This fight is easily my favourite in mcoc. the only issue I have with it is that you have to go through a path of annoying champions to get to him, and, for someone who has already beaten him, he would be a really fun champion to play against without rewards or energy usage, just for fun! what's great about the fight is that it manages to be difficult (especially with those reversed controls) but without limiting your options, often fights prevent you activating buffs or debuffs. maybe making you need certain immunities or power control but these features don't actually make a fight harder unless you don't have the counter. there are some really fun champions who aren't really usable in the current meta with is currently a bit of a rock paper scissors scenario, but by making a boss beatable with every champion, you make it way more fun. I also find that the best way to add in difficulty in a fight is not by limiting the players decisions but by widening them, like instead of no retreat where dash backs are removed, literally removing a whole aspect to the fight. in the grandmaster fight, new mechanics are brought into play that forced you to idle, whiff, hit into block ect. those features even had some failsafes in them so that one mistake wouldn't end the fight, you had to stuff up 5 times, this is also great because often one mistake at high level, m even letting the opponent hit your block can kill you and no one finds that an acceptable way to die really. If a player misses 2 challenges on grandmaster and then tanks an sp1, they don't feel like they were cheated out of a fight. because generally in a fight, blows should be exchanged, go back and forth, but constantly dodging and intercepting (whilst skillful) don't really make it a fight. I also dislike when a fight removes parrying or blocking and heavy baiting as they are both interesting gameplay mechanics and I would much prefer if a fight limited the amount of times it could be done instead of removing it altogether even if it is a boss fight. the only issue for me was that you needed a champion with DOT effects but most champions could so minimal annoyance.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? - I actually liked the whole fight with the grandmaster.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? - nothing corresponding to the fight, but leading up to it, there was one. I hated that Killmonger in the path I picked. cost me more revives than the grandmaster.
What would you change in the fight? - none.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? - I like the same concept as this grandmaster fight and the unnamed thanos. (the phases and the like)
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? - loved the feeling. but the rng of the crystal and shard rewards i got sucked all the happy feelings out. you guys should probably do something about that. i suggest giving us an option to pick various 5/6 star crystals (some modified) to get as rewards for end game content. the modified crystals i'd like to see would be basic, nexus and featured crystals assuring dupes on unawakened champs in our roster and another assuring new champs that are not in our roster.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? - i only did 1 path, but I don't see anything disturbing about the links to the grandmaster. It's the links within the paths leading to the grandmaster I worry about.
I think this video pretty much sums up to pros and cons of the GM fight. Some very good and valid points here.
- The fact you can bring any champ to complete this fight - Player skill based. - Attack values arent over powered so, if you dont fight "perfectly" you arent being punished for mistakes and instantly KO. (unlike most of act 6) - Making the fight skill based, but not too ridiculous like 6.2.6 Boss fight with the dex on mid-special attacks, which if you mess up is basically a KO (previous point about OP attack values) - The call outs was pretty fun, but some were far too difficult though. But being rewarded with tokens / additional buffs/ player attack increase/ defender weaknesses based upon player success within the fight was cool. - Having a less time consuming, manageable, more direct path to the GM to allow us to practice on this content, to then advance on the more difficult paths. - The build up to that fight has defenders with more attack than the boss! Some of the paths throughout act 6 are just excessively OP and make the content less enjoyable - Not a fan of the gating system, or the niche champ requirements to complete some of act 6. I understand making some content difficult, but making it so that only 1 or 2 champs are viable solutions is a massive restriction in the game. Give us several options to complete the more difficult paths, bringing in other champs outside of the "God Tier" options to use. 170 odd champ in this game, everyone uses the same handful for most the content. - After finishing a completion run of act 6, i was happy, felt a sense of achievement for defeating GM. Was a good buzz, but that buzz was very short lived when opening the rewards. The rewards for completion should be able to help us strengthen our rosters to then proceed with 100%.... Not give me 3 useless champs from a nexus crystal that i dont even want to waste resources to r2 them for arena fodder! - Overall happy and enjoyed the GM fight, more of the same/ similar please. Less of the 6.2.6 Champion (referring to my 3rd point) and 6.4.3 Darkhawk, that fight is just so horrible and so unit/ revive heavy its just unfair to players!
Really enjoyed the Grandmaster fight. I liked that I could use many different champs and that it wasnt game over instantly if I made a mistake. Liked that there was a good amount of skill involved and less reliant on the AI doing the right thing. After winning 100% though I was very unlucky with my 6* and now have 2x tier 5CC and no one worth ranking up. Open 2 more 6* since and still no good. Bit stuck in the game now spinning 6* and hoping.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? The Grandmaster's attack value was low enough to survive a mistake and the mistakes I felt were actually mine and not stupid interactions from multiple bs nodes on nodes on nodes.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Inverted controls is somewhat annoying and I can't get a Mr. Sinister to save my life. He ticks all the boxes for that fight and I love using him, but it's all but impossible to efficiently target a champ you want, even if they're old and unpopular. Sometimes the callouts/bans would be bugged and a good run would be wasted because I'd get blunders out of nowhere and die.
What would you change in the fight? In the fight I'd like the initial phase ban system taken out, it's just so brief, it's not interesting or fun. I'd expand the request system so that it changes what he does too.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? Direct paths to fights. Interesting interactions with the champs you bring in. I understand not every fight can be this grand, but the philosophy of it is sound. It reminds me of the fun Deadpool fights, I can't remember the event name, but you know the one.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Pretty pleased with myself until I opened the crystals and got 3 stars, 5 star trash and more trash and almost all of the rankup items sit waiting for me to get champs I want to use them on.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? Long paths with silly high attack and more nodes on nodes were pretty much as terrible as everyone keeps telling you they always are. The node links to change the fight and a regular gatekeeper Sentinel were very good. If it was Mini-boss, Sentinel, Grandmaster it would have been a much better experience instead of a slog through too many not fun fights to get to the fun part.
the grandmaster fight was a unique new fight challenging booth your skill and your focus it was endeed one of the funniest fight in the contest if not the best. it's a hard fight that rewards you for playing good and testing your skill if u are good enough you will survive if not you'll struggle with a 10mil hit points .. good job with that one
I’m reaching out on behalf of the Grandmaster in regards to his challenge in Act 6. If you’re a Summoner that has completed Act 6 and has some time, we would really appreciate your feedback on this fight!
We’d like to leave this open-ended and gather raw feedback on every aspect of the fight. However, if you’re not sure where to start, these questions might help out!
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
What would you change in the fight?
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
Thank you for taking the time to give us your thoughts and feedback!
1. I most enjoyed being rewarded for good game play BIG YELLOW NUMBERS with almost any champion 2. The most frustrating part of the fight was the reversed controls always matching up exactly with a special attack and with the last prompt before getting to the wounded state. I think it would have been a better fight if you could at least get to one wounded phase before the reversed controls, even if they lasted longer once they came up. 3. I would add a direct line. This could be a gated path and you receive the key after your first completion. This would allow us to practice this extremely fun fight, try out new champions, etc without having to do a whole path. 4. I really enjoy that it requires skill to do the fight, the attack values aren't so punishing that you can't even afford to take a block, and that you're rewarded with playing well increased attack, crit, crit damage. 5. I felt good and wanted to go do the fight again. Just wish I didn't have to waste time, energy or items to get to him. 6. The link nodes were ok. In my opinion I think it would have been better to give added benefit to go with those added links. Like for instance if the easy path had no links but then a particular class would have gotten a benefit on every other path, you'd have incentive to use a different champion each time. This would further show that the fight could be done by anyone.
Overall I think this is one of the best designed fights in the game. I hope you can make more like it, make some improvements, and please, please, please add that additional path so that we can just go straight to this fight!
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? Honestly everything. This was perfect design. I can bring any champ, the fight is based on MY skill, low enough attack that I could take a combo with a rank 5 5* and not die, rewards you for playing well with big damage. Best fight in MCOC. Sadly, I'll never do it again because the rest of act 6 is so badly designed.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Reversed controls were sort of annoying but I'm good with it, still the best fight in MCOC.
What would you change in the fight? Every other fight in Act 6. I'm FTP and very stingy with my units. The rest of act 6 is just horrible. I tried hundreds of paths and fights with no boosts, itemless, it was darn near impossible. After hundreds of tries itemless, I just saved up 5k units, max boosted, and used Unitman the entire way. I couldn't even tell you what paths I took or who I used for the bosses because it was so long ago, I hated it, and I've never gone back. I'm sure you have the data. I would guess 85-95% of the player base will never do act 6 exploration. Not because they don't have the champs or the skill, they just don't want to do content that is designed for 8* champions. I have 30 rank 5 5* or equivalent in 6* and I will never do act 6 exploration. Attack is WAY too high, nodes are WAY too overpowered, champ requirements are WAY too specific, it's just awful game design. I'm already at the point of considering just quitting because there's nothing for me to do. I'm not going to waste units on horrible game design so the game is pretty much over for me at this point. And that's really sad.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? Just fights based on skill and not horrible nodes. If there are 150 champs in the game (i don't even know if this is true) then at the VERY LEAST 10% or 15 champs should be viable for every fight in act 4/5/6/7/8. If 15+ champs aren't viable for a fight, the fight shouldn't be in the game. In 6.2.5 you have on the horribly designed gated cosmic path, a bleed node and an incinerate node. The only options for the Bleed node that are Cosmic are Groot, King Groot, and Corvus. Groot and KG suck, so you have Corvus as the one and only counter. On the Incinerate node, the only Cosmic counters are Annihilus and Silver Surfer. NEITHER of those champs existed when act 6 came out so you designed a node with zero counters. I'm fine with hard fights but come on now, give us a chance.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Excited to finally be done with Act 6. And like I stated, sadly, I'll never go back and get to do that fight again. Then got the rewards and pulled nothing good so then felt depleted and sad.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? I only did one path, I honestly don't even remember the linked node. I chose a path that looked the easiest for my skill/champs and just went.
Act 6 100% for me. Really appreciate this post to ask for our feedback. 👍
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? I really liked the fact that ANY champion could be use. Sure there are better ones but you were nearly as limited to who you brought.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? The timing of that reversed controls activating the first time when going into attempting that 5th challenge. For me, it just felt like it too often came at an awkward timing and had issues being able to switch my mind to do reverse and then keep in that rythym
What would you change in the fight? Not sure... Maybe have some type of transition window like there is between fight phases for the reversed controls?
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? That they not be so specific to certain main OP/God Tier champs in the game. Our full rosters should have a valid shot at taking them down
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Pretty satisifying. Rewards were decent and the fight mechanics/challenges were fun and new
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? I didn't really noticed much with the linked nodes being there. It would be nice that after 100%, there was an option/path that opened up to go directly to the Grand Master so we can have more fun against that fight. It's a one of a kind and would like more access to it. Since I'm 100% on Act6, can't we have direct access w/o having to go thru an entire path?
@McCloud33 This is an amazing Idea! This should be implemented for every future Act boss.
"I would add a direct line. This could be a gated path and you receive the key after your first completion. This would allow us to practice this extremely fun fight, try out new champions, etc without having to do a whole path."
I've finished Act 6 100%. I really enjoyed the Grandmaster fight. I'm not sure there's anything I can add here that hasn't already been posted a number of times.
In the interest of feedback, I hope Kabam puts up a similar thread with the same questions for the Abyss Collector fight. While getting to the root of what people like is important, I feel it's equally important to understand what aspects of a fight players don't like.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? Evading special L1 What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Inverted controls What would you change in the fight? Life of grandmaster What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? Similar ways to fight vs bosses. Doable. After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Great!!! How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? Only has done one path so can not share experience. Game requiere lot of time for act 6 and have a personal life.
The WHY this fight is great is because it isn’t cash grabby and doesn’t require a specific counter. If that’s what you’re looking for then look no further
People love this fight because it was nothing like the rest of chapter 6. Acid wash mysterio, thunderstruck king groot, darkhawk, domino on any node, 6.2 taking forever. etc all were fights that seem like they were designed to frustrate players rather than provide them entertainment.
Do 90% less dmg bc of x,y,z is probably the thing everyone wouldn’t miss if it was removed from game files by the way
Thank you all for the overwhelming response so far, I want to address something I see going on here...
The goal of this thread is not to put a spotlight on something we know you all love and pat ourselves on the back, I'm using this to measure WHY you loved it, and how we as a team can do more of it.
Other game issues will be addressed separately, this thread is not trying to take anything away from those issues but It's important to understand not every piece of content is created by the same designer or team of designers. We hear you and are working to improve your experience in all avenues of the game!
As the designer of the Grandmaster fight, my goal in this thread specifically is to capture the most loved and hated aspects of the fight and use these to help establish best practices that the WHOLE team can use in future boss fights and questing content.
Thank you all for the feedback so far and remember, we're making a videogame for entertainment purposes and we want you guys to love it!
I'll post my feedback shortly, but I hope Kabam gave you a nice raise or an extra week of vacation because this fight was one of the more enjoyable experiences in the game period. Awesome job, thanks, and I hope Kabam takes your input on game design in VERY high regards if the GM fight is where your head's at.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? The fight was a puzzle challenge that didn't rely of janky game mechanics (*cough The Champion cough*), and you had the chance to mess up while figuring it out without instantly dying to 1 combo because of the standard insane attack values. YOU CAN GET THROUGH THE FIGHT WITH ANY CHAMP IN THE GAME!!! None of this garbage where a small handfull of champs are viable and every other 140+ champs in the game end in a sickening Unit and Resource spend.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Some of the prompts didn't seem to properly register the actions I was doing to remove them in sequence, so I was penalized while dexing, holding block, or using a light attack at the same time, when I understood once you clear one prompt challenge you were clear to use that mechanic until the next prompt. Maybe a bug during my run?
What would you change in the fight? Specials that are unavoidable to parry or evade in the game is garbage and always has been. The GM's SP2 is a perfect example of that and should be changed so you can practice to evade it all (as should be the same for all specials).
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? Fights that don't feel so punishing that you think the only way to complete it is with a few select champs, a deep wallet, or stacked stash of resources. Boss fights should be hard, but during the course of the fight you should be rewarded for being a skilled player and also not die the instant you make 1 mistake (back to insane attach damage...)
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? I felt great.. It reminded me of when i was a kid and finally beat Mike Tyson in Punchout on the NES. The fight was brutally hard and took weeks to pass, but over that time I was able to practice on him again and again easily and was rewarded by my skill, not some magic item or new character I got my RNG. Most of the bosses in the game when I finish I drop the phone with a "FINALLY.... MAN" yell, and take a walk around the house to calm my nerves and usually anger. The GM fight when I beat him, I was pumped, excited and elated because it was stressful, hard, but most importantly FUN and REWARDING!
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? I've only finished 1 path so far so can't comment on the remaining linked nodes.
Keep the game going in the direction of this Boss fight, and roads leading up to it similar to the last Variant which was another all around FUN and REWARDING piece of content. This game can be hard and challenging without making us feel like we have to grind arena or buy units to have a 1 in 150+ chance on pulling the right champ at the right time with the right random resources to feasibly complete content. I started out playing this game pretty much when it came out, and kept playing because I was having fun, but now it's honestly just a bad addiction I keep going back to by habbit which I don't always enjoy but feel like I need to keep grinding away at every piece of subpar content just to be able to keep up with all the new "FUN AND INTERACTIVE" unavoidable damage node combinations. Let's get this back to a FUN game. If you scrapped the monthly EQ and just rolled out Variant level content similarly creative to the last Variant it would be perfect.
For me it was one of the most frustrating fights in the game, all fights are the basis of many units, see the fight against the sinister lord, there you go, fights against champion of the universe and grandmaster, where only your units are not enough, this takes the people to turn to friends and sometimes people who charge for this service, people can even comment, but I'm talking about the reality
1)I enjoyed the entire fight its too good except first phase 2)The most frustrating is the first phase where i cant get more intercepts with only one shot 3)Nothing I managed with sinister in inverse controls 4)SAME AS THIS FIGHT 5)I want to see in future fights New exciting and enjoyable nodes and these phases and wounding i loved the most and all champions can have a sniff on that boss(NOT A ONE MAN SHOW) 6)I felt a burden has been removed and juicy rewards got the most favourite CORVUS SANITY 7) I read the nodes they are bit tricky and one champion based This is not good for game progress SAME AS ACT 6 (VERY VERY TOUGH AND BIG ATTACK)
Actually you should ask feedback on ACT6 not on EVERYONE BOY GRANDMASTER FIGHT QUAKE + GHOST = ACT 6 OVER
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? - challenges in the fight that was designed to ramp up attack bonus What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? - the grandmaster AI changes from phase to phase. Baiting special 1 became more inconsistent What would you change in the fight? - phase 3 reverse controls timer...because it was a long timer it was hard to time the transition (add number countdown similiar to Aegon combo shield cooldown What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? -Fights designed to reward skill and allow any champ to be used rather than having to bring specific niche counter (ie vs the champion) After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? -ready to retire How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? -each had their own give and take which was interesting.
1. Most part of the Grandmaster fight was fun I won't lie. 2. The way the interaction was designed and the thought process behind it was exceptional. 3. The concept of fulfilling objectives from the Grandmaster and then getting heavily rewarded for it was the BEST part. 4. I had no issues about the unblockable L1. Didn't feel it was tough to evade. 5. The concept of gaining tokens was amazing and getting rewarded for good skill in balance shown was really good. 6. Tbh, everything went well until that inverted controls thing which is always problematic. 7. But because the Grandmaster's base attack was lower it wasn't like you get instant KO 8. The fight in all other than that inverted controls stuff had no Loop hole and was very very perfectly designed. GREAT JOB. 9. Some paths and defenders on it felt too much 10. Like the Lifecycle path with defenders with high base attack on it was really problematic. Having taken that myself on my 1st run. Oh man that KM cost me a lot. 11. Overall leaving some paths behind it was good. But again the most loved thing in the whole 6.4 was only the Grandmaster fight and the concept of it rewarding players for doing a right thing by showing skills and not just having a particular champ! 12. Please note when you make future content please don't raise the base attack so high that it becomes unbearable. Just keep some space for showing skills!.. Thanks! @""Kabam Miike"
Disclaimer : my experience against the grandmaster is heavily influenced by attempting it at a time when the game has an exceedingly high number of ongoing bugs and inconsistent behaviour.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
None. It was extremely frustrating. Not as horrible as the champion, but the immense health pool more than made up for the slightly less frustrating mechanics.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Extremely skill intensive, too many revives wasted without making the slightest dent in the overall health pool. If you intended this fight to be only for the most skilled among your player base it was a success. But as an average player I had an extremely bad time, and I never want to do that fight again.
What would you change in the fight?
- decrease the health pool dramatically, as it is now it's too much in the spirit of "play perfectly or go home". Allow those who do not play perfectly to have some sense they're progressing through the fight. - add an extra path directly to the grandmaster fight. At least it would allow us to practice without wasting time and revives to get through the horrible fights leading up to the boss. I imagine the fight can be enjoyable once you learn it, but if you have to pay several revives and more than half an hour of time just to get to the fight, once you're there you feel pressured to finish it. You do not have the luxury of quitting, and without repeated tries it's difficult to build up the experience needed to actually enjoy the fight. - the fight has way too many things you need to be aware of. Either reduce the number of things we need to keep track of or make them more predictable (for example instead of random challenges make them rotating in a pre-determined order). - remove the unblockable aspect of the first hit of the SP1. Or make it easier to react to it. The AI is way too erratic and throws that sp1 without any warning, unless you are lucky enough to predict the AI will actually throw the sp1 and not dash at you, it will connect and most likely kill you. - go easier on the "intercept like a pro or go home" mechanic, we are not all intercept gods - fix all the other bugs that made this fight so much more difficult than it needed to be. 30% of the fights ended before they started because the game just refused to register dash backs at the start of the fight. And a significant number of additional deaths was caused by the fact that immediately following a special attack the game refuses to accept inputs and you and up just staying there motionless getting combo'd into oblivion
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
If by future boss fights you mean things like the champion and grandmaster (or that stupid thanos fight from a while back) - I for one do not want to see any more boss fights. But if you insist on adding them, at the very least add one path that leads directly to the boss so we can actually practice without wasting resources.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
Frustrated and empty. With a hint of disgust because I know I will eventually go back in and complete the rest of the lanes.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
I only played one path but I did not feel it had any impact on the gameplay.
Ok... let's try this again. Apparently this forum does not allow you to edit your post to correct a typo, instead of saving the change it deletes the post
Disclaimer : my experience with the grandmaster fight was heavily influenced by the high number of existing bugs in the game and the current inconsistent behaviour I experience in fights (inputs not registering at the beginning of the fight and immediately after special attacks, extremely erratic AI behaviour)
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? None. It was black hole for revives and felt very frustrating. I did not enjoy it at all. As a player of average skill I simply found this fight too much. It is not as bad as the champion fight, but even if it has somewhat more manageable mechanics, it more than makes up for it due to the overwhelming health pool.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Extremely skill intensive. The general feeling that you have to "play perfectly or get out". If you want to make content only for the most skilled in your player base it's perfectly fine, but be aware that in doing this you may end up losing your less skilled players.
What would you change in the fight? - reduce emphasis on intercept - get rid of the unblockable part of the sp1 - reduce health pool - reduce number of things we have to keep track of, it's just too much - reduce the randomness of the challenges, use a pre-defined order for them - add a lane leading directly to the boss. It would at least allow us to experience the fight without wasting half an hour and several revives just to get through the horrors leading up to the boss.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? If by "boss fights" means things like grandmaster, champion or that thanos from a while back - I do not want to see any more boss fights. Or at the very least make it so we can engage the boss without wasting time and resources on the fights leading to it.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Frustrated and empty. I never want to fight that thing ever again. But at the same time sad and angry because I just know I will go back in there to finish the remaining lanes.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? I only played one path but I did not feel it had any influence on the actual fight.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? -> The fact that you should jump into different modes which were 90% skill based. What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? -> It was very frustrating to see that Juggernaut was not inverted control immune, even though he typically is immune to it during normal fights. (is that maybe a bug?) What would you change in the fight? -> I wouldn't change the fight itself, but I would suggest having a dedicated path to the boss (this suggestion is the same from a very good german youtuber). In this case, this could be a path just for completion, without any other champs. The other 5 paths would be normal ones, with other champs to fight first. This way we can always train against the grandmaster. What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? ->Attack rating shouldn't be that high where just a couple of hits on block can kill your champion. (6.2.6 champion is a example, i actually like the style of the fight but the last 10% health pool was horrible since a couple of hits into our blocks would kills us and we wouldn't get 5 prowess buffs). After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? ->It felt not so great since I gave up on fighting again inverted controls and just pushed through with aegon's heavy attacks. However, the next 5 fights were great since I played with Colossus and they were more skill based. I felt proud of myself. How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? -> I almost didn't feel the difference. The only annoying one was a path where we only had 3 chances to make a mistakes otherwise we would get a level 3. That particular path was not nice.
For the most part, the fight was enjoyable (reverse controls is awful). The RNG aspect of the rewards is a real spirit killer. I have zero desire to go back in after getting shafted on the rewards.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? I really enjoyed that the fight was purely skill based. Meaning that if you didn't have champs X, Y or Unit-man, you would fail. I also enjoyed that I could make a mistake and have the ability to recover from it, but too many mistake and I would die. To me this is very balanced and is attributed to the GM not having ridiculous attack.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? This is my favorite fight in the game and still want to do that fight from time to time after I already have fully explored Act 6. I wouldn't go as far to say 'frustrating', but I really wish, once fully explored, I could just portal straight to the boss to bypass the paths on the way.
What would you change in the fight? My first attempt, it was difficult to know what the challenge was if you missed it. Since then, you've added that to the pause screen. Nothing else comes to mind.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? More skill based, less champion based. Mr. Sinister boss, for example, was not possible until I pulled the right champs and/or synergy team. However, GM was all about my ability to play the game with my favorite champs. Sure, some champs could do better than others, but it was balanced enough that any champ could do it.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? I was pumped! Not only because I cleared the content, but because it was such a challenging, yet rewarding fight. If I could portal straight to the GM, this would be my new testing ground (sorry ROL WS).
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? Some paths were better than others. A few nodes had a very "Do you have Ghost or Quake?" vibe, I don't have either, so it wasn't a great time. Regarding the links coming into the GM, they were not bad, in some cases not noticeable whether active or disabled, tbh.
Comments
So here's my take and experience of the fight
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
- I actually liked the whole fight with the grandmaster.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
- nothing corresponding to the fight, but leading up to it, there was one. I hated that Killmonger in the path I picked. cost me more revives than the grandmaster.
What would you change in the fight?
- none.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
- I like the same concept as this grandmaster fight and the unnamed thanos. (the phases and the like)
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
- loved the feeling. but the rng of the crystal and shard rewards i got sucked all the happy feelings out. you guys should probably do something about that. i suggest giving us an option to pick various 5/6 star crystals (some modified) to get as rewards for end game content. the modified crystals i'd like to see would be basic, nexus and featured crystals assuring dupes on unawakened champs in our roster and another assuring new champs that are not in our roster.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
- i only did 1 path, but I don't see anything disturbing about the links to the grandmaster. It's the links within the paths leading to the grandmaster I worry about.
I think this video pretty much sums up to pros and cons of the GM fight. Some very good and valid points here.
- The fact you can bring any champ to complete this fight - Player skill based.
- Attack values arent over powered so, if you dont fight "perfectly" you arent being punished for mistakes and instantly KO. (unlike most of act 6)
- Making the fight skill based, but not too ridiculous like 6.2.6 Boss fight with the dex on mid-special attacks, which if you mess up is basically a KO (previous point about OP attack values)
- The call outs was pretty fun, but some were far too difficult though. But being rewarded with tokens / additional buffs/ player attack increase/ defender weaknesses based upon player success within the fight was cool.
- Having a less time consuming, manageable, more direct path to the GM to allow us to practice on this content, to then advance on the more difficult paths.
- The build up to that fight has defenders with more attack than the boss! Some of the paths throughout act 6 are just excessively OP and make the content less enjoyable
- Not a fan of the gating system, or the niche champ requirements to complete some of act 6. I understand making some content difficult, but making it so that only 1 or 2 champs are viable solutions is a massive restriction in the game. Give us several options to complete the more difficult paths, bringing in other champs outside of the "God Tier" options to use. 170 odd champ in this game, everyone uses the same handful for most the content.
- After finishing a completion run of act 6, i was happy, felt a sense of achievement for defeating GM. Was a good buzz, but that buzz was very short lived when opening the rewards. The rewards for completion should be able to help us strengthen our rosters to then proceed with 100%.... Not give me 3 useless champs from a nexus crystal that i dont even want to waste resources to r2 them for arena fodder!
- Overall happy and enjoyed the GM fight, more of the same/ similar please. Less of the 6.2.6 Champion (referring to my 3rd point) and 6.4.3 Darkhawk, that fight is just so horrible and so unit/ revive heavy its just unfair to players!
The Grandmaster's attack value was low enough to survive a mistake and the mistakes I felt were actually mine and not stupid interactions from multiple bs nodes on nodes on nodes.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Inverted controls is somewhat annoying and I can't get a Mr. Sinister to save my life. He ticks all the boxes for that fight and I love using him, but it's all but impossible to efficiently target a champ you want, even if they're old and unpopular. Sometimes the callouts/bans would be bugged and a good run would be wasted because I'd get blunders out of nowhere and die.
What would you change in the fight? In the fight I'd like the initial phase ban system taken out, it's just so brief, it's not interesting or fun. I'd expand the request system so that it changes what he does too.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Direct paths to fights. Interesting interactions with the champs you bring in. I understand not every fight can be this grand, but the philosophy of it is sound. It reminds me of the fun Deadpool fights, I can't remember the event name, but you know the one.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Pretty pleased with myself until I opened the crystals and got 3 stars, 5 star trash and more trash and almost all of the rankup items sit waiting for me to get champs I want to use them on.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? Long paths with silly high attack and more nodes on nodes were pretty much as terrible as everyone keeps telling you they always are. The node links to change the fight and a regular gatekeeper Sentinel were very good. If it was Mini-boss, Sentinel, Grandmaster it would have been a much better experience instead of a slog through too many not fun fights to get to the fun part.
it's a hard fight that rewards you for playing good and testing your skill if u are good enough you will survive if not you'll struggle with a 10mil hit points ..
good job with that one
2. The most frustrating part of the fight was the reversed controls always matching up exactly with a special attack and with the last prompt before getting to the wounded state. I think it would have been a better fight if you could at least get to one wounded phase before the reversed controls, even if they lasted longer once they came up.
3. I would add a direct line. This could be a gated path and you receive the key after your first completion. This would allow us to practice this extremely fun fight, try out new champions, etc without having to do a whole path.
4. I really enjoy that it requires skill to do the fight, the attack values aren't so punishing that you can't even afford to take a block, and that you're rewarded with playing well increased attack, crit, crit damage.
5. I felt good and wanted to go do the fight again. Just wish I didn't have to waste time, energy or items to get to him.
6. The link nodes were ok. In my opinion I think it would have been better to give added benefit to go with those added links. Like for instance if the easy path had no links but then a particular class would have gotten a benefit on every other path, you'd have incentive to use a different champion each time. This would further show that the fight could be done by anyone.
Overall I think this is one of the best designed fights in the game. I hope you can make more like it, make some improvements, and please, please, please add that additional path so that we can just go straight to this fight!
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Reversed controls were sort of annoying but I'm good with it, still the best fight in MCOC.
What would you change in the fight? Every other fight in Act 6. I'm FTP and very stingy with my units. The rest of act 6 is just horrible. I tried hundreds of paths and fights with no boosts, itemless, it was darn near impossible. After hundreds of tries itemless, I just saved up 5k units, max boosted, and used Unitman the entire way. I couldn't even tell you what paths I took or who I used for the bosses because it was so long ago, I hated it, and I've never gone back. I'm sure you have the data. I would guess 85-95% of the player base will never do act 6 exploration. Not because they don't have the champs or the skill, they just don't want to do content that is designed for 8* champions. I have 30 rank 5 5* or equivalent in 6* and I will never do act 6 exploration. Attack is WAY too high, nodes are WAY too overpowered, champ requirements are WAY too specific, it's just awful game design. I'm already at the point of considering just quitting because there's nothing for me to do. I'm not going to waste units on horrible game design so the game is pretty much over for me at this point. And that's really sad.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? Just fights based on skill and not horrible nodes. If there are 150 champs in the game (i don't even know if this is true) then at the VERY LEAST 10% or 15 champs should be viable for every fight in act 4/5/6/7/8. If 15+ champs aren't viable for a fight, the fight shouldn't be in the game. In 6.2.5 you have on the horribly designed gated cosmic path, a bleed node and an incinerate node. The only options for the Bleed node that are Cosmic are Groot, King Groot, and Corvus. Groot and KG suck, so you have Corvus as the one and only counter. On the Incinerate node, the only Cosmic counters are Annihilus and Silver Surfer. NEITHER of those champs existed when act 6 came out so you designed a node with zero counters. I'm fine with hard fights but come on now, give us a chance.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? Excited to finally be done with Act 6. And like I stated, sadly, I'll never go back and get to do that fight again. Then got the rewards and pulled nothing good so then felt depleted and sad.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? I only did one path, I honestly don't even remember the linked node. I chose a path that looked the easiest for my skill/champs and just went.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? I really liked the fact that ANY champion could be use. Sure there are better ones but you were nearly as limited to who you brought.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
The timing of that reversed controls activating the first time when going into attempting that 5th challenge. For me, it just felt like it too often came at an awkward timing and had issues being able to switch my mind to do reverse and then keep in that rythym
What would you change in the fight?
Not sure... Maybe have some type of transition window like there is between fight phases for the reversed controls?
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
That they not be so specific to certain main OP/God Tier champs in the game. Our full rosters should have a valid shot at taking them down
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
Pretty satisifying. Rewards were decent and the fight mechanics/challenges were fun and new
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
I didn't really noticed much with the linked nodes being there. It would be nice that after 100%, there was an option/path that opened up to go directly to the Grand Master so we can have more fun against that fight. It's a one of a kind and would like more access to it. Since I'm 100% on Act6, can't we have direct access w/o having to go thru an entire path?
"I would add a direct line. This could be a gated path and you receive the key after your first completion. This would allow us to practice this extremely fun fight, try out new champions, etc without having to do a whole path."
In the interest of feedback, I hope Kabam puts up a similar thread with the same questions for the Abyss Collector fight. While getting to the root of what people like is important, I feel it's equally important to understand what aspects of a fight players don't like.
Evading special L1
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Inverted controls
What would you change in the fight?
Life of grandmaster
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Similar ways to fight vs bosses. Doable.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
Great!!!
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
Only has done one path so can not share experience.
Game requiere lot of time for act 6 and have a personal life.
If that’s what you’re looking for then look no further
People love this fight because it was nothing like the rest of chapter 6. Acid wash mysterio, thunderstruck king groot, darkhawk, domino on any node, 6.2 taking forever. etc all were fights that seem like they were designed to frustrate players rather than provide them entertainment.
Do 90% less dmg bc of x,y,z is probably the thing everyone wouldn’t miss if it was removed from game files by the way
Feedback to follow.....
The fight was a puzzle challenge that didn't rely of janky game mechanics (*cough The Champion cough*), and you had the chance to mess up while figuring it out without instantly dying to 1 combo because of the standard insane attack values.
YOU CAN GET THROUGH THE FIGHT WITH ANY CHAMP IN THE GAME!!! None of this garbage where a small handfull of champs are viable and every other 140+ champs in the game end in a sickening Unit and Resource spend.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Some of the prompts didn't seem to properly register the actions I was doing to remove them in sequence, so I was penalized while dexing, holding block, or using a light attack at the same time, when I understood once you clear one prompt challenge you were clear to use that mechanic until the next prompt. Maybe a bug during my run?
What would you change in the fight?
Specials that are unavoidable to parry or evade in the game is garbage and always has been. The GM's SP2 is a perfect example of that and should be changed so you can practice to evade it all (as should be the same for all specials).
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Fights that don't feel so punishing that you think the only way to complete it is with a few select champs, a deep wallet, or stacked stash of resources. Boss fights should be hard, but during the course of the fight you should be rewarded for being a skilled player and also not die the instant you make 1 mistake (back to insane attach damage...)
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
I felt great.. It reminded me of when i was a kid and finally beat Mike Tyson in Punchout on the NES. The fight was brutally hard and took weeks to pass, but over that time I was able to practice on him again and again easily and was rewarded by my skill, not some magic item or new character I got my RNG.
Most of the bosses in the game when I finish I drop the phone with a "FINALLY.... MAN" yell, and take a walk around the house to calm my nerves and usually anger. The GM fight when I beat him, I was pumped, excited and elated because it was stressful, hard, but most importantly FUN and REWARDING!
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
I've only finished 1 path so far so can't comment on the remaining linked nodes.
Keep the game going in the direction of this Boss fight, and roads leading up to it similar to the last Variant which was another all around FUN and REWARDING piece of content. This game can be hard and challenging without making us feel like we have to grind arena or buy units to have a 1 in 150+ chance on pulling the right champ at the right time with the right random resources to feasibly complete content. I started out playing this game pretty much when it came out, and kept playing because I was having fun, but now it's honestly just a bad addiction I keep going back to by habbit which I don't always enjoy but feel like I need to keep grinding away at every piece of subpar content just to be able to keep up with all the new "FUN AND INTERACTIVE" unavoidable damage node combinations. Let's get this back to a FUN game. If you scrapped the monthly EQ and just rolled out Variant level content similarly creative to the last Variant it would be perfect.
2)The most frustrating is the first phase where i cant get more intercepts with only one shot
3)Nothing I managed with sinister in inverse controls
4)SAME AS THIS FIGHT
5)I want to see in future fights
New exciting and enjoyable nodes and these phases and wounding i loved the most and all champions can have a sniff on that boss(NOT A ONE MAN SHOW)
6)I felt a burden has been removed and juicy rewards got the most favourite CORVUS SANITY
7) I read the nodes they are bit tricky and one champion based
This is not good for game progress
SAME AS ACT 6 (VERY VERY TOUGH AND BIG ATTACK)
Actually you should ask feedback on ACT6 not on EVERYONE BOY GRANDMASTER FIGHT
QUAKE + GHOST = ACT 6 OVER
- challenges in the fight that was designed to ramp up attack bonus
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
- the grandmaster AI changes from phase to phase. Baiting special 1 became more inconsistent
What would you change in the fight?
- phase 3 reverse controls timer...because it was a long timer it was hard to time the transition (add number countdown similiar to Aegon combo shield cooldown
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
-Fights designed to reward skill and allow any champ to be used rather than having to bring specific niche counter (ie vs the champion)
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
-ready to retire
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
-each had their own give and take which was interesting.
2. The way the interaction was designed and the thought process behind it was exceptional.
3. The concept of fulfilling objectives from the Grandmaster and then getting heavily rewarded for it was the BEST part.
4. I had no issues about the unblockable L1. Didn't feel it was tough to evade.
5. The concept of gaining tokens was amazing and getting rewarded for good skill in balance shown was really good.
6. Tbh, everything went well until that inverted controls thing which is always problematic.
7. But because the Grandmaster's base attack was lower it wasn't like you get instant KO
8. The fight in all other than that inverted controls stuff had no Loop hole and was very very perfectly designed.
GREAT JOB.
9. Some paths and defenders on it felt too much
10. Like the Lifecycle path with defenders with high base attack on it was really problematic. Having taken that myself on my 1st run. Oh man that KM cost me a lot.
11. Overall leaving some paths behind it was good. But again the most loved thing in the whole 6.4 was only the Grandmaster fight and the concept of it rewarding players for doing a right thing by showing skills and not just having a particular champ!
12. Please note when you make future content please don't raise the base attack so high that it becomes unbearable. Just keep some space for showing skills!.. Thanks! @""Kabam Miike"
None. It was extremely frustrating. Not as horrible as the champion, but the immense health pool more than made up for the slightly less frustrating mechanics.
Extremely skill intensive, too many revives wasted without making the slightest dent in the overall health pool. If you intended this fight to be only for the most skilled among your player base it was a success. But as an average player I had an extremely bad time, and I never want to do that fight again.
- decrease the health pool dramatically, as it is now it's too much in the spirit of "play perfectly or go home". Allow those who do not play perfectly to have some sense they're progressing through the fight.
- add an extra path directly to the grandmaster fight. At least it would allow us to practice without wasting time and revives to get through the horrible fights leading up to the boss. I imagine the fight can be enjoyable once you learn it, but if you have to pay several revives and more than half an hour of time just to get to the fight, once you're there you feel pressured to finish it. You do not have the luxury of quitting, and without repeated tries it's difficult to build up the experience needed to actually enjoy the fight.
- the fight has way too many things you need to be aware of. Either reduce the number of things we need to keep track of or make them more predictable (for example instead of random challenges make them rotating in a pre-determined order).
- remove the unblockable aspect of the first hit of the SP1. Or make it easier to react to it. The AI is way too erratic and throws that sp1 without any warning, unless you are lucky enough to predict the AI will actually throw the sp1 and not dash at you, it will connect and most likely kill you.
- go easier on the "intercept like a pro or go home" mechanic, we are not all intercept gods
- fix all the other bugs that made this fight so much more difficult than it needed to be. 30% of the fights ended before they started because the game just refused to register dash backs at the start of the fight. And a significant number of additional deaths was caused by the fact that immediately following a special attack the game refuses to accept inputs and you and up just staying there motionless getting combo'd into oblivion
If by future boss fights you mean things like the champion and grandmaster (or that stupid thanos fight from a while back) - I for one do not want to see any more boss fights. But if you insist on adding them, at the very least add one path that leads directly to the boss so we can actually practice without wasting resources.
Frustrated and empty. With a hint of disgust because I know I will eventually go back in and complete the rest of the lanes.
I only played one path but I did not feel it had any impact on the gameplay.
Disclaimer : my experience with the grandmaster fight was heavily influenced by the high number of existing bugs in the game and the current inconsistent behaviour I experience in fights (inputs not registering at the beginning of the fight and immediately after special attacks, extremely erratic AI behaviour)
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
None. It was black hole for revives and felt very frustrating. I did not enjoy it at all. As a player of average skill I simply found this fight too much. It is not as bad as the champion fight, but even if it has somewhat more manageable mechanics, it more than makes up for it due to the overwhelming health pool.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Extremely skill intensive. The general feeling that you have to "play perfectly or get out". If you want to make content only for the most skilled in your player base it's perfectly fine, but be aware that in doing this you may end up losing your less skilled players.
What would you change in the fight?
- reduce emphasis on intercept
- get rid of the unblockable part of the sp1
- reduce health pool
- reduce number of things we have to keep track of, it's just too much
- reduce the randomness of the challenges, use a pre-defined order for them
- add a lane leading directly to the boss. It would at least allow us to experience the fight without wasting half an hour and several revives just to get through the horrors leading up to the boss.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
If by "boss fights" means things like grandmaster, champion or that thanos from a while back - I do not want to see any more boss fights. Or at the very least make it so we can engage the boss without wasting time and resources on the fights leading to it.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
Frustrated and empty. I never want to fight that thing ever again. But at the same time sad and angry because I just know I will go back in there to finish the remaining lanes.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
I only played one path but I did not feel it had any influence on the actual fight.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
-> The fact that you should jump into different modes which were 90% skill based.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
-> It was very frustrating to see that Juggernaut was not inverted control immune, even though he typically is immune to it during normal fights. (is that maybe a bug?)
What would you change in the fight?
-> I wouldn't change the fight itself, but I would suggest having a dedicated path to the boss (this suggestion is the same from a very good german youtuber). In this case, this could be a path just for completion, without any other champs. The other 5 paths would be normal ones, with other champs to fight first. This way we can always train against the grandmaster.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
->Attack rating shouldn't be that high where just a couple of hits on block can kill your champion. (6.2.6 champion is a example, i actually like the style of the fight but the last 10% health pool was horrible since a couple of hits into our blocks would kills us and we wouldn't get 5 prowess buffs).
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
->It felt not so great since I gave up on fighting again inverted controls and just pushed through with aegon's heavy attacks. However, the next 5 fights were great since I played with Colossus and they were more skill based. I felt proud of myself.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
-> I almost didn't feel the difference. The only annoying one was a path where we only had 3 chances to make a mistakes otherwise we would get a level 3. That particular path was not nice.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? This is my favorite fight in the game and still want to do that fight from time to time after I already have fully explored Act 6. I wouldn't go as far to say 'frustrating', but I really wish, once fully explored, I could just portal straight to the boss to bypass the paths on the way.
What would you change in the fight? My first attempt, it was difficult to know what the challenge was if you missed it. Since then, you've added that to the pause screen. Nothing else comes to mind.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? More skill based, less champion based. Mr. Sinister boss, for example, was not possible until I pulled the right champs and/or synergy team. However, GM was all about my ability to play the game with my favorite champs. Sure, some champs could do better than others, but it was balanced enough that any champ could do it.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? I was pumped! Not only because I cleared the content, but because it was such a challenging, yet rewarding fight. If I could portal straight to the GM, this would be my new testing ground (sorry ROL WS).
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? Some paths were better than others. A few nodes had a very "Do you have Ghost or Quake?" vibe, I don't have either, so it wasn't a great time. Regarding the links coming into the GM, they were not bad, in some cases not noticeable whether active or disabled, tbh.