Okay, I know Valiant EQ is supposed to be experimental, but when the feedback prior has been overwhelmingly positive, doesn't mean you have to try an make it worse.
Okay, I know Valiant EQ is supposed to be experimental, but when the feedback prior has been overwhelmingly positive, doesn't mean you have to try an make it worse.
Even, and especially, if the response to this is: “these changes were already planned.” I hope Kabam gets how that just actually makes the whole thing worse.
Let’s break this down.
After both months of the Valiant EQ player feedback was pretty much consistent: great rewards - maybe even a little too good, difficulty feels okay but content takes too long because the fights are tedious and there’s too many of them. Please rebalance as fewer fights with a little bit more difficulty would be perfect. Longer fights =/= difficult fights. More fights =/= more difficulty.
Give or take, that was the summary of feedback from the community both times.
So players - Kabam’s beta testers in this scenario - provided this feedback. Kabam moves ahead with the intended changes so we shift into phase two of this test.
Now, the implemented changes were clearly just going to exacerbate the issues players had with the format and the major complaints players made.
I say clearly because even if it wasn’t known in advance, the received feedback tells us this.
Regardless, shifting to phase two.
Now, let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say that these changes were already planned and already in motion - there was no way to stop the trolly.
Do you see why I say that’s even worse?
Why introduce this in stages at all?
Introducing something in stages should allow for the stages to be spaced out so that feedback can be taken into account and course-correction can be taken.
If there’s either no intention or ability to take community feedback into account during the testing / stages phase and no course correction will take place until the final stage, then simply introduce the final draft of what the Valiant EQ will be.
Is it just me or the dialogues aren't showing? For me personally it sucks big time, please implement the story dialogues in this Valiant eq format as well.
I understand this is a test run, but I have to say none of these changes make sense. You choose 3 Champs, but you can only use one at a time without Degen. Literally the same as swapping one at a time. Fighting the Boss 3 times is completely redundant. The whole Quest seems needlessly tedious, and not in a challenging way.
I understand this is a test run, but I have to say none of these changes make sense. You choose 3 Champs, but you can only use one at a time without Degen. Literally the same as swapping one at a time. Fighting the Boss 3 times is completely redundant. The whole Quest seems needlessly tedious, and not in a challenging way.
Quest 5 and 6 you gotta fight it 6 times... So tedious and unnecessary.
I understand this is a test run, but I have to say none of these changes make sense. You choose 3 Champs, but you can only use one at a time without Degen. Literally the same as swapping one at a time. Fighting the Boss 3 times is completely redundant. The whole Quest seems needlessly tedious, and not in a challenging way.
Quest 5 and 6 you gotta fight it 6 times... So tedious and unnecessary.
It’s funny that people are looking at the degen and thinking it means you could re-use a champ. I’m pretty sure that degen node only exists because their current tech doesn’t allow them to eliminate the champs after you use them. Like I said in a different thread, this format is the worst of all worlds.
It’s funny that people are looking at the degen and thinking it means you could re-use a champ. I’m pretty sure that degen node only exists because their current tech doesn’t allow them to eliminate the champs after you use them. Like I said in a different thread, this format is the worst of all worlds.
You are probably right, someone resetting a quest wouldn't want to wait on a refresh timer like incursions to try again.
It’s funny that people are looking at the degen and thinking it means you could re-use a champ. I’m pretty sure that degen node only exists because their current tech doesn’t allow them to eliminate the champs after you use them. Like I said in a different thread, this format is the worst of all worlds.
It still begs the question, why in the hell did they change it? The last iteration achieved that. You fight, you swap.
It’s funny that people are looking at the degen and thinking it means you could re-use a champ. I’m pretty sure that degen node only exists because their current tech doesn’t allow them to eliminate the champs after you use them. Like I said in a different thread, this format is the worst of all worlds.
It still begs the question, why in the hell did they change it? The last iteration achieved that. You fight, you swap.
Because this iteration was already built and put into the update build prior to any feedback. It's not rocket science. They told us when valiant eq was first announced the first 3 were all beta style tests.
It’s funny that people are looking at the degen and thinking it means you could re-use a champ. I’m pretty sure that degen node only exists because their current tech doesn’t allow them to eliminate the champs after you use them. Like I said in a different thread, this format is the worst of all worlds.
It still begs the question, why in the hell did they change it? The last iteration achieved that. You fight, you swap.
Because this iteration was already built and put into the update build prior to any feedback. It's not rocket science. They told us when valiant eq was first announced the first 3 were all beta style tests.
Well, fair enough. My feedback is the same, though. Not a fan of this.
I would've preferred one path instead 2 paths in quests 4-6. The switching champs isn't an issue to me with my roster size, but I think a way for healing like halfway or something would have been nice. I think smaller valiant players would benefit from not have to fight the boss 3 times, maybe 2 times with the halfway healing point after the first round would make it less tedious. Like in the first section you are "locked" to one champion when fighting the boss for the first time can be challenging to some. Especially with The Maker and H.E. this round. Not sure if everyone is able to solo the champs with 3 different champs in a quest (really 7 ilchamps without burning through health potions and revives...
I honestly love the three champions at a time in theory, but I feel like this isn’t its final form. This mechanic has much more potential and I feel the selection restrictions makes player benefit a little less than.
There’s an added layer of planning and strategy, which is nice. But any benefits the player might gain from having a team of three are really hampered by the restrictions. Even Synergy use is unlikely to be a factor for the majority of occasions.
I dunno, I like it and yet also feel like it’s just not hitting the spot. Ultimately, I think this specific mechanic has a place in the game, just not here. I think I prefer the swap out every fight version.
I use this three champion version down below though, so it’s clearly not a break item for me. I just felt like it was a little less than.
I’m not pressed about the degen, it’s forcing us to use a new champion every fight - so in a sense, there’s no spiritual difference than the previous two months. The intent is the same. The application does make this version worse however - at least from the player perspective. Simply because there are now more opportunities for failure.
The Quests
The first half feels nice. A little wonky but I mention why below. I like the node combinations and moving parts.
The second half… oh boy.
Quest 1 - 3 (nearly identical)
Enjoyed them overall.
Some bugs with the selector nodes - final boss only allowed the one class even though it says you should be able to yea either or. Initial gate allows you to select both classes.
Quest 4 - 6
….
Okay, I will admit that 1-3 felt a bit too smooth.
Personally I think the difficulty could increase a tad. Don’t care if it’s the unpopular opinion, it’s true for me.
I thought the defenders were good, the amount of fights was perfect - actually in my proposal I include one more fight. I thought the nodes were good but there was just something lacking.
But Quest 4 - 6 was not it.
This is everything I hated about the first two months, multiplied and exacerbated to the nth degree.
This was not an enjoyable experience. This is not something I would look forward to every month.
And I don’t mean this in a “man, that was challenging and sucked” kind of way. I mean that as in “Oh hey… I’ve put the kettle on but it doesn’t actually boil water unless it’s being watched. Can you watch it for me? Thanks. Oh one more thing. There’s actually twelve of them and none of them will boil until one of them is boiling already.
Also… this little kid is going to punch you in the shoulder constantly. Don’t worry, it doesn’t hurt, but you can’t react or stop them and it’s always going to be in the exact same spot.
Thanks again.”
——
Overall Design
I feel like you should separate all the bosses if the intent is to limit the class for the node during the path but open it up during the bosses. It also feels weird that the first three fights includes a boss (so it’s two and a boss) then it’s three fights with a separate boss, three fights and a separate boss.
As for the boss fights (all); I actually lean towards allowing only a single champion. You do the path, hit the boss, you’re limited to select a single champion, then afterwards you swap out and get three champions again.
The way it is punishes players no matter what and only serves to limit rosters even further. “Solo the boss? Nice, thanks for taking three champions with you and even though you didn’t touch the other two, discard them.” “What’s that, you needed all three champions for the boss? Glad to hear it was a challenging fight but you overcame it anyway, now use some items so you can swap your KO’d champions out and continue”
If you’re going to force us to bring three champions against the boss, the swap node after should allow for us to decide whether or not we swap, or should allow for the incoming champions to have health (maybe like 20% if swapping out a KO’d champion)
Also - am I mistaken or wasn’t our entire roster available to us the past two months? Not opposed to increased restrictions, just curious if I’m misremembering.
It almost feels like you couldn’t really decide on a direction and got caught in the middle. “More fights or fewer fights” “Maintain restrictions as are or more restrictive?”
I would prefer the way it was: swap out champion after every fight - restrictions in play - boss: fewer restrictions.
But I do give my thoughts on this segmented format below.
——
Segmented Design
While I stated above that I think I prefer the swap a champion after every fight method, if you’re going to do this “select three and fight three” format then this is almost exactly what I would want it to be.
I have two thoughts for this format - in both of these options I maintain the cross fight degen, node balance and numbers of fights.
~*~
Option One
One path with Three segments and three boss fights.
Segment one - Not too much changes, champion selection is limited to two classes, the nodes work alongside as well as against your champion and thematically benefit one of the two classes but don’t overtly punish champions who go against the “node theme”
Player gets Three Champions and fights three defenders. The cross-fight degen gets put on a champion after they KO an opponent.
After the third defender is a Swap node right before the first boss fight.
Players can select three champions, now limited to one class. Fight the boss. The cross-fight degen gets put on a champion after they KO an opponent.
Swap Node after the boss is optional. Players are not forced to swap out champions - allowing them to carry over any of the three. However, cross-fight degen is still applied to any champion who KO’d the boss.
Segment two and three are identical.
Final boss after segment three defenders however limits you to one single champion, no restrictions.
All six chapters are the same.
~*~
Option Two
Identical to the above except every boss fight only allows a single champion to be used. No restrictions, but in segments one and two restrictions will clearly return after the fight.
——
Rewards
For 1 - 3 the rewards honestly feel a touch too generous. As I said I do feel like the difficulty here can come up a smidge considering the rewards.
Note for what’s about to follow, I said difficulty.
For 4 - 6 you’ve more than doubled the amount of work we have to do.
More fights =/= more difficulty.
So factoring this in and comparing it to the previous Valiant EQ we are a now doing 114 fights in the Valiant EQ vs the 96 we were doing the previous two months.
Absolutely no change to rewards.
You didn’t increase the difficulty, you increased the amount of work we have to do.
You set the value for valiant AQ.
Whether or not the players feel like the rewards are generous, a rip off or right on the mark; you set the value.
Why would you then increase the amount of work we have to do by about 18% and expect that leaving the rewards as the same would be acceptable?
We asked for it to be more difficult and less tedious. Quest 4 - 6 is not just a step in the opposite direction, it’s a full on sprint.
Quest 1 - 3 absolutely hit that spot in regards to enjoyment for me. Give or take what I’ve mentioned above. Almost perfect number of fights, personally I would say increase the difficulty a bit and I think this is it.
This format for July is awful. I much prefer last months format. Swapping out 3 champions at a time is pointless - either way you need to plan in advance. If anything the stakes feel higher in last months format because you are relegated to one champ per fight; if you bring a non-optimal counter you are stuck. Here if you enter a fight with the wrong champ and they die, you can just use one of the other 3 to finish the job (granted they don’t have the degen debuff already). Then revive the first champ for the next fight.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE DONT WANT TO FIGHT THE BOSSES 6 TIMES THAT IS SUCH A POTENTIAL RESOURCE WASTE FOR BS BOSSES ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING EVERY OTHER NEW CHAMP IS A BS DEFENDER.
“I know how to make the monthly event quest better, make the Summoners fight annihilus 6 times!!”
I’d like to preserve my resources for endgame Everest content, not the monthly EQ. I’m fine dropping a couple revives if I mess up but I don’t want to waste them to deal with BS bosses that I have to fight multiple times for no apparent reason. Bosses are bosses for a reason, you fight them once at the END!
Torch's ferocity doesn't even work in Quest 1. I select saga champs and cosmic shows up and we know damn well we need skill to enter as well. And guess what no skill champs are saga so how exactly is it a good idea to put Torch's ferocity node in Quest 1 when skill class have none of them.🤦
Torch's ferocity doesn't even work in Quest 1. I select saga champs and cosmic shows up and we know damn well we need skill to enter as well. And guess what no skill champs are saga so how exactly is it a good idea to put Torch's ferocity node in Quest 1 when skill class have none of them.🤦
That's due to a bad design. If you notice on All quests on the first part of the path the "Boss" is on the path. So 2 fights and Boss. It lets you pick both classes because of that reason. Second and 3rd part the boss is after the selector. Basically they want you to use 1 class for the "Boss" and 1 class for the path itself; the 1st section just makes it confusing for no reason.
New valiant eq sucks. Having the same boss 3 times is really annoying. Especially annihilus that I have to fight 6 times. C'mon who though that was a great idea.
New valiant gauntlet is really bad. At first, I thought kabam did a good job by reducing number of fights but later, I reached quest 4 then I realised that they didn't shortened number of fights at all. They only made it worse. We are still doing same number of fights. They put everything towards the end with multiple paths . Now we have fight the boss 3 times as well. Switching one champion was much easier than 3 champions and accidentally start a fight with same champion that we used before and we die fast because of that particular node . I don't see what's good about new design. I am not saying anyone wrong or right here .it's just my personal view.
My conclusion is , this is definitely not an improvement in my opinion. It's only more work than before. I feel like grinding is still intensive here. I rather fight boss once than 3 times over and over again. If you accidentally start a fight with champions that you used before then you die. You really have to be carefully with picking 3 champions on swapping node points. I hope, you switch back to 15 fights than this new design.
I still don't understand how the portals were a problem, they were one way, there wasn t any chance to go somewhere else by accident, yet ppl wanted them out, ok, thus they gave kabam a way to "fix" something that was minor and not troubling at all, and say "we listened" afterwards. This is all on you portal haters.
I am not happy all tohether ,long and difficult ,like act9 for me was easier..here every boss to beat 3 times oh come on😡 and ftrom chpt4 2 line too, EQ suppose to be fun and not challenging like acts ....
I normally don't comment on things like this, but the new version of the valiant eq is horrible. Last month there was 96 fights to get it done now this month there is 114 fights. Chapters 1-3 were not bad 10 fights then get to Chapter 4 and have to do 28 fights it's just a little on the long side. With so much to do in game eq is something I'd like to spend no more that 15 minutes per quest on. I appreciate the change up so it's not grinding tb eq slow but it kind of feels like this version is going back that way. I appreciate kabam for putting out a game I enjoy and hopefully they can find a way to keep eq fun
Its the same thing except u get some synergies and it saves time having to swap every fight idk what the problem is except some people can't use their heads. Alot of these comments is testimony to that. Lol it's better than the other valiant eq except I'd like to see some relic sig stones in something u don't have to pay for.
Comments
Great work again ⬇️
Let’s break this down.
After both months of the Valiant EQ player feedback was pretty much consistent: great rewards - maybe even a little too good, difficulty feels okay but content takes too long because the fights are tedious and there’s too many of them. Please rebalance as fewer fights with a little bit more difficulty would be perfect. Longer fights =/= difficult fights. More fights =/= more difficulty.
Give or take, that was the summary of feedback from the community both times.
So players - Kabam’s beta testers in this scenario - provided this feedback. Kabam moves ahead with the intended changes so we shift into phase two of this test.
Now, the implemented changes were clearly just going to exacerbate the issues players had with the format and the major complaints players made.
I say clearly because even if it wasn’t known in advance, the received feedback tells us this.
Regardless, shifting to phase two.
Now, let’s give the benefit of the doubt and say that these changes were already planned and already in motion - there was no way to stop the trolly.
Do you see why I say that’s even worse?
Why introduce this in stages at all?
Introducing something in stages should allow for the stages to be spaced out so that feedback can be taken into account and course-correction can be taken.
If there’s either no intention or ability to take community feedback into account during the testing / stages phase and no course correction will take place until the final stage, then simply introduce the final draft of what the Valiant EQ will be.
So tedious and unnecessary.
We asked for no more portals and they listened!!!
Its like the have amazing hearing for the small things.
Like in the first section you are "locked" to one champion when fighting the boss for the first time can be challenging to some. Especially with The Maker and H.E. this round. Not sure if everyone is able to solo the champs with 3 different champs in a quest (really 7 ilchamps without burning through health potions and revives...
I honestly love the three champions at a time in theory, but I feel like this isn’t its final form. This mechanic has much more potential and I feel the selection restrictions makes player benefit a little less than.
There’s an added layer of planning and strategy, which is nice. But any benefits the player might gain from having a team of three are really hampered by the restrictions. Even Synergy use is unlikely to be a factor for the majority of occasions.
I dunno, I like it and yet also feel like it’s just not hitting the spot. Ultimately, I think this specific mechanic has a place in the game, just not here. I think I prefer the swap out every fight version.
I use this three champion version down below though, so it’s clearly not a break item for me. I just felt like it was a little less than.
I’m not pressed about the degen, it’s forcing us to use a new champion every fight - so in a sense, there’s no spiritual difference than the previous two months. The intent is the same. The application does make this version worse however - at least from the player perspective. Simply because there are now more opportunities for failure.
The Quests
The first half feels nice. A little wonky but I mention why below. I like the node combinations and moving parts.
The second half… oh boy.
Quest 1 - 3 (nearly identical)
Enjoyed them overall.
Some bugs with the selector nodes - final boss only allowed the one class even though it says you should be able to yea either or. Initial gate allows you to select both classes.
Quest 4 - 6
….
Okay, I will admit that 1-3 felt a bit too smooth.
Personally I think the difficulty could increase a tad. Don’t care if it’s the unpopular opinion, it’s true for me.
I thought the defenders were good, the amount of fights was perfect - actually in my proposal I include one more fight. I thought the nodes were good but there was just something lacking.
But Quest 4 - 6 was not it.
This is everything I hated about the first two months, multiplied and exacerbated to the nth degree.
This was not an enjoyable experience. This is not something I would look forward to every month.
And I don’t mean this in a “man, that was challenging and sucked” kind of way. I mean that as in “Oh hey… I’ve put the kettle on but it doesn’t actually boil water unless it’s being watched. Can you watch it for me? Thanks. Oh one more thing. There’s actually twelve of them and none of them will boil until one of them is boiling already.
Also… this little kid is going to punch you in the shoulder constantly. Don’t worry, it doesn’t hurt, but you can’t react or stop them and it’s always going to be in the exact same spot.
Thanks again.”
——
Overall Design
I feel like you should separate all the bosses if the intent is to limit the class for the node during the path but open it up during the bosses. It also feels weird that the first three fights includes a boss (so it’s two and a boss) then it’s three fights with a separate boss, three fights and a separate boss.
As for the boss fights (all); I actually lean towards allowing only a single champion. You do the path, hit the boss, you’re limited to select a single champion, then afterwards you swap out and get three champions again.
The way it is punishes players no matter what and only serves to limit rosters even further. “Solo the boss? Nice, thanks for taking three champions with you and even though you didn’t touch the other two, discard them.” “What’s that, you needed all three champions for the boss? Glad to hear it was a challenging fight but you overcame it anyway, now use some items so you can swap your KO’d champions out and continue”
If you’re going to force us to bring three champions against the boss, the swap node after should allow for us to decide whether or not we swap, or should allow for the incoming champions to have health (maybe like 20% if swapping out a KO’d champion)
Also - am I mistaken or wasn’t our entire roster available to us the past two months? Not opposed to increased restrictions, just curious if I’m misremembering.
It almost feels like you couldn’t really decide on a direction and got caught in the middle. “More fights or fewer fights” “Maintain restrictions as are or more restrictive?”
I would prefer the way it was: swap out champion after every fight - restrictions in play - boss: fewer restrictions.
But I do give my thoughts on this segmented format below.
——
Segmented Design
While I stated above that I think I prefer the swap a champion after every fight method, if you’re going to do this “select three and fight three” format then this is almost exactly what I would want it to be.
I have two thoughts for this format - in both of these options I maintain the cross fight degen, node balance and numbers of fights.
~*~
Option One
One path with Three segments and three boss fights.
Segment one - Not too much changes, champion selection is limited to two classes, the nodes work alongside as well as against your champion and thematically benefit one of the two classes but don’t overtly punish champions who go against the “node theme”
Player gets Three Champions and fights three defenders. The cross-fight degen gets put on a champion after they KO an opponent.
After the third defender is a Swap node right before the first boss fight.
Players can select three champions, now limited to one class. Fight the boss. The cross-fight degen gets put on a champion after they KO an opponent.
Swap Node after the boss is optional. Players are not forced to swap out champions - allowing them to carry over any of the three. However, cross-fight degen is still applied to any champion who KO’d the boss.
Segment two and three are identical.
Final boss after segment three defenders however limits you to one single champion, no restrictions.
All six chapters are the same.
~*~
Option Two
Identical to the above except every boss fight only allows a single champion to be used. No restrictions, but in segments one and two restrictions will clearly return after the fight.
——
Rewards
For 1 - 3 the rewards honestly feel a touch too generous. As I said I do feel like the difficulty here can come up a smidge considering the rewards.
Note for what’s about to follow, I said difficulty.
For 4 - 6 you’ve more than doubled the amount of work we have to do.
More fights =/= more difficulty.
So factoring this in and comparing it to the previous Valiant EQ we are a now doing 114 fights in the Valiant EQ vs the 96 we were doing the previous two months.
Absolutely no change to rewards.
You didn’t increase the difficulty, you increased the amount of work we have to do.
You set the value for valiant AQ.
Whether or not the players feel like the rewards are generous, a rip off or right on the mark; you set the value.
Why would you then increase the amount of work we have to do by about 18% and expect that leaving the rewards as the same would be acceptable?
We asked for it to be more difficult and less tedious. Quest 4 - 6 is not just a step in the opposite direction, it’s a full on sprint.
Quest 1 - 3 absolutely hit that spot in regards to enjoyment for me. Give or take what I’ve mentioned above. Almost perfect number of fights, personally I would say increase the difficulty a bit and I think this is it.
——
Well… those are summaries of my thoughts.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE DONT WANT TO FIGHT THE BOSSES 6 TIMES THAT IS SUCH A POTENTIAL RESOURCE WASTE FOR BS BOSSES ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING EVERY OTHER NEW CHAMP IS A BS DEFENDER.
“I know how to make the monthly event quest better, make the Summoners fight annihilus 6 times!!”
I’d like to preserve my resources for endgame Everest content, not the monthly EQ. I’m fine dropping a couple revives if I mess up but I don’t want to waste them to deal with BS bosses that I have to fight multiple times for no apparent reason. Bosses are bosses for a reason, you fight them once at the END!
If you notice on All quests on the first part of the path the "Boss" is on the path. So 2 fights and Boss. It lets you pick both classes because of that reason. Second and 3rd part the boss is after the selector. Basically they want you to use 1 class for the "Boss" and 1 class for the path itself; the 1st section just makes it confusing for no reason.
My conclusion is , this is definitely not an improvement in my opinion. It's only more work than before. I feel like grinding is still intensive here. I rather fight boss once than 3 times over and over again. If you accidentally start a fight with champions that you used before then you die. You really have to be carefully with picking 3 champions on swapping node points. I hope, you switch back to 15 fights than this new design.
This is all on you portal haters.