Definition of buffs/debuffs vs passive buffs/debuffs
lm2
Member Posts: 24 ★
Hello @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos
With the recent news on Wasp no longer being able to stun stun immune nodes, would it be possible to get a definition of how normal buffs and debuffs are expected to work versus passive buffs and debuffs?
My understanding is that normal buffs and debuffs are interactive meaning they can countered, such as mystic champions nullifying buffs or characters like Crossbones or Agent Venom shrugging off debuffs.
With passive buffs and debuffs my understanding was these are not interactive, meaning mystic champions cannot nullify them, capiw cannot deal with unstoppable passives and as such debuffs worked the same way, meaning they cannot be shrugged off or otherwise avoided, which is why Archangels passive stun was changed to a standard stun.
Also, second question, will Wasps stun be changed to a normal debuff (like what was done to Archangel) or will it still be a passive debuff?
Note, I do not want this conversation to drag into a are passive buffs good or bad for the game, rather what is the expectation for them.
With the recent news on Wasp no longer being able to stun stun immune nodes, would it be possible to get a definition of how normal buffs and debuffs are expected to work versus passive buffs and debuffs?
My understanding is that normal buffs and debuffs are interactive meaning they can countered, such as mystic champions nullifying buffs or characters like Crossbones or Agent Venom shrugging off debuffs.
With passive buffs and debuffs my understanding was these are not interactive, meaning mystic champions cannot nullify them, capiw cannot deal with unstoppable passives and as such debuffs worked the same way, meaning they cannot be shrugged off or otherwise avoided, which is why Archangels passive stun was changed to a standard stun.
Also, second question, will Wasps stun be changed to a normal debuff (like what was done to Archangel) or will it still be a passive debuff?
Note, I do not want this conversation to drag into a are passive buffs good or bad for the game, rather what is the expectation for them.
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Comments
Passives cannot be nullified because they are not buffs, so unless an ability specifies that it nullifies passives, or that it nullifies all "effects", not buffs, it can't nullify passives. CapIW specifies that he can only nullify unstoppable buffs, which passive unstoppables are not. And shruggers will specify that they shrug off debuffs, which again, passives are not. Any effect can be buff/debuff or passive, and it will work the exact same way regardless, the only difference being whether or not it's considered a buff/debuff or not.
If they say passive BUFF or DEBUFF, it will affect those passive stun nerf thing.
But its pretty obvious champs have passive Buffs
Or passive Debuffs.
By kabams logic, you can place passive debuffs on debuff immune node, but cant passive stun champs on stun immune node.
Stun immune means any type of stun but
Debuff immune is not for passive ones which is funny. This whole thing is a joke, even AA neurotoxin stun nerf is a joke, after that intentional mechanic discovered someone from kabam literally said that it’s working as intended, but over the years it gets too OP and kabam was like, aight lets just nerf this dude and they made some things up. Overall its them who makes rule so can’t do anything but accept it.
As for 3rd and other quote you keep implying that i dont know anything about it. While im here just trying to explain obvious thing that kabam decided to make it harder to understand in order to confuse ppl. So they can do some stuffs. Like AA nerf.
Looks like you are more of Follow the Order kinda guy
Im more of seek the truth kinda person so, hope our argument come to an end this way.
I don’t see how that is passive.
The release notes from January 2016 describe Willpower as a passive healing effect. The 9.1 update from July 2016 (which I had to dig up from Trucos) describes Elektra as "passively" reducing defensive ability accuracy. And Magik's Limbo damage has always been a passive damage over time effect. It doesn't have an icon, but it triggers Face Me which means it is in fact a passive DoT effect.
There are under the hood technicalities here, but outside the teeny number of people outside of Kabam that are aware of them, they aren't relevant to this discussion. As far as players are concerned, effects are either typed "Buff" or "Debuff" or "Passive" regardless of whether the player think the effect is colloquially a buff or debuff. These are just labels as far as the game is concerned: Blue, Red, and Purple. When something says it interacts with Buffs, it doesn't interact with things the player thinks are buffs, it interacts with things that are labeled Blue.
Given the way the devs are currently implementing things in the game, no effect should have more than one label: it is either Blue, Red, or Purple. If it is Blue, it isn't Purple. If it is Purple, it isn't Blue.
And because this came up in another thread recently, I should point out that Abilities and Effects are two different things. Passive Abilities are not Passive Effects, and Passive Abilities do not necessarily generate Passive Effects. A Passive Ability is an ability that is always on. A Passive Effect is an effect that is tagged with the purple tag.