Why doesn't Kingpin take critical failure damage?

jdschwjdschw Member Posts: 506 ★★★
One random thing I noticed a while back that has always bothered me: when using awakened domino as an attacker vs. Kingpin, if I parry him and he fails to purify it, shouldn't he take crit failure damage from domino's sig ability?

Well, spoiler alert: he doesn't. The critical failure never procs.

Can anybody explain why?
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Comments

  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 8,553 ★★★★★
    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★
    Yeah I've noticed it, some wierd interaction I guess.
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 5,600 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 8,814 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    Like concussion, it reduces both defensive and offensive
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    That's how it should be, but tell that to glancing.
    What did glancing do now?
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 5,600 ★★★★★
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 5,600 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,915 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    This is literally not how it works. Black widow reduces your defensive ability accuracy, meaning your parries can fail, and hercules reduces your offensive ability accuracy. Both attackers and defenders have defensive and offensive abilities
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 10,640 ★★★★★
    My question is, is there any abilities that are neither offensive nor defensive? And how it interacts with domino's critical failure?
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
    Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    This is literally not how it works. Black widow reduces your defensive ability accuracy, meaning your parries can fail, and hercules reduces your offensive ability accuracy. Both attackers and defenders have defensive and offensive abilities
    It is though
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,864 ★★★★★
    There is oaar and daar as ultron classic sig uses oaar


  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    My question is, is there any abilities that are neither offensive nor defensive? And how it interacts with domino's critical failure?

    Did some light testing. Sometimes he takes crit fail when he fails to purify a debuff
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★
    What surprised me is that his damage changes for no reason. Same amount of rage. Does domino have fluctuating block proficiency?
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,864 ★★★★★

    What surprised me is that his damage changes for no reason. Same amount of rage. Does domino have fluctuating block proficiency?

    Yes in her kit she can change her stats on hits its why sometimes she hits high sometimes not as high
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,864 ★★★★★
    Also dominos sig calls out if they fail abilities so id say she can fail both offensive abilities and defensive abilities
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 5,600 ★★★★★
    edited January 3

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
    Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
    I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully dna3000 can give some insight
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★
    Bendy said:

    What surprised me is that his damage changes for no reason. Same amount of rage. Does domino have fluctuating block proficiency?

    Yes in her kit she can change her stats on hits its why sometimes she hits high sometimes not as high
    Goddamn this gal!
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,864 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
    Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
    Id say defensive more but hes a odd one on whats defensive whats offensive since he can purify both ways
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★
    Just to clear things up a bit. All champs have abilities. Some get triggered when they get hit, some trigger when they hit the opponent, and some trigger independent of these actions.

    There is no strict classification of any of these abilities as "Defensive Ability" or "Offensive Ability"

    So what does Offensive/Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction/Increase mean?

    (Let's just take offensive ability accuracy reduction for simplicity)

    So what happens when a champ has offensive ability accuracy reduced? For the time frame that they are hitting an opponent, they will have a concussion (just aar) applied on them. This concussion does not have any way to differentiate between offensive and defensive abilities. It will just reduce the ability accuracy of all abilities. Period.

    The same happens for defensive ability accuracy reduction/increase
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★
    Bendy said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
    Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
    Id say defensive more but hes a odd one on whats defensive whats offensive since he can purify both ways
    That's exactly why there is no clear distinction b/w offensive and defensive abilities. Many abilities can trigger while getting hit or hitting(they may not be the actual cause though)

    Herc's immortality can be prevented with offensive ability accuracy reduction even thought it would be classified by most as a defensive ability
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,864 ★★★★★

    Bendy said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
    Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
    Id say defensive more but hes a odd one on whats defensive whats offensive since he can purify both ways
    That's exactly why there is no clear distinction b/w offensive and defensive abilities. Many abilities can trigger while getting hit or hitting(they may not be the actual cause though)

    Herc's immortality can be prevented with offensive ability accuracy reduction even thought it would be classified by most as a defensive ability
    To test korg use infuriate if he removes it then his purify is potentially defensive ability
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 964 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Terra said:

    Defensive ability vs Offensive ability separation most likely.

    But doesn’t she reduce both defensive and offensive Ability accuracy?
    Yeah if an ability doesn't say defensive or offensive it should be both
    There is no such thing as an offensive or defensive ability. Defensive ability accuracy reduction means that AAR is applied while attacking and vice versa
    There is offensive and defensive abilities. E.g things rock stacks are defensive and so if you reduce his defensive ability accuracy when fighting him he won't trigger his rock stacks
    No. They just happen to only trigger when getting hit is all.

    When we say Defensive Ability Accuracy Reduction,what it means is

    When you hit the opponent, you reduce their ability accuracy. Period. So any ability that would trigger in that frame would be affected . Regardless of whether it is an ability that gets triggered when getting hit or not.
    Yes and abilities in the time frame you said are called defensive abilities. Offensive ability accuracy reduction won't do anything to things rock stacks. Because they are DEFENSIVE abilities
    Is debuff purification of Korg a defensive ability or an offensive ability?
    I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully dna3000 can give some insight
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/269748/combat-mechanics-theres-no-such-thing-as-defensive-ability-accuracy#latest


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