONTENT. I'm saying this because as per my understanding these champs needs like 2-3 minutes of ramp up before getting the damage going, so yeah these guys are naturally good at necro level fights. But one things devs forgot to consider is, players are more likely to die during the 3 min ramp, in long fights like necropolis. That's where champs like Aegon and kate shines in, as these champs have the damage right from the start, and Aegon's setup is persistent among fights. I don't think enchantress and northstar (and BRB) have persistent damage by nature, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tldr, The new champs who are "supposedly good" for everest content isn't actually the best option for long fights since the average player most likely die during the ramp and have to start the ramp all over again.

BRB has good damage from the start and will definitely be better than the other 2
I definitely agree with everything else you said

captain_rogers

Emilia90 said:

captain_rogers said:

Unpopular opinion but all these "everest level healthpool" champs like northstar and enchantress are actually not useful for majority of players EVEN IN EVEREST CONTENT. I'm saying this because as per my understanding these champs needs like 2-3 minutes of ramp up before getting the damage going, so yeah these guys are naturally good at necro level fights. But one things devs forgot to consider is, players are more likely to die during the 3 min ramp, in long fights like necropolis. That's where champs like Aegon and kate shines in, as these champs have the damage right from the start, and Aegon's setup is persistent among fights. I don't think enchantress and northstar (and BRB) have persistent damage by nature, Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tldr, The new champs who are "supposedly good" for everest content isn't actually the best option for long fights since the average player most likely die during the ramp and have to start the ramp all over again.

Enchantress’s whole thing is that she’s practically unkillable with the spells up and she’ll be doing big damage. She’s not like northstar at all imo cause she has like 50 safety nets and if you set those up first you’re good to go. You lose your ramp with Kate if you die too and she has a lot of safety as well so I disagree. Especially if we do end up seeing massive health pool maestro’s and serpents she’ll be the better option from what I see

She’s also a 5/5 defender so bg champ regardless

Yeah kate can lose her damage if you die but you can start with coldsnaps and few sp1 to deal good damage until you set up completely, i.e., you're doing good damage even while ramping up.

It's nice to know enchantress has safety nets. Enchantress is definitely very relevant just for how cool she is(and she's also good in defense). My comment is not targeted on her or anyone else, I just don't agree with how kabam design champs who excel in long fights. I personally believe champs who are designed for contents like necro should have persistent ramp like Aegon, or have the damage right from the start like kate. It just sucks to ramp up and die before having the payoff for the ramp.