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15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • Jon8299Jon8299 Posts: 1,067 ★★★
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Voluntaris wrote: »
    just watched the official MCOC 4 min video on new Alliance Wars .... *sigh*

    "We're removing defender kill points ... BUT upping attacker kill points!" --- which is ridiculous when both alliances get 100% explore (Which happens a TON in higher tier AW)

    ... so should state "We're removing defender kill points ... SO Alliance War becomes much more pay to win and when both alliances burn their wallets dry .... the WIN will come down to MUH DIVERSITY defenders!"

    fml

    Not just that but they say they got rid of thorns like they're doing us a favour, then they go an add nodes like flare which is just degen. Honestly that's just takes no skill or specific champ it's just unavoidable damage.

    Everything screams it's a cash grab an we want your money

    Sorry guys, I can't find the video you speak of. Could you post a link to it?

    https://youtu.be/eroAvZtoHok

    Layout seems good but I'm not a fan of flare either. Hope it's not on many nodes.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Why not? flare basically make you stronger then before ending fights fast

    I meant thanks for sharing the video. As for flare, there are a lot of bugs in the game and now we'll be dealing with flare every 2 days. At least I can choose to not the Act 5 until some of the bugs are fixed. I have Vision and Ms. Marvel in my questing team. I can't avoid AW forever cause I am in an alliance. Can't stay and be selfish.

    The attack boost from flare is fun, but no champ is immune to Degen. If it's only on a few nodes then sure it'll Be fine. But if there's an entire path of it that will be disappointing, I don't think there will be but who knows. I'd rather face thorns than flare because it can be countered with ability accuracy. Tanky bleed immune champs on that node are going to do a significant amount of Degen damage to attackers. If it's just one node in a path then fair enough. But if there's a few on one path then there's a good chance you'll lose a couple of champs regardless of how well you play. That and the removal of defender kill points take away from the skill element that AW has. But until we've seen the full map and nodes it's all just speculation anyway, I think AW will still Be good, but we'll have to wait and see.

    If they replace all Thorns nodes, there will be enough to make it annoying. Also there are champs aside from tanks who will be quite annoying on the flare nodes.

    True, was just using that as an example. I can imagine people like evaders or Hyperion could be useful there too since you have to play a bit more defensively. But they'll still take massive bleed damage from the attack boost so maybe not as effective as champs like king groot or dormammu etc

    I think Flare could end wars for some alliances if key champs are placed there. Of course I could be and hope I'm wrong.
  • MegaSkater67MegaSkater67 Posts: 1,377 ★★★★
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Voluntaris wrote: »
    just watched the official MCOC 4 min video on new Alliance Wars .... *sigh*

    "We're removing defender kill points ... BUT upping attacker kill points!" --- which is ridiculous when both alliances get 100% explore (Which happens a TON in higher tier AW)

    ... so should state "We're removing defender kill points ... SO Alliance War becomes much more pay to win and when both alliances burn their wallets dry .... the WIN will come down to MUH DIVERSITY defenders!"

    fml

    Not just that but they say they got rid of thorns like they're doing us a favour, then they go an add nodes like flare which is just degen. Honestly that's just takes no skill or specific champ it's just unavoidable damage.

    Everything screams it's a cash grab an we want your money

    Sorry guys, I can't find the video you speak of. Could you post a link to it?

    https://youtu.be/eroAvZtoHok

    Layout seems good but I'm not a fan of flare either. Hope it's not on many nodes.

    Thanks for sharing.

    Why not? flare basically make you stronger then before ending fights fast

    I meant thanks for sharing the video. As for flare, there are a lot of bugs in the game and now we'll be dealing with flare every 2 days. At least I can choose to not the Act 5 until some of the bugs are fixed. I have Vision and Ms. Marvel in my questing team. I can't avoid AW forever cause I am in an alliance. Can't stay and be selfish.

    The attack boost from flare is fun, but no champ is immune to Degen. If it's only on a few nodes then sure it'll Be fine. But if there's an entire path of it that will be disappointing, I don't think there will be but who knows. I'd rather face thorns than flare because it can be countered with ability accuracy. Tanky bleed immune champs on that node are going to do a significant amount of Degen damage to attackers. If it's just one node in a path then fair enough. But if there's a few on one path then there's a good chance you'll lose a couple of champs regardless of how well you play. That and the removal of defender kill points take away from the skill element that AW has. But until we've seen the full map and nodes it's all just speculation anyway, I think AW will still Be good, but we'll have to wait and see.

    If they replace all Thorns nodes, there will be enough to make it annoying. Also there are champs aside from tanks who will be quite annoying on the flare nodes.

    True, was just using that as an example. I can imagine people like evaders or Hyperion could be useful there too since you have to play a bit more defensively. But they'll still take massive bleed damage from the attack boost so maybe not as effective as champs like king groot or dormammu etc

    I think Flare could end wars for some alliances if key champs are placed there. Of course I could be and hope I'm wrong.

    Might be on the paths that aren't as important like how thorns and slashed tires used to be on the far right hand side. If that's the case and it's simply an opportunity for more explo flare will be fine to have there imo.
  • Jon8299Jon8299 Posts: 1,067 ★★★
    edited September 2017
    In tier 6 I think you start seeing thorns on unavoidable plaths. The other problem is, will we all have the same map now, or will there be differences in difficulty like the old maps?
  • AmonthirAmonthir Posts: 754 ★★★
    While they sound as though they won't increase rewards until a bit later, they still have time to do the right thing and bump them up before new Map.
  • KnackyKnacky Posts: 135
    Wow so its gone from big spenders having a big advantage, to big spenders being guaranteed the win. good job, seems well thought out -.-
  • Greywarden wrote: »
    I have another example of a war we barely won solely due to defense kills. @Kabam Miike I know you're only the voice of the game team but taking away defensive kills from points totals is going to make people not even try once they reach the "pay to win tier." If you guys are really concerned with people having a feeling of defeat, there will be no greater feeling of defeat when you go up against an item alliance and you don't have the resources to match.

    4f66xiebwski.png

    Also, reattaching my initial example from before the above war

    dua8i6ut1zr8.png

    Wow, @Greywarden am an officer in AuAv, you consider us pay to win..... yeah occasionally we use items that we have saved, but otherwise no, we are a free to play alliance. No spending required
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    **** as was expected. Go ahead ruin your own game
  • @Kabam Miike still waiting for an answer about our concerns regarding abuse of regen of champs without defender kills. Mods are choosing to reply to non trivial qns ,but absolute silence about issues like P2W wars without def kills, What happens to ppl with class detect masteries, unlimited tries using regen champ timeout method
  • Darkstar4387Darkstar4387 Posts: 2,145 ★★★
    Ugh and I think this version of war is going to be a lot worse then I thought judging by that preview and kabams own statements about said war.

    It seems like it's just a blantant cashgrab that the richer alliance will take advantage of now that their is no penalty for just launching themselves at the defense over and over until they clear the map.

    The portals just make it worse, there's a lot of alliances out there who aren't really rich and don't really spend on the game and this just enforces it.

    Occasionally it turns into pay to win, and there's been plenty of close wars that largely hinged on defender kills.

    This penalty is what stopped some people from reviving to much because it could cost them the war, now there is no such penalty so players can feel free to kill themselves over and over again.

    Skill likely won't mean as much anymore in the face of the wealthier alliances, and I really hope they change their mind about this but I doubt it as I've lost all hope in them as company due many issues that make it seem like they don't care and lack integrity.

    I expect a lot of anger, a lot of backlash, alliance's disbanding or merging , and maybe some quiting from players and alliances.

  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    I thought there were less links. Looks to be plenty in that preview
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,760 ★★★★★
    Purveyor wrote: »
    Nice account a certain moderator has for level 36. Especially when they have said over and over again they get nothing free and no preferential treatment.

    That's a test account! It doesn't play on the Live Server, and is only used for videos.

    Interesting name for a test account. Could have called it _xxxtest_ or any other name?

    So, there is an alternative server to bug test?
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,760 ★★★★★

    We have addressed that a few times. As we said, that was not the goal with the change. The goal with the removal of Defender kills wasn't to increase the use of Potions or Revives, but to relieve the feeling of defeat that comes with taking one shot at a defender, losing, and feeling that you're now helping the other Alliance, so you stop playing, even though you have 2 perfectly good attackers still there.

    I suggest that defender kill points starts to accrue once attacker champs dies thrice (whether it's the same champ or different champ). The attacker can continue to fight without feeling penalised when there are still two champs and the defenders is rewarded by shrewd champs placement.
  • loki_ikolloki_ikol Posts: 7
    @Greywarden you couldn't be more wrong about Alliance AUAV - we're definitely not pay for play We're a not going to pay to play alliance! You were almost beaten fair and square! We use items we earned and saved!
  • mostlyharmlessnmostlyharmlessn Posts: 1,387 ★★★★
    This is a time will tell situation, see how many more alliances fall apart, see how many simply stop doing AW.
  • @Kabam Miike , regarding removal of defender kills in AW scoring, please confirm the following scenario: 2 alliances battle, each achieving 100% exploration. One with higher defender diversity wins, if my understanding is correct.

    Now, let's extend this notion one step further. Alliance who is committed to 100% their opponents (as most top 20 war alliances do), would simply drop all possible champions on the map. It becomes irrelevant what the opponent does, as long as you 100% them and have better diversity..

    Taking it even further, those alliances with players who have rare champions like Kang and Thanos would be guaranteed greater champion diversity than their opponent who do not have Thanos on anyone's roster. As such, they are guaranteed a win regardless what the opponent does (if they 100%).

    Please correct me if I am wrong...
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 843 ★★★★
    Eeaattmmee wrote: »
    Greywarden wrote: »
    I have another example of a war we barely won solely due to defense kills. @Kabam Miike I know you're only the voice of the game team but taking away defensive kills from points totals is going to make people not even try once they reach the "pay to win tier." If you guys are really concerned with people having a feeling of defeat, there will be no greater feeling of defeat when you go up against an item alliance and you don't have the resources to match.

    4f66xiebwski.png

    Also, reattaching my initial example from before the above war

    dua8i6ut1zr8.png

    Wow, @Greywarden am an officer in AuAv, you consider us pay to win..... yeah occasionally we use items that we have saved, but otherwise no, we are a free to play alliance. No spending required

    I was using those wars as references to why taking away defender kills is a bad idea. You guys by no means went nuts on items but we did have 25 more defender kills which in 15.0 will account for nothing.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 843 ★★★★
    loki_ikol wrote: »
    @Greywarden you couldn't be more wrong about Alliance AUAV - we're definitely not pay for play We're a not going to pay to play alliance! You were almost beaten fair and square! We use items we earned and saved!

    @loki_ikol already replied to somebody else about this. I just used that war as an example of how much defender kills matter in AW. In 15.0 the same exact war will have different results.
  • AmonthirAmonthir Posts: 754 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike , regarding removal of defender kills in AW scoring, please confirm the following scenario: 2 alliances battle, each achieving 100% exploration. One with higher defender diversity wins, if my understanding is correct.

    Now, let's extend this notion one step further. Alliance who is committed to 100% their opponents (as most top 20 war alliances do), would simply drop all possible champions on the map. It becomes irrelevant what the opponent does, as long as you 100% them and have better diversity..

    Taking it even further, those alliances with players who have rare champions like Kang and Thanos would be guaranteed greater champion diversity than their opponent who do not have Thanos on anyone's roster. As such, they are guaranteed a win regardless what the opponent does (if they 100%).

    Please correct me if I am wrong...

    With only 50 defenders placeable, and many more champions than that in game, I don't think Thanos/Kang/OGUltron will be a sticking point on the diversity scale.
  • xsd4bv7tz1ci.jpg

    I draw it better :).
  • World EaterWorld Eater Posts: 3,570 ★★★★★
    More time consuming, more demanding, push for more item use and more spending.... what is the benefit to the players?
  • World EaterWorld Eater Posts: 3,570 ★★★★★
    Jon8299 wrote: »
    In tier 6 I think you start seeing thorns on unavoidable plaths. The other problem is, will we all have the same map now, or will there be differences in difficulty like the old maps?

    This is a great question; how will the maps change depending on tier? I don't believe this has been asked or addressed.
  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 1,198 ★★★
    MikeHock wrote: »
    More time consuming, more demanding, push for more item use and more spending.... what is the benefit to the players?

    benefit is all the money you'll spend on items, you won't be able to afford your car payment, thus you switch to bike riding to work, becoming healthier in the process! see, kabam just wants to make you healthy!
  • GodMan114GodMan114 Posts: 45
    I, too, like others, have detect masteries. I am hoping there is reimbursement for these, or is there another use? I see a boatload of peopple asking about detect masteries, and have not been able to find an answer.
    ARE THEY USELESS NOW? They're unncessary for AQ since we all find out what the champs are anyway. Detect masteries were useful in AW... now what?
  • MEŦAPħҰSMEŦAPħҰS Posts: 340 ★★
    edited September 2017
    GodMan114 wrote: »
    I, too, like others, have detect masteries. I am hoping there is reimbursement for these, or is there another use? I see a boatload of peopple asking about detect masteries, and have not been able to find an answer.
    ARE THEY USELESS NOW? They're unncessary for AQ since we all find out what the champs are anyway. Detect masteries were useful in AW... now what?

    pretty sure i read a comment from miike stating that he has brought that to the game team and they are discussing how to handle it

    edit: found the reply to a similar concern
    i9ltr4bw9jke.png
  • GodMan114GodMan114 Posts: 45
    @MEŦAPħҰS thanks, bud!!! 22 pages is hard to look through... I looked through for like 20 min then gave up... thanks again.
  • MEŦAPħҰSMEŦAPħҰS Posts: 340 ★★
    edited September 2017
    GodMan114 wrote: »
    @MEŦAPħҰS thanks, bud!!! 22 pages is hard to look through... I looked through for like 20 min then gave up... thanks again.

    i hear ya...luckily i read through most of it yesterday amd remembered about where it was.
This discussion has been closed.