OP, you bring up some legitimate points but when you lead with an unnecessary dig at people, you are inviting those people to comment on your insult and not on the actual content of what you said. That being said, there’s been a lot of ridiculous behavior in this thread, which is too bad because there are some points worth addressing.
On the move away from rotating metas with a BGs season, I think that was a good thing. First, it gives more value to rank ups. It’s hard to justify a big rank up for content that’ll only be there for a week or two, but it’s much more palatable for something that’ll be present for a month. Plus, a substantial number of players tend to wait to push in BGs until the end of the season, so Kabam was just burning design space for too few players by rotating through the nodes in the way they were.
EQ is in desperate need of update, no argument. My personal thought has always been like a seasonal EQ that could be more endgame targeted. Bosses for it would be like our seasons of suffering, prizes could be on lanes, lanes could have varying difficulties and activate additional nodes on the boss. But there are lots of different ways to address this area of the game, and I’m sure they’ve got something cooking. They said they were aiming for an EQ update I believe in early 2025.
Non-Raid AQ is also just tragically boring. Way too repetitive. If glory weren’t such an indispensable resource, I’d have dispensed with playing the mode a long time ago. I don’t know how to fix it, but the repetitiveness of it is definitely the pain point.
War’s good, story’s good, Everest is good. They’ve been having some cool ideas and I like seeing how they’re developing. I think the game has also done a very good job in the last year of allowing F2P players access to the same toys that spenders have, with Necropolis being the only way to become Valiant for a meaningful period of time. I hope they continue that kind of rollout, with the first access to something new coming through endgame content before becoming available via spending.
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
Daily offers, flash offers, rewards in the contest in general are all part of the same budget. There's an overall budget and then it's broken down into sections like - Offers Content Special content like AoA or Everest Holiday events. Etc...
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
Managing a games economy is a precarious ordeal. 7*s are barely 1.5 years into their lifespan, we really don't need more shards than what we are getting atm. If you make 7*s easily attainable, then the chase item becomes rankups. Once r3s are more common, expect r4 7*s. Also expect healthpools and attack of content to rise as a direct result of that.
The biggest thing of injecting more rewards into the game means that spenders will need more rewards or else they won't spend. For example: say ftp players can only get 1 r3 in a month from content and spenders can get and additional r3 from spending money. That is a pretty good deal because you get r3s at twice the rate. If ftp get 2 r3s but spenders still get 1, less people will spend over time as they get all the r3s they want. If ftp got 3 r3s and spenders still only got 1, then I bet hardly anyone would be willing to drop more than $50 for their r3s. So if r3s are priced at $50, then that would mean spenders would need r3 gems at a minimum in the $50 bundles at cyber weekend. If r3 gems are in the $50, what could kabam sell at $100 that would be enticing to people? If 7* shards economy was great, then not those, maybe titan crystals but do you really want to be spending that much for a titan if you're getting 7*s quickly? The only logical choice would be t7b fragments which would ensure we get r4s by banquet.
Lots of work and effort go into managing the economy. The people working there know what they're doing and know what is healthy for the game. It takes a lot of time to update rewards for things like BGs and AW, but those are things that are likely looking at updating sometime soon.
The biggest thing of injecting more rewards into the game means that spenders will need more rewards or else they won't spend.
If I had to guess, I would say that was Crashed second biggest concern. His biggest one would be dilution, or what he might call “runway.” Every reward you inject into the game dilutes the value of that reward. If you don’t have any six star champs, six star crystals are very valuable to you. If you have a few, they are slightly less valuable. If you already have most of the six star champs, it is much less valuable, because you’re just adding another six star champ to the pile, if that. The first couple of rank 3s are a lot more valuable than the fiftieth and fifty-first.
Rewards are incentives. Incentives to play, to grind, to compete, and to spend. When you devalue your rewards, you reduce their ability to function as incentives. So all rewards have a useful lifespan as strong incentives before they become just part of the grind. So how quickly to let them flow into the game ironically speeds up the need to supersede them with better rewards, and thus cut short their lifetime as significant value things. When too many players have too many R3s, it’s time to introduce R4s, because R3s stop becoming interesting rewards at the top. This is of course highly oversimplified, because this kind of analysis happens at all progression tiers, but it is most obvious at the top.
This becomes most clear when we talk about champion rarity. The clock is already ticking on eight star champs. Anyone who thinks they won’t arrive is delusional. The slower 7s pour into the game and the slower rank up tiers are released into the game, the longer the lifespan of 7s will be before 8s arrive to begin the process of replacing them at the top of the game. If it happens too quickly, players won’t have much time to spend enjoying their seven star roster before they will have to start all over again building up their eight star roster. How fast this happens is probably the single biggest downward pressure on overall reward flow into the game.
I think Crashed might say Kabam is trying to preserve as much runway for the seven star rarity as possible, to delay the natural disruption of eights arriving. There’s no such thing as softening that transition with 7.4 star champs. It’s always a somewhat painful jump forward.
and don't forget 9.2, where if it is released as is... will have bosses bigger than Agony of Autumn fights, with some nodes equally challenging. If that difficulty doesn't scale back or rewards go up to r4 mats (by the time it is released, that is a distinct possibility), I'll probably delay doing it until either a new progression title / benefit warrants doing it, or I get the r4s to make the paths a little less tedious.
I just hope they revamp EQ, I really liked doing it, having the chance to use different champions and being a bit challenging was really nice. I even looked forward the monthly rewards but now rewards are completely useless for a valiant player, there are literally 0 things I need in EQ, except for paragon gauntlet, which is still somehow locked behind EQ exploration, then it's also way too easy and not challenging at all. It's kinda sad how kabam let this game mode die for higher progressions players
Lots of good discussion in here, and because its trending back towards respectful and constructive dialogue I'm gonna leave it open but please remember to avoid personal attacks and keep messages respectful even if you disagree. Its okay to be upset with the game and/or to disagree with each other, lets just make sure to do it respectfully and constructively
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
you say you've been here for 8 years but you don't really get how the game economy works.
yes, the daily deals gives the super whales tons of r3s, but cares? they already have 30+ r3s right now, and odds are you won't be running into them in BGs and the most important part is they're paying a very high price for materials will that see a huge drop in value in the near future and kabam will open the r3 taps for everyone else and then force the whales into spending a fortune on r4 materials.
players have been complaining about the spending gap for 10 years and yet the gap is never game breaking because kabam is giving them the least amount of value per dollar that they can.
OP, you bring up some legitimate points but when you lead with an unnecessary dig at people, you are inviting those people to comment on your insult and not on the actual content of what you said. That being said, there’s been a lot of ridiculous behavior in this thread, which is too bad because there are some points worth addressing.
Agreed, from the clickbait title (how is the game “terrible” if over half of the things OP listed is thought of positively?) to the pre-emptive ‘any criticism is a sign that you’re a mindless pawn of Kabam’ is all a very poor way to setup a productive discussion.
I wholeheartedly agree that EQ is not worth it … but thats for me. For lower accounts it is still worth it.
And while it would be nice if there was a Valiant EQ, its not like Valiant players are hurting for rewards. I’d hypothesize that Valiant players get more total top level rewards a month, than Paragon players got when Paragon was the top level. Valiant level rewards seem to be shunted to other game modes, like the SQ.
If there was a Valiant EQ that provided one full 7-star and some T6b/T3a … that doesn’t really move the needle for Valiant accounts that complain of a lack of Valiant EQ.
Edit: And a true State of the Game would evaluate the biggest part of the game - new champions, as the monthly two new and occasional buffed old champions are a huge part of what makes the game.
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
you say you've been here for 8 years but you don't really get how the game economy works.
yes, the daily deals gives the super whales tons of r3s, but cares? they already have 30+ r3s right now, and odds are you won't be running into them in BGs and the most important part is they're paying a very high price for materials will that see a huge drop in value in the near future and kabam will open the r3 taps for everyone else and then force the whales into spending a fortune on r4 materials.
players have been complaining about the spending gap for 10 years and yet the gap is never game breaking because kabam is giving them the least amount of value per dollar that they can.
I don't think you understood what I said, there is ZERO issue here with people spending... i spend, I'm one of those guys that drops a tonne in sales 😂 the point was how do Kabam have a budget and restrict the rewards on one hand but then all for double the rewards to be bought. As mentioned above the belief is that these extra purchasable things are included in the total a player can access... which imo is a crappy thing because it means you either spend a fortune to get the most rewards or you don't and get left with minimal rewards every month and the content won't become more rewarding because of this
OP, you bring up some legitimate points but when you lead with an unnecessary dig at people, you are inviting those people to comment on your insult and not on the actual content of what you said. That being said, there’s been a lot of ridiculous behavior in this thread, which is too bad because there are some points worth addressing.
Agreed, from the clickbait title (how is the game “terrible” if over half of the things OP listed is thought of positively?) to the pre-emptive ‘any criticism is a sign that you’re a mindless pawn of Kabam’ is all a very poor way to setup a productive discussion.
I wholeheartedly agree that EQ is not worth it … but thats for me. For lower accounts it is still worth it.
And while it would be nice if there was a Valiant EQ, its not like Valiant players are hurting for rewards. I’d hypothesize that Valiant players get more total top level rewards a month, than Paragon players got when Paragon was the top level. Valiant level rewards seem to be shunted to other game modes, like the SQ.
If there was a Valiant EQ that provided one full 7-star and some T6b/T3a … that doesn’t really move the needle for Valiant accounts that complain of a lack of Valiant EQ.
Edit: And a true State of the Game would evaluate the biggest part of the game - new champions, as the monthly two new and occasional buffed old champions are a huge part of what makes the game.
Truthfully, the initial comment was to abit replies... more replies means more chance Kabam see this and hopefully see some constructive replies which many have contributed
I stand by that Kabam are doing many things well, only issues is they are rare occasion events such as everest, raids, Crucible but 80% of the time their game is very stale, BG is the only consistent grind and lately the nodes haven't been great so I know a lot of people are taking a step back
I think Valuant EQ would spark a lot more life into the monthly quest and a lot more people would be pressed to cover it, TB takes a long time if you do it at once so spreading it across the month means more engagement
Disrespecting and personal attacks are okay as long as it is done by demonzfyre, right?
This is correct, I’ve seen it over a few years at this point.
But to return to the topic, I’d say the biggest overarching issue atm is time invested vs rewards. Many of the top players, or even regular valiant players will not struggle with much content nowadays, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It makes the actually challenging content more well received, especially with the nerfing of multiple revive farming spots. But the thing that a lot of players will be looking at nowadays will be the time invested. Best example is EQ. It just straight up is not worth the time invested for 100 dust and a couple 7 star shards. Many stopped doing it months ago, more and more as the months go by. An increase in difficulty isn’t gonna fix this, but is obviously gonna go hand in hand with a reward increase, which people will care about.
Bgs I’ve made my points clear in previous threads, but it is in a DIRE place for skill based play. Actual playing/investing marks and units is in a fine place.
I know Kabam has said before they don’t expect us to do everything, but human nature is to do as much as possible, which will lead them to want to do everything.
AQ recently updated, it is boring but the rewards are now good cause of the t4a
Incursions is a fun side mode, no issues really especially cause 1/3 months it gets supercharged
OP, you bring up some legitimate points but when you lead with an unnecessary dig at people, you are inviting those people to comment on your insult and not on the actual content of what you said. That being said, there’s been a lot of ridiculous behavior in this thread, which is too bad because there are some points worth addressing.
Agreed, from the clickbait title (how is the game “terrible” if over half of the things OP listed is thought of positively?) to the pre-emptive ‘any criticism is a sign that you’re a mindless pawn of Kabam’ is all a very poor way to setup a productive discussion.
I wholeheartedly agree that EQ is not worth it … but thats for me. For lower accounts it is still worth it.
And while it would be nice if there was a Valiant EQ, its not like Valiant players are hurting for rewards. I’d hypothesize that Valiant players get more total top level rewards a month, than Paragon players got when Paragon was the top level. Valiant level rewards seem to be shunted to other game modes, like the SQ.
If there was a Valiant EQ that provided one full 7-star and some T6b/T3a … that doesn’t really move the needle for Valiant accounts that complain of a lack of Valiant EQ.
Edit: And a true State of the Game would evaluate the biggest part of the game - new champions, as the monthly two new and occasional buffed old champions are a huge part of what makes the game.
Truthfully, the initial comment was to abit replies... more replies means more chance Kabam see this and hopefully see some constructive replies which many have contributed
I stand by that Kabam are doing many things well, only issues is they are rare occasion events such as everest, raids, Crucible but 80% of the time their game is very stale, BG is the only consistent grind and lately the nodes haven't been great so I know a lot of people are taking a step back
I think Valuant EQ would spark a lot more life into the monthly quest and a lot more people would be pressed to cover it, TB takes a long time if you do it at once so spreading it across the month means more engagement
Are you basically saying that the content of your thread is not enough to actually start a good discussion? You pretty much depend on bating people into a toxic argument to stand out to other posts?... Well it could have been closed right away if some people didn't get warned ahead of time, so basically it was a terrible decision.
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
you say you've been here for 8 years but you don't really get how the game economy works.
yes, the daily deals gives the super whales tons of r3s, but cares? they already have 30+ r3s right now, and odds are you won't be running into them in BGs and the most important part is they're paying a very high price for materials will that see a huge drop in value in the near future and kabam will open the r3 taps for everyone else and then force the whales into spending a fortune on r4 materials.
players have been complaining about the spending gap for 10 years and yet the gap is never game breaking because kabam is giving them the least amount of value per dollar that they can.
I don't think you understood what I said, there is ZERO issue here with people spending... i spend, I'm one of those guys that drops a tonne in sales 😂 the point was how do Kabam have a budget and restrict the rewards on one hand but then all for double the rewards to be bought. As mentioned above the belief is that these extra purchasable things are included in the total a player can access... which imo is a crappy thing because it means you either spend a fortune to get the most rewards or you don't and get left with minimal rewards every month and the content won't become more rewarding because of this
we just have to live with the fact that we'll never have the same things that the biggest whales do. they're keeping the game alive for everyone else so it makes sense that spending gives them SOME advantage, because if it didn't no one would spend.
and the game is actually pretty brutal on the super whales. they spend fortunes on things that everyone else gets for practically nothing a year later, so why worry?
the highest end content like necropolis is less exciting to do 12-16 months later and the rewards are less valuable but it's also easier and cheaper. the only other alternative is to spend a ton of money and get ahead, but you're not really ahead. we have to accept how the game economy works, there's no freebies and shortcuts.
Lets trait to avoid bait in titles where possible. Saved in this instance by good discussion but it is a very good way to get a thread closed quickly as others have said.
OP, you bring up some legitimate points but when you lead with an unnecessary dig at people, you are inviting those people to comment on your insult and not on the actual content of what you said. That being said, there’s been a lot of ridiculous behavior in this thread, which is too bad because there are some points worth addressing.
Agreed, from the clickbait title (how is the game “terrible” if over half of the things OP listed is thought of positively?) to the pre-emptive ‘any criticism is a sign that you’re a mindless pawn of Kabam’ is all a very poor way to setup a productive discussion.
I wholeheartedly agree that EQ is not worth it … but thats for me. For lower accounts it is still worth it.
And while it would be nice if there was a Valiant EQ, its not like Valiant players are hurting for rewards. I’d hypothesize that Valiant players get more total top level rewards a month, than Paragon players got when Paragon was the top level. Valiant level rewards seem to be shunted to other game modes, like the SQ.
If there was a Valiant EQ that provided one full 7-star and some T6b/T3a … that doesn’t really move the needle for Valiant accounts that complain of a lack of Valiant EQ.
Edit: And a true State of the Game would evaluate the biggest part of the game - new champions, as the monthly two new and occasional buffed old champions are a huge part of what makes the game.
Truthfully, the initial comment was to abit replies... more replies means more chance Kabam see this and hopefully see some constructive replies which many have contributed
I stand by that Kabam are doing many things well, only issues is they are rare occasion events such as everest, raids, Crucible but 80% of the time their game is very stale, BG is the only consistent grind and lately the nodes haven't been great so I know a lot of people are taking a step back
I think Valuant EQ would spark a lot more life into the monthly quest and a lot more people would be pressed to cover it, TB takes a long time if you do it at once so spreading it across the month means more engagement
Are you basically saying that the content of your thread is not enough to actually start a good discussion? You pretty much depend on bating people into a toxic argument to stand out to other posts?... Well it could have been closed right away if some people didn't get warned ahead of time, so basically it was a terrible decision.
Unfortunately, this thread isn't the first thread saying this. There's been tonnes of threads on multiple issues I pointed out and many don't get a reaction from anyone really much less Kabam
I still wasn't expecting much, I REALLY appreciate those who added to this thread whether they agreed or not or had their own thing to add, but the reality is if it doesn't blow up it gets lost in the many many posts on the forums and Kabam would never see it.
Honestly, yall know I post my fair share, sometimes it's immediately after an extreme frustrating interaction and other times it is feedback like this and I've learned that most just falls on deaf ears; the goal is for Kabam to read it and it in, potentially inspire something to imporve the game because all I want is for this game to keep on going
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
you say you've been here for 8 years but you don't really get how the game economy works.
yes, the daily deals gives the super whales tons of r3s, but cares? they already have 30+ r3s right now, and odds are you won't be running into them in BGs and the most important part is they're paying a very high price for materials will that see a huge drop in value in the near future and kabam will open the r3 taps for everyone else and then force the whales into spending a fortune on r4 materials.
players have been complaining about the spending gap for 10 years and yet the gap is never game breaking because kabam is giving them the least amount of value per dollar that they can.
I don't think you understood what I said, there is ZERO issue here with people spending... i spend, I'm one of those guys that drops a tonne in sales 😂 the point was how do Kabam have a budget and restrict the rewards on one hand but then all for double the rewards to be bought. As mentioned above the belief is that these extra purchasable things are included in the total a player can access... which imo is a crappy thing because it means you either spend a fortune to get the most rewards or you don't and get left with minimal rewards every month and the content won't become more rewarding because of this
we just have to live with the fact that we'll never have the same things that the biggest whales do. they're keeping the game alive for everyone else so it makes sense that spending gives them SOME advantage, because if it didn't no one would spend.
and the game is actually pretty brutal on the super whales. they spend fortunes on things that everyone else gets for practically nothing a year later, so why worry?
the highest end content like necropolis is less exciting to do 12-16 months later and the rewards are less valuable but it's also easier and cheaper. the only other alternative is to spend a ton of money and get ahead, but you're not really ahead. we have to accept how the game economy works, there's no freebies and shortcuts.
What? No, I want the offers 😂 i want the option to spend and get further that's not the point! The point is that I also want harder content with better rewards or to be rewarded appropriately for the current economy of the game and if the reason we don't have it is because the option for us to just buy these instead of earning is available then that's just poor
Kabam have a fine line to walk, if they release harder content then they have to give better rewards otherwise it won't be worth doing ...
OP, you bring up some legitimate points but when you lead with an unnecessary dig at people, you are inviting those people to comment on your insult and not on the actual content of what you said. That being said, there’s been a lot of ridiculous behavior in this thread, which is too bad because there are some points worth addressing.
Agreed, from the clickbait title (how is the game “terrible” if over half of the things OP listed is thought of positively?) to the pre-emptive ‘any criticism is a sign that you’re a mindless pawn of Kabam’ is all a very poor way to setup a productive discussion.
I wholeheartedly agree that EQ is not worth it … but thats for me. For lower accounts it is still worth it.
And while it would be nice if there was a Valiant EQ, its not like Valiant players are hurting for rewards. I’d hypothesize that Valiant players get more total top level rewards a month, than Paragon players got when Paragon was the top level. Valiant level rewards seem to be shunted to other game modes, like the SQ.
If there was a Valiant EQ that provided one full 7-star and some T6b/T3a … that doesn’t really move the needle for Valiant accounts that complain of a lack of Valiant EQ.
Edit: And a true State of the Game would evaluate the biggest part of the game - new champions, as the monthly two new and occasional buffed old champions are a huge part of what makes the game.
Truthfully, the initial comment was to abit replies... more replies means more chance Kabam see this and hopefully see some constructive replies which many have contributed
I stand by that Kabam are doing many things well, only issues is they are rare occasion events such as everest, raids, Crucible but 80% of the time their game is very stale, BG is the only consistent grind and lately the nodes haven't been great so I know a lot of people are taking a step back
I think Valuant EQ would spark a lot more life into the monthly quest and a lot more people would be pressed to cover it, TB takes a long time if you do it at once so spreading it across the month means more engagement
Are you basically saying that the content of your thread is not enough to actually start a good discussion? You pretty much depend on bating people into a toxic argument to stand out to other posts?... Well it could have been closed right away if some people didn't get warned ahead of time, so basically it was a terrible decision.
Unfortunately, this thread isn't the first thread saying this. There's been tonnes of threads on multiple issues I pointed out and many don't get a reaction from anyone really much less Kabam
I still wasn't expecting much, I REALLY appreciate those who added to this thread whether they agreed or not or had their own thing to add, but the reality is if it doesn't blow up it gets lost in the many many posts on the forums and Kabam would never see it.
Honestly, yall know I post my fair share, sometimes it's immediately after an extreme frustrating interaction and other times it is feedback like this and I've learned that most just falls on deaf ears; the goal is for Kabam to read it and it in, potentially inspire something to imporve the game because all I want is for this game to keep on going
You should work on getting frustrated less then. Its just a game, it has its ups and downs; but its supposed to be fun. If something frustrates you that often its far from being fun.
Actually, now it's been mentioned can we pull back to this 'budget' claim kabam are dropping
That is apparently the reason rewards aren't being buffed for ages etc but it's complete horse sh*t
I imagine the premise is that we can only earn x ammount of r3 cats, x ammount of 7* shards etc that just be spread of the month, quarter etc
But how is that a possible consideration when you have something like the daily offers?! Quick math points to 26k t4a and 9.5 7* shards and week from spending? Plus the tickets get an extra 5k 7* shards or 19k t4a depending on which way you go... but this is an extra r3 EVERY MONTH and 2/3 7*s a month too so how is this calculated?
Kabam tell us they won't buff rewards because we'll earn too much but nothing you can do monthly offers this much rewards? So it's just another crappy excuse to not update rewards/ stores
I really hope I wrong here but that is exactly what it sounds like.
you say you've been here for 8 years but you don't really get how the game economy works.
yes, the daily deals gives the super whales tons of r3s, but cares? they already have 30+ r3s right now, and odds are you won't be running into them in BGs and the most important part is they're paying a very high price for materials will that see a huge drop in value in the near future and kabam will open the r3 taps for everyone else and then force the whales into spending a fortune on r4 materials.
players have been complaining about the spending gap for 10 years and yet the gap is never game breaking because kabam is giving them the least amount of value per dollar that they can.
I don't think you understood what I said, there is ZERO issue here with people spending... i spend, I'm one of those guys that drops a tonne in sales 😂 the point was how do Kabam have a budget and restrict the rewards on one hand but then all for double the rewards to be bought. As mentioned above the belief is that these extra purchasable things are included in the total a player can access... which imo is a crappy thing because it means you either spend a fortune to get the most rewards or you don't and get left with minimal rewards every month and the content won't become more rewarding because of this
we just have to live with the fact that we'll never have the same things that the biggest whales do. they're keeping the game alive for everyone else so it makes sense that spending gives them SOME advantage, because if it didn't no one would spend.
and the game is actually pretty brutal on the super whales. they spend fortunes on things that everyone else gets for practically nothing a year later, so why worry?
the highest end content like necropolis is less exciting to do 12-16 months later and the rewards are less valuable but it's also easier and cheaper. the only other alternative is to spend a ton of money and get ahead, but you're not really ahead. we have to accept how the game economy works, there's no freebies and shortcuts.
What? No, I want the offers 😂 i want the option to spend and get further that's not the point! The point is that I also want harder content with better rewards or to be rewarded appropriately for the current economy of the game and if the reason we don't have it is because the option for us to just buy these instead of earning is available then that's just poor
Kabam have a fine line to walk, if they release harder content then they have to give better rewards otherwise it won't be worth doing ...
more and harder content with "appropriate" rewards just means accelerating progression and there's only so much 7* pie available. if we eat it up fast they have to make a new 8* pie.
No disrespect, but I find it curious you still play at all with the amount of complaint posts you have. The game has issues, and it also has appealing aspects. At the end of the day we're here because the enjoyment outweighs the frustration, or else we wouldn't be here. Focus on what you enjoy.
What? No, I want the offers 😂 i want the option to spend and get further that's not the point! The point is that I also want harder content with better rewards or to be rewarded appropriately for the current economy of the game and if the reason we don't have it is because the option for us to just buy these instead of earning is available then that's just poor
Fortunately, that's not the reason, or rather a reason for anything in particular.
The vast overwhelming majority of players do not spend. Not "are not whales" but literally do not spend a single cent, ever. The game has to work for them, or it doesn't work for more than 90% of all players of the game.
You can think of the game as two games that happen to share space. There is the free to play game, where none of the spending offers exist at all. That game is actually, in terms of how many players play it, the dominant game. And then there's the game that spenders see, where the offers exist. That is a different game, played by somewhat different rules, and it has to be internally economically consistent entirely separately from the other game. That game *is* balanced on the presumption that both the game play rewards and the spending rewards exist, and balanced around guard rails that include what spending can do to that game.
But the degree to which constrains on the free to play version of the game and the spending version of the game interact with each other are kept to a minimum,. Nothing is perfect, constraints from one leak out to the other, but at no time do the devs say "well, players can buy this, so we don't have to give anyone a way to earn that" because that rule would make the free to play game broken.
The problem is that when people see what's achievable without spending, many simply assume that could not possibly be what was intended, because of course we all deserve way way more stuff than that, and so assume the reason must be because the devs intend everyone to spend to get the rest. But that's not the case. I originally come from the MMO world where once upon a time game economies were balanced without microtransactions, because they literally did not exist. Those economy designers did pretty much the same things this game's economy designers do, and faced the same "stingy, out of touch" complaints designers get, but with the difference being no one could blame F2P monetization for those constraints, because it hadn't been invented yet.
Most people want more than what the game opportunities present. In a way, that's deliberate, in the sense that if everyone always got what they think they were supposed to get, rewards would have no incremental incentivizing properties. But if you think you should be getting more stuff than the game provides, the explanation is simple: the devs disagree. No two people are going to agree about that.
Kabam have a fine line to walk, if they release harder content then they have to give better rewards otherwise it won't be worth doing ...
That's the real constraint on top tier rewards. You can only hand out so much of it before you devalue them enough to have to introduce new ones, and top tier content doesn't remain top tier content for long. Mid tier content is going to be mid tier content for years, played by mid tier players years from now. But top tier content with top tier progression rewards doesn't just degrade gracefully, because the difficulty/reward curve for top tier rewards is completely different than it is for normal content. It is worth doing when the rewards are the top tier rewards in the game, because top tier rewards have a value all their own, completely separate from their raw value. But once they aren't anymore, the difficulty/reward curve shifts dramatically, and it becomes far less interesting. Developers are thus spending dev time on content with a much shorter shelf life than when they spend it on almost anything else.
The combination of less return on development time combined with running into top tier reward guardrails means there can only be so much of it, and it is much more costly on a relative basis to create it. And then there's the fact that top tier players can keep subdividing the top tier into smaller and smaller slices that impact smaller and smaller numbers of players, but still have the same development costs and even higher reward relevance requirements. The season of suffering content is already targeting maybe 10-20% of the players. Even more difficult content with even higher rewards would be even more difficult to create, more difficult to balance the rewards for, and only benefit maybe single digit percentage players. And the other 90%+ players of the game would have to give up something for them to get it, because there are only so many hours in the day to do that.
All these issues would still exist if this was a subscription based game with no monetizatiion.
Honestly, yall know I post my fair share, sometimes it's immediately after an extreme frustrating interaction and other times it is feedback like this and I've learned that most just falls on deaf ears; the goal is for Kabam to read it and it in, potentially inspire something to imporve the game because all I want is for this game to keep on going
The issue is not that they don't hear you, the issue is that they hear lots of people. Most of whom don't necessarily want what you want.
Every time a new champion rarity arrives, there are tons of people who threaten to quit, who question why this even needs to happen at all, and who ask the absolutely absurd question "why can't they do something more creative?" And the devs agree: new rarities come with challenges and issues, where players need to rebuild their rosters. But it is also necessary for the games core progression systems to function, so the only thing they can do is slow the need for them. They also have heard players who have said in the past that new ranks released too quickly, no sooner did players rank up champs to a rank when the next rank appeared, giving them no time to enjoy having rosters with champs of that previous rank before it was superceded. That plays into their caution when it comes to game inflation and progression a lot.
You say no one enjoys AQ. I can't address that directly as that's just a hyperbolic characterization, but what I can say is that most players appreciated the devs streamlining AQ. Most players did not want the devs to make AQ more complicated, more intricate, more difficult, or put more pressure on alliances. The uproar when all they did was replace the minions years ago was louder than all other AQ complaints combined. Yes, there are players like yourself constantly complaining about AQ being boring, but I know for a fact the number of players who would complain if it became what I suspect you want would be gigantic, because it has happened before multiple times.
There is tons more end game content in the game than there used to be, in fact the seasons of suffering stuff was intended in part to make it a more regular occurrence. Your contention that the devs are just "lazy" or they would be putting in a lot more end game related stuff belies the fact that they have been adding end game content continuously. They just aren't doing it as fast as you would like them to, but that's just you. There are lots of complaints going in the opposite direction, with players complaining there's too much to do, and not enough time to tackle it all. Burn out is a constantly recurring complaint, and while I believe that is mostly on the players to regulate their own game play, it is ultimately the game itself that suffers if players jump off a cliff trying to do everything. The devs can only add so much content, but they also have to deal with player complaints about how fast they add it.
How do you reconcile the fact that huge numbers of players complain about rarity jumps, but also want rewards to arrive faster than they do now? How do you reconcile the fact that Kabam gets tons of complaints about how boring AQ is, but get eviscerated every time they try to jazz it up (That's in fact why AQ Raids exist and in the form they do). How would you add more high end content while simultaneously dealing with burnout complaints? This isn't Kabam vs the players. This is the players vs the players. How do you pick winners and losers?
Comments
On the move away from rotating metas with a BGs season, I think that was a good thing. First, it gives more value to rank ups. It’s hard to justify a big rank up for content that’ll only be there for a week or two, but it’s much more palatable for something that’ll be present for a month. Plus, a substantial number of players tend to wait to push in BGs until the end of the season, so Kabam was just burning design space for too few players by rotating through the nodes in the way they were.
EQ is in desperate need of update, no argument. My personal thought has always been like a seasonal EQ that could be more endgame targeted. Bosses for it would be like our seasons of suffering, prizes could be on lanes, lanes could have varying difficulties and activate additional nodes on the boss. But there are lots of different ways to address this area of the game, and I’m sure they’ve got something cooking. They said they were aiming for an EQ update I believe in early 2025.
Non-Raid AQ is also just tragically boring. Way too repetitive. If glory weren’t such an indispensable resource, I’d have dispensed with playing the mode a long time ago. I don’t know how to fix it, but the repetitiveness of it is definitely the pain point.
War’s good, story’s good, Everest is good. They’ve been having some cool ideas and I like seeing how they’re developing. I think the game has also done a very good job in the last year of allowing F2P players access to the same toys that spenders have, with Necropolis being the only way to become Valiant for a meaningful period of time. I hope they continue that kind of rollout, with the first access to something new coming through endgame content before becoming available via spending.
Offers
Content
Special content like AoA or Everest
Holiday events.
Etc...
Each area takes away from the overall budget.
The biggest thing of injecting more rewards into the game means that spenders will need more rewards or else they won't spend. For example: say ftp players can only get 1 r3 in a month from content and spenders can get and additional r3 from spending money. That is a pretty good deal because you get r3s at twice the rate. If ftp get 2 r3s but spenders still get 1, less people will spend over time as they get all the r3s they want. If ftp got 3 r3s and spenders still only got 1, then I bet hardly anyone would be willing to drop more than $50 for their r3s. So if r3s are priced at $50, then that would mean spenders would need r3 gems at a minimum in the $50 bundles at cyber weekend. If r3 gems are in the $50, what could kabam sell at $100 that would be enticing to people? If 7* shards economy was great, then not those, maybe titan crystals but do you really want to be spending that much for a titan if you're getting 7*s quickly? The only logical choice would be t7b fragments which would ensure we get r4s by banquet.
Lots of work and effort go into managing the economy. The people working there know what they're doing and know what is healthy for the game. It takes a lot of time to update rewards for things like BGs and AW, but those are things that are likely looking at updating sometime soon.
Rewards are incentives. Incentives to play, to grind, to compete, and to spend. When you devalue your rewards, you reduce their ability to function as incentives. So all rewards have a useful lifespan as strong incentives before they become just part of the grind. So how quickly to let them flow into the game ironically speeds up the need to supersede them with better rewards, and thus cut short their lifetime as significant value things. When too many players have too many R3s, it’s time to introduce R4s, because R3s stop becoming interesting rewards at the top. This is of course highly oversimplified, because this kind of analysis happens at all progression tiers, but it is most obvious at the top.
This becomes most clear when we talk about champion rarity. The clock is already ticking on eight star champs. Anyone who thinks they won’t arrive is delusional. The slower 7s pour into the game and the slower rank up tiers are released into the game, the longer the lifespan of 7s will be before 8s arrive to begin the process of replacing them at the top of the game. If it happens too quickly, players won’t have much time to spend enjoying their seven star roster before they will have to start all over again building up their eight star roster. How fast this happens is probably the single biggest downward pressure on overall reward flow into the game.
I think Crashed might say Kabam is trying to preserve as much runway for the seven star rarity as possible, to delay the natural disruption of eights arriving. There’s no such thing as softening that transition with 7.4 star champs. It’s always a somewhat painful jump forward.
yes, the daily deals gives the super whales tons of r3s, but cares? they already have 30+ r3s right now, and odds are you won't be running into them in BGs and the most important part is they're paying a very high price for materials will that see a huge drop in value in the near future and kabam will open the r3 taps for everyone else and then force the whales into spending a fortune on r4 materials.
players have been complaining about the spending gap for 10 years and yet the gap is never game breaking because kabam is giving them the least amount of value per dollar that they can.
I wholeheartedly agree that EQ is not worth it … but thats for me. For lower accounts it is still worth it.
And while it would be nice if there was a Valiant EQ, its not like Valiant players are hurting for rewards. I’d hypothesize that Valiant players get more total top level rewards a month, than Paragon players got when Paragon was the top level. Valiant level rewards seem to be shunted to other game modes, like the SQ.
If there was a Valiant EQ that provided one full 7-star and some T6b/T3a … that doesn’t really move the needle for Valiant accounts that complain of a lack of Valiant EQ.
Edit: And a true State of the Game would evaluate the biggest part of the game - new champions, as the monthly two new and occasional buffed old champions are a huge part of what makes the game.
I stand by that Kabam are doing many things well, only issues is they are rare occasion events such as everest, raids, Crucible but 80% of the time their game is very stale, BG is the only consistent grind and lately the nodes haven't been great so I know a lot of people are taking a step back
I think Valuant EQ would spark a lot more life into the monthly quest and a lot more people would be pressed to cover it, TB takes a long time if you do it at once so spreading it across the month means more engagement
But to return to the topic, I’d say the biggest overarching issue atm is time invested vs rewards. Many of the top players, or even regular valiant players will not struggle with much content nowadays, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It makes the actually challenging content more well received, especially with the nerfing of multiple revive farming spots.
But the thing that a lot of players will be looking at nowadays will be the time invested. Best example is EQ. It just straight up is not worth the time invested for 100 dust and a couple 7 star shards. Many stopped doing it months ago, more and more as the months go by. An increase in difficulty isn’t gonna fix this, but is obviously gonna go hand in hand with a reward increase, which people will care about.
Bgs I’ve made my points clear in previous threads, but it is in a DIRE place for skill based play. Actual playing/investing marks and units is in a fine place.
I know Kabam has said before they don’t expect us to do everything, but human nature is to do as much as possible, which will lead them to want to do everything.
AQ recently updated, it is boring but the rewards are now good cause of the t4a
Incursions is a fun side mode, no issues really especially cause 1/3 months it gets supercharged
Well it could have been closed right away if some people didn't get warned ahead of time, so basically it was a terrible decision.
and the game is actually pretty brutal on the super whales. they spend fortunes on things that everyone else gets for practically nothing a year later, so why worry?
the highest end content like necropolis is less exciting to do 12-16 months later and the rewards are less valuable but it's also easier and cheaper. the only other alternative is to spend a ton of money and get ahead, but you're not really ahead. we have to accept how the game economy works, there's no freebies and shortcuts.
I still wasn't expecting much, I REALLY appreciate those who added to this thread whether they agreed or not or had their own thing to add, but the reality is if it doesn't blow up it gets lost in the many many posts on the forums and Kabam would never see it.
Honestly, yall know I post my fair share, sometimes it's immediately after an extreme frustrating interaction and other times it is feedback like this and I've learned that most just falls on deaf ears; the goal is for Kabam to read it and it in, potentially inspire something to imporve the game because all I want is for this game to keep on going
Kabam have a fine line to walk, if they release harder content then they have to give better rewards otherwise it won't be worth doing ...
The game has issues, and it also has appealing aspects. At the end of the day we're here because the enjoyment outweighs the frustration, or else we wouldn't be here.
Focus on what you enjoy.
The vast overwhelming majority of players do not spend. Not "are not whales" but literally do not spend a single cent, ever. The game has to work for them, or it doesn't work for more than 90% of all players of the game.
You can think of the game as two games that happen to share space. There is the free to play game, where none of the spending offers exist at all. That game is actually, in terms of how many players play it, the dominant game. And then there's the game that spenders see, where the offers exist. That is a different game, played by somewhat different rules, and it has to be internally economically consistent entirely separately from the other game. That game *is* balanced on the presumption that both the game play rewards and the spending rewards exist, and balanced around guard rails that include what spending can do to that game.
But the degree to which constrains on the free to play version of the game and the spending version of the game interact with each other are kept to a minimum,. Nothing is perfect, constraints from one leak out to the other, but at no time do the devs say "well, players can buy this, so we don't have to give anyone a way to earn that" because that rule would make the free to play game broken.
The problem is that when people see what's achievable without spending, many simply assume that could not possibly be what was intended, because of course we all deserve way way more stuff than that, and so assume the reason must be because the devs intend everyone to spend to get the rest. But that's not the case. I originally come from the MMO world where once upon a time game economies were balanced without microtransactions, because they literally did not exist. Those economy designers did pretty much the same things this game's economy designers do, and faced the same "stingy, out of touch" complaints designers get, but with the difference being no one could blame F2P monetization for those constraints, because it hadn't been invented yet.
Most people want more than what the game opportunities present. In a way, that's deliberate, in the sense that if everyone always got what they think they were supposed to get, rewards would have no incremental incentivizing properties. But if you think you should be getting more stuff than the game provides, the explanation is simple: the devs disagree. No two people are going to agree about that.
That's the real constraint on top tier rewards. You can only hand out so much of it before you devalue them enough to have to introduce new ones, and top tier content doesn't remain top tier content for long. Mid tier content is going to be mid tier content for years, played by mid tier players years from now. But top tier content with top tier progression rewards doesn't just degrade gracefully, because the difficulty/reward curve for top tier rewards is completely different than it is for normal content. It is worth doing when the rewards are the top tier rewards in the game, because top tier rewards have a value all their own, completely separate from their raw value. But once they aren't anymore, the difficulty/reward curve shifts dramatically, and it becomes far less interesting. Developers are thus spending dev time on content with a much shorter shelf life than when they spend it on almost anything else.
The combination of less return on development time combined with running into top tier reward guardrails means there can only be so much of it, and it is much more costly on a relative basis to create it. And then there's the fact that top tier players can keep subdividing the top tier into smaller and smaller slices that impact smaller and smaller numbers of players, but still have the same development costs and even higher reward relevance requirements. The season of suffering content is already targeting maybe 10-20% of the players. Even more difficult content with even higher rewards would be even more difficult to create, more difficult to balance the rewards for, and only benefit maybe single digit percentage players. And the other 90%+ players of the game would have to give up something for them to get it, because there are only so many hours in the day to do that.
All these issues would still exist if this was a subscription based game with no monetizatiion.
Every time a new champion rarity arrives, there are tons of people who threaten to quit, who question why this even needs to happen at all, and who ask the absolutely absurd question "why can't they do something more creative?" And the devs agree: new rarities come with challenges and issues, where players need to rebuild their rosters. But it is also necessary for the games core progression systems to function, so the only thing they can do is slow the need for them. They also have heard players who have said in the past that new ranks released too quickly, no sooner did players rank up champs to a rank when the next rank appeared, giving them no time to enjoy having rosters with champs of that previous rank before it was superceded. That plays into their caution when it comes to game inflation and progression a lot.
You say no one enjoys AQ. I can't address that directly as that's just a hyperbolic characterization, but what I can say is that most players appreciated the devs streamlining AQ. Most players did not want the devs to make AQ more complicated, more intricate, more difficult, or put more pressure on alliances. The uproar when all they did was replace the minions years ago was louder than all other AQ complaints combined. Yes, there are players like yourself constantly complaining about AQ being boring, but I know for a fact the number of players who would complain if it became what I suspect you want would be gigantic, because it has happened before multiple times.
There is tons more end game content in the game than there used to be, in fact the seasons of suffering stuff was intended in part to make it a more regular occurrence. Your contention that the devs are just "lazy" or they would be putting in a lot more end game related stuff belies the fact that they have been adding end game content continuously. They just aren't doing it as fast as you would like them to, but that's just you. There are lots of complaints going in the opposite direction, with players complaining there's too much to do, and not enough time to tackle it all. Burn out is a constantly recurring complaint, and while I believe that is mostly on the players to regulate their own game play, it is ultimately the game itself that suffers if players jump off a cliff trying to do everything. The devs can only add so much content, but they also have to deal with player complaints about how fast they add it.
How do you reconcile the fact that huge numbers of players complain about rarity jumps, but also want rewards to arrive faster than they do now? How do you reconcile the fact that Kabam gets tons of complaints about how boring AQ is, but get eviscerated every time they try to jazz it up (That's in fact why AQ Raids exist and in the form they do). How would you add more high end content while simultaneously dealing with burnout complaints? This isn't Kabam vs the players. This is the players vs the players. How do you pick winners and losers?