Alliance A uses 0 items with 10 deaths for 100 percent
Alliance B uses 15 items from each player and dies 150 times for 100 percent
Alliance B has the more diverse unique champs that no one uses and still wins
Is that the tie breaker that you're talking about?
@Kabam Miike can you please answer this please. Looks like this is gonna be the new way of wars, more spending and placing of trash champs.. Great idea kabam, really great idea.
Every champion is worth points, but placing multiple of them will not get you multiple points.
Say you get 100 points for Each Champion, you placed 2 Magik, 2 Spiderman, and 1 Hyperion. You'll get points for 3 unique Champions.
Now, say you placed 1 Magik, 1 Spiderman (Stark Enhanced), 1 Spiderman (Symbiote), 1 Storm, and 1 Hyperion, you'll get points for 5 unique Champions.
But this doesn't only affect one player... It's across every player in every Battlegroup. That means that if your Alliance decides that every member will place an 1 Ultron, 1 Luke Cage, 1 Nightcrawler, 1 Guillotine, and 1 Civil Warrior, you only get Diversity points for 5 Champions. Because there aren't 150 unique Champions in the game, you won't be able to get diversity points for every Champion, but you can still get quite a bit by varying it up.
Hopefully this means that you won't be running into an entire path of Nightcrawlers, or 5 Magiks as often!
It also means that those of us that ranked up, invested sig stones to build strong AW defense just wasted all those resources.
Hopefully this means that you won't be running into an entire path of Nightcrawlers, or 5 Magiks as often!
Miike,
Playing devils advocate as I know you've already stated parameters for rank down tickets but, does this not qualify for rank down tickets since you've essentially devalued the purpose of ranking certain champs? Champs like Nightcrawler, Juggie, spidey, CWBP, etc. are near worthless outside of AW defense but it's now no longer worth half the alliance having one. This is especially for those players who don't have a ton of resources to begin with. I know you guys don't want to toss rank downs like candy but it seems that with such a big shift in how you want an entire section of the game to operate you'd at least consider it.
Alliance A scores as follows:
Boss Kills- 60,000
Exploration-51,300 (100%)
Defender Rating-3,000 (if everboby places all r4s)
Defender Diversity- 18,750 (if there are 150 different champs placed)
Attack Kills- 0
Total Score- 133,050
Alliance B scores as follows:
Boss Kills- 60,000
Exploration- 51,300
Defender Rating- 0
Defender Diversity- 0
Attack Kills- 22,500
Total Score- 133,800
In this scenario, alliance B wins even if they use all 15 items.
Let's try this one. Let's remove all the defenders from both sides. That would leave both sides with 111,300 points and they would tie. Now I begin placing unique defenders in Alliance A. For each unique defender A gets an additional 175 points plus a few more depending on rating (about 10-30 points in general). Alliance B can get no more than an additional 150 points for killing that defender, which is a net point gain for A no matter what happens during the war.
Now suppose I've placed some number of unique defenders, say a hundred, and I don't have any more unique defenders. If I place a non-unique defender on the map and it gets killed I've given a net of between 70 and 90 points to the enemy. If I think the enemy is going to kill it, it is actually better to not place that defender at all. Non-unique defenders actually cost the defense points overall if they are killed. I'm better off not taking the chance for all but the strongest defenders, and maybe not even those.
These numbers suggest a very weird meta: it is better to leave nodes completely empty and not even place a defender unless a) the defender is unique or b) you believe your opponents will fail to kill that defender no matter what they do. And if both sides kill everything then the side with the most unique defenders always wins, assuming no side places non-unique defenders. If one side places non-unique defenders, they are actually costing themselves points and can lose to an opponent that places less defenders but all of them unique.
In fact, the disadvantage of placing a non-unique defender that gets killed is huge: the penalty for placing a non-unique defender that dies is about twice as high as the bonus for placing a unique defender that dies.
The diversity score plus the elimination of the kill score doesn't only encourage diversity. It actually encourages diversity so strongly that it also encourages not placing defenders at all unless they are unique. I have trouble seeing how this isn't tactically broken.
@Kabam Miike please let us know how many points will we score/kill in attack, whether exploring tiles that have non nodes grants any point, how many points per tile or node explored, and how many points/defender variety. We really need this information BEFORE the war
Points Breakdown:
Node Exploration: 300 per Node (equals out to before, when it was 450)
Boss Kill: 20 000 Points
Defenders Placed: 50 per Defender Placed
Defender Diversity: 125 per Unique Defender
Defender Rating: 0.002 per PI
Attacker Kills: 150 per Kill
I posted something regarding this and then when I went to edit a small typo it went into auto-mod land. But I did want to get it out there that these numbers create a very perverse problem. They don't just encourage diversity. They perversely penalize non-uniqueness so high that it is actually often better to place *nothing* than a non-unique defender.
Consider: a unique defender that is killed gains you 175 points for placement plus about 10-30 points for rating. Your opponent can gain no more than 150 points for killing it. That means that defender will always gain you points over your opponent no matter what he does. But a non-unique defender that is killed *costs* you points: you get about 60-80 for placing him and then lose 150 for it dying: you lose a net 70-90 points for placing that defender at all.
But if you simply choose to not place that defender at all, then you get nothing and your opponent gets nothing because they can't kill what isn't there. So if you think your opponent is going to kill your defender and it is not unique, it is actually better to not place it at all. If you place nothing but unique defenders and your opponent places fewer unique defenders, then as long as you kill as many as they do you are guaranteed to win. Placing non-unique defenders is only handing your opponent more ways to score points, unless you believe those defenders are unbeatable (to your current opponent).
It seems broken to actually encourage alliances to leave defense nodes empty than risk placing non-unique defenders on those nodes that will only cost you points, but that's what the points system seems to be telling me.
Hopefully this means that you won't be running into an entire path of Nightcrawlers, or 5 Magiks as often!
Miike,
Playing devils advocate as I know you've already stated parameters for rank down tickets but, does this not qualify for rank down tickets since you've essentially devalued the purpose of ranking certain champs? Champs like Nightcrawler, Juggie, spidey, CWBP, etc. are near worthless outside of AW defense but it's now no longer worth half the alliance having one. This is especially for those players who don't have a ton of resources to begin with. I know you guys don't want to toss rank downs like candy but it seems that with such a big shift in how you want an entire section of the game to operate you'd at least consider it.
Bring back rank down tickets! All we have are Magiks, Nightcrawlers, Juggernauts, and Spideys. Help us DIVERSIFY our AWD!!! This is a huge change to the contest. Help us!!!
@Kabam Miike please let us know how many points will we score/kill in attack, whether exploring tiles that have non nodes grants any point, how many points per tile or node explored, and how many points/defender variety. We really need this information BEFORE the war
Points Breakdown:
Node Exploration: 300 per Node (equals out to before, when it was 450)
Boss Kill: 20 000 Points
Defenders Placed: 50 per Defender Placed
Defender Diversity: 125 per Unique Defender
Defender Rating: 0.002 per PI
Attacker Kills: 150 per Kill
I posted something regarding this and then when I went to edit a small typo it went into auto-mod land. But I did want to get it out there that these numbers create a very perverse problem. They don't just encourage diversity. They perversely penalize non-uniqueness so high that it is actually often better to place *nothing* than a non-unique defender.
Consider: a unique defender that is killed gains you 175 points for placement plus about 10-30 points for rating. Your opponent can gain no more than 150 points for killing it. That means that defender will always gain you points over your opponent no matter what he does. But a non-unique defender that is killed *costs* you points: you get about 60-80 for placing him and then lose 150 for it dying: you lose a net 70-90 points for placing that defender at all.
But if you simply choose to not place that defender at all, then you get nothing and your opponent gets nothing because they can't kill what isn't there. So if you think your opponent is going to kill your defender and it is not unique, it is actually better to not place it at all. If you place nothing but unique defenders and your opponent places fewer unique defenders, then as long as you kill as many as they do you are guaranteed to win. Placing non-unique defenders is only handing your opponent more ways to score points, unless you believe those defenders are unbeatable (to your current opponent).
It seems broken to actually encourage alliances to leave defense nodes empty than risk placing non-unique defenders on those nodes that will only cost you points, but that's what the points system seems to be telling me.
I'm sure this will get changed soon. By not placing defenders, you are giving your opponents a free pass to the next node with no risk of losing health. Once alliances start playing this way, and only placing 2-3 defenders per member, sales of items will go down. That negates their whole reason for not counting defender kills, and is just another overlooked aspect like the detect masteries. The main difference with this is it will cost kabam money, so they will make a quick fix just like they did when we were doing 2* wars.
AW used to be such a fun game mode, a few adjustments and it could have been even better. I will give it a chance, but being a numbers guy i think it will work out bad for players on this.
This revamp, as well as the 6* announcements, and the removal of t4b fragments from map 5 awards, they all show that the team is disconnected from their most passionate players. I cant believe that any of this was received well by any high level beta testers.
Its very sad because this community is great, the players care about the game and want to make it better. You have a huge number of players with very good ideas and valuable opinions, and none of them feel like you guys listen to them.
Every champion is worth points, but placing multiple of them will not get you multiple points.
Say you get 100 points for Each Champion, you placed 2 Magik, 2 Spiderman, and 1 Hyperion. You'll get points for 3 unique Champions.
Now, say you placed 1 Magik, 1 Spiderman (Stark Enhanced), 1 Spiderman (Symbiote), 1 Storm, and 1 Hyperion, you'll get points for 5 unique Champions.
But this doesn't only affect one player... It's across every player in every Battlegroup. That means that if your Alliance decides that every member will place an 1 Ultron, 1 Luke Cage, 1 Nightcrawler, 1 Guillotine, and 1 Civil Warrior, you only get Diversity points for 5 Champions. Because there aren't 150 unique Champions in the game, you won't be able to get diversity points for every Champion, but you can still get quite a bit by varying it up.
Hopefully this means that you won't be running into an entire path of Nightcrawlers, or 5 Magiks as often!
How can be possible that an alliance have points for 108 "unique" champs if in the game actually are released only 106 champs?
Please explain me this
I have another question, a guy that i know took paper to write down all champs placed in defense, and in the total of all 3 battlegroups he had 46 unique champs, but at the end of the war he got points for 86
he double-checked trying to count unique champs placed only for single group (example, he had only one magik in bg1 and only one magik in bg2 and he counted them as 2 uniques champs) and doing this math the total was exactly 86 like the result of war was saying
Clarification on this?
Thanks
Every champion is worth points, but placing multiple of them will not get you multiple points.
Say you get 100 points for Each Champion, you placed 2 Magik, 2 Spiderman, and 1 Hyperion. You'll get points for 3 unique Champions.
Now, say you placed 1 Magik, 1 Spiderman (Stark Enhanced), 1 Spiderman (Symbiote), 1 Storm, and 1 Hyperion, you'll get points for 5 unique Champions.
But this doesn't only affect one player... It's across every player in every Battlegroup. That means that if your Alliance decides that every member will place an 1 Ultron, 1 Luke Cage, 1 Nightcrawler, 1 Guillotine, and 1 Civil Warrior, you only get Diversity points for 5 Champions. Because there aren't 150 unique Champions in the game, you won't be able to get diversity points for every Champion, but you can still get quite a bit by varying it up.
Hopefully this means that you won't be running into an entire path of Nightcrawlers, or 5 Magiks as often!
Does this work across star levels? If my battle group places a 4* Spidey and a 5* spidey--do we get 100 or 200 points?
You can only get points per champion not star rank
We just got defeated by the 3rd place globally. Why did we loose? Because they have "exclusive champions"... ur whole system is broken we cant defeat them and we doesnt even have a chance to do it.
Tell me how to get a Thanos, Kang, OG Vision and OG Deadpool????
None of the alliances "burn out" boosts or revives, thats good for us but really really bad for u guys.
We just got defeated by the 3rd place globally. Why did we loose? Because they have "exclusive champions"... ur whole system is broken we cant defeat them and we doesnt even have a chance to do it.
Tell me how to get a Thanos, Kang, OG Vision and OG Deadpool????
None of the alliances "burn out" boosts or revives, thats good for us but really really bad for u guys.
How can you even get more than 106 diverse champs ? I thought that was the current max number.
OG Vision you can buy on the next sale. The others, not so much. Either way the counter is clearly **** up
This brings up a good point, since the counter is obviously not working correctly, it could be possible some alliances were cheated of a win by this glitch. If it is counting diverse champs per bg, and not per alliance, there could be a swing in points that would be the difference in a win or loss decided by diversity.
Comments
@Kabam Miike can you please answer this please. Looks like this is gonna be the new way of wars, more spending and placing of trash champs.. Great idea kabam, really great idea.
It also means that those of us that ranked up, invested sig stones to build strong AW defense just wasted all those resources.
I think not. It really depends on which tier you are. At lower tiers, those OP AW defense champs remains OP.
I am taking Juggs to rank 5 when I get the 3 T4CCs, unless I pull someone better for AW defense.
Miike,
Playing devils advocate as I know you've already stated parameters for rank down tickets but, does this not qualify for rank down tickets since you've essentially devalued the purpose of ranking certain champs? Champs like Nightcrawler, Juggie, spidey, CWBP, etc. are near worthless outside of AW defense but it's now no longer worth half the alliance having one. This is especially for those players who don't have a ton of resources to begin with. I know you guys don't want to toss rank downs like candy but it seems that with such a big shift in how you want an entire section of the game to operate you'd at least consider it.
Let's try this one. Let's remove all the defenders from both sides. That would leave both sides with 111,300 points and they would tie. Now I begin placing unique defenders in Alliance A. For each unique defender A gets an additional 175 points plus a few more depending on rating (about 10-30 points in general). Alliance B can get no more than an additional 150 points for killing that defender, which is a net point gain for A no matter what happens during the war.
Now suppose I've placed some number of unique defenders, say a hundred, and I don't have any more unique defenders. If I place a non-unique defender on the map and it gets killed I've given a net of between 70 and 90 points to the enemy. If I think the enemy is going to kill it, it is actually better to not place that defender at all. Non-unique defenders actually cost the defense points overall if they are killed. I'm better off not taking the chance for all but the strongest defenders, and maybe not even those.
These numbers suggest a very weird meta: it is better to leave nodes completely empty and not even place a defender unless a) the defender is unique or b) you believe your opponents will fail to kill that defender no matter what they do. And if both sides kill everything then the side with the most unique defenders always wins, assuming no side places non-unique defenders. If one side places non-unique defenders, they are actually costing themselves points and can lose to an opponent that places less defenders but all of them unique.
In fact, the disadvantage of placing a non-unique defender that gets killed is huge: the penalty for placing a non-unique defender that dies is about twice as high as the bonus for placing a unique defender that dies.
The diversity score plus the elimination of the kill score doesn't only encourage diversity. It actually encourages diversity so strongly that it also encourages not placing defenders at all unless they are unique. I have trouble seeing how this isn't tactically broken.
I posted something regarding this and then when I went to edit a small typo it went into auto-mod land. But I did want to get it out there that these numbers create a very perverse problem. They don't just encourage diversity. They perversely penalize non-uniqueness so high that it is actually often better to place *nothing* than a non-unique defender.
Consider: a unique defender that is killed gains you 175 points for placement plus about 10-30 points for rating. Your opponent can gain no more than 150 points for killing it. That means that defender will always gain you points over your opponent no matter what he does. But a non-unique defender that is killed *costs* you points: you get about 60-80 for placing him and then lose 150 for it dying: you lose a net 70-90 points for placing that defender at all.
But if you simply choose to not place that defender at all, then you get nothing and your opponent gets nothing because they can't kill what isn't there. So if you think your opponent is going to kill your defender and it is not unique, it is actually better to not place it at all. If you place nothing but unique defenders and your opponent places fewer unique defenders, then as long as you kill as many as they do you are guaranteed to win. Placing non-unique defenders is only handing your opponent more ways to score points, unless you believe those defenders are unbeatable (to your current opponent).
It seems broken to actually encourage alliances to leave defense nodes empty than risk placing non-unique defenders on those nodes that will only cost you points, but that's what the points system seems to be telling me.
Bring back rank down tickets! All we have are Magiks, Nightcrawlers, Juggernauts, and Spideys. Help us DIVERSIFY our AWD!!! This is a huge change to the contest. Help us!!!
I'm sure this will get changed soon. By not placing defenders, you are giving your opponents a free pass to the next node with no risk of losing health. Once alliances start playing this way, and only placing 2-3 defenders per member, sales of items will go down. That negates their whole reason for not counting defender kills, and is just another overlooked aspect like the detect masteries. The main difference with this is it will cost kabam money, so they will make a quick fix just like they did when we were doing 2* wars.
This revamp, as well as the 6* announcements, and the removal of t4b fragments from map 5 awards, they all show that the team is disconnected from their most passionate players. I cant believe that any of this was received well by any high level beta testers.
Its very sad because this community is great, the players care about the game and want to make it better. You have a huge number of players with very good ideas and valuable opinions, and none of them feel like you guys listen to them.
I thought that was a myth...
You must have MD... ha!
How can be possible that an alliance have points for 108 "unique" champs if in the game actually are released only 106 champs?
Please explain me this
he double-checked trying to count unique champs placed only for single group (example, he had only one magik in bg1 and only one magik in bg2 and he counted them as 2 uniques champs) and doing this math the total was exactly 86 like the result of war was saying
Clarification on this?
Thanks
You can only get points per champion not star rank
4* and 5* are both hulk
Tell me how to get a Thanos, Kang, OG Vision and OG Deadpool????
None of the alliances "burn out" boosts or revives, thats good for us but really really bad for u guys.
How can you even get more than 106 diverse champs ? I thought that was the current max number.
we are wondering the same, we dont even know how that actually works, we have some theories but nobody know how the system works...
This brings up a good point, since the counter is obviously not working correctly, it could be possible some alliances were cheated of a win by this glitch. If it is counting diverse champs per bg, and not per alliance, there could be a swing in points that would be the difference in a win or loss decided by diversity.