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Just did some math on these new potions

Primis00Primis00 Posts: 265 ★★★
in General Discussion
I don't think these new potions are a good addition to the game at all. It just gives spenders even more of an advantage in a mode that should be fair to everyone.

The biggest of new single heal potions for alliance war heals for 14k for 1 potion. If you use only potions in a war and no revives you can heal your champions for a total of 210k HP (14k X 15)

Now for the old potions that you can get for free via glory, The max heal on 1 potion is 6k. That means that if you only use potions in a war the max healing you can get is 90k HP (6k X 15)

This is a pretty huge advantage for players that spend a lot of money on the game. Spenders will be able to use way less potions and get way more health back on champions making the heal per item a lot higher.

I do not understand why the old potions couldnt get an update like the questing potions did instead of making something so incredibly unfair.

Comments

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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    I dont like it either but end of the day, these dont have to be your go to pot for alliance modes. My plan is to occasionally buy one or two with grinded units just to build a stash for emergency reserves when you get low on items. Far from what any of us wanted but at least the option is there now
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    Primis00Primis00 Posts: 265 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150640/#Comment_1150640

    Some other math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150659/#Comment_1150659

    Bottom line: the new potions are, in terms of health recovered per unit spent, about 2.0 to 2.5 times stronger.

    Whether you think that is a reasonable advantage to hand to players with a lot of units to burn - which isn't just spenders, it is spenders and grinders - is a matter of opinion. But spenders and grinders are always going to have an advantage in this game, because the game is always going to reward those who play more, and it has to reward those who spend simply because that's the only way the game survives. How much each should be rewarded is the debate. And every time you hear someone talk about how bad an offer is or how stupid Kabam is for making a bad offer, you're seeing this debate play out. Giving them too much of an advantage is unbalancing and bad for the game, but giving them too little of an advantage is disincentivizing and also bad for the game. And there's no equation that let's you calculate what the correct middle ground should be.

    Let me put it this way. With the current potions people can still spend money on them to heal, However the heal amount will remain the same. It doesnt matter if someone spends more money than me on potions because that wont give them an advantage since i also heal for the same amount. With the new potions people who spend will always be able to heal more than me unless i choose to spend aswell. Sure people who spend can also get more boosts helping in alliance war but atleast they werent able to heal more then be.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Happyadam00 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150640/#Comment_1150640

    Some other math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150659/#Comment_1150659

    Bottom line: the new potions are, in terms of health recovered per unit spent, about 2.0 to 2.5 times stronger.

    Whether you think that is a reasonable advantage to hand to players with a lot of units to burn - which isn't just spenders, it is spenders and grinders - is a matter of opinion. But spenders and grinders are always going to have an advantage in this game, because the game is always going to reward those who play more, and it has to reward those who spend simply because that's the only way the game survives. How much each should be rewarded is the debate. And every time you hear someone talk about how bad an offer is or how stupid Kabam is for making a bad offer, you're seeing this debate play out. Giving them too much of an advantage is unbalancing and bad for the game, but giving them too little of an advantage is disincentivizing and also bad for the game. And there's no equation that let's you calculate what the correct middle ground should be.

    Let me put it this way. With the current potions people can still spend money on them to heal, However the heal amount will remain the same. It doesnt matter if someone spends more money than me on potions because that wont give them an advantage since i also heal for the same amount. With the new potions people who spend will always be able to heal more than me unless i choose to spend aswell. Sure people who spend can also get more boosts helping in alliance war but atleast they werent able to heal more then be.
    How is starting with 50% more health that much different though honestly? Upper tier war has always been about who spends the most on items
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    Primis00Primis00 Posts: 265 ★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Happyadam00 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150640/#Comment_1150640

    Some other math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150659/#Comment_1150659

    Bottom line: the new potions are, in terms of health recovered per unit spent, about 2.0 to 2.5 times stronger.

    Whether you think that is a reasonable advantage to hand to players with a lot of units to burn - which isn't just spenders, it is spenders and grinders - is a matter of opinion. But spenders and grinders are always going to have an advantage in this game, because the game is always going to reward those who play more, and it has to reward those who spend simply because that's the only way the game survives. How much each should be rewarded is the debate. And every time you hear someone talk about how bad an offer is or how stupid Kabam is for making a bad offer, you're seeing this debate play out. Giving them too much of an advantage is unbalancing and bad for the game, but giving them too little of an advantage is disincentivizing and also bad for the game. And there's no equation that let's you calculate what the correct middle ground should be.

    Let me put it this way. With the current potions people can still spend money on them to heal, However the heal amount will remain the same. It doesnt matter if someone spends more money than me on potions because that wont give them an advantage since i also heal for the same amount. With the new potions people who spend will always be able to heal more than me unless i choose to spend aswell. Sure people who spend can also get more boosts helping in alliance war but atleast they werent able to heal more then be.
    How is starting with 50% more health that much different though honestly? Upper tier war has always been about who spends the most on items
    Ok so let me set a situation for you. Kind of an unlikely one in some ways but it gets the point across in my opinion.

    First there is me. Who spends but has never bought an odins.

    I have boosted and my current champion is on 1 hp and my total hp is 35k on that champion. I would have to use 5 potions + a smaller one to get max hp.

    This other player is in the same situation but he has the bigger potions. He can use 2 + 1 lower level one.

    This means i have to use 2-3 more potions then the other player. He can now still use 12 potions in this war while i can use 9. He i will have more items to use if something goes wrong for him while i might get stuck because all my items are used up.
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    Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    Happyadam00 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Happyadam00 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150640/#Comment_1150640

    Some other math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150659/#Comment_1150659

    Bottom line: the new potions are, in terms of health recovered per unit spent, about 2.0 to 2.5 times stronger.

    Whether you think that is a reasonable advantage to hand to players with a lot of units to burn - which isn't just spenders, it is spenders and grinders - is a matter of opinion. But spenders and grinders are always going to have an advantage in this game, because the game is always going to reward those who play more, and it has to reward those who spend simply because that's the only way the game survives. How much each should be rewarded is the debate. And every time you hear someone talk about how bad an offer is or how stupid Kabam is for making a bad offer, you're seeing this debate play out. Giving them too much of an advantage is unbalancing and bad for the game, but giving them too little of an advantage is disincentivizing and also bad for the game. And there's no equation that let's you calculate what the correct middle ground should be.

    Let me put it this way. With the current potions people can still spend money on them to heal, However the heal amount will remain the same. It doesnt matter if someone spends more money than me on potions because that wont give them an advantage since i also heal for the same amount. With the new potions people who spend will always be able to heal more than me unless i choose to spend aswell. Sure people who spend can also get more boosts helping in alliance war but atleast they werent able to heal more then be.
    How is starting with 50% more health that much different though honestly? Upper tier war has always been about who spends the most on items
    Ok so let me set a situation for you. Kind of an unlikely one in some ways but it gets the point across in my opinion.

    First there is me. Who spends but has never bought an odins.

    I have boosted and my current champion is on 1 hp and my total hp is 35k on that champion. I would have to use 5 potions + a smaller one to get max hp.

    This other player is in the same situation but he has the bigger potions. He can use 2 + 1 lower level one.

    This means i have to use 2-3 more potions then the other player. He can now still use 12 potions in this war while i can use 9. He i will have more items to use if something goes wrong for him while i might get stuck because all my items are used up.
    So in your opinion someone who spends should not get an advantage? That is not very realistic
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    NeotwismNeotwism Posts: 1,803 ★★★★★
    Glory can be earned in the game just the same as units. It would be nice if their was other ways of purchasing the larger potions besides units like with glory or loyalty even, but I don't see it being that huge of a deal.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Happyadam00 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Happyadam00 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150640/#Comment_1150640

    Some other math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150659/#Comment_1150659

    Bottom line: the new potions are, in terms of health recovered per unit spent, about 2.0 to 2.5 times stronger.

    Whether you think that is a reasonable advantage to hand to players with a lot of units to burn - which isn't just spenders, it is spenders and grinders - is a matter of opinion. But spenders and grinders are always going to have an advantage in this game, because the game is always going to reward those who play more, and it has to reward those who spend simply because that's the only way the game survives. How much each should be rewarded is the debate. And every time you hear someone talk about how bad an offer is or how stupid Kabam is for making a bad offer, you're seeing this debate play out. Giving them too much of an advantage is unbalancing and bad for the game, but giving them too little of an advantage is disincentivizing and also bad for the game. And there's no equation that let's you calculate what the correct middle ground should be.

    Let me put it this way. With the current potions people can still spend money on them to heal, However the heal amount will remain the same. It doesnt matter if someone spends more money than me on potions because that wont give them an advantage since i also heal for the same amount. With the new potions people who spend will always be able to heal more than me unless i choose to spend aswell. Sure people who spend can also get more boosts helping in alliance war but atleast they werent able to heal more then be.
    How is starting with 50% more health that much different though honestly? Upper tier war has always been about who spends the most on items
    Ok so let me set a situation for you. Kind of an unlikely one in some ways but it gets the point across in my opinion.

    First there is me. Who spends but has never bought an odins.

    I have boosted and my current champion is on 1 hp and my total hp is 35k on that champion. I would have to use 5 potions + a smaller one to get max hp.

    This other player is in the same situation but he has the bigger potions. He can use 2 + 1 lower level one.

    This means i have to use 2-3 more potions then the other player. He can now still use 12 potions in this war while i can use 9. He i will have more items to use if something goes wrong for him while i might get stuck because all my items are used up.
    I get that but you always have the option to let the boosts fall off before healing.

    Again, I don't like it but it's not as bad as I assumed initially. You can always occasionally buy a pot or two with units for emergency reserves when you're in that situation and dont have the time or the boosts to wait. You dont HAVE to switch to the new pots being your main
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    NojokejaymNojokejaym Posts: 3,912 ★★★★★
    These potions are a joke
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    Primis00Primis00 Posts: 265 ★★★
    edited March 2020
    Mcord11758 said:

    Happyadam00 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Happyadam00 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150640/#Comment_1150640

    Some other math: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150659/#Comment_1150659

    Bottom line: the new potions are, in terms of health recovered per unit spent, about 2.0 to 2.5 times stronger.

    Whether you think that is a reasonable advantage to hand to players with a lot of units to burn - which isn't just spenders, it is spenders and grinders - is a matter of opinion. But spenders and grinders are always going to have an advantage in this game, because the game is always going to reward those who play more, and it has to reward those who spend simply because that's the only way the game survives. How much each should be rewarded is the debate. And every time you hear someone talk about how bad an offer is or how stupid Kabam is for making a bad offer, you're seeing this debate play out. Giving them too much of an advantage is unbalancing and bad for the game, but giving them too little of an advantage is disincentivizing and also bad for the game. And there's no equation that let's you calculate what the correct middle ground should be.

    Let me put it this way. With the current potions people can still spend money on them to heal, However the heal amount will remain the same. It doesnt matter if someone spends more money than me on potions because that wont give them an advantage since i also heal for the same amount. With the new potions people who spend will always be able to heal more than me unless i choose to spend aswell. Sure people who spend can also get more boosts helping in alliance war but atleast they werent able to heal more then be.
    How is starting with 50% more health that much different though honestly? Upper tier war has always been about who spends the most on items
    Ok so let me set a situation for you. Kind of an unlikely one in some ways but it gets the point across in my opinion.

    First there is me. Who spends but has never bought an odins.

    I have boosted and my current champion is on 1 hp and my total hp is 35k on that champion. I would have to use 5 potions + a smaller one to get max hp.

    This other player is in the same situation but he has the bigger potions. He can use 2 + 1 lower level one.

    This means i have to use 2-3 more potions then the other player. He can now still use 12 potions in this war while i can use 9. He i will have more items to use if something goes wrong for him while i might get stuck because all my items are used up.
    So in your opinion someone who spends should not get an advantage? That is not very realistic
    In a competetive game i dont think so. Thats why pay 2 win is something that is usually frowned upon. spending to get trough content is fine by me. It should however not affect alliance war.

    Edit: i know the game is free and thats why spending is something that supports devs and is a really good thing. But in the competetive aspect i dont think spending should equal a bigger advantage.
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    TipoTipo Posts: 113 ★
    1 thing no1 is considering is the strength of r4-5 6*s. The war defenders are gonna basically double in the future balancing these potions effectiveness much closer to what we currently have.
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    Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 1,504 ★★★★★
    Mcord11758 said:

    Just stop it. They didn’t create these and then sell them for units because they think people will grind more arena. The intent is crystal clear. There is nothing wrong with it but it is clearly to drive sales

    Actually it's an answer for max 5*s and future 6* rank ups that have much higher health pools. The ones that are currently being used were for 4* champs.
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    Primis00Primis00 Posts: 265 ★★★
    Zuko_ILC said:

    Mcord11758 said:

    Just stop it. They didn’t create these and then sell them for units because they think people will grind more arena. The intent is crystal clear. There is nothing wrong with it but it is clearly to drive sales

    Actually it's an answer for max 5*s and future 6* rank ups that have much higher health pools. The ones that are currently being used were for 4* champs.
    Yeah but if thats the case they need to make them at least in the future, Available to buy for glory.
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    Primis00Primis00 Posts: 265 ★★★
    Lohan33 said:

    If a spender needs 210k gealth per war they are likely gonna lose anyways cause they sound terrible

    They might not need to spend every single item but its still a huge difference between being able to heal 210k vs 90k
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    Erik_Killmonger1001Erik_Killmonger1001 Posts: 427 ★★★
    look I know its not great but unless you want to pay to install it you will unfortunately have to put up with pay to win BS. The company has to make money somewhere and a seatin puts it, its a clown fiesta at the best of times. Just try to be content with the fact the whales spend enough that you dont have to and keep it freemium as supposed to pay to play
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    DabNation1DabNation1 Posts: 22 ★
    That’s life, money talks. It’s rougher for the free to play players but again that is how our world works. It’s not always fair but it’s a a great step forward IMO. I am someone who buys AW potions almost weekly because i tend to take 8-9 fights a war: i spend 90 percent of my glory on potions and still have to spend 100s of units a week on potions. Last war i spent 600 units on war, took 9 fights and had 1 death. With this new update my cost is cut by over 1/2.
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