Do you think requirements for thronebreaker are fair?

I'm just curious to see how many people do vs how many people don't. Votes are anonymous btw!

Comments

No, the r3 requirement is just too much considering that for me t5cc is almost impossible to get. Only way to get a r3 within a year is Abyss and with my skill level i'll need about 24k units for that (12k atm)

Sounds like the requirements are good then. It's the highest title in the game. If you can't run Abyss or 100% act 6 you shouldn't have it. I don't have it because I haven't done either yet, though that's by choice in my case. I'll do an abyss run soon.

TheMailmann

No, the r3 requirement is just too much considering that for me t5cc is almost impossible to get. Only way to get a r3 within a year is Abyss and with my skill level i'll need about 24k units for that (12k atm)

you might think that because you haven’t tried it. i consider myself below average player, mainly because most runs by other players require less units than when I do it like act 6 completion. but if you have the right champs for Abyss, Aegon, Torch and SS/Doom for easy path, you don’t really need units as much as that. I really thought that I needed much more but if you have enough resources, just time-consuming.

I did it around 4K units, probably would have been 5K if i include health pots and revives in my stash. the best thing about it is you only need to do 1 run to get those rewards and exploration gives you the best rewards in this game. I think that it is fair actually

Uvogin

I don't think there's anyone who's still cavalier after abyss 100% cause of the 6* class nexus crystal selector (if there is he/she might be the unluckiest person ever). So just consider 100% abyss as the requirement and start working towards it. Sure some people might get Thronebreaker before that but that's just their luck and complaining about that won't get you anywhere.

Aleor

I don't think there's anyone who's still cavalier after abyss 100% cause of the 6* class nexus crystal selector (if there is he/she might be the unluckiest person ever). So just consider 100% abyss as the requirement and start working towards it. Sure some people might get Thronebreaker before that but that's just their luck and complaining about that won't get you anywhere.

100% aol as requirement? Are you serious? With r5 5* or r2 6* it takes 3-4k units per run. Making it about 15-20k overall. The final boss is just a pure cash grab. Content like that can never be a requirement. If you don't know, 15k units is A LOT, at least for f2p players.

Aztec

Just stop discussing this thing again and again.

beaker1000

No, the r3 requirement is just too much considering that for me t5cc is almost impossible to get. Only way to get a r3 within a year is Abyss and with my skill level i'll need about 24k units for that (12k atm)
you might think that because you haven’t tried it. i consider myself below average player, mainly because most runs by other players require less units than when I do it like act 6 completion. but if you have the right champs for Abyss, Aegon, Torch and SS/Doom for easy path, you don’t really need units as much as that. I really thought that I needed much more but if you have enough resources, just time-consuming.

I did it around 4K units, probably would have been 5K if i include health pots and revives in my stash. the best thing about it is you only need to do 1 run to get those rewards and exploration gives you the best rewards in this game. I think that it is fair actually

Thanks for the reply, just pulled a Human Torch, i'm planning on doing Abyss this weekend, have 15k units atm, wil use Ægon, Nick Fury, Symbiote Supreme, Human Torch and Heimdal. Hope I can get it done😁

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Iron_Patriot_is_lit

I think it’s SLIGHTLY unfair. (Please don’t disagree me into oblivion.)

xNig

Totally not fair. It should be 3 R3s instead of 1.

(It’ll totally shut posts like threads like this. lol)

_Kill_Switch_

There shouldn't even be a debate considering all titles prior to TB only require you to clear content. That is the axiom of progression games (or at least the foundation they're built on).
If the R3 requirement was a limiting strategy then it begs the question... why wouldn't they just make it a Act 6 exploration achievement as opposed to completion? Or even better, make an act 7 achievement.
An R3 requirement was unnecessary, period.

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Crcrcrc

Guess what? It isn't changing. No matter how many threads people make or how much they whine. The title should have been 3 r3s to avoid entitled people who whine about being "so close" and that it is unfair. And I am not thronebreaker.

Colinwhitworth69

I am actually losing interest in Thronebreaker, because it feels like just another scheme to get us to spend wildly. Kabam creates a dumb artificial barrier to the title, then gives the players who are aiming for the title almost nothing on CW that might help them achieve it, and by the time most of us get that title otherwise Kabam will have devalued its rewards (like they did to Cav players) by creating a new title beyond TB and blathering on about the game economy (translation: profit margins).

I was part of the Act 7/Book 2 beta, both times, and the ONLY reason I want to complete Act 6 is to do Act 7, which actually looks fun and not the clown fiesta series of hot coals to walk over that is Act 6. But I am seriously at the point where I no longer care whether it happens, and I might just instead do the regular monthly stuff only, and forget about progression.

Seriously -- when progression only rewards you with the chance to get something somewhat valuable for your money, the game is broken.

Colinwhitworth69

Totally not fair. It should be 3 R3s instead of 1.

(It’ll totally shut posts like threads like this. lol)

The only req should have been completing Act 7, but guess what? Kabam couldn't get Act 7 out the door before CW so they created this artificial requirement so they could get all of the top players to buy the deals anyway.

TheTalents

I think the requirements are completely fair. If you're not playing map 7 to get a weekly 10% t5cc I don't think you have a right to complain about the requirements. Also, an initial abyss run shouldn't be too hard to do at this point. Plenty of videos out there where people have done it without Aegon.

DrZola

“Fairness” isn’t the metric by which I would judge things in a mobile game.

Dr. Zola

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Greekhit

I would say it’s partially fair.
6.4 completion seems fair for the new title.
5.2 Uncollected
6.1 Cavalier
6.4 Thronebreaker
It makes sense and it has a consistency. A title per 3 chapters of story quest.
Though the r3 requirement was a big missed shot, since it highly depends on luck. Whether to pull enough shards from a specific class to form a catalyst, and to have a non garbage champ at this class to r3 🙂

DNA3000

There shouldn't even be a debate considering all titles prior to TB only require you to clear content. That is the axiom of progression games (or at least the foundation they're built on).

Actually that's not true. It wasn't even originally true in this game. The meter for progression in this game was originally summoner level, and many progression based games use a similar leveling concept. This was changed in MCOC when it became clear that they were not going the WoW-route of boosting the level cap every time enough players piled up against it (which wouldn't work here because of the lack of a similar style of endgame and the lack of an economy that revolved around level-appropriate gear), when they introduced Uncollected which was the first real non-trivial content based progression gate. The lower titles were retroactively created.

Separate from player skill, this game has two, or arguably three progression directions. You can progress through higher story arc content. You can grow your roster. And within roster growth you have widening roster (i.e. collection, a fundamental of the game) and ranking roster upward. The game has always recognized both (or all three) as metrics for player progression. In fact, anyone around for 12.0 should remember that the 12.0 compensation package was progression based with player rating being the proxy for progression, in other words overall roster growth. Furthermore, until Uncollected came out the other primary proxy for player progression was prestige, another roster growth metric.

The problem MCOC faces is that the story arc content isn't, and cannot be an end game progression gate. If it is, then by definition almost all players will be stuck unable to progress in the core content of the game eventually. By definition, because you can't have a majority of the players in the "end game." Act 6 was originally designed that way, with difficulty parameters suitable for end game players. But the problem became that it was a roadblock to progress, because most players are not end game caliber players. They can't beat the content when it first comes out. They can try to build up roster and "outlevel" it, which is something that often happens in progression based games, MMOs in particular. The strongest players tackle the content when it first arrives when the content is super difficult compared to the strength of the players. But as the players get stronger with time, the average player's roster (or equivalent) strength rises to the point where they can beat it with their skill level. This works up to a point, but not if you simultaneously set the difficulty super-high and also gate significant roster progression behind it. That was basically Act 6 in a nutshell.

Rebalancing Act 6 seeks to address that problem, but it introduced a new problem. You need a relatively easy path through Act 6 so you don't permanently roadblock 90% of your players. You also want to respond to criticism that the game was saturating higher content with super-high attack and health numbers, making the fights scale to ridiculous levels. The alternative was, and is, making fights that required certain counters, or possessed certain advantages. We see that in Cavalier difficulty and in Book 2 (beta 2.0). Act 6, and moreso Book 2 moving forward, are implicit roster checks: if you have certain champs the fights in some paths are easy, or easier, and if you don't they are extremely difficult or borderline impossible.

This bifurcation in the content makes it much trickier to use it as a progress meter all on its own. Completion is too easy to be a suitable progression marker for the highest progression tier in the game. But full exploration locks players behind a very high roster check. If the current design imperative with the content, Act 6 and higher, is that anyone should be able to do first completion with reasonable effort and roster, but *no one* should *necessarily* expect to be able to fully explore the content without a very wide roster, gating progress behind it reproduces the very problem rebalancing was intended to solve.

Thronebreaker's requirements are a compromise between those different issues. Completion of Act 6 places a content completion requirement, and one rank 3 places a roster progression requirement. It was probably seen that the requirement to possess one rank 3 worthy 6* is lower than the roster requirement to have counters for all paths in Act 6. And I suspect that on average that's probably true: while many players have fully explored Act 6 but don't have (what they consider) a rank 3 worthy champ, there's probably just as many that have a rank 3 worthy champ but don't have all the counters for Act 6 full exploration.

What's perhaps more important, I think, is what the effects of time will have. Over time it will be easier for players to become Thronebreaker and easier to fully explore Act 6. But I think over time the current Thronebreaker requirements will be easier for the typical player to deal with than, say, requiring full exploration of Act 6. The jump from Cavalier to Thronebreaker seems very high now, when catalysts are more constrained. But I think in the future the jump from Cavalier to Thronebreaker will look more like the jump from Uncollected to Cavalier, whereas making the requirement full exploration of Act 6 would have made the jump from Cavalier to Thronebreaker seem excessively time consuming compared to the jump from Uncollected to Cavalier.

TyEdge

I would be very curious to know if there are summoners who now wish they could re-choose their selector from 6.4 completion.

It’s weird that the condition exists, but wasn’t announced concurrent with 6.4 release.

magnus_xix

Roughly 24hrs in and the vote is split right down the middle after yes was dominating for quite some tome. I was expecting it to be heavily weighted towards no but interesting nonetheless.

Greekhit

I would be very curious to know if there are summoners who now wish they could re-choose their selector from 6.4 completion.

It’s weird that the condition exists, but wasn’t announced concurrent with 6.4 release.

Those who had completed 6.4 at it’s release, they are not after forming a specific t5cc to become Thronebreaker.
They have already the title, along with multiple r3s 😉

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DNA3000

Roughly 24hrs in and the vote is split right down the middle after yes was dominating for quite some tome. I was expecting it to be heavily weighted towards no but interesting nonetheless.

Actually, I think 50/50 is more or less where I expected this to fall. There are *a lot* of players who think they were stuck in Cavalier for too long, and had already built rosters well beyond Cavalier tier. The majority of them were well *past* the TB requirements already, having explored or nearly explored Act 6 and having already ranked up more than one rank 3 or had the resources to do so and just not having pulled the trigger yet. Many of them don't even think it was a good idea to rebalance Act 6 to below end-game levels of difficulty. The vast majority of those players have no problem with TB, as they think the game was overdue to make a progression tier aimed even higher than that as it was.

The problem is that forum discussions are always weighted towards the people who are dissatisfied, because people tend to be motivated to complain about what they think is wrong more than are motivated to idly mention everything they think is right. So people almost always think the fraction of players dissatisfied with something is much higher than it generally is.

But it was clear to me reading as many discussions about the TB requirements as I could, that for every player that thought the requirement was unfair because it was too difficult, there was at least one player who thought the requirements were too low. And @xNig has a point, because the requirement was one R3 it is easy for people to think they are simultaneously "on the edge" and yet artificially far away. If the requirement was five R3s, say, no one would be encouraged to think they were just outside. Anyone with four R3s is not going to have a problem making a fifth. But the people with zero think the only thing holding them back from number one is RNG. That's not what's holding them back. Not earning a flood of T5CC and 6* champs, such that random chance has absolutely nothing to do with anything, is what is actually holding them back. The guy with 12 6* champs and 135% of a T5CC in total fragments requires pure luck. The guy with 80 6* champs and 700% of a T5CC in total fragments doesn't need any luck. Everyone else is somewhere in the middle, with luck helping a little and in-game progress helping a little.

TyEdge

Many will disagree. I think it’s fair. I have an issue with the rollout. Keep grinding and we’ll get there. Everyone can hopefully be supportive.

I know it’ll be tough. Some new content is coming this month.

All of us have the gifting event.

Christmas gifts are coming. Undertaking variant 5 100% is my goal. Newer players should try 6.1 100% as well. Try deepening your roster if that’s too much for you.

if anyone here really understands that, preach the message. capitalize on this opportunity and get those big rewards we missed this weekend.

xNig

Roughly 24hrs in and the vote is split right down the middle after yes was dominating for quite some tome. I was expecting it to be heavily weighted towards no but interesting nonetheless.
Actually, I think 50/50 is more or less where I expected this to fall. There are *a lot* of players who think they were stuck in Cavalier for too long, and had already built rosters well beyond Cavalier tier. The majority of them were well *past* the TB requirements already, having explored or nearly explored Act 6 and having already ranked up more than one rank 3 or had the resources to do so and just not having pulled the trigger yet. Many of them don't even think it was a good idea to rebalance Act 6 to below end-game levels of difficulty. The vast majority of those players have no problem with TB, as they think the game was overdue to make a progression tier aimed even higher than that as it was.

The problem is that forum discussions are always weighted towards the people who are dissatisfied, because people tend to be motivated to complain about what they think is wrong more than are motivated to idly mention everything they think is right. So people almost always think the fraction of players dissatisfied with something is much higher than it generally is.

But it was clear to me reading as many discussions about the TB requirements as I could, that for every player that thought the requirement was unfair because it was too difficult, there was at least one player who thought the requirements were too low. And @xNig has a point, because the requirement was one R3 it is easy for people to think they are simultaneously "on the edge" and yet artificially far away. If the requirement was five R3s, say, no one would be encouraged to think they were just outside. Anyone with four R3s is not going to have a problem making a fifth. But the people with zero think the only thing holding them back from number one is RNG. That's not what's holding them back. Not earning a flood of T5CC and 6* champs, such that random chance has absolutely nothing to do with anything, is what is actually holding them back. The guy with 12 6* champs and 135% of a T5CC in total fragments requires pure luck. The guy with 80 6* champs and 700% of a T5CC in total fragments doesn't need any luck. Everyone else is somewhere in the middle, with luck helping a little and in-game progress helping a little.

Thanks for spelling it out so clearly bro @DNA3000.

Anyone who has done A6 Exploration and/or AoL Completion, together with exploration of all Variants, shouldn’t have an issue with having a R3 if they have a 6* roster deep enough.