Sure. If we're playing the system fairly and winning or losing on our own merit, that's War. If we're taking advantage of the system itself just to peck off lower Allies for Points, that's anything but War. That's greed and disregard. I have other words, but I also have etiquette.
In any case, I made this Thread to talk about suggestions on how to solve the problems. I think you've already stated where you stand, so thanks for commenting.
TL:DR - Take advantage of or be taken advantage of.
Great motto for fair play. Lol.
What you call “take advantage or be taken advantage” I call “eat or be eaten”. It is a war after all
This thread is getting too many comments. It's about time the Kabam clean-up patrol comes along and deletes it like the other 3 threads on the topic. Without offering their opinion, of course.
id like to see them freeze rating in the offseason, would solve a lot, and its a super simple solution. For penalties, season points should be taken only, not rating points.
War ratings are dynamic. You can claw your way up with a hard earned win streak, and you know once you hit a certain level you're going to encounter a losing streak and drop again. Then you build back up. That's why rating should not be frozen. No matter what, people will end up where they would normally be anyway.
id like to see them freeze rating in the offseason, would solve a lot, and its a super simple solution. For penalties, season points should be taken only, not rating points.
At the very least keep separate Ratings. I would have no issue with that penalty. Just not sure if it would be enough to dissuade cheating.
War ratings are dynamic. You can claw your way up with a hard earned win streak, and you know once you hit a certain level you're going to encounter a losing streak and drop again. Then you build back up. That's why rating should not be frozen. No matter what, people will end up where they would normally be anyway.
yes and no, outside influences (like tanking and swapping) introduce error into a relatively clean mathematical system. At high tiers the +/- bonus is altered as well. We aren't really dealing with a "clean" system anyways.
War ratings are dynamic. You can claw your way up with a hard earned win streak, and you know once you hit a certain level you're going to encounter a losing streak and drop again. Then you build back up. That's why rating should not be frozen. No matter what, people will end up where they would normally be anyway.
No. Not when there is a limited time to Seaosns. Allies are using that as a boost, but the ones who are facing them are missing out on potential Points. Plus it shifts the whole system.
If rating is meant to be a true measure of strength, then penalties should not affect it. Preseason/offseason matches shouldn’t either. Bottom line is, we shouldn’t really be lumping together, season stats and preseason stats, no competitive league in the world does that.
Penalties should Only impact scoring, and should not affect any matching parameters.
id like to see them freeze rating in the offseason, would solve a lot, and its a super simple solution. For penalties, season points should be taken only, not rating points.
You don’t think that alliances will just build shells and migrate to manipulate war rating that way instead of tanking? I think the real problem that is driving this behaviour is actually the way they allocated the resources. People will do anything within the rules to win as long as the season rewards are head and shoulders above everything else.
I agree that the top tier rewards should be more level than what they are. That is certainly a motivation for the behavior you’re seeing.
I think many alliances are less inclined to swap, than they are to tank. Looking at the top 100, 16 of them are not representative of their current war rating, meaning they are a shell, either recent or from a few seasons back.
An interesting solution, Likely very difficult to implement, would be to have your war rating be a cumulative rating from every member’s performance in war over time. In reality this game does not need another hidden metric that is used as a recruiting tool.
There is one aspect that’s been massively overlooked ( I think )
Tanking / sandbagging is befitting the alliance dropping down and mismatching the alliances they draw ( we’ve all got that bit ) but it’s a season SO the lesser alliance still has to at least clear 100% to keep there season on some sort of track and being a mismatch are likely to be facing a much higher rated defence, meaning on based on average wars this would cost them a hell of a lot more and WHO befefits from that? .......... so is this an overlooked issue as it is benefiting revenue?
At the end of season 1 I surgested to my alliance to run “no item wars” to build up loyalty for boosts etc as we were all empty, we were floating between tier 2/3 so I said we needed to stay in tier 3, tanking wasn’t an issue as the multipliers didn’t allow it ( at that time) it was purely to replenish, I think we will all agree that’s an honest and allowable action but after the multipliers changed it became all about tanking.
So a quick and easy solution.
Aw series stays the same.
Off season a flat rate win/ lose rating is introduced +10 for a win -10 for a loss
That would make it with two weeks down time a total of -60 which is about 1 loss in the season.
That killls tanking allows alliances to replenish ( obviously not going to please kabam)
As the meerkats say “ simples”
A good point was brought up. If everyone can do it it's fair. If you choose not to tank that's your choice. Just like if you choose not to farm gold in arena, you don't get to complain about gold shortage. Is it fair that people who have no time to do arena don't get gold from it? Are they being taken advantage of because they choose not to do arena? I can't grind for a basic or featured champ, can we change the arena system since I'm not able to win champs? You choose to play the way you play. Don't limit my way.
I like the idea of reduced ratings during off season, maybe more like 20 for win/ 10 for loss. That would allow a little more movement up if anyone is going that route, and a little less going down.
There is also downside to freezing war rating. A team can tank last few wars in a season (if they are safe in their target tier) so that they have favorable matchups in off-season and get 6 easy wins against weaker alliances. Complaining about the current state and sticking with the "honorable" way is just prideful, war is a money grab alliances are doing what they can to reduce the pressure doing the season.
I don't understand why people make such a big deal about war anyways, I have played in plat2 and plat3. When you breakdown the rewards by a per war basis, the difference between rewards from one tier to the next aren't that appealing. I didn't like the culture of alliances pushing in war for such nominal rewards and went to a laid-back plat3 Ally. No death counts, no forced boosting and healing, no tracking defenders, only requirement is bosskill. I have enjoyed season much more doing so.
The reason why these posts keep getting deleted is unfortunately the mod’s reading this are dyslexic and think we’re all a bunch of “ tankers” talking about “ tanking”
Oh dear here comes my jail time
The reason why these posts keep getting deleted is unfortunately the mod’s reading this are dyslexic and think we’re all a bunch of “ tankers” talking about “ tanking”
Oh dear here comes my jail time
I don't think they're partial to that. There's just been a number of Threads on the same subject. Plus, one was becoming borderline personal, so that may have played a factor. I opened this one to offer suggestions on solutions.
There is also downside to freezing war rating. A team can tank last few wars in a season (if they are safe in their target tier) so that they have favorable matchups in off-season and get 6 easy wins against weaker alliances. Complaining about the current state and sticking with the "honorable" way is just prideful, war is a money grab alliances are doing what they can to reduce the pressure doing the season.
See, I think the problem lies in having them interconnected. Whenever one is able to influence another, people will inevitably try to find a way to manipulate the other. I think separating the two would be best. Ideally, I would like to see a separate War Rating for both. However, the main thing I think is best is that Season progress is separate and isolated to Seasons. Then there's the issue of punishment. Which I'm all for. You do the crime, you do the time. However, the current method is contributing to off-balance Matches. The reality is that the entire Matchmaking system is all over the place because of shifting Ratings.
Comments
Great motto for fair play. Lol.
In any case, I made this Thread to talk about suggestions on how to solve the problems. I think you've already stated where you stand, so thanks for commenting.
This thread is getting too many comments. It's about time the Kabam clean-up patrol comes along and deletes it like the other 3 threads on the topic. Without offering their opinion, of course.
At the very least keep separate Ratings. I would have no issue with that penalty. Just not sure if it would be enough to dissuade cheating.
yes and no, outside influences (like tanking and swapping) introduce error into a relatively clean mathematical system. At high tiers the +/- bonus is altered as well. We aren't really dealing with a "clean" system anyways.
No. Not when there is a limited time to Seaosns. Allies are using that as a boost, but the ones who are facing them are missing out on potential Points. Plus it shifts the whole system.
Penalties should Only impact scoring, and should not affect any matching parameters.
I agree that the top tier rewards should be more level than what they are. That is certainly a motivation for the behavior you’re seeing.
I think many alliances are less inclined to swap, than they are to tank. Looking at the top 100, 16 of them are not representative of their current war rating, meaning they are a shell, either recent or from a few seasons back.
An interesting solution, Likely very difficult to implement, would be to have your war rating be a cumulative rating from every member’s performance in war over time. In reality this game does not need another hidden metric that is used as a recruiting tool.
Tanking / sandbagging is befitting the alliance dropping down and mismatching the alliances they draw ( we’ve all got that bit ) but it’s a season SO the lesser alliance still has to at least clear 100% to keep there season on some sort of track and being a mismatch are likely to be facing a much higher rated defence, meaning on based on average wars this would cost them a hell of a lot more and WHO befefits from that? .......... so is this an overlooked issue as it is benefiting revenue?
So a quick and easy solution.
Aw series stays the same.
Off season a flat rate win/ lose rating is introduced +10 for a win -10 for a loss
That would make it with two weeks down time a total of -60 which is about 1 loss in the season.
That killls tanking allows alliances to replenish ( obviously not going to please kabam)
As the meerkats say “ simples”
If someone takes a dive, that's not a Win. You might get Shards, but it costs you the Points towards Seasons, and that's not a fair solution.
Oh dear here comes my jail time
I don't think they're partial to that. There's just been a number of Threads on the same subject. Plus, one was becoming borderline personal, so that may have played a factor. I opened this one to offer suggestions on solutions.
See, I think the problem lies in having them interconnected. Whenever one is able to influence another, people will inevitably try to find a way to manipulate the other. I think separating the two would be best. Ideally, I would like to see a separate War Rating for both. However, the main thing I think is best is that Season progress is separate and isolated to Seasons. Then there's the issue of punishment. Which I'm all for. You do the crime, you do the time. However, the current method is contributing to off-balance Matches. The reality is that the entire Matchmaking system is all over the place because of shifting Ratings.
Do a peak rewards for alliances and be a bit more generous with what it doles out so people with like, say 6 star champs can grow.
On a side note, I do find it weird there is no announcement for alliance wars season 4 yet.