I chose wisley

2

Comments

  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 3,828 ★★★★★
    Crusher wrote: »
    danielmath wrote: »
    DaMunk wrote: »
    Well you do get people acting like there's been no devaluation...cough...grounded wisdom..cough among others. It would make sense to r4 a Mordo but say someone else has too in your bg...oh well. That sucks.
    The scoring system has been the biggest problem all along. If diversity was supposed to be a tie breaker it might be worth the risk of having multiple of the same champ. The risk reward part of defense is all screwed up. We'd be better off putting the heat on kabam rather than each other.

    Mordo has amazing prestige so he's a monster for AQ

    How he is monster for AQ..?

    He has awesome prestige, prestige = better AQ rewards
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,882 ★★★★
    Perfect example is having 2 Mordos r4 for defense. One duped and one is not. The unduped one sits on the bench. He's still a great defender unduped but his prestige isn't really there until he's awakened. So resources are still sort of wasted. Don't get me wrong it's not bad but if going solely for prestige lot's of duped champs would be better.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,645 ★★★★★
    I think the most relevant point here is that, had we known that alliance war was going to change in this way, we would have made very different choices in ranking up champions. Many of us have spent a great deal of time and resources obtaining, and ranking, a very specific set of champions based on a reality of the game.

    That reality has changed.

    Regardless of whether or not anyone views the decision to rank up specific champions as good or smart or savvy or foolish or annoying or any other adjective you might like to use--the decisions made were based on very specific realities of the game, and with a change of this magnitude, it would be reasonable and fair to provide a way for anyone who made decisions based on the previous reality of alliance war, to be able to avoid having to simply start building a defense all over again, and have their old defenses go to waste.

    If Kabam had been planning a change to war for a long time, it would have been very different if they had informed us that alliance war would be changing, and caution us against ranking up a small set of champions for war defense.

    As this was never done, and based on the fact that many of us are losing wars because we opted for our best defenders rather than diverse but lower ranked champs, we have found ourselves at a double-loss.

    Two easy ways to resolve this would be to either provide rank-up rewards, or rank-down tickets. As the latter has been declined many times, I would suggest that people be given rank-up rewards. It seems fair to do this based on prestige or PI, as an imperfect measures of course. But people of a certain level would be given 3-5 rank-up gems--either 5* rank-up gems, 4* rank-up gems, 3* gems or a combination, based on whatever metric makes the most sense.

    Kabam could have--and arguably should have--provided enough time for people to prepare for this change. The fact that this important information was not provided should, in all fairness, be made right now.

    Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The game constantly changes. The choices we made a year ago are not the same as the choices we would make now. The War Schematic has changed. It's not up to the game to provide us with the means to make different decisions when something new is added. That's a perpetual argument. They can't give us Resources whenever something is introduced so we can have the best possible options for us. Things change.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    I think the most relevant point here is that, had we known that alliance war was going to change in this way, we would have made very different choices in ranking up champions. Many of us have spent a great deal of time and resources obtaining, and ranking, a very specific set of champions based on a reality of the game.

    That reality has changed.

    Regardless of whether or not anyone views the decision to rank up specific champions as good or smart or savvy or foolish or annoying or any other adjective you might like to use--the decisions made were based on very specific realities of the game, and with a change of this magnitude, it would be reasonable and fair to provide a way for anyone who made decisions based on the previous reality of alliance war, to be able to avoid having to simply start building a defense all over again, and have their old defenses go to waste.

    If Kabam had been planning a change to war for a long time, it would have been very different if they had informed us that alliance war would be changing, and caution us against ranking up a small set of champions for war defense.

    As this was never done, and based on the fact that many of us are losing wars because we opted for our best defenders rather than diverse but lower ranked champs, we have found ourselves at a double-loss.

    Two easy ways to resolve this would be to either provide rank-up rewards, or rank-down tickets. As the latter has been declined many times, I would suggest that people be given rank-up rewards. It seems fair to do this based on prestige or PI, as an imperfect measures of course. But people of a certain level would be given 3-5 rank-up gems--either 5* rank-up gems, 4* rank-up gems, 3* gems or a combination, based on whatever metric makes the most sense.

    Kabam could have--and arguably should have--provided enough time for people to prepare for this change. The fact that this important information was not provided should, in all fairness, be made right now.

    Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The game constantly changes. The choices we made a year ago are not the same as the choices we would make now. The War Schematic has changed. It's not up to the game to provide us with the means to make different decisions when something new is added. That's a perpetual argument. They can't give us Resources whenever something is introduced so we can have the best possible options for us. Things change.

    The thing is... they gave us diversity so our "useless champs" could become useful again, and I guess for non repetitive defenders(but look at AQ so f off kabam lol). Anyway, now that diversity is pretty much mandatory, our champs that we ranked (yes we freaking chose to rank them up for defense)... are basically useless for what we mostly ranked them for. It's basically what it was before, just now it's easier for you so you won't cry about dying on magiks and stuff. This whole "you decided to rank em" or "don't expect to get stuff back after a game changing thing comes along" is bs, let's say I ranked dormammu for defense and I already have a perfect attack team for every where, this dorm is now benched because my Team mate has a 4/55 duped dorm placed. He's basically an arena or quest champ now(basically what these other champs were pre-change war, like IP, luke cage, spider gwen, blah blah). This does call for rank down tickets as it pretty much flips the god damn game for us who've worked our ass off for these champs to just become IP and be untouched. Diversity was brought in so that people like your self didn't have to deal with the limbo queen every where and md and the night crawlers. But also for the spenders who can buy there way to victory, without skill and without worrying about giving kills(woohoo, what a god damn war this game has now aye?).
    (Grounded, stop trying to be a mod buddy, 80% of the poeple just take you as a joke.)
  • MagicBentonMagicBenton Posts: 231 ★★
    Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The game constantly changes. The choices we made a year ago are not the same as the choices we would make now. The War Schematic has changed. It's not up to the game to provide us with the means to make different decisions when something new is added. That's a perpetual argument. They can't give us Resources whenever something is introduced so we can have the best possible options for us. Things change.

    This isn't "something new [being] added." They completely altered a significant part of the game that was already in place. If this was a new game mode that was added that required new/different rank-ups to be successful at, I don't think you'd find a single reasonable person complaining or asking for ways to re-allocate resources. Then your previous rank-ups would still be useful in the game mode you used those resources for. But what they've done is completely alter their usefulness in an entire game mode and replaced it with something different. This is an entirely different scenario than just "something new [being] added."

    /If you start another absurd argument about "usefulness" again I'm going to bang my head into a wall. So please don't.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,645 ★★★★★
    Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The game constantly changes. The choices we made a year ago are not the same as the choices we would make now. The War Schematic has changed. It's not up to the game to provide us with the means to make different decisions when something new is added. That's a perpetual argument. They can't give us Resources whenever something is introduced so we can have the best possible options for us. Things change.

    This isn't "something new [being] added." They completely altered a significant part of the game that was already in place. If this was a new game mode that was added that required new/different rank-ups to be successful at, I don't think you'd find a single reasonable person complaining or asking for ways to re-allocate resources. Then your previous rank-ups would still be useful in the game mode you used those resources for. But what they've done is completely alter their usefulness in an entire game mode and replaced it with something different. This is an entirely different scenario than just "something new [being] added."

    /If you start another absurd argument about "usefulness" again I'm going to bang my head into a wall. So please don't.

    The game is not built on re-allocating Resources. Nor is War the only place a Champ can be used. Nothing about the Champs themselves has been changed. The War System has. Making choices for Ranking has always been elective. When the Champs were changed during 12.0, that was an entirely different scenario. The Champs were changed, along with how they function. We Ranked who we wanted for War. That was not a mandatory situation. It was entirely up to us who we used. There is no area of the game that requires one specific Champ only. I've literally seen one or two paths that required us to HAVE a certian Champ in our slots. There are Champs that are more proficient at certian aspects than others. The whole preference has become so strong that it's seen as a requirement. That's not the case. Who we used was always up to us. Nor is any Champ literally made for War Defense alone. That's also a preference. The game is about acquiring Resources to Rank and making our own decisions based on what we want and need. The whole purpose of Champs doesn't revolve around War, even if it's the only thing we choose to use them for. That doesn't mean they are responsible for giving Resources to adjust to every change.
  • Dave_the_destroyerDave_the_destroyer Posts: 981 ★★
    edited October 2017
    DJSergy wrote: »
    .
    Again, you don’t understand the issue here.



    We all understand the issue you are claiming. I think you are unable to understand the answers, unless they agree with you. Thats the problem
  • WOKWOK Posts: 468 ★★
    edited October 2017

    Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The game constantly changes. The choices we made a year ago are not the same as the choices we would make now. The War Schematic has changed. It's not up to the game to provide us with the means to make different decisions when something new is added. That's a perpetual argument. They can't give us Resources whenever something is introduced so we can have the best possible options for us. Things change.

    First of all I'm more upset now because its becoming clear that I was excluded from Kabams mailing list. You know, the mailing list that sent out the all inclusive MCOC handbook that you seem to confidently be referring to when you advise of "that's not how it works". To list a few, other statements you've made about what was intended, Kabams objectives, their best efforts being set forth to fix things, etc. etc...

    This is strictly from my very own experience and perspective and in no way will I suggest that others may have similar playing to present time. Because that would imply that there are valid reasons for me to side with the majority of opinions related to the game, and I would rather prefer to be non-partial and go by the book just as a handful of others continue to do here in the forums.

    For approx. 1year following my first day of playing MCOC, I seem to recall that the only " major changes" that were ever made to the game were the new event quests that were rotated as they do now.
    During the course of that year, I believed I was acclimating to the game environment quite well and was able to form ideas of what the game required of me in order to progress enthusiastically through all the different categories of content.
    Unfortunately it just recently dawned on me that those ideas were totally offbase, of which one of those ideas was that different areas of the game had a handful of champions that were the most well designed to help complete/compete in the specific contents format much more easily and efficiently than the majority of other champs available.
    Im certainly paying the price now for naively setting a trend of ranking up those handful of champs when I was "unlucky enough" to gain one of them.
    I mean come on! Who in their right mind would assume that the game would stay consistent in all areas, and that my champ roster would hold the same value and power to help me help my alliance to continue winning? Just because it was like that for a year with no hints or announcements stating otherwise?? Totally inexcusable for me to have believed in such impossible absurdities.

    Another obviously false idea was that AW was THE #1 facet of the game that granted me resources for winning what otherwise I would either never have or would have required an enormous amount of time to acquire if our alliance was a majority loser and not a winner of matched wars. Which was the #1 reason why I had done what I had done. In hindsight, not only outrageous, but absolutely ridiculous what I did.

    I'll close with this. If it was decided and implemented live tomorrow that one of my champs would be taken away for every word exceeding a 10 word limit when submitting a post in this forum, I'm relieved that now I have the right frame of mind to give credit where credit is due and would applaude and welcome those new improved changes, while imploring the rest of the community do so as well.
    And surely there will be those that would voice dissatisfaction over something like that if it were to happen, but they obviously dont realize how things are done around here. And I will try to become an advocate to help them see the light! ;-)
  • DJSergyDJSergy Posts: 170 ★★
    danielmath wrote: »
    Crusher wrote: »
    danielmath wrote: »
    DaMunk wrote: »
    Well you do get people acting like there's been no devaluation...cough...grounded wisdom..cough among others. It would make sense to r4 a Mordo but say someone else has too in your bg...oh well. That sucks.
    The scoring system has been the biggest problem all along. If diversity was supposed to be a tie breaker it might be worth the risk of having multiple of the same champ. The risk reward part of defense is all screwed up. We'd be better off putting the heat on kabam rather than each other.

    Mordo has amazing prestige so he's a monster for AQ

    How he is monster for AQ..?

    He has awesome prestige, prestige = better AQ rewards

    This right here tells me you don’t see the issue as most of us. The main problem is Kabam making a change all of sudden and devaluating the champs you have spent time and resources.

    Lets say Kabam makes the decision to have AQ scores based on time attack rather than PRESTIGE. Well, guess what, all the resources people have spent ranking up champs based on prestige to stay ahead of the competition in AQ will go to waste. The Mordo you say is a monster in AQ is now usless.

    So we should just accept a change such as this? This is exactly what happened to AW and Kabam acting like nothing happeend. Seems the haven’t learend from v12 update.... Actually what happened to AW is even worst because the mode is boring now.
  • UnsaferBinkie7UnsaferBinkie7 Posts: 658 ★★
    @GroundedWisdom what's your in game name bud? :)
  • Ratso wrote: »
    I ranked up specific champions for there specific defensive skill set. They were doing great in AW until, how was it put, a major game change instead of major character change. Are these the semantics that kabam is using to justify the lack of compensation. I have Maxed defensive champs that have clearly been devalued by the severity of this game change. It is true the champ hasn't changed they are still great defenders that now now forced to ride the pine. At the time ranking these character was the wise choice. I guess I'm wondering do I rank up characters at slim fear of not choosing wisely. Sincerely someone who is now not using his heavily invested defensive champs in war.

    So here's the problem I have with this. I got a Nightcrawler a while back when he was amazing in war defense. I knew he was a great War defender but only took him to rank 3 because I wanted to test him in other areas of the game.

    Well I hated fighting with him so I didn't take him further in rank. Someone like you went ahead and ranked him higher anyway.

    That means if my alliance was matched against your alliance in a war, my alliance had to fight your high ranked NC but you didn't have to fight mine because I was conservative and I saved the resources. That means you had an advantage in multiple wars over more conservative players and could possibly have won wars based on that.

    Now that war is changed I have my resources because I didn't rank my now completely useless NC and you don't have your resources because you did rank yours. Why should you just get it all back?? Maybe all the people complaining about their now useless war defenders should GIVE BACK ALL YOUR WAR REWARDS FOR THE PAST 6 MONTHS! Then maybe you can have an RDT.
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,882 ★★★★
    Well the buzz coming from a YouTube channel that was at Comic-Con, War changes are coming. Guess kabam was more open about war there and they aren't happy either. If they were more open about these kind of things the community might be a little more accepting.
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 3,828 ★★★★★
    I dislike the war changes and defenders being made useless as much as all of you, it just didn't affect me because i never took a crappy champ to 4/55. I do have a 5/50 spidey for example but science t4cc aren't that precious. Because war is going to change, this isn't really an issue but lets say war was staying exactly as it is. How would you compensate for this? You obviously can't do any generic rank down tickets as that destroys AQ, so would you give individual rank down tickets for the 5 most used defenders? Or how could it be done without completely destroying the game?
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 3,828 ★★★★★
    DJSergy wrote: »
    danielmath wrote: »
    Crusher wrote: »
    danielmath wrote: »
    DaMunk wrote: »
    Well you do get people acting like there's been no devaluation...cough...grounded wisdom..cough among others. It would make sense to r4 a Mordo but say someone else has too in your bg...oh well. That sucks.
    The scoring system has been the biggest problem all along. If diversity was supposed to be a tie breaker it might be worth the risk of having multiple of the same champ. The risk reward part of defense is all screwed up. We'd be better off putting the heat on kabam rather than each other.

    Mordo has amazing prestige so he's a monster for AQ

    How he is monster for AQ..?

    He has awesome prestige, prestige = better AQ rewards

    This right here tells me you don’t see the issue as most of us. The main problem is Kabam making a change all of sudden and devaluating the champs you have spent time and resources.

    Lets say Kabam makes the decision to have AQ scores based on time attack rather than PRESTIGE. Well, guess what, all the resources people have spent ranking up champs based on prestige to stay ahead of the competition in AQ will go to waste. The Mordo you say is a monster in AQ is now usless.

    So we should just accept a change such as this? This is exactly what happened to AW and Kabam acting like nothing happeend. Seems the haven’t learend from v12 update.... Actually what happened to AW is even worst because the mode is boring now.

    I do get it, my point was that mordo has multiple uses. AQ prestige and war defense. Someone like antman went from useless in only 99.9% of the game to 100%.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,645 ★★★★★
    WOK wrote: »

    Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The game constantly changes. The choices we made a year ago are not the same as the choices we would make now. The War Schematic has changed. It's not up to the game to provide us with the means to make different decisions when something new is added. That's a perpetual argument. They can't give us Resources whenever something is introduced so we can have the best possible options for us. Things change.

    First of all I'm more upset now because its becoming clear that I was excluded from Kabams mailing list. You know, the mailing list that sent out the all inclusive MCOC handbook that you seem to confidently be referring to when you advise of "that's not how it works". To list a few, other statements you've made about what was intended, Kabams objectives, their best efforts being set forth to fix things, etc. etc...

    This is strictly from my very own experience and perspective and in no way will I suggest that others may have similar playing to present time. Because that would imply that there are valid reasons for me to side with the majority of opinions related to the game, and I would rather prefer to be non-partial and go by the book just as a handful of others continue to do here in the forums.

    For approx. 1year following my first day of playing MCOC, I seem to recall that the only " major changes" that were ever made to the game were the new event quests that were rotated as they do now.
    During the course of that year, I believed I was acclimating to the game environment quite well and was able to form ideas of what the game required of me in order to progress enthusiastically through all the different categories of content.
    Unfortunately it just recently dawned on me that those ideas were totally offbase, of which one of those ideas was that different areas of the game had a handful of champions that were the most well designed to help complete/compete in the specific contents format much more easily and efficiently than the majority of other champs available.
    Im certainly paying the price now for naively setting a trend of ranking up those handful of champs when I was "unlucky enough" to gain one of them.
    I mean come on! Who in their right mind would assume that the game would stay consistent in all areas, and that my champ roster would hold the same value and power to help me help my alliance to continue winning? Just because it was like that for a year with no hints or announcements stating otherwise?? Totally inexcusable for me to have believed in such impossible absurdities.

    Another obviously false idea was that AW was THE #1 facet of the game that granted me resources for winning what otherwise I would either never have or would have required an enormous amount of time to acquire if our alliance was a majority loser and not a winner of matched wars. Which was the #1 reason why I had done what I had done. In hindsight, not only outrageous, but absolutely ridiculous what I did.

    I'll close with this. If it was decided and implemented live tomorrow that one of my champs would be taken away for every word exceeding a 10 word limit when submitting a post in this forum, I'm relieved that now I have the right frame of mind to give credit where credit is due and would applaude and welcome those new improved changes, while imploring the rest of the community do so as well.
    And surely there will be those that would voice dissatisfaction over something like that if it were to happen, but they obviously dont realize how things are done around here. And I will try to become an advocate to help them see the light! ;-)

    You don't need to be on a Mailing List to understand that the game is designed around working for, or purchasing, Resources. The idea of swapping Resources to accomodate to all changes is counterintuitive to the overall point of the game.
    As for the status being unchanged, there has never been any guarantee of that. Rarely does anything stay the same forever in a game that constantly changes and evolves. War had been the same for close to 2 years. It was due for a change. There were a number of issues that came after the rest of the game evolved. Whether people acknowledge them or not.
    War may have been the #1 facet for some, but that doesn't make it so. That's all up to what people focus on. Things change. War changed. Which means part of that is adjusting with it. It doesn't mean they need to provide Resources for every change. It's like saying, "If you're going or change your game, then you have to make sure we stay unchanged and on top!".
  • WOKWOK Posts: 468 ★★
    WOK wrote: »


    You don't need to be on a Mailing List to understand that the game is designed around working for, or purchasing, Resources. The idea of swapping Resources to accomodate to all changes is counterintuitive to the overall point of the game.
    As for the status being unchanged, there has never been any guarantee of that. Rarely does anything stay the same forever in a game that constantly changes and evolves. War had been the same for close to 2 years. It was due for a change. There were a number of issues that came after the rest of the game evolved. Whether people acknowledge them or not.
    War may have been the #1 facet for some, but that doesn't make it so. That's all up to what people focus on. Things change. War changed. Which means part of that is adjusting with it. It doesn't mean they need to provide Resources for every change. It's like saying, "If you're going or change your game, then you have to make sure we stay unchanged and on top!".

    OIC now, thank you!
    So "the game IS designed around working for, or purchasing resources. The idea of swapping resources to accomodate to all changes is counterintuitive to the overall point of the game".
    And no way could it be considered differently by others, for example lets say some dumdum thinks that the game is designed around comepetiton and steady progression of champion rosters to eventually excell at "completing" the content(story quest, only until after 12.0 was there any hint that ACT4 and ROL was NOT going to be the games finale, and AW was the #1 group activity which we could enjoy competing in long after said finale)

    "War may have been the #1 facet for some, but that doesn't make it so".

    And of course there could be a margin for different interperetation to what the importance(the objective) of the game is.......... So long as it is made available in YOUR interpretation of it.

    BTW, never in this thread or any other have I ever advocated swapping resources to all changes. The truth of the matter is IMO alone, the definitive single reason behind a lot of the complaints and requests for RDTs and what have you is that drastic changes were made without any consideration of giving players a "period to adjust accordingly" and the arguments of many for requesting resources to be swapped is basically the result of that reason and the fact that other possible solutions(numerous good suggestions have been submitted by the community) have been seemingly ignored.

    I made my case as best as I could, and you are entitled to respond as you please. Just dont expect a rebuttal because unlike others, I choose to conclude my participation in this thread and will remove myself from further discussion here.
  • RatsoRatso Posts: 12
    I can't believe I was so stupid and ranked champs that gave my alliance the best chance at victory. I Should only rank up champs that benfit my play style. I should have only ranked up offensive champs that will eventually get nerfed. I see your wisdom now
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,424 ★★★★★
    edited October 2017
    Asking for a flag on this one, but I have a hard time taking seriously a post that claims to have exercised good judgment in deciding on which champs to rank--and yet spells the word "wisely" as "wisley" in the heading.

    Dr. Zola
  • DaMunkDaMunk Posts: 1,882 ★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    Asking for a flag on this one, but I have a hard time taking seriously a post that claims to have exercised good judgment in deciding on which champs to rank--and yet spells the word "wisely" as "wisley" in the heading.

    Dr. Zola

    They give flags for everything anymore. So I'd expect one regardless.
  • RatsoRatso Posts: 12
    Ouch! mic dropped. close this thread and let's go home
  • StavelotXoteStavelotXote Posts: 231
    I'm at the point where I don't even rank people until this gets ironed out. It's very tiresome to sit on a bunch of catalysts, while waiting to see if they will give a little ground here. Not even concerning 5* champions as I am still largely uninterested in them at this point, but something needs to give. I refuse to r5 Kamala or anyone similarly useless simply in the name of diversity. Forcing us to place this **** just to have max diversity and then lose on defender rating after going through that is even worse.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,424 ★★★★★
    edited October 2017
    lol @Ratso sorry to pick on you--I do feel your pain regarding AW rankups that aren't that useful anymore. I play the role of clean up guy in my BG, which means I look across the BG to see what crummy champs haven't been placed by the 9 other players who have already joined. Then I put my own unique crummy champs into defense. Not a lot of fun.

    Dr. Zola
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