Fantastic Four: Science or Cosmic??????
Ultravenga
Member Posts: 4 ★
Ok summoners,
Please chime in your thoughts on the Fantastic Four being listed in the MCOC as SCIENCE??? I mean, has anyone read their bios up here??? They specifically list that the cosmic radiation gave them their powers. Not any serum or scientific development. Just my thoughts. But I would love to hear a different perspective. Same for Doom by the way. Chime in...
Please chime in your thoughts on the Fantastic Four being listed in the MCOC as SCIENCE??? I mean, has anyone read their bios up here??? They specifically list that the cosmic radiation gave them their powers. Not any serum or scientific development. Just my thoughts. But I would love to hear a different perspective. Same for Doom by the way. Chime in...
2
Comments
Doom is 100% Mystic. No question about it.
Doctor Doom: Mystic suits him, only other class he could have been is tech
Since Marvel is closely tied to this game, how does it work when creating Original characters made by Kabam, since it's technically co owned by the 2 parties? I'm thinking like Civil Warrior or Venom the duck. How is the class decided then?
In other words, even though Kabam's designers might have created Venom the Duck, that process was no different than any other Marvel author creating characters for the comic books, where Marvel the corporation still owns them. And as part of that process, Kabam would have worked with Marvel just as much as when they translate existing characters to the game like Silver Surfer.
In other words, if an Asgardian replicated the experiment that created the Hulk, he'd probably be Science origin. That's because the most important aspect of that being's superpowers would come from a scientific process (other than genetic mutation) and not from his Asgardian nature.
In the comic books and comic book logic, there's "normal" science that we learn in school, and then there's "super-science" that involves principles the universe obeys just like our everyday normal science but allows for superhuman abilities. This is an artificial distinction (obviously) but that's where the "Science origin" boundary lies. This is analogous to how we might look at (fictional) Kung Fu movies. In the fictional universe those movies exist in, there exist a level of skill people can achieve that allows them to do things that are blatantly impossible in our ordinary world. But in that fictional world, those things aren't "superhuman" they are "really really skilled human" and there exists a level of skill that makes the impossible possible.
It was stated in the Thing Spotlight: For Cosmic vs. Science, Marvel's suggestion was that the F4 are in-line with other champions who were exposed to radiation due to experiments (like Spider-Man or Hulk). We consider aliens and people changed by alien experiments (like Captain Marvel) to be Cosmic.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/697613/#Comment_697613
I recall that statement. I don't think that general rule of thumb contradicts what I said about origins. It is a very off-the-cuff statement about a general rule of thumb: there are aliens that are not cosmic - for example, literally a month before making that statement Kabam released Aegon, a skill origin alien being, and Warlock and Ebony Maw are other exceptions to the alien=cosmic rule.
Consider Rocket Raccoon. Rocket is an alien. Furthermore Rocket is the product of alien experimentation. But he is tech, because the idea that he is tech is stronger than the rules of thumb for aliens being cosmic. These rules overlap and contradict in many ways, so finding one statement about how the origins work doesn't offer guidance by itself. You have to look at the totality of all the rules of thumb that seem to be working together.
I wasn't contradicting, just providing the statement that I originally pulled from. Granted... Everything is subject to interpretation. The main thing that I pulled from the quote is that Kabam stated this was "Marvel's" suggestion, so it is more how Marvel classifies, not necessarily how Kabam does. That being said, Kabam is a little more looser with Cosmic. Like in your Aegon example - which should be Cosmic per Marvel's opinion... Besides F4 are Marvel Characters, while Aegon is a Kabam original character. Therefore, Kabam most likely went by Aegon's Skill Set and abilities more than a general classification like how Marvel suggests.
Not to mention that you point of Rocket is more in line with Doc Oct and SL. It was determined that while Doc Oct is a scientist, his powers were derived from the technology... same with Green Goblin. The same rules would apply to Rocket. It isn't so much the Alien Experimentation or being an Alien, but the technology of the implants and lasers he uses that give him his abilities. Much like SL uses Technology (though be it alien)...
And as I mentioned previously, I believe players are making a stronger distinction between "Kabam" characters and "Marvel" characters than actually exists in reality. They are all Marvel characters literally from the moment the idea pops into a Kabam designer's head. That's both the legal rule in the US (where Marvel is based) and the way these things are generally handled even when just writing comic books.
I would be surprised to the point of astonishment if Kabam wasn't operating under work for hire rules.
Anything Kabam makes in their Game that is 100% from their own fabrication and isn’t a Marvel owned property and most likely licensed to Marvel for usage in their comic books. It would be a mutual beneficial. I may be wrong and Kabam may sell their characters outright, but there may be a clause that absolves them of any licensing fees as it was a independently created champion.
However, any idea of the business relation is purely assumption based. However, as a legal matter... Kabam owns the game, not any preexisting Marvel character and would have to pay royalties in order to use. That is why coveted champions are released slowly... most companies cannot dump the licensing fees for all the top champions everyone wants and why we get some lesser known champs mixed in with well-known ones.
When I did work for a game developer, I pretty much had to sign those rights away myself: this is the applicable section of the contract:
As to those royalties, you should ask your contacts if those royalties are coming from creator-owned contracts or as part of the normal work-for-hire contracts. Work for hire contracts can have royalties built into them: Mark Waid touched on this a bit back when Man of Steel (the movie) came out (addressing both Marvel and DC): http://thrillbent.com/blog/how-dc-contracts-work/
Marvel doesn't likely own the game itself. The game is what's known in the intellectual property world as a collage work. It is a work composed of other copyright protected works. It is possible - which is to say likely - that when Kabam designs a character that is a work for hire construct that Marvel owns the copyright for, but when Kabam implements that character in the game that implementation is something that Kabam owns, and is licensed by Marvel to use the character itself for.
As to those royalties, you should ask your contacts if those royalties are coming from creator-owned contracts or as part of the normal work-for-hire contracts. Work for hire contracts can have royalties built into them: Mark Waid touched on this a bit back when Man of Steel (the movie) came out (addressing both Marvel and DC): http://thrillbent.com/blog/how-dc-contracts-work/
Marvel doesn't likely own the game itself. The game is what's known in the intellectual property world as a collage work. It is a work composed of other copyright protected works. It is possible - which is to say likely - that when Kabam designs a character that is a work for hire construct that Marvel owns the copyright for, but when Kabam implements that character in the game that implementation is something that Kabam owns, and is licensed by Marvel to use the character itself for.
I am very familiar with Mark Waid... My contact worked with him very closely.
My contact was not work for hire, they were a creator owned contract. They worked on several DC own IPs... they developed their own content in those IPs. They make royalties on their contributions to this day despite leaving DC. They got some substantial royalties when Justice League came out and references were simply hinted at that he created.
supposedly, this was done by Marvel to avoid Squirrel Girl becoming usable by Fox way back when Fox brought the movie rights to Mutants for X-Men.