@DNA3000 No one said decrease rewards what is being debated is whether defeating harder content with lower star weaker champs deserves higher rewards since the skill and level of difficulty are different.
I don't think you understood my point at all. You are in effect decreasing rewards for ranking up, if you are increasing rewards for not ranking up. That's a distinction without a difference.
I'm debating weather to rank another up or just save everything. If I get to the point where I have to use the isos and t4s I will. But I'm sailing through act 4 chapter 4 with 4* 5/50s. Do I want more 5s yes are they hard to get yes. So wait just like everyone has to. If you get lucky great.
This my current rotation and their good enough for every thing I need. Just finished master run on the monthly.
I wish I had a blade 5* or hyp, ice, spark, gwenpool, aa... but I don't. One day I will or I won't.... but I'll have all I need when the rng blesses me .
You should refresh your masteries. Ask for some tips if you need.
@DNA3000 No one said decrease rewards what is being debated is whether defeating harder content with lower star weaker champs deserves higher rewards since the skill and level of difficulty are different.
I don't think you understood my point at all. You are in effect decreasing rewards for ranking up, if you are increasing rewards for not ranking up. That's a distinction without a difference.
I don’t think you understand that just because you have a stacked 5* roster due to RNG means you have to use it. Using your lesser heroes because it can give you better rewards means you are using your skills to beat the game.
What is the point of using 4* heroes in content soon to be designed for 6* heroes or the current stuff designed for 5* if the rewards will be exactly the same. At least what I’m saying gives the lower star champs that people spent resources on more utility in the game if that is what they choose to do.
If can’t put in 3-4 hours per day your progress will stall in one part of the game or another
Even putting in 6+ hours per day will still leave you waiting for something. The more you're in the game, the more your wait revolves around catalysts. There is no way to "farm" catalysts in the same way you can with gold and units.
@DNA3000 No one said decrease rewards what is being debated is whether defeating harder content with lower star weaker champs deserves higher rewards since the skill and level of difficulty are different.
I don't think you understood my point at all. You are in effect decreasing rewards for ranking up, if you are increasing rewards for not ranking up. That's a distinction without a difference.
I don’t think you understand that just because you have a stacked 5* roster due to RNG means you have to use it. Using your lesser heroes because it can give you better rewards means you are using your skills to beat the game.
I understand what you're saying just fine. What you're asking for will never happen in any game designed around player progression in the general case. I'm not saying I don't want it to happen, I'm saying it will never happen as an absolute restriction on all games designed around progression in the same manner MCOC is, and there are no exceptions to this that I can think of anywhere in gaming. Every apparent exception is a game that isn't designed around progression as a core element of the game's reward system.
@Dexman1349 very true, which is why as a player you have to be selective on who you spend your resources on. Which gets back to the point of 5/50s probably not being worth it anymore. 5 T1As is a lot when you can just use 4/40s and wait until you get a good 5* and take it up to 3/45 and have a Champ that’s better than a 5/50. But until they come up with a better way to accumulate 5* shards progress is going to at a stand still for a lot of people.
None of this would be the case if not for the introduction of 6*
If can’t put in 3-4 hours per day your progress will stall in one part of the game or another
Even putting in 6+ hours per day will still leave you waiting for something. The more you're in the game, the more your wait revolves around catalysts. There is no way to "farm" catalysts in the same way you can with gold and units.
Even if you somehow managed to completely max out your rank up resources, what you will then be waiting for are champions to rank up. By definition your progress has to stall either by running out of rank up resources, or by running out of things to spend them on. Back when 5* champions were first introduced and 5* shards were rare and just after Kabam increased the availability of T4CC, it was actually possible to literally run out of things to rank up.
I understand what you're saying just fine. What you're asking for will never happen in any game designed around player progression in the general case. I'm not saying I don't want it to happen, I'm saying it will never happen as an absolute restriction on all games designed around progression in the same manner MCOC is, and there are no exceptions to this that I can think of anywhere in gaming. Every apparent exception is a game that isn't designed around progression as a core element of the game's reward system.
You ever here of God Mode in games where you can beat the game but you don’t get to see the ending scenes or get the final reward. Those things are reserved for people who use skill and beat the game on insane mode.
Kabam scaled things back a bit with 12.0 some good and some bad. Dr Strange was almost unkillable in this game, Thor with a few armor breaks and a special was hitting harder than SL with a 200 hit combo, SW was the best and most sought after champ in the game because she could do everything. I had none of those champs prior to 12.0 Part of what you are failing to see is that progression in this game is based on RNG, nothing to do with time spent playing, level of skill, or even money.
T4CCs RNG, gold RNG from BC, Class Awakening Gems RNG, units from BC RNG.
Sorry but not many games put that much of their content in RNG over actual skill for progression
It takes more skill to clear Act 5 with 4* champs than it does with 4/55 and soon to be 6* Champs, the rewards shouldn’t be the same. My 5/50 SL can take down Winter Soldier in 149 hits no suicides with the Mutant crit team. How many hits with a 5* SL, I’m sure a lot less. The faster you can end fights the easier the game is. Rewards should reflect the difficulty of the play
Funny, so if I use Sentry, I should be given 5k 5* shards for that fight or what?
@DNA3000 I'm getting close to that threshold of not having anything else to rank up. All of my 1* champs are maxed. Half of my 2* and 3* are maxed and the other half are waiting on cats (which I'm not actively working to get because of energy limits). 90% of my 4* are at 3/30 (would be 100% if I wasn't preserving T1A) and a third of those are R4+. Literally every champ I have either has a green star (maxed) or an up arrow (max level). Without more cats, my iso is only another source of gold as I sell it off before it expires.
@Blax4ever None of this makes 5/50's irrelevant though. By your own point, you say most players have to wait weeks for their next 5* pull. You then make the assumption that 5* you pull is actually worth ranking up. Why would you dump valuable resources into a 5* Groot if you also have a 4* Hype? What if you pulled a 4* Blade and a 5* Netflix DD or 4* Magik and a 5* Jane Foster?
Those 4* champ at 5/50 can be significantly more valuable than 70% of the available 5* pool at R3. And those 4* champs are significantly easier to pull than the "luck of the draw" from the 5* crystal simply due to the respective numbers of each crystal you can get.
In 13 months of gameplay (basically free-to-play), I have averaged one 5* champ per month. Out of those 13 pulls, I have 3 champs that are worth ranking beyond R2 (requiring class cats). If I had stockpiled my resources waiting for those 5* champs instead of R5ing my 4* roster, there's no way I would be Uncollected, done with ROL, or even 100% exploring monthly Master quests.
The next question is, are you going to then stop ranking up your rare 5* champs to save resources for your insanely rare 6* champ?
I still think certain 4* champs are worth bringing up to 5/50, especially if you need that champ for their utility or to help with a certain part of the game. Just because 6* champs are coming to the game doesn't mean that 4* champs are now going to become obsolete or the "new 3*s".
To put it in perspective; I have a 5/65 blade, 4/55 hyperion, and 4/55 SL but no decent 5* with power control or immunity. So I brought my 4* Doctor Voodoo and Iceman both up to 5/50 and they helped tremendously in getting through 100% exploring Act 5. So to answer your question, yes they are still worth bringing up to R5 but it also depends on what champion it is.
It will be awhile before the majority of the community even has a duped or R2 6*. I think it will also be awhile before the majority of the community even has their first 5/65 5* champion. So don't worry man, 4* champs will still be useful for awhile in my opinion.
@Dexman1349 look at my comment in its entirety you are leaving out the part where I say that more rewards should be awarded for players clearing hard content with lower star champs. As Kabam stated the newer parts of the game are designed for 5* champs and the coming parts of the game will be designed for 6* champs. I think we agree that the new content is more challenging with 4* champs than with 5* champs.
So the question is can we agree that offering more rewards for using 3* and 4* Champs would keep the community as a whole using these champs in the future. Think about how many people are only opening 4* crystals just to get 5* shards from dupes.
I think there are a few 4* worth 5/50 as well as I think there are some 5* that shouldn't go higher than rank 1. Who you are going to level up depend only on your roster/needs.
Took me way too long to get decent offensive 5* champs so I did act 5 100% only with 4* and it wasn't that bad (only used 5/50 champs). I find my 4* AA 5/50 much more useful than my r3 5* storm.
@mfleury a r4/55 Dr Voodoo has triple the attack power of a 5/50. That’s a huge advantage when taking on some of the necessary content like Act 5. You got the same rewards that someone with a 4/55 SL, Voodoo, GP, AA, etc but you did it with 4* Champs they did it with god Mode and you did it on Insane Mode.
Notice we aren’t hearing people bragging about they did it with 3* champs.
My guess is Act 6 will be here around summer with a new season of AQ both designed for 5* and 6* Champs. If they make it for 4* champs it will be to easy for the 5* and 6* Champs.
@mfleury a r4/55 Dr Voodoo has triple the attack power of a 5/50. That’s a huge advantage when taking on some of the necessary content like Act 5. You got the same rewards that someone with a 4/55 SL, Voodoo, GP, AA, etc but you did it with 4* Champs they did it with god Mode and you did it on Insane Mode.
Notice we aren’t hearing people bragging about they did it with 3* champs.
My guess is Act 6 will be here around summer with a new season of AQ both designed for 5* and 6* Champs. If they make it for 4* champs it will be to easy for the 5* and 6* Champs.
I agree with you, it's much easier with a dv 4/55 but I don't have one and most of the people don't as well. So, while you don't get a God tier 5*, you should rank up some 4* God tier that help you.
Voodoo is one of the best champs for act 5, even 4* he was more effective for me than someone like my captain marvel 5* r4.
5star becomes stronger at rank4 than 5/50 4star. It takes 4 t2alphas to rank4 5star. 11x4=44.
So unless you have 44 t2alphas (among other resources) to rank4 11 5stars (3 for aq, 3 for war attack, 5 for war defense), then I don't see how 4stars are becoming irrelevant.
@DiablosUltimate I have 12 5/50s now a few of which are maxed and most 1 dupe away from max. I could rank more of them up but the question is it worth it at this point in the game.
My luck with 5* pulls has been terrible and I don’t mean terrible like oh I got Capt Marvel and not Blade bad but like i save for a featured and pulled Groot, Falcon, and Red Cyclops Bad. I have 12 altogether with ZERO awakened 11 of which are still at r1. Look at it this way it will cost me 20k shards to make Falcon usable. It takes too long to accumulate shards, granted it has gotten better but the thought of having to do uncollected monthly EQs with only 4* having to fight a noded up maxed out Boss FIVE times is way too much to only get 3/4 of a crystal. Master Mode is perfect for my 5/50s but 1500 Shards is a joke
I have about 10 or 11 5/50
Champs and 1 good unduped 5* Champ, Elecktra at r3. My other 5* Champs are at r1 all unduped
I have ZERO 6* shards my last two 5* pulls were Groot and Falcon. It takes too much time and effort to get 5* shards they need to be as easily obtainable as 4* shards or reduce the cost. 4K for 5* Champs is reasonable
If you complete Act 5 with 4* heroes the rewards should be doubled same for the uncollected EQ. If people are spending resources to achieve the same outcome that people who have higher ranked Champs the rewards should be better.
No need to nerf just make the rewards better for players who use skill.
4* 5/50s do well as AW defenders.
Once you build your roster enough you get 5* shards from close to if not every 4* crystal you open, and there are players who can say the same for getting 6* shards for almost every time they open 5* crystals.
I don't agree with your suggestion about getting increased rewards for completing Act 5 with 4*s, and I explored 5.1-5.3 with only 4*s except for using a 3/45 unduped Dr. Voodoo on one path of 5.3.1. Attempting challenging content is the best way to improve your skills in this game, especially with weaker than recommended champions. Complete Act 4 and master level event quests with a combination of 3*s and 4*s, Act 5 with mostly 4*s, Road to the Labyrinth with the right 3/30 or 4/40 4*s, and so on and your skills will improve tremendously. Then when you get your first legit 5* and even more so your first legit awakened 5* you'll tear through all content except labyrinth of legends (unless you awaken a 5* Star Lord, Blade, or Stark-Enhanced Spider-Man).
Be patient with the grind and you'll get to where you want to be. And Falcon is underrated, his redwing ability disables Magik's limbo and other annoying abilities that come up frequently in AW.
@DTMelodicMetal I have 75 4* Champs, I’m at a point in progression where it may not make sense to rank up 4* to 5/50.
We disagree, I feel Skill should be recognized and rewarded and i wouldnt stop with 4* I think using 3* to clear content specifically designed for 5* Champs should give great rewards too not the same stuff people playing on God Mode with the best and highest ranked champs get. Those rewards are fine and they shouldn’t be changed.
Let’s agree on things that will keep lower star champs relevant because right now 4* Champs will be irrelevant in about 18 months and 3* will be completely dead
They are still used quite a bit for aw defense. A lot of the 4* duped at 5/50 are better defenders than unduped 3/45 5*
I don’t know the answer to this question but how well would a 5/50 hold up on defense vs r2 6* especially when we are talking about Void, Morningstar, Gulk, Bishop, Sentinel.
The lack of gold may be the only thing saving 5/50s.
By December they may be all but done, in terms of competitive AW play. I thought they had at least 18 months but man this sucks
I’m in a top 100 alliance in tier 2 on the verge of being in plat 1. I can tell you they are still useful. We had 2 5/50s get 3+ kills in my bg. December is a really long way away. Also, not sure who will be ranking 6* unless you can dupe a decent one. I would rather rank 5 my duped MS over a nonduped one. Unless you are up in the top tiers you shouldn’t even be concerned. Most 5/65 and 4/55 champs blow through almost any node in aw anyway
I have 38 four stars maxed and I hope to do more. I think it's still needed to rank up four stars. With diversity in wars it helps. And depending on what resource you have the most of it help to control expiring items. Four stars use less alphas but more basic and five stars are the opposite they use more alphas but less basic. So you will need to rank up depending on what you have the most of
Except for my Ultron and AA at r3 my main line up is:
5/50 Voodoo, GP, Hulk, Rulk Magik, LC, NC, Angela, SL, Ronan(gem), SW, Wolvy, X23, Guillotine, Dorm, Thor, Iceman, Rogue, CB, SMSE, ULTRON AGAIN, and Loki
They are mostly r5 with a few being under but I have full intent to rank them unless 5* variants make them redundant as Angela, X23, and CB make little use of their signature aside from minor improvements (the same can be of a few others) or I’d say I get a better alternative to the niche im trying to fill as a 5* (Elektra over CB, or in NC’s case 5* unduped is better than 4* Duped as defender giving me best of both)
For many champs 5/50 as a niche ability or being god tier IS viable
Comments
I don't think you understood my point at all. You are in effect decreasing rewards for ranking up, if you are increasing rewards for not ranking up. That's a distinction without a difference.
You should refresh your masteries. Ask for some tips if you need.
I don’t think you understand that just because you have a stacked 5* roster due to RNG means you have to use it. Using your lesser heroes because it can give you better rewards means you are using your skills to beat the game.
What is the point of using 4* heroes in content soon to be designed for 6* heroes or the current stuff designed for 5* if the rewards will be exactly the same. At least what I’m saying gives the lower star champs that people spent resources on more utility in the game if that is what they choose to do.
Even putting in 6+ hours per day will still leave you waiting for something. The more you're in the game, the more your wait revolves around catalysts. There is no way to "farm" catalysts in the same way you can with gold and units.
I understand what you're saying just fine. What you're asking for will never happen in any game designed around player progression in the general case. I'm not saying I don't want it to happen, I'm saying it will never happen as an absolute restriction on all games designed around progression in the same manner MCOC is, and there are no exceptions to this that I can think of anywhere in gaming. Every apparent exception is a game that isn't designed around progression as a core element of the game's reward system.
None of this would be the case if not for the introduction of 6*
Even if you somehow managed to completely max out your rank up resources, what you will then be waiting for are champions to rank up. By definition your progress has to stall either by running out of rank up resources, or by running out of things to spend them on. Back when 5* champions were first introduced and 5* shards were rare and just after Kabam increased the availability of T4CC, it was actually possible to literally run out of things to rank up.
You ever here of God Mode in games where you can beat the game but you don’t get to see the ending scenes or get the final reward. Those things are reserved for people who use skill and beat the game on insane mode.
Kabam scaled things back a bit with 12.0 some good and some bad. Dr Strange was almost unkillable in this game, Thor with a few armor breaks and a special was hitting harder than SL with a 200 hit combo, SW was the best and most sought after champ in the game because she could do everything. I had none of those champs prior to 12.0 Part of what you are failing to see is that progression in this game is based on RNG, nothing to do with time spent playing, level of skill, or even money.
T4CCs RNG, gold RNG from BC, Class Awakening Gems RNG, units from BC RNG.
Sorry but not many games put that much of their content in RNG over actual skill for progression
Funny, so if I use Sentry, I should be given 5k 5* shards for that fight or what?
@Blax4ever None of this makes 5/50's irrelevant though. By your own point, you say most players have to wait weeks for their next 5* pull. You then make the assumption that 5* you pull is actually worth ranking up. Why would you dump valuable resources into a 5* Groot if you also have a 4* Hype? What if you pulled a 4* Blade and a 5* Netflix DD or 4* Magik and a 5* Jane Foster?
Those 4* champ at 5/50 can be significantly more valuable than 70% of the available 5* pool at R3. And those 4* champs are significantly easier to pull than the "luck of the draw" from the 5* crystal simply due to the respective numbers of each crystal you can get.
In 13 months of gameplay (basically free-to-play), I have averaged one 5* champ per month. Out of those 13 pulls, I have 3 champs that are worth ranking beyond R2 (requiring class cats). If I had stockpiled my resources waiting for those 5* champs instead of R5ing my 4* roster, there's no way I would be Uncollected, done with ROL, or even 100% exploring monthly Master quests.
The next question is, are you going to then stop ranking up your rare 5* champs to save resources for your insanely rare 6* champ?
To put it in perspective; I have a 5/65 blade, 4/55 hyperion, and 4/55 SL but no decent 5* with power control or immunity. So I brought my 4* Doctor Voodoo and Iceman both up to 5/50 and they helped tremendously in getting through 100% exploring Act 5. So to answer your question, yes they are still worth bringing up to R5 but it also depends on what champion it is.
It will be awhile before the majority of the community even has a duped or R2 6*. I think it will also be awhile before the majority of the community even has their first 5/65 5* champion. So don't worry man, 4* champs will still be useful for awhile in my opinion.
So the question is can we agree that offering more rewards for using 3* and 4* Champs would keep the community as a whole using these champs in the future. Think about how many people are only opening 4* crystals just to get 5* shards from dupes.
Took me way too long to get decent offensive 5* champs so I did act 5 100% only with 4* and it wasn't that bad (only used 5/50 champs). I find my 4* AA 5/50 much more useful than my r3 5* storm.
Notice we aren’t hearing people bragging about they did it with 3* champs.
My guess is Act 6 will be here around summer with a new season of AQ both designed for 5* and 6* Champs. If they make it for 4* champs it will be to easy for the 5* and 6* Champs.
I agree with you, it's much easier with a dv 4/55 but I don't have one and most of the people don't as well. So, while you don't get a God tier 5*, you should rank up some 4* God tier that help you.
Voodoo is one of the best champs for act 5, even 4* he was more effective for me than someone like my captain marvel 5* r4.
So unless you have 44 t2alphas (among other resources) to rank4 11 5stars (3 for aq, 3 for war attack, 5 for war defense), then I don't see how 4stars are becoming irrelevant.
My luck with 5* pulls has been terrible and I don’t mean terrible like oh I got Capt Marvel and not Blade bad but like i save for a featured and pulled Groot, Falcon, and Red Cyclops Bad. I have 12 altogether with ZERO awakened 11 of which are still at r1. Look at it this way it will cost me 20k shards to make Falcon usable. It takes too long to accumulate shards, granted it has gotten better but the thought of having to do uncollected monthly EQs with only 4* having to fight a noded up maxed out Boss FIVE times is way too much to only get 3/4 of a crystal. Master Mode is perfect for my 5/50s but 1500 Shards is a joke
4* 5/50s do well as AW defenders.
Once you build your roster enough you get 5* shards from close to if not every 4* crystal you open, and there are players who can say the same for getting 6* shards for almost every time they open 5* crystals.
I don't agree with your suggestion about getting increased rewards for completing Act 5 with 4*s, and I explored 5.1-5.3 with only 4*s except for using a 3/45 unduped Dr. Voodoo on one path of 5.3.1. Attempting challenging content is the best way to improve your skills in this game, especially with weaker than recommended champions. Complete Act 4 and master level event quests with a combination of 3*s and 4*s, Act 5 with mostly 4*s, Road to the Labyrinth with the right 3/30 or 4/40 4*s, and so on and your skills will improve tremendously. Then when you get your first legit 5* and even more so your first legit awakened 5* you'll tear through all content except labyrinth of legends (unless you awaken a 5* Star Lord, Blade, or Stark-Enhanced Spider-Man).
Be patient with the grind and you'll get to where you want to be. And Falcon is underrated, his redwing ability disables Magik's limbo and other annoying abilities that come up frequently in AW.
We disagree, I feel Skill should be recognized and rewarded and i wouldnt stop with 4* I think using 3* to clear content specifically designed for 5* Champs should give great rewards too not the same stuff people playing on God Mode with the best and highest ranked champs get. Those rewards are fine and they shouldn’t be changed.
Let’s agree on things that will keep lower star champs relevant because right now 4* Champs will be irrelevant in about 18 months and 3* will be completely dead
I don’t know the answer to this question but how well would a 5/50 hold up on defense vs r2 6* especially when we are talking about Void, Morningstar, Gulk, Bishop, Sentinel.
The lack of gold may be the only thing saving 5/50s.
By December they may be all but done, in terms of competitive AW play. I thought they had at least 18 months but man this sucks
5/50 Voodoo, GP, Hulk, Rulk Magik, LC, NC, Angela, SL, Ronan(gem), SW, Wolvy, X23, Guillotine, Dorm, Thor, Iceman, Rogue, CB, SMSE, ULTRON AGAIN, and Loki
They are mostly r5 with a few being under but I have full intent to rank them unless 5* variants make them redundant as Angela, X23, and CB make little use of their signature aside from minor improvements (the same can be of a few others) or I’d say I get a better alternative to the niche im trying to fill as a 5* (Elektra over CB, or in NC’s case 5* unduped is better than 4* Duped as defender giving me best of both)
For many champs 5/50 as a niche ability or being god tier IS viable