Game Theory - Lootbox Poll

0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
edited January 2018 in General Discussion
[credit to Matpat from Game Theory youtube channel]
The future of lootboxes, is it gambling? Skittles, baseball cards use the same formula.

With gambling, you either win or don’t. Lootboxes still offer something and therefore circumvent “gambling” tag. But skittles also have various flavors, you may want more red than yellow and it’s related to lootboxes.

Game Theory - Lootbox Poll 39 votes

Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
66%
DL864BitterSteelHarcourtmazechaos3430FrostybuffajrJP1119Kenjhi21Alpha07ShrinidhiCaptain_AmazingMilkthewhalesSKK65SvainNexus_UY_ScutiPandamanTanG0311kuttMmx1991Elitehunter 26 votes
Lootboxes are not, keep current format and no regulation
33%
CoatHang3rdanielmathDropfaithAxeCopFireScottryanNomarigerolNOOOOOOOOPEEEEEDeadpool_42422112SgtAnime1_ASDF_Liss_Bliss_XFA_RebootedHubris_hater 13 votes

Comments

  • AnimatronicstoAnimatronicsto Posts: 194
    This is a horrible comparison. Skittles do not make any guarantees and each skittle is no different that the other other than color and taste. (I’m saying that they are only different based on your opinion). However “lootboxes” or crystals sometimes give champs that are STATISICALLY better. More stars equals better champ. 2*<3*<4*<5*
  • 0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
    I disagree. It’s not about now, but the future. Our children. It’s about the future of gaming. If everyone had your mentality then innovation wouldn’t exist.
  • 0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
    ok pls ignore the skittles comment.

    There is video. The point is more about whether or not lootboxes are gambling. If so, then so are Pokémon cards.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,928 ★★★★★
    Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
    For me, I see little to no difference between the most recent crystal offer (£10 for 5 void crystals) and betting or gambling on an app. The only difference to me (That, to be honest, doesn’t matter) is that you get money out of one and a 4* out of the other.

    Either way you are paying money at a chance to win a reward. Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on if kabam SHOULD disclose the odds, if they do then great. If not then I’ll carry on playing the game.
  • 0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
    I didn’t vote so how do you know my stance? I’m asking others to vote to invoke conversation about the subject. All ideas are welcome. My comment about innovation was in relation to your comment that the poll is pointless.

    If you think it’s pointless then be silent
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,928 ★★★★★
    Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
    Doesn't matter what we think at the end of the day, we don't make the rules/laws. At this moment in time the only country in the whole world that classes these as gambling is China, and the games got round it there the same day by adding "free" items

    So pointless poll really mate

    It does matter what we think, as a community we need a consensus on how we feel about things. I’m interested as to what people think, therefore it isn’t a pointless poll. Yours is a pointless post.
    ok pls ignore the skittles comment.

    There is video. The point is more about whether or not lootboxes are gambling. If so, then so are Pokémon cards.

    But they are NOT gambling mate. You need laws to change to make them classed as gambling, and that will take a long time

    Plus, I hope your not one of these who thinks DRs will be per character? If you have a 5* crystal for example, then the odds are 100% you get a 5*. It WONT be per character at all

    Whether the law says they are or not doesn’t mean that they are gambling or they aren’t. The law could be wrong. Or do you think that all laws are 100% right? The law on loot boxes (to my understanding, could be wrong) is that they aren’t gambling, but it could change. The law only dictates whether they are seen as gambling legally, emphasis on legally.

    I think drop rates will be per rank of champion. Eg 95% 2*, 4.5% 3* and 0.5% 4* for premium. Kabam have already stated that percentage for a particular champion is equal to all others unless explicitly stated (increased chance for Vulture for example)
  • 0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
    Guys,
    I did not say it’s gambling. Lootboxes are not.

    But...do we want it classified as gambling? If so, then it’s either a reward or nothing system.

    Casinos either offer reward or you lose. That is gambling. So do we want to keep the current system or do we want regulation?
  • 0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
    Sorry I think I did not make it clear. My question is what do you want:

    Classify lootboxes as gambling (reward or nothing system)

    Or do you NOT want it considered gambling (current state).

    My aplologies
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,928 ★★★★★
    Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
    I didn’t vote so how do you know my stance? I’m asking others to vote to invoke conversation about the subject. All ideas are welcome. My comment about innovation was in relation to your comment that the poll is pointless.

    If you think it’s pointless then be silent

    err no thanks, its a public forum. You posted so all could view and comment, so I will post what I want when I want. No need to be rude and entitled

    And it is a very pointless poll, do you really think anyone will even notice it, never mind make any changes because of it lol

    Ironic that you’re being rude to the OP. He’s having a discussion and you call it pointless?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,928 ★★★★★
    Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
    Doesn't matter what we think at the end of the day, we don't make the rules/laws. At this moment in time the only country in the whole world that classes these as gambling is China, and the games got round it there the same day by adding "free" items

    So pointless poll really mate

    It does matter what we think, as a community we need a consensus on how we feel about things. I’m interested as to what people think, therefore it isn’t a pointless poll. Yours is a pointless post.
    ok pls ignore the skittles comment.

    There is video. The point is more about whether or not lootboxes are gambling. If so, then so are Pokémon cards.

    But they are NOT gambling mate. You need laws to change to make them classed as gambling, and that will take a long time

    Plus, I hope your not one of these who thinks DRs will be per character? If you have a 5* crystal for example, then the odds are 100% you get a 5*. It WONT be per character at all

    Whether the law says they are or not doesn’t mean that they are gambling or they aren’t. The law could be wrong. Or do you think that all laws are 100% right? The law on loot boxes (to my understanding, could be wrong) is that they aren’t gambling, but it could change. The law only dictates whether they are seen as gambling legally, emphasis on legally.

    I think drop rates will be per rank of champion. Eg 95% 2*, 4.5% 3* and 0.5% 4* for premium. Kabam have already stated that percentage for a particular champion is equal to all others unless explicitly stated (increased chance for Vulture for example)

    Mate, what I or you think is pointless as I have explained. We dont have any power to change these. The law at the moment is the law, it will change, but at the moment it is not gambling, simple as that

    It’s pointless to you. But having a discussion about it is not pointless. You do not know what or who kabam are influenced by. You are assuming that they won’t be influenced by it so you call it pointless.

    I do not think it is pointless because I am interested by it and having a discussion about it.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,928 ★★★★★
    Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
    I didn’t vote so how do you know my stance? I’m asking others to vote to invoke conversation about the subject. All ideas are welcome. My comment about innovation was in relation to your comment that the poll is pointless.

    If you think it’s pointless then be silent

    err no thanks, its a public forum. You posted so all could view and comment, so I will post what I want when I want. No need to be rude and entitled

    And it is a very pointless poll, do you really think anyone will even notice it, never mind make any changes because of it lol

    Ironic that you’re being rude to the OP. He’s having a discussion and you call it pointless?

    How is that rude? Is the fact that the poll will have zero effect rude, and therefore it is pointless? Sorry, if the OP thinks that, was not trying to offend, was simply saying dont get your hopes up that it will achieve anything at all

    I don’t think Op was making this poll to enforce change in kabams policies. I’m pretty sure he didn’t expect kabam to go, “you know what this poll has made us rethink our whole crystal thing”.

    So the Op made this poll to have a discussion. Meaning you calling it pointless is rude.
  • 0chris9999999990chris999999999 Posts: 137
    Bitterateel gets it. It’s not so much about the poll but generating thoughtful discussion.

  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,928 ★★★★★
    edited January 2018
    Lootboxes are gambling and therefore, when opened either offer reward or NOTHING. Govt regulation
    I can tell that neither of us will budge. you can’t see that you’re being rude to the OP, I’ve said what I need to on this.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 301 ★★★
    The poll is flawed in 2 ways. First, it assumes when gambling you win something or nothing. That is not always how gambling works. Second, it assumes the government will require that to be the case.

    Gambling is not simply winning or getting nothing. I will give a few examples. If you buy a scratch off lottery ticket for $5 and win $2 you have a net gain of -$3, however, you did technically have a winning ticket. It is clearly classified as a winning ticket. If you spin a slot machine on a 40¢ bet and get a line hit for 30¢ the machine tells you that you won 30¢ when you clearly lost 10¢. It is classified, legally, as a win.

    If you bet $10 at a blackjack table and stand on 20 against a dealer 6, there are 4 possible outcomes: dealer busts and you win $10, dealer makes a hand of 17-19 and you win $10, dealer makes a 20 and you push (no money lost, no money gained) or the dealer makes a 21 and you lose $10. Of course the odds in the blackjack example of the four different outcomes are neither equal nor released by the casino to the general public. The information is available if you look for it or have the math skills to figure it out though.

    As far as government regulation on gambling goes the 2 options given are not a correct representation. In the US, casinos (non-native anyways) are required to release average payback percentages on their slot machines. These numbers mean nothing to most of the public except 93% is better than 92%. No casino tells you the odds of every possible outcome each spin of the machine. Casinos are not required to report the odds given by their table games either. The information is available if you look in the right places based on the rules offered by that casino, but the casino doesn't provide that info.

    I'm not going to give my opinion on whether I think loot boxes are gambling or not as I don't have a clear opinion one way or the other. It is true that it is very much like trading cards though. You keep buying packs until you get what you are after. Maybe you want a certain card or maybe you want a full set. Rarity of cards are not released when you make your purchase and you are taking a chance every time you make a purchase. Otoh, a case could be made that that is gambling as well. Opinions vary. Laws are also not always representative of what the public wants or needs.

    One last point: I don't think the poll is pointless, I just think it is flawed. The OP is seeking people's opinions in the matter and therefore that is the point.
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