Dr Doom Stagger not Removing Cosmic Control Rod

JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
in Bugs and Known Issues
See photos below. Maybe I’m missing something but shouldn’t Doctor Doom’s stagger effects remove the cosmic control rod based on Annihilus’ ability description? I placed two staggers on him but neither was purified and removed the control rod.







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Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
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  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Member Posts: 3,347 ★★★★
    I think it works more like this. Let's say there is the cosmic control rod and 1 stagger active on annihilus. Then later annihilus activates unstoppable. Instead of the stagger removing the unstoppable, the cosmic control rod is removed in its place.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    Championcritic said:

    I think it works more like this. Let's say there is the cosmic control rod and 1 stagger active on annihilus. Then later annihilus activates unstoppable. Instead of the stagger removing the unstoppable, the cosmic control rod is removed in its place.

    That’s not what Annihilus’ ability says. You are creating your own ability description. If what you’re saying is true, then Annihilus should start the fight with a stagger effect AND the cosmic control rod against Symbiote Supreme, but he doesn’t. He doesn’t start the fight with either of them because the stagger gets purified and the control rod gets removed. Just like his abilities say. See screen shots of the first few seconds of the fight.






  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    edited December 2019
    Maybe I could clarify how I interpret what Annihilus’ ability says. “Whenever the opponent (Dr Doom) activates a stagger ability, the effect (stagger) is purified and the control rod is removed for 10 seconds”. The first part indicates that this interaction takes place when the opponent activates an effect, not when Annihilus activates an effect. So it should trigger as soon as a stagger effect is placed by Dr Doom.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Member Posts: 3,347 ★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    Championcritic said:

    I think it works more like this. Let's say there is the cosmic control rod and 1 stagger active on annihilus. Then later annihilus activates unstoppable. Instead of the stagger removing the unstoppable, the cosmic control rod is removed in its place.

    That’s not what Annihilus’ ability says. You are creating your own ability description. If what you’re saying is true, then Annihilus should start the fight with a stagger effect AND the cosmic control rod against Symbiote Supreme, but he doesn’t. He doesn’t start the fight with either of them because the stagger gets purified and the control rod gets removed. Just like his abilities say. See screen shots of the first few seconds of the fight.






    Its a bit different with symbiote supreme because symbiote supreme's chthon's cunning will immediately nullify the cosmic rod at the beginning of the battle.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Member Posts: 3,347 ★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    True it's a bit different, but the rod description clearly says whenever a stagger is placed on him it immediately gets removed, in contrast to the normal, opposite action of stagger.

    yeah after reading annihilus abilities im leaning towards you abit.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    Championcritic said:

    JosephPoerio said:

    Championcritic said:

    I think it works more like this. Let's say there is the cosmic control rod and 1 stagger active on annihilus. Then later annihilus activates unstoppable. Instead of the stagger removing the unstoppable, the cosmic control rod is removed in its place.

    That’s not what Annihilus’ ability says. You are creating your own ability description. If what you’re saying is true, then Annihilus should start the fight with a stagger effect AND the cosmic control rod against Symbiote Supreme, but he doesn’t. He doesn’t start the fight with either of them because the stagger gets purified and the control rod gets removed. Just like his abilities say. See screen shots of the first few seconds of the fight.






    Its a bit different with symbiote supreme because symbiote supreme's chthon's cunning will immediately nullify the cosmic rod at the beginning of the battle.
    I know what you mean by this, but actually it wouldn’t be any different due to Annihilus’ ability description. Even the nullify would get purified so it wouldn’t “nullify” the control rod buff but rather just remove it due to Annihilius’ ability. The interaction should be identical for a nullify effect AND a stagger effect, as well as any fate seal effects.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    It is whenever the stagger is ACTIVATED. the stagger is activated when a debuff appears after the stagger is on the champion. Placing the stagger on the champion is not activating it.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    Championcritic said:

    I think it works more like this. Let's say there is the cosmic control rod and 1 stagger active on annihilus. Then later annihilus activates unstoppable. Instead of the stagger removing the unstoppable, the cosmic control rod is removed in its place.

    That’s not what Annihilus’ ability says. You are creating your own ability description. If what you’re saying is true, then Annihilus should start the fight with a stagger effect AND the cosmic control rod against Symbiote Supreme, but he doesn’t. He doesn’t start the fight with either of them because the stagger gets purified and the control rod gets removed. Just like his abilities say. See screen shots of the first few seconds of the fight.






    In these pictures the duped SS placed a stagger at the start of the fight which is then triggered when the rod buff is stripped due to the stagger. If you fight any champs with buffs at start the first stagger will strip them as well.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    Championcritic said:

    JosephPoerio said:

    Championcritic said:

    I think it works more like this. Let's say there is the cosmic control rod and 1 stagger active on annihilus. Then later annihilus activates unstoppable. Instead of the stagger removing the unstoppable, the cosmic control rod is removed in its place.

    That’s not what Annihilus’ ability says. You are creating your own ability description. If what you’re saying is true, then Annihilus should start the fight with a stagger effect AND the cosmic control rod against Symbiote Supreme, but he doesn’t. He doesn’t start the fight with either of them because the stagger gets purified and the control rod gets removed. Just like his abilities say. See screen shots of the first few seconds of the fight.






    Its a bit different with symbiote supreme because symbiote supreme's chthon's cunning will immediately nullify the cosmic rod at the beginning of the battle.
    I know what you mean by this, but actually it wouldn’t be any different due to Annihilus’ ability description. Even the nullify would get purified so it wouldn’t “nullify” the control rod buff but rather just remove it due to Annihilius’ ability. The interaction should be identical for a nullify effect AND a stagger effect, as well as any fate seal effects.
    And it is, the only differnce is a stagger is a delayed/triggered activation where as fate seal and nullify effects are instantaneous.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    Lormif said:

    It is whenever the stagger is ACTIVATED. the stagger is activated when a debuff appears after the stagger is on the champion. Placing the stagger on the champion is not activating it.

    A stagger is a delayed nullify. Therefore the “stagger” effect is “activated” as soon as it’s placed. The nullify portion of the stagger is activated when a buff is gained and nullified by the stagger. You are mixing up the two.

  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    Lormif said:

    It is whenever the stagger is ACTIVATED. the stagger is activated when a debuff appears after the stagger is on the champion. Placing the stagger on the champion is not activating it.

    A stagger is a delayed nullify. Therefore the “stagger” effect is “activated” as soon as it’s placed. The nullify portion of the stagger is activated when a buff is gained and nullified by the stagger. You are mixing up the two.

    No, it is activated as soon as it strips a debuff. The nullify is the activation. You are confusing what "activate" means.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    See there’s actually two effects caused by a stagger. The first part is the stagger (A delayed nullify), the second part is the nullify. If Annihilus’ ability said the control rod was removed when a NULLIFY effect was activated only, then I would agree, but it doesn’t.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    Lormif said:

    JosephPoerio said:

    Lormif said:

    It is whenever the stagger is ACTIVATED. the stagger is activated when a debuff appears after the stagger is on the champion. Placing the stagger on the champion is not activating it.

    A stagger is a delayed nullify. Therefore the “stagger” effect is “activated” as soon as it’s placed. The nullify portion of the stagger is activated when a buff is gained and nullified by the stagger. You are mixing up the two.

    No, it is activated as soon as it strips a debuff. The nullify is the activation. You are confusing what "activate" means.
    This is incorrect.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    edited December 2019
    If what you’re saying is correct, why wouldn’t his ability just say “Whenever a buff is nullified, the control rod is removed”? Why specify that nullify, fate seal, and stagger effects get purified? In fact, by your logic NONE of these effects would actually ever “activate” since they get purified.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    Lormif said:

    JosephPoerio said:

    Lormif said:

    It is whenever the stagger is ACTIVATED. the stagger is activated when a debuff appears after the stagger is on the champion. Placing the stagger on the champion is not activating it.

    A stagger is a delayed nullify. Therefore the “stagger” effect is “activated” as soon as it’s placed. The nullify portion of the stagger is activated when a buff is gained and nullified by the stagger. You are mixing up the two.

    No, it is activated as soon as it strips a debuff. The nullify is the activation. You are confusing what "activate" means.
    This is incorrect.
    That is correct. If you lay a landmine on the ground that says "when activated blows up", it does not blow up when you place it, it blows up when the triggering event occurs, when someone walks over it. Activation means you trigger it, not just place it.

    As to why it says stagger, only a few instances of "stagger" even state nullify, in fact you will note that SS does not mention nullify in its half its descriptions of stagger. But the problem is you are replying on what you feel is an extraneous word while ignoring the action keyword "activate"
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    You are arguing semantics at this point. A stagger does not have to nullify anything in order to be a stagger. Having an “active” stagger effect means the next buff will be nullified, but if no buff is nullified that doesn’t mean there was no active stagger.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    We are arguing over what the word “activate” means in the context of the game. I think at the very least, clarification should be provided by a moderator or admin. Maybe even clarification added to the control rod ability description.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    You are arguing semantics at this point. A stagger does not have to nullify anything in order to be a stagger. Having an “active” stagger effect means the next buff will be nullified, but if no buff is nullified that doesn’t mean there was no active stagger.

    you have been arguing semantics this entire time, claiming I am arguing it holds no weight. the description of the ability does not say when "when inflicted with a stagger" or "when a stagger is placed", or even "having an active stagger" it says "when the opponent ACTIVATES a stagger". You are now attempting to rephrase it in a way to support your belief.

    you stated early that they shoulod all act the same way, but you really want stagger to act differently

    fate seal nullifies all current buffs
    nullify nullifies buffs

    So it makes sense that what they mean by stagger activating is nullifying buffs, that is how it works.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    Yea you’re missing the point here as always. I said they should all act the same with regards to Annihilus’ ability description. As in, they should all cause the same effect. However, they are very different abilities as a stagger can be activated without ever nullifying anything.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Member Posts: 269 ★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Ignore him, you are correct about the stagger.

    Thank you lol
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    JosephPoerio said:

    Yea you’re missing the point here as always. I said they should all act the same with regards to Annihilus’ ability description. As in, they should all cause the same effect. However, they are very different abilities as a stagger can be activated without ever nullifying anything.

    And they do all work in the same way in regards to annihilus's ability description, it happens when they nullify one of his debuffs, you will note that nullify in no way places a passive or debuff on the champion. If you had it the way you want it there would still be a dependency in how it activates with annihillus' ability description.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    True it's a bit different, but the rod description clearly says whenever a stagger is placed on him it immediately gets removed, in contrast to the normal, opposite action of stagger.

    it does not say when it is placed on him, it says when it is activated.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Fredhorst23 said:

    Oh man, take the win! I said the original spotlight brah. Not his in game description.

    I posted that at the exact same time you posted your correction, sorry I could not have known you were correcting.
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