Analysis of AW Season 1: Tier vs Bracket

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  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
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  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    @GroundedWisdom is there any more evodence that i could supply to you????
    You are more than welcome to join either one of my allies and experience it for yourself if you wish...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    Dude....lol. I didn't say I don't believe you. I just said that wasn't my experience.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited April 2018
    I am just ensuring i have provided the evidence to show how this is working.
    I do remember over a year ago in an old ally we could not climb past tier 10... as we were a 3 mil ally cus once we got there the weakest opposition we had was 6mil and we were to disorganised to handle it.
    Now it is not the case and before it made More sense.
    You push amd eventually hit a ceiling based on strength.
    Now you are in a bubble floating up and down with similar ailles....
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    It's possible there are a number of other factors at play as well. Number of BGs, time Matchmaking, Allies looking at the same time, adjustments they made during the Season, etc. Pretty much every Ally was going all-out and Matching at the same times.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited April 2018
    This happens everytime....
    Too much to be coincidence....
    I have searched bot my allies at exactly the same time every time we have had same war rating....
    There are time when we wer both only +-10 from each other.... looking at the same time and matchmakinntoo half an hour...
    We were never matched...
    We both only ever do 3 bg wars...

    @GroundedWisdom matchmaking is not the same as it used to be....
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    I haven't seen that consistently myself.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    I have evodence from the last 20 matches that show
    1gt = 3mil. Lowest matchup was 1.8 amd highest was 3.5z
    Tcr = 8.5 lowest was 6 (amd that is when we were 7mil) highest was our last one at 11mil....
    Both are within what a 35% tolerance....
    a 3mil in tier 10 will never fight an 8mil in tier 10 until they fix matchmaking

    Can kabam please comment on this @Kabam Miike
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    I'm not entirely sure it shouldn't be somewhat of a factor regardless, aside from the fact that we don't know if anything changed 100%. In my opinion, a 3 Mil shouldn't go up against a 10 Mil. There has to be some kind of buffer. Otherwise you have Allies completely overpowered pecking off lower ones. There's skill, and then there's a trap. Which is why War Rating comes into play. If the War Rating was off as well, that would be concerning
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    I'm not entirely sure it shouldn't be somewhat of a factor regardless, aside from the fact that we don't know if anything changed 100%. In my opinion, a 3 Mil shouldn't go up against a 10 Mil. There has to be some kind of buffer. Otherwise you have Allies completely overpowered pecking off lower ones. There's skill, and then there's a trap. Which is why War Rating comes into play. If the War Rating was off as well, that would be concerning

    @GroundedWisdom whilst i get your point... war is a contest.... the strongest will rise the weakest will fall...
    if you include strength as is now you get weak and strong unfairly side by side or the wrong way around on ocaasions.

    By not including strength after a while 3 mil allies would not face 10mil allies often as 10 mil would generally sit around say tier 7 whilst 3 mil would generally sit around say tier 11.....
    Seems fair to me
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    Eventually, you will go up against Allies stronger than you, yes. That's all determined by your skill when War Rating is a factor. Which is why I said that I would be more concerned if it was a variant as well. It's not possible for the system to Match that way indefinitely because as your War Rating increases, you will eventually be Matched against higher Allies. I speculated that they both play a factor, but ultimately, War Rating is the deciding factor. Whether I am correct about that, is another question. What I'm saying is I agree with certain mechanisms protecting lower Allies from being pecked off. The strongest will rise only applies if there is a fair and reasonable progression to it. Otherwise it's just total randomness and brick walls.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited April 2018
    @GroundedWisdom you are not seeing things entirely right whilst you do make some valid points. You are missing key points.
    When an alliance is matched up against simarly strong allies it will get around 50/50 win loss ratio...
    This is happening in tier 10 to both my 3 mil ally and my 8mil ally. We are both fluctuating in the same tier since before season 1 started.
    We cannot climb. 1 step up, 1 step back.
    What is happening to us is also happening at higher tiers.
    Which is why you have alliances like this one sitting much higher with war rating.
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    There is no way they win if matched with the likes of yet they sit higher than
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  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Meanwhile we are 8mil in a bubble of other similar allies down at 1000 war rating.
    I am not trying to say we desrve to be top but war rating is not reflecting strength of alliance at all
    Alliances that perform averagely have become stagnated... stuck... frozen in same war rating they were at when kabam changed this.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    The Win/Loss is determined by how the War goes. If you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. The only thing determining that is performance and metrics.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited April 2018
    The Win/Loss is determined by how the War goes. If you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. The only thing determining that is performance and metrics.

    Yeah.... well der.... thats obvious.....

    My point is a 3mil ally has a better chamce against a 3 mil ally then they do against an 8mil ally....

    As i have said before.
    I have a 3 mil that would not be able beat an ally that is 5mil.
    I have an 8mil ally that has beaten 9mil allies.

    Due to matchmaking however the 3 mil ally has never been matched with an ally above 4.5 mil
    Our 8 mil ally is currenty tier 12 whilst the 3 mil is tier 10.
    We consistently have our 3 mil ally higher than us and we are lower than it.
    It makes no sense at all for it to be able to get same rewards as my 8mil ally. The 3 mil ally would not beat a single one of the opponents that my 8mil has faced.
    The 3 mil is winning wars where the enemy is not taking down a boss cus they are not strong enough.
    Yet they sit higher than my 8mil
    My 8 mil is getting 3bgs cleared and 90%+ exploration and losing.

    In a fair system we would both be facing allies around our war ratings. We would both be facing allies between 500k and 15mil+ Whatever suits the war rating. And if this was the case my 8 mil would have more wins than my 3mil.
    Our aar ratings would then actually reflect our strength.
    My 8 mil might climb to maybe 1300
    While the 3 mil falls to maybe 900
    Then we would fighting mostly oppoennts similar strength as alliances would be sitting based on strength. And other alliances similar would also fall into place.... then war rating will begin to reflect skill and strength in wars
    And we we will get the appropriate rewards that mach our skill and strength level

    You keep saying as you climb you will face stronger opponents. Climbing is not happening. Thats wat in saying. There is stagnation caused atm.

    There is the same thing going on in higer tiers than me also

    You have alliances like this 3.6 sitting comfortably in tier 9 and would be fightin other allies similar whilst my 8 mil is stuck in tier 11 atm fighting other similar allies...
    Doesnt seem right to me
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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    Your statement was that you have a 50/50 Win Ratio for Allies with equal Rating. That's not the case for us. I call that easy kills. Lol. The challenging Matches are the ones two and three times our Rating, which are still doable. Not 100% of the time, obviously. We can do it if our skill and organization are on point.
    If you're arguing that your 8 Mil shouldn't be in the same Tier as your 3 Mil, that's not correct. It's based on the Ally's cumulative success.
    Your War Rating DOES reflect your success. You can maintain War Rating if you choose not to run Wars for a time, but you will be Matched within the same range when you do. It sounds like what you're experiencing is the result of 50/50 progress, and not necessarily a problem with the system.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited April 2018
    Your statement was that you have a 50/50 Win Ratio for Allies with equal Rating. That's not the case for us. I call that easy kills. Lol. The challenging Matches are the ones two and three times our Rating, which are still doable. Not 100% of the time, obviously. We can do it if our skill and organization are on point.
    If you're arguing that your 8 Mil shouldn't be in the same Tier as your 3 Mil, that's not correct. It's based on the Ally's cumulative success.
    Your War Rating DOES reflect your success. You can maintain War Rating if you choose not to run Wars for a time, but you will be Matched within the same range when you do. It sounds like what you're experiencing is the result of 50/50 progress, and not necessarily a problem with the system.

    It maybe combination of both....
    War rating reflects success but not strength...
    It is skewed by bad matchmaking system....

    Wars are different in top tier as to in low tier

    For one nodes in low tier are easy.... much easier below tier 9.... there is no challenge in the nodes....
    Also i dont pretend to
    Know what strength you are but....
    An alliance at 10mil and at 15 mil may very well have the same top champs.
    15 and 20mil Would not be much different in top champs.

    War rating is supposed to reflect strength.
    It cannot do that of 3 mils fight other 3 mils whilst 8 mils fight other 8mils.

    There is not a whole lot more we can do. Yes we can improve. Certainly.
    But our 8 mil ally loses when we explore 95% and get 3 boss kills.
    Where as our 3 mil ally sits higher but rarely gets 3 boss kills.

    If matchmaking was done on war performance only then my 3 mil ally Would occasionally face 10 mil allies and lose.
    My 8mil would occasionally face 3mil amd win
    But we do not have these kind of matchups.
    If tcr fought 1gt or any of the matchups it has had we would win them all....
    If 1gt fought any of the matchups tcr has had it would lose them all.....
    How do we deserve to be at the same rating and ranking????

    And are you claiming you can beat every single alliance of same rating as you??? As you claimed you see them as easy wins....

    As i said war is a differnt story in lower tiers....
    Nodes are weak.... very weak.... so when both attackers have it easy it comes very close to who gets the win. And it is not so kuch wat we do but just hoping they die a little more or explore a little less
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    War Rating directly reflects strength when it's based on Wins and Losses. There's no way it wouldn't. Unless you account for Piloting and other shady practises, but that's a different topic. For that matter, if you have people with the skill of an 8 Mil also playing in that 3 Mil, it's not outside the realm of possibility for them to succeed equally as well.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited April 2018
    War Rating directly reflects strength when it's based on Wins and Losses. There's no way it wouldn't. Unless you account for Piloting and other shady practises, but that's a different topic. For that matter, if you have people with the skill of an 8 Mil also playing in that 3 Mil, it's not outside the realm of possibility for them to succeed equally as well.


    It does not directly reflect strength. It says that a 3 mil ally is xxxx amount strong when compared to allie 2-5 mil in rating
    And it says a 8mil ally is xxxx amount strong when compared to allies 6-11 mil in rating....

    It could only directly reflect strength if all allies faced a variety of matchups and rating was not a factor

    I am in both allies i know both allies....
    I know what both are capable of....
    The 3 mil is capable if far less then the 8mil but is allowed to sit higher ranking cus it get lower matchups then the 8 mil.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    If everyone in my 8mil ally sold all of our 2 and 3* amd bad 4* we could halve our rating
    We would now face weaker allies....
    We would be able to get more wins....
    We would climb to a higher tier....
    We would get better rewards....

    It is true....
    And it is disgusting that it could be done....
    Sell your champs... amd get benifited... terrible
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    It is based on performance. If the 3 Mil wasn't gaining Wins, it wouldn't sit higher. Regardless of what you are Matched against, it all boils down to how you perform in the War, including the metrics for Diversity, etc. I don't agree that the system is particularly damning. You get Matched and you play. If you gain more Points, you win. The Tiers aren't aligned with the Rating of the Ally. They're Rewards based on performance. It's perfectly acceptable for an Ally to have a varying Rating and be in the same Tier. If they're fighting fairly and winning, they earn it.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Yes it is based on performance.
    Wins = more points.....

    But a weak ally only beating weak allies does not deserve the same rewards as a strong ally

    Where is the benifit to growing your account and you ally????
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Yes it is based on performance.
    Wins = more points.....

    But a weak ally only beating weak allies does not deserve the same rewards as a strong ally

    Where is the benifit to growing your account and you ally????

    They do if they put the work in and earn them.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    if everyone in my ally sold almost all our champs we would get more wins......
    I have provided enough evidence to show that...

    That is just stupid....
    We grow and we face harder competition.....
    We were a 5 mil ally in tier 5 before....
    We culled and recruited.... grew to 8mil tontry and step up a level...
    And now we suffer more
    As a 5 mil ally we glclimed to tier 5 only clearing 2 bgs and getting 70% exploration....
    As soon as we grew to 8mil our performences grew... we now get 90%+ exploration and 3 bg clears.....
    But we get many less wins and have just fallen backward....

    We grew stronger
    We now perform better
    But before we got more wins and more rewards

    All due to matchmaking....
    when we were 5 mil each bg had 6 really strong acounts and 4 weaker accounts. So our strong guys could clear the minis and the bosses and our weaker guys died after a foght or two... lol.....
    We won cus we were fighting other 5mil allies and similar all the time... difference is they were more balanced... so they got good exploration on us cus they smashe our weak plyers defenders.... but could very rarely manage 3 boss kilss.... so we won most wars....

    As soon as we thought lets step it up... we grew and got better but now we have matchups agaisnst stronger allies we have fallen....
    I say i should go back to exploiting the system
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    You can sell your Champs if you want, but it's the same Players with the same skill using them. Matches aren't homogenously-equal in terms of Rating. You may have a string that are, but the system is not exclusively Matching like that. Eventually you'll be Matched against an Ally higher up. Accumulate enough Wins, and it's almost a certainty.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Eventually maybe but i have seen this going on for along time. All through season1
    So we may climb to tier 4 before we get a hard matchup....
    Then mybe we get 2 or 3 but after we drop a little the wins will start coming again.....

    Meanwhile we have collected many more rewards from higer tier wars....
    And during season a huge amount of extra points.....
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    If we sit here in tier 10 and win 1 lose one during the season 12 and 12 we will get a small amount of points....

    If we win 12 straight and climb up .... and then even if we lost 12 straight we would accumulate alot more points due to higher multilplier....

    Alliance rating being included is very unfair and easy to manipulate......
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    The more you describe, the more I wonder if you're looking for ways to manipulate it. Lol.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,722 ★★★★★
    Whether you win one, lose one is up to how you perform.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    The more you describe, the more I wonder if you're looking for ways to manipulate it. Lol.

    Not looking for ways.... just stating how easily it could be done.... which clearly indicates a big problem....
    If i wanted to manipulate it i could.... it would be easier than complaining about it here and asking kabam to do something about it....
    Win one or lose one is up to how you perform.....
    But we get ranked against each other whilst we are not even playing on the same field....
    Essentially atleast the low tier wars are broken into different divisions based on rating.
    3mil will never meet 10mil
    Amd so on.
    However the rewards are not issued as such.
    If they wanna use alliance rating and effectively create divisional matchups
    The rewards need to relfect this. There needs to scaled rewards and different leaderboards....
    You cant say the winner of division F is as good as the middle of division C. If team F played in division C it would most likely place last.
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