Deep Dive: Spiral

EdisonLaw

https://youtu.be/8j6PC416B_g?si=pi4XrhZDankwHX1w

She looks OP, thoughts?

captain_rogers

She looks good. More of a serpent counter, but does other comics pretty well it seems. Definitely a cool champ.

But I really want a solid nullify/neutralize champ lol it's been a long time they released solid buff control champ I hope next mystic have solid nullify/stagger/neutralize mechanics.

EdisonLaw

Those dancing blades, I could see those being implemented into other champions as well, such as Quasar or other champs who utilise energy constructs

Squidopus

Destroyer should’ve been able to destroy death immunity buffs first.

Minor salt aside, she looks neat. A complete Serpent counter is frankly enough on its own to make her worthwhile considering Serpent’s status as the undisputed best defender and really the only defender that can “guarantee” you wins in bg, but she looks like she can do enough in other matchups too. Counters things like unblockable buffs and Maestro’s glancing, and has effectively triple immunities with her sig ability. Some defensive value too, the dancing blades triggering when struck sounds like a recipe for major annoyance. Only caveat seems to be her skill cap with the whole alternating actions thing, but I’m sure people will crack her play style soon enough.

Also not really on the subject but dang that 60 FPS looks nice, let’s hope it isn’t laggy as hell when it gets into our hands.

Terminatrix

EdisonLaw said:

https://youtu.be/8j6PC416B_g?si=pi4XrhZDankwHX1w

She looks OP, thoughts?

So far, she definitely looks like an OP and unique attacker, and a champ a lot of players will chase, including myself lol. Utility is solid. Destroying immortality and indestructible is wild lol. She's going to be feasting on buff heavy champs 😂

I love that her animations are just so effortless and graceful, some resembling that of a figure skater, exactly what I imagined they'd be for this game. (I'd love to know what Kabam's real strategy and inspiration was for that).

One question though: How is she on defense? Was that mentioned and I missed it?

captain_rogers

Terminatrix said:

EdisonLaw said:

https://youtu.be/8j6PC416B_g?si=pi4XrhZDankwHX1w

She looks OP, thoughts?

So far, she definitely looks like an OP and unique attacker, and a champ a lot of players will chase, including myself lol. Utility is solid. Destroying immortality and indestructible is wild lol. She's going to be feasting on buff heavy champs 😂

I love that her animations are just so effortless and graceful, some resembling that of a figure skater, exactly what I imagined they'd be for this game. (I'd love to know what Kabam's real strategy and inspiration was for that).

One question though: How is she on defense? Was that mentioned and I missed it?

She is decent is defense. After throwing a special, you can only to MLM combos for 10 secs until dancing blades go down. And her specials look tough to dodge. Okayish defender, I'll say close to shuri level.

captain_rogers

Ok she has a good skill cap where you gotta get 15 fervors within 13 secs for optimal gameplay. So she would be balanced, not broken.

EdisonLaw

Squidopus said:

Destroyer should’ve been able to destroy death immunity buffs first.

Minor salt aside, she looks neat. A complete Serpent counter is frankly enough on its own to make her worthwhile considering Serpent’s status as the undisputed best defender and really the only defender that can “guarantee” you wins in bg, but she looks like she can do enough in other matchups too. Counters things like unblockable buffs and Maestro’s glancing, and has effectively triple immunities with her sig ability. Some defensive value too, the dancing blades triggering when struck sounds like a recipe for major annoyance. Only caveat seems to be her skill cap with the whole alternating actions thing, but I’m sure people will crack her play style soon enough.

Also not really on the subject but dang that 60 FPS looks nice, let’s hope it isn’t laggy as hell when it gets into our hands.

She doesn't look that difficult to play, you could just do MLM, LML, MLLL, MLLM combos and so on.
She's gonna be annoying on stun immunity nodes as her blades activate if she is struck with a second light if not stunned.

Usagicassidy

captain_rogers said:

But I really want a solid nullify/neutralize champ lol it's been a long time they released solid buff control champ I hope next mystic have solid nullify/stagger/neutralize mechanics.

100% - it's been far too long.

EdisonLaw

Usagicassidy said:

captain_rogers said:

But I really want a solid nullify/neutralize champ lol it's been a long time they released solid buff control champ I hope next mystic have solid nullify/stagger/neutralize mechanics.

100% - it's been far too long.

The last one was Kushala

captain_rogers

Usagicassidy said:

captain_rogers said:

But I really want a solid nullify/neutralize champ lol it's been a long time they released solid buff control champ I hope next mystic have solid nullify/stagger/neutralize mechanics.

100% - it's been far too long.

Yes recently when fighting that vox on bounty missions made me realise these. None of these new gimmick mystics work well against him. Sometimes you just need those simple stagger and neutralize effects.

HungaryHippo

1. Make a problem
2. Call it balanced
3. Sell the solution
4. ???
5. Profit.

Nemesis_17

Am I the only one annoyed at how blatant this is? Lol.

At least she still looks like she’ll be decent outside of her 1 obvious selling point matchup

Kappa2g

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

EdisonLaw

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

#MilkTheWhales

captain_rogers

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

Terminatrix

captain_rogers said:

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

This has been one of their diabolical, evil genius "strategies" for a while lol

EdisonLaw

Terminatrix said:

captain_rogers said:

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

This has been one of their diabolical, evil genius "strategies" for a while lol

Same cycle over and over again. Just like what happned with Peni Parker, Mephisto, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.

Terminatrix

EdisonLaw said:

Terminatrix said:

captain_rogers said:

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

This has been one of their diabolical, evil genius "strategies" for a while lol

Same cycle over and over again. Just like what happned with Peni Parker, Mephisto, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.

Lol yup. And it's getting worse because of Battlegrounds. Kabam isn't going to nerf any tough defenders, they're just going to create an attacker to counter them. Gotta have a counter that can destroy annoying defenders in 2.2 seconds 😂

Nemesis_17

EdisonLaw said:

Terminatrix said:

captain_rogers said:

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

This has been one of their diabolical, evil genius "strategies" for a while lol

Same cycle over and over again. Just like what happned with Peni Parker, Mephisto, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.

Unfortunately though this will only lead to matches becoming increasingly draft dependent if they continue on this path with defenders. I miss the days when domino was my biggest fear in bgs.

If too much rng gets introduced the game mode will start to fall off even more in popularity and at the competitive levels

EdisonLaw

Nemesis_17 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Terminatrix said:

captain_rogers said:

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

This has been one of their diabolical, evil genius "strategies" for a while lol

Same cycle over and over again. Just like what happned with Peni Parker, Mephisto, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.

Unfortunately though this will only lead to matches becoming increasingly draft dependent if they continue on this path with defenders. I miss the days when domino was my biggest fear in bgs.

If too much rng gets introduced the game mode will start to fall off even more in popularity and at the competitive levels

Yeah they need to calm down with defenders like this. I like defenders like Onslaught and Photon, where they are challenging yes but they can be taken with anyone if the player has the skill.

Nemesis_17

EdisonLaw said:

Nemesis_17 said:

EdisonLaw said:

Terminatrix said:

captain_rogers said:

Kappa2g said:

So the refusal to properly re-balance Serpent was so Kabam could release a direct counter/solution down the line, how is this remotely healthy game balance?

First randomly spam defensive abilities on a champ then randomly spam counter abilities on a attack champ.

Create a problem and sell the solution, But here they sell both the problem and solution lol.

This has been one of their diabolical, evil genius "strategies" for a while lol

Same cycle over and over again. Just like what happned with Peni Parker, Mephisto, Iron Man Infinity War, etc.

Unfortunately though this will only lead to matches becoming increasingly draft dependent if they continue on this path with defenders. I miss the days when domino was my biggest fear in bgs.

If too much rng gets introduced the game mode will start to fall off even more in popularity and at the competitive levels

Yeah they need to calm down with defenders like this. I like defenders like Onslaught and Photon, where they are challenging yes but they can be taken with anyone if the player has the skill.

Precisely. Both of those defenders have rpg elements that can be made easier by bringing a counter but neither of them straight up mandate that you have one. There’s some nuance there for skill expression that simply isn’t present against Serpent & bullseye.

altavista

EdisonLaw said:

https://youtu.be/8j6PC416B_g?si=pi4XrhZDankwHX1w

She looks OP, thoughts?

She looks great… for other players.

For me, I don’t think i’ll get the handle on alternating attacks (its like having the mix master node active as part of her kit, and I screw up that node decently often). Additionally, there’s nothing in her kit that manipulates enemy AI, so tough luck when the opponent just decides to turtle up.

Dancing blades is such a cool mechanic. Hope to see it appear in another champion as well.

NONYABIZZ

All of a sudden y'all like photon now like y'all weren't begging kabam to nerf her when she newly came out. And saying her undexable specials were "UNHEALTHY" for the game.
As if y'all weren't also complaining about onslaughts unavoidable damage.
But now they're just "challenging" and okay???

Y'all were saying the same thing bout
bullseye and his INSANE block pen, instant bleeds and LONG ASS killer instinct but up to a few months ago I started seeing forum users saying he's "OKAY" and can be taken with bleed immunes during the time that serpent rebalancing info was released and people were comparing serpent to bullseye It really pissed me off when y'all try to act like these defenders are fine when a more difficult one comes along. Bullseye IS NOT EASY AT ALL.


Also, I know I'm in the minority but, I really don't see anything wrong with kabam capitalizing off counters to terrible defenders. Every champion has to bring in their fair amount of money and have something that people who spend money want. Each champion must be unique in some way or have something captivating that attracts spenders. In this case, a counter to a tough defender.

I do agree serpent should've been nerfed and is definitely BROKEN. His kit has TOOO MUCH going on but if there's an opportunity to make money of a counter then what's the problem???
CLASSIC SMART BUSINESS MOVE. Can't hate innovative entrepreneurs for making INNOVATIVE DECISIONS.

This game doesn't run off love, affection and online support.
I also really dislike the VOCAL "F2P" keyboard warrior players spamming the "create the problem/disease, sell the cure/solution" on every defender/counter post. YOU LITERALLY DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE GAME. Stop trying to make people who spend feel guilty for purchasing what they feel interested in.

Also the ENTITLED F2P players complaining and demanding to get the same rewards as frequent spenders. IF IM READY TO DROP THAT LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY I BETTER GET MY WORTH.

This game is one of the most F2P friendly games I've ever played and kabam have been SO GENEROUS with the rewards meaning a F2P can progress very quickly and reach end game player status quite easily and y'all are not going to pretend like they haven't.

This game runs off money. LET the spenders spend and get their money's worth and let the company MAKE MONEY and keep the game running without feeling entitled and like you were robbed.
Thank you very much for this long read.

WednesdayLength

EdisonLaw said:

Usagicassidy said:

captain_rogers said:

But I really want a solid nullify/neutralize champ lol it's been a long time they released solid buff control champ I hope next mystic have solid nullify/stagger/neutralize mechanics.

100% - it's been far too long.

The last one was Kushala

Enchantress has solid nullify

EdisonLaw

altavista said:

EdisonLaw said:

https://youtu.be/8j6PC416B_g?si=pi4XrhZDankwHX1w

She looks OP, thoughts?

She looks great… for other players.

For me, I don’t think i’ll get the handle on alternating attacks (its like having the mix master node active as part of her kit, and I screw up that node decently often). Additionally, there’s nothing in her kit that manipulates enemy AI, so tough luck when the opponent just decides to turtle up.

Dancing blades is such a cool mechanic. Hope to see it appear in another champion as well.

You can just parry and alternate your combos, no need to intercept if there's no stun immunity or limber nodes

Speaking of her dancing blades, will she also be a good Domino counter? She'll be able to dex anything with the blades active, including Dom's unlucky. Sadly she won't work for photon because she's science, but makes sense

EdisonLaw

WednesdayLength said:

EdisonLaw said:

Usagicassidy said:

captain_rogers said:

But I really want a solid nullify/neutralize champ lol it's been a long time they released solid buff control champ I hope next mystic have solid nullify/stagger/neutralize mechanics.

100% - it's been far too long.

The last one was Kushala

Enchantress has solid nullify

Yeah true plus neutralize and atrophy but you aren't gonna be using her in BGs offense. She's a questing champ on offense.

startropics

Nemesis_17 said:

Am I the only one annoyed at how blatant this is? Lol.

yes and no.

the uncomfortable feeling we have now is a feature, not a bug. she's a chase champ now and it's how these games work.

Nemesis_17

startropics said:

Nemesis_17 said:

Am I the only one annoyed at how blatant this is? Lol.

yes and no.

the uncomfortable feeling we have now is a feature, not a bug. she's a chase champ now and it's how these games work.

Was I implying it was a bug? Because if so I definitely didn’t mean to, this clearly is a business tactic. Selling a hard counter to a problematic defender wouldn’t be an issue if the defender was actually even remotely close to balanced, but that’s not the case here.

Had serpent been rebalanced to a fair level, where he was still the top defender in the game but not dumb op, would spiral sales really have decreased by that much? By a little bit maybe, but it’s a worth it price for the overall health of the game.

And if they really wanted to cash out on every new champ they wouldn’t have released 6 months of mostly back to back meh champs that only a niche audience will be interested in. Hard to justifying leaving one champ as op so a couple pre release bundles can sell when they could’ve just released fair but appealing champs right from the start.

HungaryHippo

NONYABIZZ said:

All of a sudden y'all like photon now like y'all weren't begging kabam to nerf her when she newly came out. And saying her undexable specials were "UNHEALTHY" for the game.
As if y'all weren't also complaining about onslaughts unavoidable damage.
But now they're just "challenging" and okay???

Y'all were saying the same thing bout
bullseye and his INSANE block pen, instant bleeds and LONG ASS killer instinct but up to a few months ago I started seeing forum users saying he's "OKAY" and can be taken with bleed immunes during the time that serpent rebalancing info was released and people were comparing serpent to bullseye It really pissed me off when y'all try to act like these defenders are fine when a more difficult one comes along. Bullseye IS NOT EASY AT ALL.


Also, I know I'm in the minority but, I really don't see anything wrong with kabam capitalizing off counters to terrible defenders. Every champion has to bring in their fair amount of money and have something that people who spend money want. Each champion must be unique in some way or have something captivating that attracts spenders. In this case, a counter to a tough defender.

I do agree serpent should've been nerfed and is definitely BROKEN. His kit has TOOO MUCH going on but if there's an opportunity to make money of a counter then what's the problem???
CLASSIC SMART BUSINESS MOVE. Can't hate innovative entrepreneurs for making INNOVATIVE DECISIONS.

This game doesn't run off love, affection and online support.
I also really dislike the VOCAL "F2P" keyboard warrior players spamming the "create the problem/disease, sell the cure/solution" on every defender/counter post. YOU LITERALLY DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE GAME. Stop trying to make people who spend feel guilty for purchasing what they feel interested in.

Also the ENTITLED F2P players complaining and demanding to get the same rewards as frequent spenders. IF IM READY TO DROP THAT LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY I BETTER GET MY WORTH.

This game is one of the most F2P friendly games I've ever played and kabam have been SO GENEROUS with the rewards meaning a F2P can progress very quickly and reach end game player status quite easily and y'all are not going to pretend like they haven't.

This game runs off money. LET the spenders spend and get their money's worth and let the company MAKE MONEY and keep the game running without feeling entitled and like you were robbed.
Thank you very much for this long read.

As someone who posted that, I’ve got a 27k, 6.7mil main account. What’s yours?

Nemesis_17

NONYABIZZ said:

All of a sudden y'all like photon now like y'all weren't begging kabam to nerf her when she newly came out. And saying her undexable specials were "UNHEALTHY" for the game.
As if y'all weren't also complaining about onslaughts unavoidable damage.
But now they're just "challenging" and okay???

Y'all were saying the same thing bout
bullseye and his INSANE block pen, instant bleeds and LONG ASS killer instinct but up to a few months ago I started seeing forum users saying he's "OKAY" and can be taken with bleed immunes during the time that serpent rebalancing info was released and people were comparing serpent to bullseye It really pissed me off when y'all try to act like these defenders are fine when a more difficult one comes along. Bullseye IS NOT EASY AT ALL.


Also, I know I'm in the minority but, I really don't see anything wrong with kabam capitalizing off counters to terrible defenders. Every champion has to bring in their fair amount of money and have something that people who spend money want. Each champion must be unique in some way or have something captivating that attracts spenders. In this case, a counter to a tough defender.

I do agree serpent should've been nerfed and is definitely BROKEN. His kit has TOOO MUCH going on but if there's an opportunity to make money of a counter then what's the problem???
CLASSIC SMART BUSINESS MOVE. Can't hate innovative entrepreneurs for making INNOVATIVE DECISIONS.

This game doesn't run off love, affection and online support.
I also really dislike the VOCAL "F2P" keyboard warrior players spamming the "create the problem/disease, sell the cure/solution" on every defender/counter post. YOU LITERALLY DO NOTHING TO SUPPORT THE GAME. Stop trying to make people who spend feel guilty for purchasing what they feel interested in.

Also the ENTITLED F2P players complaining and demanding to get the same rewards as frequent spenders. IF IM READY TO DROP THAT LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY I BETTER GET MY WORTH.

This game is one of the most F2P friendly games I've ever played and kabam have been SO GENEROUS with the rewards meaning a F2P can progress very quickly and reach end game player status quite easily and y'all are not going to pretend like they haven't.

This game runs off money. LET the spenders spend and get their money's worth and let the company MAKE MONEY and keep the game running without feeling entitled and like you were robbed.
Thank you very much for this long read.

When Photon came out we were inexperienced in fighting her, and like any new defender there was a learning curve for the community to go through. Once that happened, we realized there actually was some skill expression when fighting her so the community calmed down.

With bullseye he was again scarier at release than he is now. However I do think it’s pretty silly to compare the community’s opinion on photon to their opinion on bullseye, because it’s not even close to the same. I still believe bullseye is stupid, and the only reason there are people who don’t mind him anymore is because he has a decent few counters and some of them can completely nuke him.

Now let’s look at serpent. He’s been out for 8 months, the community has had lots of time to learn him, and yet the vast majority of us still believe he’s overtuned. Why? Because he has neither of the things that I mentioned above. Very few counters, can’t be taken under 50s consistently, and no room for skill expression. Comparing him to bullseye or photon is laughably inaccurate, he’s far beyond the two of them.

As I mentioned in my previous post, selling counters to a tough defender would be completely fine if the defender was balanced, but he’s not. I can hate on this decision because it’s bad for game health and if they keep this up they’re going to hurt bgs & aw even more.

Also what the heck is this ftp bashing argument I keep seeing? Can someone who is ftp not give a legitimate criticism for the overall health of the game? Is their opinion immediately irrelevant because they don’t spend on the game? People like to say this game would die without spenders, but never mention that it would die without the ftp as well. Both groups are very important.

And again they don’t need to make bad decisions to give something for whales to spend on. There are creative healthy ways to make money too yk. If they keep this up they’re gonna lose more money than they gain in the long run by hurting the most popular game mode they have.