They aren't in a death spiral, But is definitely working in a tight situation. The new contents are fire, but We are getting a lot of bugs these days. Also the lack of communication is a major issue. If this situation continues for a long time, then it may start the downfall of this game.
But atm, the game is far from dying.
That’s generally how the death spiral starts . Kabam has been pushing pay for play way harder than ever before , force fed us those relics with the desperate desire to squeeze out more money , the constant cosmetic change gets rather then maintaining the game better and the constant bugs seem to indicate that they are probably trying to downsize the staff as well . Of course it’s still far from dying , death spirals can take years but it just this weird feeling that things are steadily getting worse and worse
Not that it’s a big deal . After all there would be some new version of the game even after this fails same way MCOC was just a new version of the Facebook game
Won’t bother responding to most of the other responses since they are clearly stans for corporations and talking to people like this is pointless and cusses way too much second hang embarrassment
You won't bother because you don't actually have answers or a way to back up your claims. You responded to the one person that semi agrees to you and then you continued spewing BS conspiracies.
What content is pay to play? Don't use the relics. Or don't invest in them. They are completely optional.
Your tinfoil is on too tight.
Many node even in EQ require relics to gain power, is it optional? Or are you gonna say oh yeah it’s optional because you don’t need to play this game anw lol
I was never a fan of relics from the beginning. I still don't care much for them. However, Kabam has yet to require relics in any content. There's plenty of ways where relics gain you a special benefit, like extending fights in Necro, but they still aren't required there. The nodes you're talking about are the harshest thing involving relics, yet lacking a relic still does not prevent you from doing the fight.
The Cerastes fight does require a relic tbf. You can still do it without but it will take a lot longer
They aren't in a death spiral, But is definitely working in a tight situation. The new contents are fire, but We are getting a lot of bugs these days. Also the lack of communication is a major issue. If this situation continues for a long time, then it may start the downfall of this game.
But atm, the game is far from dying.
That’s generally how the death spiral starts . Kabam has been pushing pay for play way harder than ever before , force fed us those relics with the desperate desire to squeeze out more money , the constant cosmetic change gets rather then maintaining the game better and the constant bugs seem to indicate that they are probably trying to downsize the staff as well . Of course it’s still far from dying , death spirals can take years but it just this weird feeling that things are steadily getting worse and worse
Not that it’s a big deal . After all there would be some new version of the game even after this fails same way MCOC was just a new version of the Facebook game
Won’t bother responding to most of the other responses since they are clearly stans for corporations and talking to people like this is pointless and cusses way too much second hang embarrassment
I think when you start by calling the actions of the developers “desperate” and follow that up by calling the game “pay to play” when you can get pretty much everything for free and most players have been commenting on how easy it has been to get in game resource rewards and even premium currency (units) lately, hit them for using Relics to squeeze more revenue out of the players when they’ve announced they are pausing the relic release schedule, and then call MCOC just a new version of a Facebook game, I think questioning the credibility of other posters is not something you have a leg to stand on.
I’ve played a lot off online games, many right to their shutdown. I know what a death spiral looks like, and I know all the ways a game can end that aren’t death spirals as well. I’ve even seen what shutdowns look like from the inside. With all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. There are specific signs to look for when a game is either drifting towards maintenance mode or being driven into a death spiral. MCOC currently exhibits none of them.
Let’s talk turkey, because it is so easy for people to just spout nonsense without backing it up, as if every random opinion is supposed to matter. When looking at an online game to see if it exhibits symptoms that threaten its long term viability, what should we look for.
1. Materially declining revenue. MCOC’s revenue has declined over the years, but for this to be significant enough to threaten its viability, that revenue loss must either threaten its net profitability relative to the costs of operation, or drop below the point where it is strategically significant to its owner/operator. MCOC still generates a ton of revenue, clearly far above its operating costs (there’s no way Netmarble is spending anywhere near $200 million USD to operate MCOC) and is still one of the top revenue sources for Netmarble. There is no threat of Netmarble deciding to shut down MCOC on revenue grounds.
2. Voluntary senior developer exodus. Game studios turn over staff constantly, for various reasons. We don’t even hear about it most of the time. So when we do hear about it, people often inflate the importance of those departures relative to the overall health of the game. What would signal a potential problem is when there is a rapid or simultaneous exodus of the senior producers, designers, or development staff. They are the ones in the best position to know if things don’t look healthy for the game and start thinking about a career change, and also the most employable elsewhere. I’ve seen no evidence of such a wave of departures that would indicate to me a lack of faith in the game from its own high level staff.
3. Consistent declining player base. There has been no evidence that the player base has had a sustained decline significantly beyond the Covid boom years. All available evidence from player facing participatory data points suggests either a stable or possibly tiny trickle of loss of players, and Kabam recently stated that even this has been reversed with increases in active players recently. One could argue that Kabam is just lying to cover player losses, but the levels of players in the game doesn’t support that, and I personally find Kabam Crashed to be a straight shooter about the state of the game, to the extent he can discuss internal details at all. I find him credible, and anyone who finds my judgment to be credible should factor that into assessing his credibility. If you think I’m a shill and Crashed is a mouthpiece and nothing Kabam says can be trusted, then that’s your prerogative but I question the judgment of a person willing to give time and money to a game and company they judge in that way.
4. Lack of investment in long term game development. Ironically, it is the “desperate” development efforts that contradict the notion that the game is spiraling downward. A game that has shifted from active development to one of milking its existing players starts to shift its resources from building things that will have long term benefits and will attract newer players to things designed to offer shiny things to its veteran players who will stick around to the end. MCOC isn’t doing that. You do not invest in a new game mode like Battlegrounds if you don’t think the game has a future. You don’t invest in the technology to create Realm events if you don’t think the game has a future. You don’t refactor and simplify the early game for new players if you don’t think the game isn’t growing. You don’t update game UI interfaces if you think the only players who will be playing your game already know how to do everything.
On stream Kabam Crashed said something that echoed what I have long said about how this game monetizes itself, and how any smart game would. He said, to paraphrase, that his goal (as one of the people in charge of how the game monetizes itself) was to make his target revenue while selling as little stuff as possible. That’s what you do when you want to keep the game running as long as possible. That’s what you do when you think the game has a future, and you want to keep the game as healthy as possible. That’s not what you do when you want to just make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, because there is no tomorrow. And every time someone complains about how “trash” the latest cash offer is, they validate the credibility of that statement.
A game spiraling downward and trying to make as much money as possible floods the game with twenty dollar offers, hoping to pull as much money as possible out of as many pockets as possible. A game that thinks it is going to be around for a long time holds back and tries to sell as little as possible and tries to convince as many whales as possible to support the game by buying what they do sell, so that as much of the economic budget can go towards long term in-game player rewards. They don’t sell it today, so tomorrow’s players can earn it in the game.
I’ve been playing online games for over twenty years. I’ve seen games launch, and I’ve seen them die. And when they are dying, I’ve never been the one to sugar coat it publicly. If someone wants to bet me that MCOC will still be here in five years, or even ten, I’ll take that bet now. Five years, I’d say that’s a 95% bet. Ten years, 75%.
It just seems weird how desperately they are pushing new parts of the game that no one really cares about . Add in the new designs to make it look refresh , the increasing number of bugs and it just seems like the typical death spiral caused by investors trying to squeeze companies all they are worth
Tell me a game u are playing for 5+ years daily??
How much delusion u have ??😂 - 9.1 everyone cares - SOS everyone cares - deathless champs everyone cares - BGs everyone cares(we have only BG focus ally) - new design was there just lauch for some then they removed it(I had it so nothing new )
If u launch or release 100 features & u get 5-10 bugs that's a great thing % wise.
The game isn’t close to dying but not everyone cares about those things.
They aren't in a death spiral, But is definitely working in a tight situation. The new contents are fire, but We are getting a lot of bugs these days. Also the lack of communication is a major issue. If this situation continues for a long time, then it may start the downfall of this game.
But atm, the game is far from dying.
That’s generally how the death spiral starts . Kabam has been pushing pay for play way harder than ever before , force fed us those relics with the desperate desire to squeeze out more money , the constant cosmetic change gets rather then maintaining the game better and the constant bugs seem to indicate that they are probably trying to downsize the staff as well . Of course it’s still far from dying , death spirals can take years but it just this weird feeling that things are steadily getting worse and worse
Not that it’s a big deal . After all there would be some new version of the game even after this fails same way MCOC was just a new version of the Facebook game
Won’t bother responding to most of the other responses since they are clearly stans for corporations and talking to people like this is pointless and cusses way too much second hang embarrassment
I LOL'd. I'll make this simple.
1) There is no Kabam without MCOC.
2) There can be an "MCOC" outside of Kabam. A lot of terrible decisions would have to be made before this happens, of course.
3) If MCOC shuts down it's because King Arthur: Legends Rise finally torpedoes Kabam as a company and it's not sold for parts by Netmarble, who have also been liquidating holdings for "plans to improve fiscal stability." Is there a variant universe where Netmarble divests from Kabam and it's MCOC and Mirrorverse end up in the hands of Epic? Hmmmmm.
In short, a buggy MCOC won't ever be the reason for Kabam sunsetting, it'll be that in the 8 years since Netmarble picked it up for $800 million it's had exactly ONE hit game.
For transparency, my portfolio includes 50 shares of Netmarble that's worth way less now than when I bought it in 2018.
the new UI will take some time to get used to but to say that they're "pushing new parts of the game that nobody cares about" is so ridiculous. in the last 2-3 years and especially in the last year they've solved almost every QOL problem that we ever complained about.
It just seems weird how desperately they are pushing new parts of the game that no one really cares about . Add in the new designs to make it look refresh , the increasing number of bugs and it just seems like the typical death spiral caused by investors trying to squeeze companies all they are worth
Comments
I’ve played a lot off online games, many right to their shutdown. I know what a death spiral looks like, and I know all the ways a game can end that aren’t death spirals as well. I’ve even seen what shutdowns look like from the inside. With all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. There are specific signs to look for when a game is either drifting towards maintenance mode or being driven into a death spiral. MCOC currently exhibits none of them.
Let’s talk turkey, because it is so easy for people to just spout nonsense without backing it up, as if every random opinion is supposed to matter. When looking at an online game to see if it exhibits symptoms that threaten its long term viability, what should we look for.
1. Materially declining revenue. MCOC’s revenue has declined over the years, but for this to be significant enough to threaten its viability, that revenue loss must either threaten its net profitability relative to the costs of operation, or drop below the point where it is strategically significant to its owner/operator. MCOC still generates a ton of revenue, clearly far above its operating costs (there’s no way Netmarble is spending anywhere near $200 million USD to operate MCOC) and is still one of the top revenue sources for Netmarble. There is no threat of Netmarble deciding to shut down MCOC on revenue grounds.
2. Voluntary senior developer exodus. Game studios turn over staff constantly, for various reasons. We don’t even hear about it most of the time. So when we do hear about it, people often inflate the importance of those departures relative to the overall health of the game. What would signal a potential problem is when there is a rapid or simultaneous exodus of the senior producers, designers, or development staff. They are the ones in the best position to know if things don’t look healthy for the game and start thinking about a career change, and also the most employable elsewhere. I’ve seen no evidence of such a wave of departures that would indicate to me a lack of faith in the game from its own high level staff.
3. Consistent declining player base. There has been no evidence that the player base has had a sustained decline significantly beyond the Covid boom years. All available evidence from player facing participatory data points suggests either a stable or possibly tiny trickle of loss of players, and Kabam recently stated that even this has been reversed with increases in active players recently. One could argue that Kabam is just lying to cover player losses, but the levels of players in the game doesn’t support that, and I personally find Kabam Crashed to be a straight shooter about the state of the game, to the extent he can discuss internal details at all. I find him credible, and anyone who finds my judgment to be credible should factor that into assessing his credibility. If you think I’m a shill and Crashed is a mouthpiece and nothing Kabam says can be trusted, then that’s your prerogative but I question the judgment of a person willing to give time and money to a game and company they judge in that way.
4. Lack of investment in long term game development. Ironically, it is the “desperate” development efforts that contradict the notion that the game is spiraling downward. A game that has shifted from active development to one of milking its existing players starts to shift its resources from building things that will have long term benefits and will attract newer players to things designed to offer shiny things to its veteran players who will stick around to the end. MCOC isn’t doing that. You do not invest in a new game mode like Battlegrounds if you don’t think the game has a future. You don’t invest in the technology to create Realm events if you don’t think the game has a future. You don’t refactor and simplify the early game for new players if you don’t think the game isn’t growing. You don’t update game UI interfaces if you think the only players who will be playing your game already know how to do everything.
On stream Kabam Crashed said something that echoed what I have long said about how this game monetizes itself, and how any smart game would. He said, to paraphrase, that his goal (as one of the people in charge of how the game monetizes itself) was to make his target revenue while selling as little stuff as possible. That’s what you do when you want to keep the game running as long as possible. That’s what you do when you think the game has a future, and you want to keep the game as healthy as possible. That’s not what you do when you want to just make as much money as possible as quickly as possible, because there is no tomorrow. And every time someone complains about how “trash” the latest cash offer is, they validate the credibility of that statement.
A game spiraling downward and trying to make as much money as possible floods the game with twenty dollar offers, hoping to pull as much money as possible out of as many pockets as possible. A game that thinks it is going to be around for a long time holds back and tries to sell as little as possible and tries to convince as many whales as possible to support the game by buying what they do sell, so that as much of the economic budget can go towards long term in-game player rewards. They don’t sell it today, so tomorrow’s players can earn it in the game.
I’ve been playing online games for over twenty years. I’ve seen games launch, and I’ve seen them die. And when they are dying, I’ve never been the one to sugar coat it publicly. If someone wants to bet me that MCOC will still be here in five years, or even ten, I’ll take that bet now. Five years, I’d say that’s a 95% bet. Ten years, 75%.
1) There is no Kabam without MCOC.
2) There can be an "MCOC" outside of Kabam. A lot of terrible decisions would have to be made before this happens, of course.
3) If MCOC shuts down it's because King Arthur: Legends Rise finally torpedoes Kabam as a company and it's not sold for parts by Netmarble, who have also been liquidating holdings for "plans to improve fiscal stability." Is there a variant universe where Netmarble divests from Kabam and it's MCOC and Mirrorverse end up in the hands of Epic? Hmmmmm.
In short, a buggy MCOC won't ever be the reason for Kabam sunsetting, it'll be that in the 8 years since Netmarble picked it up for $800 million it's had exactly ONE hit game.
For transparency, my portfolio includes 50 shares of Netmarble that's worth way less now than when I bought it in 2018.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/353074/kabam-appreciation-post#latest
No ads and despite what others say, and I have also said in the past, it is not pay to play or pay to “win”.
If it went away for whatever reason, it would suck.