How to Make BG Even Better

TotemCorruption

First of all, I don't think there is anything wrong with BG currently. People who are skilled take it very seriously and it's a great format and drives a lot of competition which is essential for any game to survive.

But playing in the GC today and bullying a victory and also getting bullied into a loss made me think. While skill plays a large part, when all else is equal, person A's R6A Onslaught will just put up lower scores than person B's 7R3 sig 200 Onslaught. Or Serpent or Silk or whoever. Again, usually skill wins out (and I include deck management & matchup selection as part of skill), but when skill is close, the rank definitely gives a big edge.

So why not have a side BG format, like we have different Arenas. The current BG with its "open weight" format still remains as king, but make a side BG for like just R6s and below. It will truly shine a spotlight on pure skill. And it will also make 6s and even 5s more relevant for Valiants, who will find a reason to keep spending time and money on these stars whereas now most of Valiants only care about 7s.

Just an idea!

Captainaiden

you not valiant?

TotemCorruption

Captainaiden said:

you not valiant?

I am. Did my idea come across as being system-blaming?
I think BG is great as it currently is. Not asking to change it, just adding a side BG.
I like collecting and ranking up 6s and even 5s and 4s. This would make it seem less wasteful if there was something other than just arenas and a few niche end-game challenges to justify it.

TotemCorruption

Thinking about this some more, I guess I failed to acknowledge a couple of valid reasons to dislike this idea:

(1) it would at least in part dilute our investment in 7s: many people spend a lot of time and money getting their 7s, and any new format that dilutes their relevance would be a huge slap in the face and wallet. I get that.

(2) it would also get rid of the "overmatched" excuse a lot of players grasp onto. if there was a BG format where the overmatched excuse wasn't available, many of us would have to come to grips that it our losses are for lack of skill, instead of us not being the biggest whales, etc. That would be a tough pill to swallow, I get that.

So yes, I overlooked those considerations.

Herbal_Taxman

I like this idea. I continue to think that BGs is underutilized as a creative platform for Kabam. It’s unique in the game and they could do so much more with it. Don’t have a great lineup of events for a certain month? Do 3 day BG challenges, 10 for 30 days. Put crazy nodes on there, make people play odd champs, give bonus points for lower ranks, whatever. Not everything needs to last 30 days and it would be cool if they stretched the creativity around the “engine” that BG could become.

TotemCorruption

Herbal_Taxman said:

I like this idea. I continue to think that BGs is underutilized as a creative platform for Kabam. It’s unique in the game and they could do so much more with it. Don’t have a great lineup of events for a certain month? Do 3 day BG challenges, 10 for 30 days. Put crazy nodes on there, make people play odd champs, give bonus points for lower ranks, whatever. Not everything needs to last 30 days and it would be cool if they stretched the creativity around the “engine” that BG could become.

Yes definitely, I like where you're coming from.
Part of the reason I started thinking about this is from playing the current GC node. Cap damage, etc. Everyone was still trotting out their usual defenders, the Serpents and Enchantresses, and then I ran into someone who only drafted 6 star cleanse champs as defenders, and I got smoked.
It made me think, I'd love for there to be more of that type of rewards for strategy and skill.

DNA3000

TotemCorruption said:

Thinking about this some more, I guess I failed to acknowledge a couple of valid reasons to dislike this idea:

(1) it would at least in part dilute our investment in 7s: many people spend a lot of time and money getting their 7s, and any new format that dilutes their relevance would be a huge slap in the face and wallet. I get that.

(2) it would also get rid of the "overmatched" excuse a lot of players grasp onto. if there was a BG format where the overmatched excuse wasn't available, many of us would have to come to grips that it our losses are for lack of skill, instead of us not being the biggest whales, etc. That would be a tough pill to swallow, I get that.

So yes, I overlooked those considerations.

There's an additional one and probably the fatal one: It splits the playerbase into two different modes, which means each of them will have lower match density (number of players looking for match) than the current one does now. Which would make the player experience overall worse., because in general there's nothing worse in a turnstile game mode than not finding a match. Getting unlucky, crashing out, buggy match, getting blasted by a higher rated player, are all peanuts compared to players queuing and not finding matches for excessive periods of time. As should be obvious, all problems the BG mode currently faces are minor annoyances in the grand scheme of things: the mode is still plenty popular, engagement does not appear to be declining, and match frequency tends to be consistently healthy except at the very very top. But long queue times almost always create a death spiral of engagement in such game modes, because the fewer people who engage, the longer match times become, which is a positive reinforcement cycle.

phillgreen

A bunch of people with 30 max sig max rank 6* will just steamroll and the cycle begins anew.

I'd be happy to see something in offseason but the main game shouldn't be diluted in season

TotemCorruption

DNA3000 said:

TotemCorruption said:

Thinking about this some more, I guess I failed to acknowledge a couple of valid reasons to dislike this idea:

(1) it would at least in part dilute our investment in 7s: many people spend a lot of time and money getting their 7s, and any new format that dilutes their relevance would be a huge slap in the face and wallet. I get that.

(2) it would also get rid of the "overmatched" excuse a lot of players grasp onto. if there was a BG format where the overmatched excuse wasn't available, many of us would have to come to grips that it our losses are for lack of skill, instead of us not being the biggest whales, etc. That would be a tough pill to swallow, I get that.

So yes, I overlooked those considerations.

There's an additional one and probably the fatal one: It splits the playerbase into two different modes, which means each of them will have lower match density (number of players looking for match) than the current one does now. Which would make the player experience overall worse., because in general there's nothing worse in a turnstile game mode than not finding a match. Getting unlucky, crashing out, buggy match, getting blasted by a higher rated player, are all peanuts compared to players queuing and not finding matches for excessive periods of time. As should be obvious, all problems the BG mode currently faces are minor annoyances in the grand scheme of things: the mode is still plenty popular, engagement does not appear to be declining, and match frequency tends to be consistently healthy except at the very very top. But long queue times almost always create a death spiral of engagement in such game modes, because the fewer people who engage, the longer match times become, which is a positive reinforcement cycle.

Good point, and yes, I failed to consider that.
Definitely agree on the delay issue; when I get into the higher tiers and have to wait 2+ minutes for a match it becomes pretty annoying. And I'm always glad when I get my butt kicked back to the lower tiers and get fast matches again.

I guess the only counter would be if the new format would bring in additional players or additional engagement from current players. Or if offering it during the offseason only would bring more engagement. But I assume Kabam has data and opinion research on all this and they don't need ideas from a noob like me, lol. I get that too.

TotemCorruption

phillgreen said:

A bunch of people with 30 max sig max rank 6* will just steamroll and the cycle begins anew.

I'd be happy to see something in offseason but the main game shouldn't be diluted in season

Yes I was now thinking of offseason option too, glad to hear some support for that.

PT_99

If you don't have resources (7r3) but other guy have,
Then you can't just cry and say,
"wahhh, take that thing away from him then I'll be able to compete, wahhh."

That's just not how things work.

TotemCorruption

PT_99 said:

If you don't have resources (7r3) but other guy have,
Then you can't just cry and say,
"wahhh, take that thing away from him then I'll be able to compete, wahhh."

That's just not how things work.

Not really what I was saying but I understand how it could've come across like that.
Anyway, Kabam should at least take all the 6 mats out of the rank rewards. Everyone who finishes near the top ranks already has their KB and CGR maxed out, so making 6 mats a huge portion of rank rewards when only 7s are relevant to get those rewards is almost absurd.

Seyuoh

TotemCorruption said:

First of all, I don't think there is anything wrong with BG currently. People who are skilled take it very seriously and it's a great format and drives a lot of competition which is essential for any game to survive.

But playing in the GC today and bullying a victory and also getting bullied into a loss made me think. While skill plays a large part, when all else is equal, person A's R6A Onslaught will just put up lower scores than person B's 7R3 sig 200 Onslaught. Or Serpent or Silk or whoever. Again, usually skill wins out (and I include deck management & matchup selection as part of skill), but when skill is close, the rank definitely gives a big edge.

So why not have a side BG format, like we have different Arenas. The current BG with its "open weight" format still remains as king, but make a side BG for like just R6s and below. It will truly shine a spotlight on pure skill. And it will also make 6s and even 5s more relevant for Valiants, who will find a reason to keep spending time and money on these stars whereas now most of Valiants only care about 7s.

Just an idea!

I don’t hate the idea, but I feel like that would more or less just completely make 7*’s that we grinded for; completely irrelevant in most ways.
Not to mention, that would basically be skill based matchmaking- which is a number one killer for endgame players.
Overall, not a bad idea- but would be almost impossible to implement without killing the mode entirely.

GrabmeMCOC

A good suggestion. And a good way to revive 90% of previous roster investment. I’d go so far as adding weekly rotations of gated rarities. Week 1 2-3*, week 2 3-4*, week 3 of 4-5* and week 4 of 5-6*.

Herbal_Taxman

Seyuoh said:

TotemCorruption said:

First of all, I don't think there is anything wrong with BG currently. People who are skilled take it very seriously and it's a great format and drives a lot of competition which is essential for any game to survive.

But playing in the GC today and bullying a victory and also getting bullied into a loss made me think. While skill plays a large part, when all else is equal, person A's R6A Onslaught will just put up lower scores than person B's 7R3 sig 200 Onslaught. Or Serpent or Silk or whoever. Again, usually skill wins out (and I include deck management & matchup selection as part of skill), but when skill is close, the rank definitely gives a big edge.

So why not have a side BG format, like we have different Arenas. The current BG with its "open weight" format still remains as king, but make a side BG for like just R6s and below. It will truly shine a spotlight on pure skill. And it will also make 6s and even 5s more relevant for Valiants, who will find a reason to keep spending time and money on these stars whereas now most of Valiants only care about 7s.

Just an idea!

I don’t hate the idea, but I feel like that would more or less just completely make 7*’s that we grinded for; completely irrelevant in most ways.
Not to mention, that would basically be skill based matchmaking- which is a number one killer for endgame players.
Overall, not a bad idea- but would be almost impossible to implement without killing the mode entirely.

Fair point. BUT — what if you only implemented the idea for a three day shootout? I don’t think the game economy would crash or the world would crumble because someone’s seven star champ is less important in one game mode, for a limited amount of time.

DNA3000

Herbal_Taxman said:

Seyuoh said:

TotemCorruption said:

First of all, I don't think there is anything wrong with BG currently. People who are skilled take it very seriously and it's a great format and drives a lot of competition which is essential for any game to survive.

But playing in the GC today and bullying a victory and also getting bullied into a loss made me think. While skill plays a large part, when all else is equal, person A's R6A Onslaught will just put up lower scores than person B's 7R3 sig 200 Onslaught. Or Serpent or Silk or whoever. Again, usually skill wins out (and I include deck management & matchup selection as part of skill), but when skill is close, the rank definitely gives a big edge.

So why not have a side BG format, like we have different Arenas. The current BG with its "open weight" format still remains as king, but make a side BG for like just R6s and below. It will truly shine a spotlight on pure skill. And it will also make 6s and even 5s more relevant for Valiants, who will find a reason to keep spending time and money on these stars whereas now most of Valiants only care about 7s.

Just an idea!

I don’t hate the idea, but I feel like that would more or less just completely make 7*’s that we grinded for; completely irrelevant in most ways.
Not to mention, that would basically be skill based matchmaking- which is a number one killer for endgame players.
Overall, not a bad idea- but would be almost impossible to implement without killing the mode entirely.

Fair point. BUT — what if you only implemented the idea for a three day shootout? I don’t think the game economy would crash or the world would crumble because someone’s seven star champ is less important in one game mode, for a limited amount of time.

Probably not. But "will not end the game" is not a reason to do something. "Will end the game" is a reason to not do something. "Won't end the game" is just saying however dumb an idea is, it isn't as dumb as possible.

Herbal_Taxman

DNA3000 said:

Herbal_Taxman said:

Seyuoh said:

TotemCorruption said:

First of all, I don't think there is anything wrong with BG currently. People who are skilled take it very seriously and it's a great format and drives a lot of competition which is essential for any game to survive.

But playing in the GC today and bullying a victory and also getting bullied into a loss made me think. While skill plays a large part, when all else is equal, person A's R6A Onslaught will just put up lower scores than person B's 7R3 sig 200 Onslaught. Or Serpent or Silk or whoever. Again, usually skill wins out (and I include deck management & matchup selection as part of skill), but when skill is close, the rank definitely gives a big edge.

So why not have a side BG format, like we have different Arenas. The current BG with its "open weight" format still remains as king, but make a side BG for like just R6s and below. It will truly shine a spotlight on pure skill. And it will also make 6s and even 5s more relevant for Valiants, who will find a reason to keep spending time and money on these stars whereas now most of Valiants only care about 7s.

Just an idea!

I don’t hate the idea, but I feel like that would more or less just completely make 7*’s that we grinded for; completely irrelevant in most ways.
Not to mention, that would basically be skill based matchmaking- which is a number one killer for endgame players.
Overall, not a bad idea- but would be almost impossible to implement without killing the mode entirely.

Fair point. BUT — what if you only implemented the idea for a three day shootout? I don’t think the game economy would crash or the world would crumble because someone’s seven star champ is less important in one game mode, for a limited amount of time.

Probably not. But "will not end the game" is not a reason to do something. "Will end the game" is a reason to not do something. "Won't end the game" is just saying however dumb an idea is, it isn't as dumb as possible.

So you don’t think there are any more creative ways to use the BG game mode for innovation or experimentation? After all, that is what we were talking about here until you arrived with the usual lectures about why nothing can ever be changed or even effectively critiqued because we don’t have all the wonderful information you do. What we were doing was engaging in a harmless speculative exercise about “what might be” — which I should have remembered is always pointless in the forum.

Penzito

Weekend BG Benders should have been a thing along time ago. Using star level, class, or any other kind of restrictions. Give us randomized nodes already. Anything goes, Royal rumble style over the top rope only.

Siliyo

The problem with collecting Barbies and Pokémon is that you won’t use them all and that’s okay. There was a point where we used lower stars, but as you develop you grow your roster and leave them behind

TotemCorruption

Siliyo said:

The problem with collecting Barbies and Pokémon is that you won’t use them all and that’s okay. There was a point where we used lower stars, but as you develop you grow your roster and leave them behind

Man, I don't even want to know what you're talking about when you say you collect Barbies but can't use them all....

phillgreen

What we do in the off season is make stupid rules for deck selection and do friendlies.

NoOnexRO

This was a proposal I made in November 2023:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/351008/suggestion-solution-to-battlegrounds-leagues-based-on-champions-stars

Nothing happened then...

Buttehrs

I wouldn't mind a special event here and there like only 2* decks allowed or something similar.

IAmGrO_ot78

BG is fine, the only changes that is needed are the outdated milestones rewards, and we need a higher cap on Elders Marks.

Gamer

IAmGrO_ot78 said:

BG is fine, the only changes that is needed are the outdated milestones rewards, and we need a higher cap on Elders Marks.

get lvl 64 to get 500 more elders marks

IAmGrO_ot78

Gamer said:

IAmGrO_ot78 said:

BG is fine, the only changes that is needed are the outdated milestones rewards, and we need a higher cap on Elders Marks.

get lvl 64 to get 500 more elders marks

I’m 60,5ish atm 🤭 And 500 more won’t make a big difference. A 15k cap would make more sense.

Ben_15455

Update rewards, make a match faster, better metas

Graves_3

IAmGrO_ot78 said:

Gamer said:

IAmGrO_ot78 said:

BG is fine, the only changes that is needed are the outdated milestones rewards, and we need a higher cap on Elders Marks.

get lvl 64 to get 500 more elders marks

I’m 60,5ish atm 🤭 And 500 more won’t make a big difference. A 15k cap would make more sense.

With 9k limit I am usually hovering around 8k. If they increase limit, I will be hovering around 14k. Moral of the story-Just use the marks and don’t hoard.

TotemCorruption

Graves_3 said:

IAmGrO_ot78 said:

Gamer said:

IAmGrO_ot78 said:

BG is fine, the only changes that is needed are the outdated milestones rewards, and we need a higher cap on Elders Marks.

get lvl 64 to get 500 more elders marks

I’m 60,5ish atm 🤭 And 500 more won’t make a big difference. A 15k cap would make more sense.

With 9k limit I am usually hovering around 8k. If they increase limit, I will be hovering around 14k. Moral of the story-Just use the marks and don’t hoard.

Yeah, I mean, does Groot even play BG if he wants to hoard 15k elder marks. Does he think he can use them to buy stuff at banquet, lol?

Vanitelia

Would be cool to have an offseason mini BG event every 3 months or something where it's 2/1 stars. Rewards can be whatever. Cost would be energy so it doesn't eat into EM's.

Love the idea of randomized rosters and nodes. Coding is probably difficult for that, but we already have roster requirements in game, so maybe limiting the 30 champ deck to 5 per class. Random nodes are also in the game via incursions.

Release cadence could be end game content (gauntlet, crucible, back issues), special incursions, new BG mode, and then repeat. It something to look forward to.

Ayden_noah1

The best way to make BG better is to offer better rewards for everyone.