So....you didn't get the Champ you wanted and that makes them all garbage?
agreed. I spent 30K shards on featured crystal on gambit as he was my favourite character in xmen and marvel. guess what? duped him 2/2 and totally stoked.
you can pass me your garbage lol.
not every character is everyones cup of tea. deal with it mate. or save up about 4 or 5 open at once to 'lessen' the disappointment.
im so waiting get my captain as well. have a 5* sci awakening ready
My last roll was Rhino. Not my first choice. Still a 5*.
While I don't agree completely with the original post, I think there is a sentiment here that is valid. There are arguably more low tier champs in the 5* crystal than not (and the next wave adds even more--Luke Cage, SG, and NFDD anyone?), and for players who have been loyal to the game since inception (or nearly), the prospect of "starting over" with a batch of 5* champs that are weaker than the old group isn't appealing. Time and resources "invested," and now OP feels like he is being asked to invest all over again, only this time in game assets that aren't as good. I don't mean to suggest that every 5* in the crystal is terrible--they aren't--and he misses the point on a couple of the champs he lists. But I do understand his frustration.
More to the point, I am sympathetic to the OP's other argument that it takes a decent amount of time to build shards for a 5* and there quite a few who have significantly diminished value unless you awaken them. With the addition of more champs to the crystal (all in all a good thing, in my opinion), the likelihood of duping a champ who needs duping (SIM or IM, for example) decreases. Anyone who has been sitting on a 5* SL unduped since the inception of 5*'s understands perfectly. Such a champ is "good" for arena points, but he doesn't make anyone's AW or AQ roster.
When the game team revisited Willpower, one of their arguments was the notion that you shouldn't dread opening a 4* crystal and getting a champ who wasn't really worthwhile (remember Ant-Man and BP in the old WP regime?). The same sentiment should exist for the 5* crystals we open today. In my opinion, the easiest way to remedy this is to make awakening the 5* champs a little easier, and not by dropping US$100-200 in the store for stones. Give us a way to earn 5* awakening points or shards or whatever you want to call them--not so quickly that it breaks the game, but gradually, like with other elite game items. Then I think the legitimate 5* issues OP notes are basically resolved.
I don't think the regular 5* crystal is as bad as it is being made out to be. Sure, some champs are just terribad. But there are reasons to have most of them.
Initial Heroes (October 2015):
CAPTAIN MARVEL: Once duped an upper tier attacker. LoL option, especially for Maestro.
RONAN: Kinda disappointing, but duped has a niche use for fighting highly buffed opponents.
CYCLOPS (NEW XAVIER SCHOOL): useful synergy and that's about it
STORM: Pretty solid when duped. 12.0 hit her kinda hard though, she was better before.
JUGGERNAUT: Great defender when duped.
MAGIK: Amazing for O or D when duped.
SPIDERMAN: Great defender when duped.
RHINO: Great defender when duped.
BLACK PANTHER: Very good attacker w/ deep wounds
WINTER SOLDIER: Very good attacker, good synergy w/ Cap2 and Wolverine also
IRON MAN: Decent for questing and top end autofighter
STARLORD: Best champ in the game when duped
Added August 2016
DRAX: Can clear LoL when duped. Upper tier attacker.
MAGNETO: useful for synergy and that's about it
IRON FIST: Meh post 12.0. Arena use only.
ANT-MAN: Useful synergy. Great duped defender.
HAWKEYE: Great attacker. Most underrated character in the game IMO
IRON PATRIOT: Okay for questing I guess. Good duped autofighter.
Added January 2017
SUPERIOR IRONMAN: Decent for questing and top end autofighter when duped.
COLOSSUS: Decent defender but not the best.
GUILLOTINE: Upper tier attacker, especially duped, plus niche usage against regen
YELLOWJACKET: Decent defender, useful synergy
MOONKNIGHT: Useful once a month
HULKBUSTER: An okay defender, but that's about it
Added May 2017
SPIDER-MAN (SYMBIOTE): above average attacker
VENOMPOOL: above average attacker
CYCLOPS (BLUE TEAM): Meh... synergy use though
GAMBIT: I don't like him, some do. Arena only for me.
MORDO: Top end defender, above average attacker, prestige machine
LOKI: Above average AW attacker (stealing local buffs is fun, especially with MD), prestige machine
CAPTAIN AMERICA: I haven't seen him yet but I think he'll be an upper tier attacker at r4
HULK: Upper tier attacker
BLACK PANTHER (CIVIL WAR): Upper tier defender
ELEKTRA: Upper tier attacker
ULTRON: Great for AQ, double immune and double regen
ROCKET RACCOON: I bet he is a LoL option at r4 duped. Anyone who has done LoL knows that crits are where most of your damage come from, and this guy is the crit master, plus the high base strength. As long as you can evade, he should be a top LoL option.
So, with more champs comes more chances for disappointment. But also more options to improve your situation. I don't think it is that bad. The next 2 months of adds to the crystal will add more meh champs than good champs, but then by the fall most of the champs getting added will be pretty darn good from that point moving forward.
While I don't agree completely with the original post, I think there is a sentiment here that is valid. There are arguably more low tier champs in the 5* crystal than not (and the next wave adds even more--Luke Cage, SG, and NFDD anyone?), and for players who have been loyal to the game since inception (or nearly), the prospect of "starting over" with a batch of 5* champs that are weaker than the old group isn't appealing. Time and resources "invested," and now OP feels like he is being asked to invest all over again, only this time in game assets that aren't as good. I don't mean to suggest that every 5* in the crystal is terrible--they aren't--and he misses the point on a couple of the champs he lists. But I do understand his frustration.
More to the point, I am sympathetic to the OP's other argument that it takes a decent amount of time to build shards for a 5* and there quite a few who have significantly diminished value unless you awaken them. With the addition of more champs to the crystal (all in all a good thing, in my opinion), the likelihood of duping a champ who needs duping (SIM or IM, for example) decreases. Anyone who has been sitting on a 5* SL unduped since the inception of 5*'s understands perfectly. Such a champ is "good" for arena points, but he doesn't make anyone's AW or AQ roster.
When the game team revisited Willpower, one of their arguments was the notion that you shouldn't dread opening a 4* crystal and getting a champ who wasn't really worthwhile (remember Ant-Man and BP in the old WP regime?). The same sentiment should exist for the 5* crystals we open today. In my opinion, the easiest way to remedy this is to make awakening the 5* champs a little easier, and not by dropping US$100-200 in the store for stones. Give us a way to earn 5* awakening points or shards or whatever you want to call them--not so quickly that it breaks the game, but gradually, like with other elite game items. Then I think the legitimate 5* issues OP notes are basically resolved.
Dr. Zola
It took a few pages but finally someone gets it.
We're investing literally 5 times the effort and time to get 5* champs as opposed to 4*, and there are only a handful of 5* champs that don't feel like a total "downgrade" to my 4* r5 roster. Yet the content on the way is going to require 5* champs at rank 4 to complete, and we're forced to do it with rubbish variations.
As a long time player, I remember going through extremely hard content (at the time) using champs like SW, block teams, willpower etc. We still had to spend units to complete most of it (along with 3000 units on masteries) but at least it was fair. Now the entire game is just a cash grab - almost every single aspect.
It took 2 and a half years to get where I am now in the game, is it going to take 10 years now to build a 5* roster equivalent to my 4* one? And how much money will be required along the way? Lol.
I got through map 5 all days only using my 5* IP. I only use my other 2 champs for mini or for Dom. I did map 6 with my IP and had the second most points on the team. Im used to his fighting style but I love fighting with him overall. I war with him also. Im not focused on trying to complete LOL because i don't have that much patience. It sucks that i pulled Rhino yesterday but hey, its time to grind for that next one. I play the game because I enjoy it 5* pulls dont make or break it for me.
Hi, I'm just another player who's sick of grinding and saving shards for months only to get a totally useless champ. I'm completely over spending my 10,000-15,000 crystal shards to end up with garbage like yesterday when I opened Gambit. Below I'm providing a list of 5* champs in the crystal that have literally NO USE in this game. They are basically a total waste of catalysts which would instead be better off spent on a different 4* in the same class.
Magneto
Colossus
Gambit
Regular captain America
Iron patriot
Hulkbuster
Red cyclops
Blue cyclops
Symboite spiderman
Rocket raccoon
Loki
Winter Soldier
That's 12 champions out of a possible 36. There are another 8 champs which are completely terrible unless duped:
Juggernaut
Storm
Venom pool
Iron man
Superior iron man
Ant man
Spider man
Star lord
So 20 out of 36 champions are a complete waste of space on my roster. Sadly I have a bunch of those listed and only 1 dupe after playing for 2 and a half years now.
Either drop 5* crystals from 10,000 shards to 5,000, or give us a damn chance at getting something worthwhile. After act 5 chapter 2, it's obvious chapter 3 will require a couple of 5* at rank 4 to get through. What hope do we have?
This game has sucked so bad over the last 12 months.
symbiote spidey and rocket are crit monsters. WS is pretty decent with the buff. Cyclops and mags are pretty good too. Gambit is ok but does good damage with prowess. Cap and venompools l2 both do decent bleed. The only champ I can agree has no use is colossus and iron man.
While I don't agree completely with the original post, I think there is a sentiment here that is valid. There are arguably more low tier champs in the 5* crystal than not (and the next wave adds even more--Luke Cage, SG, and NFDD anyone?), and for players who have been loyal to the game since inception (or nearly), the prospect of "starting over" with a batch of 5* champs that are weaker than the old group isn't appealing. Time and resources "invested," and now OP feels like he is being asked to invest all over again, only this time in game assets that aren't as good. I don't mean to suggest that every 5* in the crystal is terrible--they aren't--and he misses the point on a couple of the champs he lists. But I do understand his frustration.
More to the point, I am sympathetic to the OP's other argument that it takes a decent amount of time to build shards for a 5* and there quite a few who have significantly diminished value unless you awaken them. With the addition of more champs to the crystal (all in all a good thing, in my opinion), the likelihood of duping a champ who needs duping (SIM or IM, for example) decreases. Anyone who has been sitting on a 5* SL unduped since the inception of 5*'s understands perfectly. Such a champ is "good" for arena points, but he doesn't make anyone's AW or AQ roster.
When the game team revisited Willpower, one of their arguments was the notion that you shouldn't dread opening a 4* crystal and getting a champ who wasn't really worthwhile (remember Ant-Man and BP in the old WP regime?). The same sentiment should exist for the 5* crystals we open today. In my opinion, the easiest way to remedy this is to make awakening the 5* champs a little easier, and not by dropping US$100-200 in the store for stones. Give us a way to earn 5* awakening points or shards or whatever you want to call them--not so quickly that it breaks the game, but gradually, like with other elite game items. Then I think the legitimate 5* issues OP notes are basically resolved.
Dr. Zola
I think this misses a fundamental aspect of how this game works, and is always going to work. There will always be something that is very hard to acquire and rank up. There will always be something that is more powerful, but extremely costly to get. When people say this game is "moving to 5*" or "focused on 5*" it really isn't. It is the players, and specifically the very high tier players, that are focused on them. And there will always be high tier players pursuing the highest, most expensive champs and strong, expensive champs for them to pursue.
Suggestions revolving around making 5* champs essentially into the next 4* champs don't incorporate this basic rule. Over time the game will make 5* crystals easier to get, and 5* rank up resources more prevalent, but that will be a relatively slow process. If 5* champions ever reach the point where they become something that the players feel are not very difficult to acquire or not very difficult to dup and rank up, MCOC will just introduce 6* champs to fill that void.
It is hard to get 5* champs, and it is even harder to get the ones you specifically want, and very hard to rank them up. That has nothing to do with the specifics of 5* resources, but with the fact that this game is designed to always have such a pursuit goal. If people think they need 5* champs because they are better than 4* champs, accelerating the pace of making 5* champs more common won't solve that problem, it will simply accelerate the day when 6* champs make all your 5* champs obsolete.
Players always want faster progress, but the only people who will ever get it are the players in the middle of the pack in terms of progress or lower. Game developers tend to want to speed them up. But the players pursuing the highest goals and resources? They will always be given the hardest, most expensive, least efficient things to do to slow them down so they don't accelerate away from the pack. That is a fundamental axiom of MMO design. You cannot eliminate the grind at the top. The best you can do is mutate it into something else. Usually worse.
So....you didn't get the Champ you wanted and that makes them all garbage?
don't twist my words. There are legitimate concerns about what kabam is playing at here. I have a stacked roster of rank 5 4* champs, and the odds of getting a useful 4* are vastly greater than getting a useful 5*, even if you don't factor in the 8000 shard difference in price. With such a small pool of 5* champions in the regular crystal, why are the odds so bad?
My post is questioning why kabam has chosen the champs they have in the 5* crystal. They are inherently bad, is it because they want us to blow resources on them and spend units in quests because they're essentially useless?
You have a less than 50% chance of getting a 5* that you can use in AQ, AW or quests. There's something wrong.
8000 shards more, seems like a lot. It isnt. Here's why.
How many 3* dupes does it take to create a 4*?
37. Technically it's 36.something, but obviously you can't get 36.something heroes.
You get 55 shards per dupe.
For duping a 4* you get 275. 5*55=275. 2000*5=2000.
The ratio is the exact same.
The difference is we all think 4*s are harder to dupe than 3*s, and hello? That's the way it should be.
But that's also not taking in to account just how many 5* shards are out there. We get 2500 a month literally just for logging in.
Yes, you get less 5*s than 4*s. They're end game. I'm getting really tired of seeing these threads popping up. Especially from someone who's played since the beginning.
Comments
My last roll was Rhino. Not my first choice. Still a 5*.
Nice avatar bronzefall
More to the point, I am sympathetic to the OP's other argument that it takes a decent amount of time to build shards for a 5* and there quite a few who have significantly diminished value unless you awaken them. With the addition of more champs to the crystal (all in all a good thing, in my opinion), the likelihood of duping a champ who needs duping (SIM or IM, for example) decreases. Anyone who has been sitting on a 5* SL unduped since the inception of 5*'s understands perfectly. Such a champ is "good" for arena points, but he doesn't make anyone's AW or AQ roster.
When the game team revisited Willpower, one of their arguments was the notion that you shouldn't dread opening a 4* crystal and getting a champ who wasn't really worthwhile (remember Ant-Man and BP in the old WP regime?). The same sentiment should exist for the 5* crystals we open today. In my opinion, the easiest way to remedy this is to make awakening the 5* champs a little easier, and not by dropping US$100-200 in the store for stones. Give us a way to earn 5* awakening points or shards or whatever you want to call them--not so quickly that it breaks the game, but gradually, like with other elite game items. Then I think the legitimate 5* issues OP notes are basically resolved.
Dr. Zola
Initial Heroes (October 2015):
CAPTAIN MARVEL: Once duped an upper tier attacker. LoL option, especially for Maestro.
RONAN: Kinda disappointing, but duped has a niche use for fighting highly buffed opponents.
CYCLOPS (NEW XAVIER SCHOOL): useful synergy and that's about it
STORM: Pretty solid when duped. 12.0 hit her kinda hard though, she was better before.
JUGGERNAUT: Great defender when duped.
MAGIK: Amazing for O or D when duped.
SPIDERMAN: Great defender when duped.
RHINO: Great defender when duped.
BLACK PANTHER: Very good attacker w/ deep wounds
WINTER SOLDIER: Very good attacker, good synergy w/ Cap2 and Wolverine also
IRON MAN: Decent for questing and top end autofighter
STARLORD: Best champ in the game when duped
Added August 2016
DRAX: Can clear LoL when duped. Upper tier attacker.
MAGNETO: useful for synergy and that's about it
IRON FIST: Meh post 12.0. Arena use only.
ANT-MAN: Useful synergy. Great duped defender.
HAWKEYE: Great attacker. Most underrated character in the game IMO
IRON PATRIOT: Okay for questing I guess. Good duped autofighter.
Added January 2017
SUPERIOR IRONMAN: Decent for questing and top end autofighter when duped.
COLOSSUS: Decent defender but not the best.
GUILLOTINE: Upper tier attacker, especially duped, plus niche usage against regen
YELLOWJACKET: Decent defender, useful synergy
MOONKNIGHT: Useful once a month
HULKBUSTER: An okay defender, but that's about it
Added May 2017
SPIDER-MAN (SYMBIOTE): above average attacker
VENOMPOOL: above average attacker
CYCLOPS (BLUE TEAM): Meh... synergy use though
GAMBIT: I don't like him, some do. Arena only for me.
MORDO: Top end defender, above average attacker, prestige machine
LOKI: Above average AW attacker (stealing local buffs is fun, especially with MD), prestige machine
CAPTAIN AMERICA: I haven't seen him yet but I think he'll be an upper tier attacker at r4
HULK: Upper tier attacker
BLACK PANTHER (CIVIL WAR): Upper tier defender
ELEKTRA: Upper tier attacker
ULTRON: Great for AQ, double immune and double regen
ROCKET RACCOON: I bet he is a LoL option at r4 duped. Anyone who has done LoL knows that crits are where most of your damage come from, and this guy is the crit master, plus the high base strength. As long as you can evade, he should be a top LoL option.
So, with more champs comes more chances for disappointment. But also more options to improve your situation. I don't think it is that bad. The next 2 months of adds to the crystal will add more meh champs than good champs, but then by the fall most of the champs getting added will be pretty darn good from that point moving forward.
Just leave it then. Stop crying on the forum saying Symbiote Spiderman is a bad champ, because he's not.
It took a few pages but finally someone gets it.
We're investing literally 5 times the effort and time to get 5* champs as opposed to 4*, and there are only a handful of 5* champs that don't feel like a total "downgrade" to my 4* r5 roster. Yet the content on the way is going to require 5* champs at rank 4 to complete, and we're forced to do it with rubbish variations.
As a long time player, I remember going through extremely hard content (at the time) using champs like SW, block teams, willpower etc. We still had to spend units to complete most of it (along with 3000 units on masteries) but at least it was fair. Now the entire game is just a cash grab - almost every single aspect.
It took 2 and a half years to get where I am now in the game, is it going to take 10 years now to build a 5* roster equivalent to my 4* one? And how much money will be required along the way? Lol.
symbiote spidey and rocket are crit monsters. WS is pretty decent with the buff. Cyclops and mags are pretty good too. Gambit is ok but does good damage with prowess. Cap and venompools l2 both do decent bleed. The only champ I can agree has no use is colossus and iron man.
I think this misses a fundamental aspect of how this game works, and is always going to work. There will always be something that is very hard to acquire and rank up. There will always be something that is more powerful, but extremely costly to get. When people say this game is "moving to 5*" or "focused on 5*" it really isn't. It is the players, and specifically the very high tier players, that are focused on them. And there will always be high tier players pursuing the highest, most expensive champs and strong, expensive champs for them to pursue.
Suggestions revolving around making 5* champs essentially into the next 4* champs don't incorporate this basic rule. Over time the game will make 5* crystals easier to get, and 5* rank up resources more prevalent, but that will be a relatively slow process. If 5* champions ever reach the point where they become something that the players feel are not very difficult to acquire or not very difficult to dup and rank up, MCOC will just introduce 6* champs to fill that void.
It is hard to get 5* champs, and it is even harder to get the ones you specifically want, and very hard to rank them up. That has nothing to do with the specifics of 5* resources, but with the fact that this game is designed to always have such a pursuit goal. If people think they need 5* champs because they are better than 4* champs, accelerating the pace of making 5* champs more common won't solve that problem, it will simply accelerate the day when 6* champs make all your 5* champs obsolete.
Players always want faster progress, but the only people who will ever get it are the players in the middle of the pack in terms of progress or lower. Game developers tend to want to speed them up. But the players pursuing the highest goals and resources? They will always be given the hardest, most expensive, least efficient things to do to slow them down so they don't accelerate away from the pack. That is a fundamental axiom of MMO design. You cannot eliminate the grind at the top. The best you can do is mutate it into something else. Usually worse.
8000 shards more, seems like a lot. It isnt. Here's why.
How many 3* dupes does it take to create a 4*?
37. Technically it's 36.something, but obviously you can't get 36.something heroes.
You get 55 shards per dupe.
For duping a 4* you get 275. 5*55=275. 2000*5=2000.
The ratio is the exact same.
The difference is we all think 4*s are harder to dupe than 3*s, and hello? That's the way it should be.
But that's also not taking in to account just how many 5* shards are out there. We get 2500 a month literally just for logging in.
Yes, you get less 5*s than 4*s. They're end game. I'm getting really tired of seeing these threads popping up. Especially from someone who's played since the beginning.