Where are Asians in Game?

2

Comments

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★

    Shamir51 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.
    Agains using race as a factor.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Sounds like you’re discriminating based on race.
    For not wanting to play as a character I don't identify with? I'm not saying that I'm avoiding him based on his race. I'm simply saying that if there was a character that was more like myself, I would choose them over a straight, white, male.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Posts: 622 ★★★
    CoachBoo said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    Been playing for 3 years and the moment my friend asked the question was also the first time I noticed. It is not about making a stance, just about making an observation and a suggestion. I love the game as is but no harm in putting it out there to think about.
    That’s a reasonable response. I guess the only thing I’d say is how many Asian superheroes actually exist in the Marvel universe?

    Personally I thought Shang-Chi would have made more sense to introduce than a few champs they’ve released recently (including Hit Monkey) but I also understand why they’d be holding him back until the movie is released.

    I genuinely don’t know the answer to “who else is there” without looking it up.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    Shamir51 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.
    Agains using race as a factor.
    A factor for what?
  • CoachBooCoachBoo Posts: 14
    I find it more interesting that many find it important enough to push back on these feelings instead of just saying “huh yeah not a lot of asians in game, oh well, does”t bother me”
    Instead someone says
    “This guy posted about ethnicity. I’m going to comment about brining it up”
    So far, many people’s argument is
    “Can’t you just play the game!?!?”
    When they could also “just play the game” and not interfere with a positive discussion.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    I just want to see more representation of different cultures/races/sexual orientations.

    You could argue that it's just a game, that it doesn't represent the real world. You could argue the same about literature, which is false. Superheroes/villains are written to represent an altered version of our world, while still retaining parts that we are familiar with. That's why we relate to superheroes who have weaknesses since we have weaknesses. That's why we feel connected to superheroes who have the same traits that we do. That's also why we gravitate towards characters who are culturally/racially/sexually similar to ourselves.

    Saying that a character in a comic book doesn't represent parts of our real world is false. They all embody aspects of the human experience. That's why they were written.

    Saying that world issues shouldn't be brought into the game is also false. An example would be Kamala Khan. She normalizes the "Muslim-American experience". That is a political statement right there. Her inclusion in the game sends a message out, telling people to be proud that they are Muslim.
  • CoachBooCoachBoo Posts: 14
    Shamir51 said:

    CoachBoo said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    Been playing for 3 years and the moment my friend asked the question was also the first time I noticed. It is not about making a stance, just about making an observation and a suggestion. I love the game as is but no harm in putting it out there to think about.
    That’s a reasonable response. I guess the only thing I’d say is how many Asian superheroes actually exist in the Marvel universe?

    Personally I thought Shang-Chi would have made more sense to introduce than a few champs they’ve released recently (including Hit Monkey) but I also understand why they’d be holding him back until the movie is released.

    I genuinely don’t know the answer to “who else is there” without looking it up.
    That would be the larger “diversity” discussion, that I was not looking to get into. I just know that there are SOME out there and that I would like (not need) any or more in game. I feel it would make the game more enjoyable for many and that is what it’s all about. I forgot about the Shang-Chi movie coming soon, I am looking forward to it. Hoping he’s not another Iron Fist lol
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★
    FYI Psylocke.
  • o_oo_o Posts: 189 ★★
    Quake and Psylocke are both Asian-American...
    Definitely a lack of Asian marvel characters overall though... aside from those already mentioned, i can only think of Jubilee, Lady Deathstrike, Silk, Sunfire, and Amadeus Cho
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Posts: 622 ★★★

    Shamir51 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.

    Your answer is incredibly interesting.

    Dealing first with toy companies making dolls- if I go back to when i was a kid, pretty much 99% of toys depicting humans in some form could be classed as white. This never seemed to be an issue for non whites in regards to the enjoyment they got from them. I don’t claim to speak for everyone but I was quite happy with my He-Man despite the fact he was white and the same could be said for my friends in school who were of various colours and creeds. The second point about dolls in particular is that they’re designed for an age group that can’t grasp the concept of “identifying with”. Kids just wanna play. I know this as I have 2 8 year olds.

    The 2nd part of your answer was fascinating as it got me thinking. I loved Black Panther as a movie. The biggest reason why was Killmonger and that because I really related to the character and his motivations. I don’t need to provide details why I could relate, but I could. Equally, I really loved Captain America: Winter Soldier. But there were no characters that I could relate to there.

    I respect everyone right to have their own opinion, but my own is that in fictional medium, representation is irrelevant.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    Shamir51 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.

    Your answer is incredibly interesting.

    Dealing first with toy companies making dolls- if I go back to when i was a kid, pretty much 99% of toys depicting humans in some form could be classed as white. This never seemed to be an issue for non whites in regards to the enjoyment they got from them. I don’t claim to speak for everyone but I was quite happy with my He-Man despite the fact he was white and the same could be said for my friends in school who were of various colours and creeds. The second point about dolls in particular is that they’re designed for an age group that can’t grasp the concept of “identifying with”. Kids just wanna play. I know this as I have 2 8 year olds.

    The 2nd part of your answer was fascinating as it got me thinking. I loved Black Panther as a movie. The biggest reason why was Killmonger and that because I really related to the character and his motivations. I don’t need to provide details why I could relate, but I could. Equally, I really loved Captain America: Winter Soldier. But there were no characters that I could relate to there.

    I respect everyone right to have their own opinion, but my own is that in fictional medium, representation is irrelevant.
    I get that people also relate to characters through non-racial aspects, but for me, as a child, I grew up wondering why the toy stores didn't have any action figures who looked like me. Of course, I still loved my Power Rangers (Green because I related to his personality traits), but I would also relate to an Asian-American action figure if there was one.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
  • CoachBooCoachBoo Posts: 14

    FYI Psylocke.

    I see that. But Psylocke is a white british woman in the Physical incarnation of an asian body. Another loophole unfortunately.
    Albeit a very attractive loophole lol
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★
    CoachBoo said:

    FYI Psylocke.

    I see that. But Psylocke is a white british woman in the Physical incarnation of an asian body. Another loophole unfortunately.
    Albeit a very attractive loophole lol
    If it’s about Asian soul/influence you now have Doctor Strange and Mordo to play with.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
  • CoachBooCoachBoo Posts: 14

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    Actually, non prejudice people DO see those factors and then accept them. To distance yourself from another’s viewpoint is the divisiveness that you speak of. Instead of not seeing it, see it all.

    CoachBoo said:

    FYI Psylocke.

    I see that. But Psylocke is a white british woman in the Physical incarnation of an asian body. Another loophole unfortunately.
    Albeit a very attractive loophole lol
    If it’s about Asian soul/influence you now have Doctor Strange and Mordo to play with.

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    This is true. It is a flawed argument. Instead of “not seeing”, one should “see all and accept and appreciate”
    - probably a quote from some philosopher.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
    No, I simply stated that I don't relate to being of Caucasian ethnicity. Do you relate to an ethnicity that isn't yours? Do you relate to a culture that is wildly different from your own?

    Saying that I don't relate to someone's race isn't showing a bias.

    And you're the one who's discriminating against other ethnicities by not recognizing the differences between ethnicities. If you don't recognize that people have different races, you're basically invalidating them, and their race. By saying that a white character should be good enough for an Asian player since "you don't see color", you're invalidating the Asian race.
  • Samuel030sSamuel030s Posts: 121
    The fact of the matter is, this is a Marvel game. As such, the source material for all of the characters is from Marvel history, which doesn't have a history of promoting and creating more diverse characters until more recent years, from 2010 onwards, roughly.
    Kabam could make new, original characters like they did for Ægon and Guillotine, but let's face it, the majority of the writing is the game more oriented towards fun and humor than complex character development. If they were to make more diverse characters, they'd be guilty of doing the same thing that Marvel has arguably been doing with their comics; creating new, diverse characters, or variations of older characters who are defined by the fact that they are diverse. Instead creating of a superpowered character with relatable struggles and motivations who happens to be Asian, they create a character who is Asian, and happens to also have superpowers.
    Creating diverse characters for diversity's sake leads to flat characters who stand to weaken the argument for diversity in all forms of media than strengthen it.
    Characters like Amadeus Cho and Miss America (America Chavez) are examples of this, whereas characters like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are examples of characters who are well-written superheroes who happen to have more diverse backgrounds.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 4,481 ★★★★★
    For some reason, people seem to be taking it very personally that OP wants more Asian characters in the game. Is it really that big of a deal that people want more representation? I would like to see more gay characters in the game, we only have Iceman that I know of and I would like to see more gay characters to play as. Then again, it also really isn't that big of a deal for me as this is just a fighting game, it's not like it affects a champion's ability if they are gay or not or not white or not.
    If I cared about playing as someone who I relate with, I would play as Iceman a lot more often, but I don't because Iceman really isn't all that useful in the meta. I don't relate at all to the characters I primarily play as (Ghost, Ant-Man, Psylocke, Fury, Sparkles, Doom, Corvus, Aegon, Starky, Sunspot, Ronin, Claire, Thing, Havok, Mister Fantastic, Sentinel, Colossus, Hyperion, Venom to name a few). It would be cool to see more representation in the game, but ultimately it just doesn't seem as important to me as characters that are fun to play.
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Posts: 4,481 ★★★★★

    The fact of the matter is, this is a Marvel game. As such, the source material for all of the characters is from Marvel history, which doesn't have a history of promoting and creating more diverse characters until more recent years, from 2010 onwards, roughly.
    Kabam could make new, original characters like they did for Ægon and Guillotine, but let's face it, the majority of the writing is the game more oriented towards fun and humor than complex character development. If they were to make more diverse characters, they'd be guilty of doing the same thing that Marvel has arguably been doing with their comics; creating new, diverse characters, or variations of older characters who are defined by the fact that they are diverse. Instead creating of a superpowered character with relatable struggles and motivations who happens to be Asian, they create a character who is Asian, and happens to also have superpowers.
    Creating diverse characters for diversity's sake leads to flat characters who stand to weaken the argument for diversity in all forms of media than strengthen it.
    Characters like Amadeus Cho and Miss America (America Chavez) are examples of this, whereas characters like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are examples of characters who are well-written superheroes who happen to have more diverse backgrounds.

    Forced diversity is the one of the most aggravating thing to me, especially as a writer myself. Miles Morales is the best example Marvel has of a character that has a diverse background but isn't defined by their background. When I think of Miles, I don't think of Black Spiderman, I just think of him as another Spiderman whereas Cho isn't another Hulk, he's Asian Hulk.
    In my own novels, my characters are diverse (several LBGT, Asian, Mexican, African, and disabled characters) but none of them have their diversity as the main or sole aspect of their character. That is to say that they aren't gay for the sake of having a gay character, they are a character who happens to be gay. To me, this is the best way to write diverse characters because by drawing extreme attention to what makes them diverse makes them a weak character because what you're really saying is "look how tolerant we are! Look how much we care, we gave you this gay guy to relate to!" which to me always seems really patronizing and pandering.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,475 ★★★★★

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
    No, I simply stated that I don't relate to being of Caucasian ethnicity. Do you relate to an ethnicity that isn't yours? Do you relate to a culture that is wildly different from your own?

    Saying that I don't relate to someone's race isn't showing a bias.

    And you're the one who's discriminating against other ethnicities by not recognizing the differences between ethnicities. If you don't recognize that people have different races, you're basically invalidating them, and their race. By saying that a white character should be good enough for an Asian player since "you don't see color", you're invalidating the Asian race.
    Who was the one who said he would rather not play as a white male? Come off it.

    This is a game based on Marvel Characters, sorry if you’re blind to their back stories and history but instead look at something so basic as color, facial features and genitals. It’s pretty small minded and ignores the inclusive diversity already present.
This discussion has been closed.