Elsa applying degen when under suicides

Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★
edited October 2019 in Bugs and Known Issues
As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.
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Comments

  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★
    edited October 2019
    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,007 ★★★★
    edited October 2019
    Covered in her spotlight and an entire class is immune to it, mutants.

    Is Elsa meant to apply the degen damage under suicides?

    She will apply her Degeneration Passive any time she's affected by a Bleed Debuff, including the one from Double-Edge.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★

    Covered in her spotlight and an entire class is immune to it, mutants.

    Is Elsa meant to apply the degen damage under suicides?

    She will apply her Degeneration Passive any time she's affected by a Bleed Debuff, including the one from Double-Edge.
    Cheers, I asked that question before. Missed the mutant immunity part though.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,007 ★★★★
    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 2,519 ★★★★

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
    All they had to do was bring a class advantage and no issue.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★
    edited October 2019
    So it does scale? Know it all above me must have missed that bit, was that 20 seconds?
  • J0NisCOOLJ0NisCOOL Posts: 115

    Lormif said:

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
    All they had to do was bring a class advantage and no issue.
    You think when they designed her this was the desired outcome? This is a bug’s and issues thread so after some inside knowledge rather then someone who’s pretending to know everything about everything
    Well put, they have had issues like this in the past and while people keep saying this is intended it is clearly not. Kabam Zibiit has also made claims before that he had to go back on due to incorrect interpretations of abilities. Even if this is what they intended and for that ability to act this way, it will be fixed (not nerfed).

    To anyone who has played this game for a while it is clear that this is a bug and will most likely be resolved in the near future.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 2,519 ★★★★
    edited October 2019
    I wouldn't call this a bug at all, rather they underestimated the potency of the degen damage.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
    All they had to do was bring a class advantage and no issue.
    You think when they designed her this was the desired outcome? This is a bug’s and issues thread so after some inside knowledge rather then someone who’s pretending to know everything about everything
    Which part? Do I think decided for the degen to stay? yes, absolutely, it is how that works.
    AS LONG AS SHE IS BLEEDING THE DEGEN IS THERE. If you remove it, it comes back.


    Do I think they intended for fury to not regen to full? No, because that is not how it has worked previously.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
    All they had to do was bring a class advantage and no issue.
    You think when they designed her this was the desired outcome? This is a bug’s and issues thread so after some inside knowledge rather then someone who’s pretending to know everything about everything
    Which part? Do I think decided for the degen to stay? yes, absolutely, it is how that works.
    AS LONG AS SHE IS BLEEDING THE DEGEN IS THERE. If you remove it, it comes back.


    Do I think they intended for fury to not regen to full? No, because that is not how it has worked previously.
    You think when they designed her they were aware of the interaction this mechanic would have with suicides and that it would make it impossible to beat her in AW unless you used a mutant?
    I’m not sure I understand the fury part or what it has to do with this thread.
    She died in 20 seconds yeah? 👍😂
  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 806 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
    All they had to do was bring a class advantage and no issue.
    yeah just put her on a hidden node and then bam not so easy to prepare for that isn't it?
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    @Rougeknight87 thought you might be interested on what she looks like on D.

    It was definitely intended to be an annoying part of her kit, BUT looking at the video you sent i think they should tweak the degen damage a little.
    All they had to do was bring a class advantage and no issue.
    You think when they designed her this was the desired outcome? This is a bug’s and issues thread so after some inside knowledge rather then someone who’s pretending to know everything about everything
    Which part? Do I think decided for the degen to stay? yes, absolutely, it is how that works.
    AS LONG AS SHE IS BLEEDING THE DEGEN IS THERE. If you remove it, it comes back.


    Do I think they intended for fury to not regen to full? No, because that is not how it has worked previously.
    You think when they designed her they were aware of the interaction this mechanic would have with suicides and that it would make it impossible to beat her in AW unless you used a mutant?
    I’m not sure I understand the fury part or what it has to do with this thread.
    She died in 20 seconds yeah? 👍😂
    She is currently preventing fury from healing after loosing his decoy.

    And yes I think they were aware of the interaction with this mechanic with suicides. There is no good way to assume they ignored that. The only issue in this is that I believe it is supposed to be a set value, not scaling with attack or anything.
  • J0NisCOOLJ0NisCOOL Posts: 115

    I wouldn't call this a bug at all, rather they underestimated the potency of the degen damage.

    I’m not calling the interaction with suicides itself the bug as it may be working as intended, however, the damage scaling and the interactions that are also going on with fury and others is the bug. If you don’t see that I don’t know what game you’re playing.
  • J0NisCOOLJ0NisCOOL Posts: 115
    Also, the highest base degen damage I could find for a 5/65 Elsa from a reliable source was from a video from otriux and she has 292.88 per ever 0.5 seconds without any masteries. Double edge lasting for 16 seconds at 3/3 would result roughly 9,358 total damage.

    The video we watched has the degen ticking for 1098 per 0.5 seconds resulting in 35,136 total damage.

    This doesn’t seem correct and math doesn’t lie.
  • MadcatMadcat Posts: 300 ★★
    Hulk Rag might have Face Me trigger so... Mutant plus HR as counters to instagibbing degen? Like I said before - Kabam has designed nearly every champion in the path 6+months to have a passive damage or non contact damage effect. Expect this trend to continue. Miike stated that the direction of the game design was needed specific counters for specific nodes or champions.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★
    J0NisCOOL said:

    Also, the highest base degen damage I could find for a 5/65 Elsa from a reliable source was from a video from otriux and she has 292.88 per ever 0.5 seconds without any masteries. Double edge lasting for 16 seconds at 3/3 would result roughly 9,358 total damage.

    The video we watched has the degen ticking for 1098 per 0.5 seconds resulting in 35,136 total damage.

    This doesn’t seem correct and math doesn’t lie.

    There is a difference between a node on defense with massive buffs and a

    That 292 for a 5* is 2x the base of 145.9, showing it scales with the buffs.
  • Sugoi_DubaiSugoi_Dubai Posts: 74
    The main problem is when she is placed on a hidden node in AW. You want be able to go through it no matter your skill if you didn't bring a mutant. Not a big fan of this.
  • 0din0din Posts: 144
    Plenty of such champs. Omega red sucks against robots. ghost and Corvus vs Maw is a death trap too
  • A l p h aA l p h a Posts: 408 ★★★
    edited October 2019


    0din said:

    Plenty of such champs. Omega red sucks against robots. ghost and Corvus vs Maw is a death trap too

    I have a r5 elsa bloodstone and yeah without a mutant, duped corvus or maybe gulk (who has a class disadvantage and won't outdamage the 3 mín timer on alot of nodes) even i admit its abit much... Its awesome for attack sure, but if you're caught against her without one of the Champs mentioned above... Its basically death, 292.88 per tick and as some mentioned above 9300 ish damage... Factor in 60% boost from suicides then 200% or more attack on war nodes and its basically unbeatable without them! I'm all for champs like maw and sinister countering a few champs... But being able to kill around 70% of all champs before they can barely do anything is abit much!

    That being said I do love using her for war attack! 😅
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    The main problem is when she is placed on a hidden node in AW. You want be able to go through it no matter your skill if you didn't bring a mutant. Not a big fan of this.

    Hidden nodes don’t have much of a bonus
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    The main problem is when she is placed on a hidden node in AW. You want be able to go through it no matter your skill if you didn't bring a mutant. Not a big fan of this.

    Hidden nodes don’t have much of a bonus
    Lol why even bother with that comment? What’s wrong with you bud. It’s a bugs and issues thread, this is a clear issue. All you’ve done is try to discredit it every comment. Why?
  • LormifLormif Posts: 4,975 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    The main problem is when she is placed on a hidden node in AW. You want be able to go through it no matter your skill if you didn't bring a mutant. Not a big fan of this.

    Hidden nodes don’t have much of a bonus
    Lol why even bother with that comment? What’s wrong with you bud. It’s a bugs and issues thread, this is a clear issue. All you’ve done is try to discredit it every comment. Why?
    What about it being a bugs and issue thread prevents people from discrediting it being a bug or an issue? What is wrong with you that you think you get the final say on what is a bug or issue?
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 537 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    The main problem is when she is placed on a hidden node in AW. You want be able to go through it no matter your skill if you didn't bring a mutant. Not a big fan of this.

    Hidden nodes don’t have much of a bonus
    Lol why even bother with that comment? What’s wrong with you bud. It’s a bugs and issues thread, this is a clear issue. All you’ve done is try to discredit it every comment. Why?
    What about it being a bugs and issue thread prevents people from discrediting it being a bug or an issue? What is wrong with you that you think you get the final say on what is a bug or issue?</

    You’ve been wrong every step you Mong 😂
    Just like you were telling me I wasn’t intercepting with rhino properly. Guess what that was, bug. All you’re doing is jumping from thread to thread telling people they’re wrong when in fact it’s you who’s wrong.
    This is an issue, keep making out like it’s not all you want. You look like a spanner hoss.
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