Summoner Showdown Calculations

Hyperion · August 2020

So how does a higher DPS get 4th? Not certain if this is right but just by reading those stats the player in 4th in this image should be in third.
Doesn't give much confidence that the rankings are properly worked out.

Mathgeek · August 2020

And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health

ItsDamien · August 2020

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health

Not necessarily. It depends when the main bulk of the DPS occurs and whether it's a sustained amount or done in bursts. It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner. Even if the time shows 399 on the board, that could be 399.1 or 399.9.

Thicco_Mode · August 2020

ItsDamien said:

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health
Not necessarily. It depends when the main bulk of the DPS occurs and whether it's a sustained amount or done in bursts. It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner. Even if the time shows 399 on the board, that could be 399.1 or 399.9.

I don't think it matters whether it's in bursts, but the second part makes sense

ItsDamien · August 2020

Thicco_Mode said:

ItsDamien said:

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health
Not necessarily. It depends when the main bulk of the DPS occurs and whether it's a sustained amount or done in bursts. It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner. Even if the time shows 399 on the board, that could be 399.1 or 399.9.
I don't think it matters whether it's in bursts, but the second part makes sense

Well, I was thinking more to do with Assassin, as with more ranks you do more damage at 18% or less. So for example, if player A only had 1 rank in Assassin but was doing Higher DPS from 100-18%, but player B had 3 ranks in Assassin, but lower DPS from 100-18%, when Assassins range kicks in player Bs DPS would start rising higher and could potentially beat Player A, even though they finish at the same time.

Thicco_Mode · August 2020

ItsDamien said:

Thicco_Mode said:

ItsDamien said:

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health
Not necessarily. It depends when the main bulk of the DPS occurs and whether it's a sustained amount or done in bursts. It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner. Even if the time shows 399 on the board, that could be 399.1 or 399.9.
I don't think it matters whether it's in bursts, but the second part makes sense
Well, I was thinking more to do with Assassin, as with more ranks you do more damage at 18% or less. So for example, if player A only had 1 rank in Assassin but was doing Higher DPS from 100-18%, but player B had 3 ranks in Assassin, but lower DPS from 100-18%, when Assassins range kicks in player Bs DPS would start rising higher and could potentially beat Player A, even though they finish at the same time.

but it would be the same, because the dps for this is calculated by health/time, so the extra burst at the end at 1% wouldn't matter, and regarding the assassin's, generally, yes whoever with higher assassin will probably have slightly higher dps. but if they finish at the exact same time, their dps should be the same, even if whoever has the higher dps at any given moment changes throughout the fight

ItsDamien · August 2020

Thicco_Mode said:

ItsDamien said:

Thicco_Mode said:

ItsDamien said:

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health
Not necessarily. It depends when the main bulk of the DPS occurs and whether it's a sustained amount or done in bursts. It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner. Even if the time shows 399 on the board, that could be 399.1 or 399.9.
I don't think it matters whether it's in bursts, but the second part makes sense
Well, I was thinking more to do with Assassin, as with more ranks you do more damage at 18% or less. So for example, if player A only had 1 rank in Assassin but was doing Higher DPS from 100-18%, but player B had 3 ranks in Assassin, but lower DPS from 100-18%, when Assassins range kicks in player Bs DPS would start rising higher and could potentially beat Player A, even though they finish at the same time.
but it would be the same, because the dps for this is calculated by health/time, so the extra burst at the end at 1% wouldn't matter, and regarding the assassin's, generally, yes whoever with higher assassin will probably have slightly higher dps. but if they finish at the exact same time, their dps should be the same, even if whoever has the higher dps at any given moment changes throughout the fight

You would think that, but after staring at thousands of dps meters on WoW, I can tell you that it doesn't work like that

Thicco_Mode · August 2020

ItsDamien said:

Thicco_Mode said:

ItsDamien said:

Thicco_Mode said:

ItsDamien said:

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health
Not necessarily. It depends when the main bulk of the DPS occurs and whether it's a sustained amount or done in bursts. It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner. Even if the time shows 399 on the board, that could be 399.1 or 399.9.
I don't think it matters whether it's in bursts, but the second part makes sense
Well, I was thinking more to do with Assassin, as with more ranks you do more damage at 18% or less. So for example, if player A only had 1 rank in Assassin but was doing Higher DPS from 100-18%, but player B had 3 ranks in Assassin, but lower DPS from 100-18%, when Assassins range kicks in player Bs DPS would start rising higher and could potentially beat Player A, even though they finish at the same time.
but it would be the same, because the dps for this is calculated by health/time, so the extra burst at the end at 1% wouldn't matter, and regarding the assassin's, generally, yes whoever with higher assassin will probably have slightly higher dps. but if they finish at the exact same time, their dps should be the same, even if whoever has the higher dps at any given moment changes throughout the fight
You would think that, but after staring at thousands of dps meters on WoW, I can tell you that it doesn't work like that

I thought they confirmed that it was health/time taken? I don't play wow, but I'm assuming it's a live meter? in that case, obviously you can't do max health/time if it's live, but it still applies. it also depends how what the dps is about in wow. if it's over the entire match it whatever, it'd be different from dps at any given point.

SummonerNR · August 2020

Agree with @Thicco_Mode .
Discounting some variation for the ending kill-shot (whether the damage includes what that hit would have done, vs just including the actual amount of damage needed to get opponent down to 0), which may indeed be what contributed to the picture.

The rest should indeed be just total damage / time. Assuming Surfer has no way of Regen'ing during the fight (which would then increase the amount of total damage that was done).

So even if you did some super-mega hit in the middle of fight that took off 99% of his health, and just danced around for 3 minutes before that, and another 3 minutes after that, without doing any hits, until final regular damage kill blow, the DPS should be the same as if your hits were spaced out across that same amount of time.

ItsDamien · August 2020

SummonerNR said:
Agree with @Thicco_Mode .
Discounting some variation for the ending kill-shot (whether the damage includes what that hit would have done, vs just including the actual amount of damage needed to get opponent down to 0), which may indeed be what contributed to the picture.

The rest should indeed be just total damage / time. Assuming Surfer has no way of Regen'ing during the fight (which would then increase the amount of total damage that was done).

So even if you did some super-mega hit in the middle of fight that took off 99% of his health, and just danced around for 3 minutes before that, and another 3 minutes after that, without doing any hits, until final regular damage kill blow, the DPS should be the same as if your hits were spaced out across that same amount of time.

That would be assuming that a DPS meter would use a linear graph to represent damage over time on an average. With damage spiking, occasionally you can push more damage in an ending stage, which would spike up any DPS meter towards the end so it would be less representative than at the start of a fight.

But then again I don't know what sort of way they're measuring it. If they were simply doing Health of SS/seconds, then yes it would lead to exactly the same DPS, but if it were more real time metric, the higher the damage output before the end would skew the numbers a little, so say if you were at 3800 dps consistently, then the past 10% you went HAM and pushed out 4100 dps, the number would be closer to the 4000 mark than the 3900 mark of an average.

Man it's really hard to explain what I mean without showing it though...

Thicco_Mode · August 2020

ItsDamien said:

SummonerNR said:
Agree with @Thicco_Mode .
Discounting some variation for the ending kill-shot (whether the damage includes what that hit would have done, vs just including the actual amount of damage needed to get opponent down to 0), which may indeed be what contributed to the picture.

The rest should indeed be just total damage / time. Assuming Surfer has no way of Regen'ing during the fight (which would then increase the amount of total damage that was done).

So even if you did some super-mega hit in the middle of fight that took off 99% of his health, and just danced around for 3 minutes before that, and another 3 minutes after that, without doing any hits, until final regular damage kill blow, the DPS should be the same as if your hits were spaced out across that same amount of time.
That would be assuming that a DPS meter would use a linear graph to represent damage over time on an average. With damage spiking, occasionally you can push more damage in an ending stage, which would spike up any DPS meter towards the end so it would be less representative than at the start of a fight.

But then again I don't know what sort of way they're measuring it. If they were simply doing Health of SS/seconds, then yes it would lead to exactly the same DPS, but if it were more real time metric, the higher the damage output before the end would skew the numbers a little, so say if you were at 3800 dps consistently, then the past 10% you went HAM and pushed out 4100 dps, the number would be closer to the 4000 mark than the 3900 mark of an average.

Man it's really hard to explain what I mean without showing it though...

oh I think I see what you mean. I'm not sure if it would be different through the second way though

winterthur · August 2020

Leaderboard corrected.

Masterpuff · August 2020

@ItsDamien , it’s really simple how to calculate DPS. Amount of damage over amount of time. So faster=higher dps. I don’t see why this is difficult to understand.

ItsDamien · August 2020

Masterpuff said:
@ItsDamien , it’s really simple how to calculate DPS. Amount of damage over amount of time. So faster=higher dps. I don’t see why this is difficult to understand.

Yes. At a very base level you can use DPS like that as I said. If the calculation used it only Total Health/Seconds. But that isn't the only way to calculate DPS. Why is that hard to understand?

winterthur · August 2020

ItsDamien said:

Mathgeek said:
And isn't time and dps the same thing if silver surfer always has the same health
It would also depend on factors such as crits and and the health of the boss when the final blow was delivered, as even if the boss was on 1hp as the last hit landed, it would show more damage than that occurring, so I'd assume that hit in particular would have to be calculated in some manner.

This sounds right for me.

Trap · August 2020

These guys must have the best rng in the world. I’ve tried this event at least a million times (exaggerating) and always hit on average 6:40-50mins (400) and can see that I might be able to improve by 10-20 sec if rng was on my side. But anything under that I would love to see videos of because that’s insane times without boosting, not saying they are just I like to see it with my own 2 eyes.

CoatHang3r · August 2020

Trap said:
These guys must have the best rng in the world. I’ve tried this event at least a million times (exaggerating) and always hit on average 6:40-50mins (400) and can see that I might be able to improve by 10-20 sec if rng was on my side. But anything under that I would love to see videos of because that’s insane times without boosting, not saying they are just I like to see it with my own 2 eyes.

Are you immediately starting with light attacks after your s3 and possibly running max dex to maximize the amount of crit you deal to inflict bleed? Would like to see your video...;)

Trap · August 2020

https://youtu.be/VJZM_X8_kSQ

Trap · August 2020

This is an old video I have shaved off 3-5 secs since then fixing little things here and there, basically if I haven’t reached 30 bleeds by the time 8mins hit I quit and start again. I generally bait out his specials 1st or 2nd go and can see where if rng played in my favors I could be 10-20 faster but not a whole minute...

CoatHang3r · August 2020

The things that immediately jump out at me.

1) you lose dps starting with a parry open with a light attack combo.

2) slow on the First armor shatter, you had extra power hat you didn’t need to reach your s3.

3) pay attention to his power state when launching your s3 as you can hit him with light attacks just after it ends to boost your dps while landing more bleeds.

4) I’m not sure how much more dps this would give you but maxing dex gives you large boost to your crit rating up to mid 40s rather than high 20s. Too me that means you’ll land more bleeds which is where your dps is at.

5) if you have the hp to spare, you block the end of his s1 to immediately land light attacks.

6) when he throws his s1 I think you can shave time by running in before he does his dip/last hit, this closes the gap which prolly shaves time for each one he throws.

Trap · August 2020

Thank you kind sir will try all these methods

CoatHang3r · August 2020

This is not using a mastery build for the competition so I would not use it as a direct dps comparison nor use is it an example of perfect gameplay; it’s meant to show some of the techniques I mentioned in action and I just threw it together to illustrate the thing I mentioned.

https://youtu.be/9Ah-tfqyOt4

Irish_Chaos1222 · August 2020

Looks like you got hit right man?

Summoner Showdown Calculations

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